Andy's partner gives "Hacking Democracy" a thumbs down--way down

[Generic Other]

Please accept my apology for asking anyone to watch "Bev's Butt-wipe"

Well, Now I just feel stupid and used! Here I was lead to believe the existing film plus additional footage was being used from "Votergate." I was just so excited that Andy was getting national exposure, even if it did include Bev from back when he worked with her. I sent a shout out for everyone to watch it, without seeing it first. And I feel the worst for getting Mrs. Stephenson to see it, and it's so disappointing all the way around. I've been so miserable the last two days, I don't think I can stand it. These guys claimed to be "objective film journalists." Andy worked with them for months, trusted and considered them his friends, of course he gave them all kinds of permission to use him in a film and now it's "Hacking Andy!" They're nothing more than "sell-outs" to Bev. The title to Bev's film should read: "It Takes a Con Artist to Catch Con Artists!" I was warned that this was Bev's latest ego maniacal spin to just use Andy to repair her public image problems. Now it's open my mouth and stick my foot in it that I trusted them to honor Andy in any way! It's just torture for me to have seen replaced footage of Andy in FL Nov. '04, where he sitting adding votes from machine tapes they dug out of the trash: how run down and bloated he looked. I was there with him that Thanksgiving and when his sister died, and I had only remarked that he needed to slow down, eat, and sleep better. He had to have been sick then. That was less than 2 months before he actually knew he was sick. Now, after he gave so whole heartedly with devotion and worked tirelessly, he's just used and cheated again! Of course I'm speaking from the point of view of losing the one person that meant the most to me. Nothing will ever justify or answer "Why my Andy?" No film or anything else is going to bring him back for me. I'm thankful for the ones that still love and remember him. That's all he ever wanted! That's really all that is important. LOL, Ted

:thumbsdown:

[qanda]

1. I'm sorry

Am I missing something? What was he expecting to see? I'm confused.

[karlrschneider]

2. Damn, that sucks. I didn't see it for a couple of reasons

the promos for it that I saw never mentioned Andy, only that other person, and
didn't want to pay for a whole HBO package on Dish just for 1 program. So sorry it was a
disappointment...to say the least, I guess.

[Eric J in MN]

3. So he's against the movie because it makes Bev Harris look good? NT

NT

[Generic Other]

4. No because it rewrites the truth in an embarassing and shameful

fashion.

[Eric J in MN]

5. How does it rewrite? NT

NT

[Generic Other]

10. It managed to make invisible the thousands of hours of effort

DUers put into researching, promoting, uncovering the truth. Or did I miss when Ms. Harris credited her sources?

It also skipped the theft of money, the trail of deceit, the burned bodies left in Ms. Harris's wake.

Time to wake up and smell the stinking truth.

[Kelvin Mace]

42. Oh yeah, this bit on HBO

just buried the truth for decades.

It has burnished Bev's reputation and completely obscured other people's efforts.

[gully]

153. But the film was about election fraud, it was not an expose

on Bev Harris. I am certain that those who care about Andy would like justice as it pertains to BH, but my guess is that Andy's primary goal was to shed a light on voter fraud.

[fooj]

161. OMISSION of truth ...

[Blue_Roses]

76. How so?

I've seen it twice now and I also have been here at DU through ALL of this and I honestly thought Andy looked great! I was so proud to see him in action after discussing the voting issue here on DU after the election. I thought he did a great job. The premise wasn't about Andy and Bev, but the seriousness of hacking the vote. We've discussed this for so long here on DU and it was great to see it actually put out there for all to see.

I think Andy would be proud that it's finally getting some exposure.

[goclark]

6. Ted, I saw it from a different view

I was so touched when I saw Andy!


I thought he added so much dignity and class to the documentary.

I am aware of the deep hurt around DU regarding Bev.

When I watched it however, I felt the message far outweighed our feelings.

If the HBO presentation allows America to finally start having a dialog than Andy will continue to get the glory.

Flame away but that is how I see it.

[BootinUp]

9. Whats the Bev/DU story? n/t

[greatauntoftriplets]

12. Please read the linked thread.

It goes into great detail and includes a flamewar with a now-banned bevbot.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=340188

[Generic Other]

13. I was just about to post that very link

You beat me to it!

:)

[greatauntoftriplets]

16. I have posted it so many times this week that I have lost count...

;(

[Generic Other]

20. Anyone who wants the short version: here it is

Intellectual dishonesty. Lack of a clear trail where citation of sources is concerned.

A publicist who found a new way to steal other people's time and money.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. I have stayed away from DU for the last month or so

because I knew this HBO thing was going to bring the BevBots out in force. I finally took a look today and and read the archives and I was not mistaken.

[greatauntoftriplets]

49. It's good to see you.

I have been thinking of you through all of this and posting that old thread of yours linked in this thread right and left. Sigh, it seems that I am pissing in the wind.

[Kelvin Mace]

53. I know the feeling

I have just about reached the point of letting them have their messiah, they deserve her.

[greatauntoftriplets]

58. I am sure that you do.

Perhaps one day the IRS will catch up to her. There HAVE to be irregularities other than not paying Andy's witholding.

[blm]

72. Yep, ran into a few of those, myself.

Try explaining dramatic license to someone who doesