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Should Congress Shut Down White House if Bush Defies Subpoenas?

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:23 AM
Original message
Should Congress Shut Down White House if Bush Defies Subpoenas?
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 10:27 AM by leveymg
We've heard sabre rattling from the White House about "a war of extermination" with the incoming Democratic Congress. Now, outgoing Senate Judiciary Chair Arlen Specter has added this fire bomb:

White House will defy Democrats on security: Republican
Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:25pm ET
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-12-01T093535Z_01_N30170295_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-SPYING-SPECTER.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsArt-L3-Politics+NewsNews-4

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration is unlikely to allow the incoming Democratic majority in Congress to learn details about its domestic spying program and interrogation policy, a Republican senator said on Thursday.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, who has criticized the Bush White House's secrecy about national security issues, said he would welcome detailed congressional oversight of the National Security Agency's warrantless eavesdropping.

SNIP

But he said he had "grave reservations" that Congress would end up getting the information from the administration.


Okay, the gloves are coming off. So what now?

That's fine. Congress can also cut off funding for White House operations. And, it can selectively withhold funding going to NSA and CIA private contractors involved in domestic surveillance and foreign torture, renditions, and interrogations. And, Congress can pass a law declassifying all domestic spying programs that aren't supported by FISA warrants.

The White House will deliver the files, if Congress seriously threatens to cut the purse strings. Simply put, the lights could go out at 1600 Penn Ave, if Congress was determined to do so.

I'll deal with the first proposition here. Cut the White House budget. The precise amount American taxpayers waste emptying Dimson's presidential seal embossed waste baskets is almost as closely held a secret as the budget for the CIA, because the Executive Office of the President (EOP) largely overlaps over federal agencies.

Nonetheless, salaries for the the White House staff are known to be way too high and seem to be the most vulnerable, and there are a number of offices whose annual funding Congress could take the knife too. The full roster of EOP Administrative units is as follows:

Office of the Chief of Staff (EOP, The White House Office)

Office of the Staff Secretary (EOP, The White House Office)

White House Counsel's Office (EOP, The White House Office)

Advance Office (EOP, The White House Office)

Office of Scheduling (EOP, The White House Office)

Oval Office Operations (EOP, The White House Office)

Office of Presidential Correspondence (EOP, The White House Office)

Office of Management and Administration (EOP, The White House Office)

White House Military Office (EOP, The White House Office)

Executive Residence Usher's Office (EOP, The White House Office)

Executive Clerk (EOP, The White House Office)

Office of the First Lady (EOP, The White House Office)

White House Curator (EOP, The White House Office)

The article explains it a bit further: http://www.americanpresident.org/action/administration_whitehouse/

Administration of the White House
Consulting Editor: John P. Burke, University of Vermont

SNIP

Precise estimates as to the size and budget of the EOP are difficult to come by. Many people who work on the staff are “detailed” from other federal departments and agencies, and budgetary expenses are often charged elsewhere (e.g. Defense Department for the White House Military Office). Ballpark estimates indicate some 2,000 to 2,500 persons serve in EOP staff positions with policy-making responsibilities, with a budget of $300 to $400 million (President George W. Bush's budget request for Fiscal Year 2005 was for $341 million in support of 1,850 personnel). According to Bradley H. Patterson Jr., who factors in only the most central EOP units but also includes such things as White House maintenance, official entertainment, and Secret Service protection, the numbers may even be higher: 5,915 in personnel and a budget of $730,500,000 for FY 2001.*

Although still a subunit of the EOP, the White House Office remains the centerpiece of the presidential staff system. In many ways it is closest to the President both in physical proximity (its top aides occupy most of the offices in the West Wing) and in its impact on the day-to-day operations, deliberations, policy agendas, and public communications of a presidency. During the transition to office and continuing throughout an administration, the President enjoys a great deal of discretion in terms of how the White House Office is organized. For example, Presidents must decide whether they will have a chief of staff, an office created under President Dwight D. Eisenhower but absent from the John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, and, for a time, Jimmy Carter staff systems.

Presidents are free to determine what suboffices and functions will be represented in the staff structure. Most White Houses have some set of staffs handling national security, domestic, and economic policy, but their organizations can vary significantly. Most recent White Houses have offices that deal with the cabinet, congressional affairs, political affairs, intergovernmental affairs, and liaison with the public and a variety of constituency groups. There are usually large operations devoted to the media: a press office, a communications office, other media liaison, and the speechwriting staff. There are offices handling scheduling and preparations for when the President physically leaves the White House (the Advance Office). The President also has a personal staff. As well, there is a large White House personnel office that oversees presidential appointments throughout the government.

Yet nothing is set in stone. Some units may be combined and new positions may be created, such as Karl Rove's role as "senior adviser" to President George W. Bush.


Under the Constitution, Congress holds "the power of the purse", and that's a power it could weild if push comes to shove. The White House should be mindful of that constitutional perogative given exclusively to the legislative branch next time it talks about defiance of Congressional subpoenas.

The first provision in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution provides that "the Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States."

______________________________
2006. Mark G. Levey
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. At the very least. - n/t
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. Order the Capitol police to arrest his monkey ass
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 10:31 AM by kenny blankenship
If the White House defies subpoenas, impeach Bush and Cheney, and simultaneously with the Senate trial, initiate a warcrimes trial in the International Court of Justice.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. My first thought
What would they do to me or you, if we defied a subpoena?
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. Oh they'd send Federal Marshals to bring you in
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 11:30 AM by kenny blankenship
You'd then have to testify about whatever it was they wanted ask about, but your fun's only beginning: a Judge would give you a little trip to the slammer to reflect on your misbehavior and a fine.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Oh great. The Capital police in a gunbattle with the Secret Service
on the Ellipse.


Will never come to that.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Oh great. The Capital police in a gunbattle with the Secret Service
on the Ellipse.


Will never come to that.
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itsmesgd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. If they will not follow the LAW, put them in the unemployment line.
Real simple solution. If they won't play fair throw them out of the game. Tell the World Court and The Hague where to find them. Once no longer sitting, Chimpy and his crew are fair game for criminal prosecution.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Do whatever is in our power to do to cut them off. The repukes
threatened the 'nuclear option' if dems got out of line. My feeling is that payback is a beeeotch...
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. Regardless of what the Republicans think
Bush does NOT have absolute power to hide shit.
Unless they gave it to him when nobody was looking--hidden in a bill somewhere. Of which wouldn't surprise me.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. It's not hidden--it's all there in his "signing statements"
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here come Martial Law.
We will all go to jail. Our rights taken away. The fearless leader is in a snit.
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bagrman Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. Refusing a court order, ummm go to jail do not pass go.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. Of course he will not submit to subpoenas. For
6 years he has been digging the hole deeper and deeper until it will be America's gravesite. One would think that someone somewhere would say Enough! It may have to come to the citizens storming DC and the WH. The media, the pundits, the so-called newscasters, evidently do not care what happens to this country. They have a voice. The only voices not being heard are ours. In the meantime more people are being killed, more citizens are being ripped off by the big corporations and pharmaceutical companies and we are being sunk into more debt that we will be able to handle. Oh, how much longer do we have to put up with this?
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. They dont have the..........
balls to do anything that radical. Its nice to imagine a congress that does something like this, but it will never happen.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. It can and should be done incrementally.
Newt tried to shut down the agencies in 1995, backfired badly - different
approach here. We're just talking about cutting Shrub's perks and staff.

Can be done selectively. Congress can structure the budget allocations for EOP as IT sees fit, not as the President wants.

For instance, I think most Americans would like to see AF-1 used only for real official business, not for campaign purposes. Win-win.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. nah . . . just take away his credit card . . . when he can't spend any more money . . .
he'll come around right quick . . .
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Congressional subpoenas are not enforceable against the President
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 11:06 AM by magellan
...even if he's only the pResident. Separation of powers. The same goes for others within the Executive Branch, like Cheney.

edited to add: that's the excuse they'll give for not complying with the subpoenas. Congress could shut down, but legally Bush** and Cheney are out of bounds. Of course that looks very bad on them once they're out of office, when they CAN be subpoenaed.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Subpoenas go to agency heads, not to Prez and Veep
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 11:12 AM by leveymg
Cutting Shrub's toy allowance is a perfectly legal use of Congressional power. Even the SCOTUS would have to agree. It's in the very first Article of the Constitution.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Exactly
And yes, Congress could cut the purse strings to force them to comply with subpoenas. But I'd be very surprised if they did it. The Dems are taking great pains NOT to rock the boat, and such a move would almost certainly wind up in the SC and cause as much of a public fracas as the dreaded "I"-word.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. As Justice Roberts is fond of saying, It's not a justicable issue.
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 11:41 AM by leveymg
Also, selected cuts to White House spending and staffing would be wildly popular, if Congress held public hearings about Shrub's misuse of public office. See below.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Bush** would probably try taking it to SCOTUS though
...just to raise a stink and cause a delay.

Yes, cuts would be popular. You don't need to convince me, I'm all for it. What I doubt is the Dems' will to take such action.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. It would be a challenge of "executive privilege" and would go to SC...
Let it happen!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. No. Budget allocation is Congressional perogative, alone.
Congress doesn't HAVE TO give EOP a dime.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. If Bush defied Congress and oversight function they would go to court
There is plenty of precedent from the watergate era.

SCOTUS would untimately rule that because the President has contended that the war resolutgion authorizes the executive to protect the national interest. There is no obvious or compelling reason to refuse a proper oversight function.

Secondly, there is not a vaild arfument of executuve privilege if it seeming violates the Fourth Amendment or if executive refuses to operat in the sunshine.

If Vush defies congress he will be sued... He will lose.. If he defies SCOTUS , it will create an political earthquake and GOP Senatords will not stand in the way of impeachment.


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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Defiance of subpoenas is a legal issue. But, budget is Congressional power
It's a practical power that sometimes gets raised behind the scenes. But, it is for Congress alone to decide how it wants to spend money.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. If the budget dollars are in white house accounts they would
have to find a way to freeze the monay.

They are operating under a CR right now. because the GOP left the budget for the Dems to fix nest year. CR runs out the WH has no money.

They would have to send all the noecons home
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. That's true for this year's allocations. It's also a threat against FY'08
spending, going forward.

Congress has a lot of power that we haven't seen used for a long time. Clinton generally worked with the GOP Congress, until Newt got into a snitin 1995. The Repugs tried to close down the federal agencies, but got a major black eye when the gates to Yellowstone Park were closed.

Nobody's going to complain, however, if Air Force One is grounded, except for clearly-defined public purposes. If Shrub wants to fly coach on his his own nickle to deliver speeches at GOP fundraising events, that's fine by me. There are lots of Presidential perks and staff jobs on the line, if Bush wants to play hardball.

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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. Well, when a child misbehaves, yanking his allowance is one way of modifying behavior
Particularly if the behavior was deliberate and he had been forewarned.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. Everything Congress does has to be signed off on by the President
Congress writes laws but the President signs them into law. As the Republicans found out when they declared Clinton irrelevant the President still has much leeway..
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
29. Step #1 - Ground Air Farce One - except for 100% official trips.
No use of Air Farce One for vacations. No use of Air Farce One for family junkets. No use of Air Farce One for partisan campaign events. None. Fuck his Chimperial boondoggles.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
30. There are still too many pink tutu Democrats in Congress. It will
be up to the newly elected freshman I believe to light a bonfire under the old guard forcing them to do what needs to be down to neuter the Bush administration until we can remove them from office in the next election if not before.
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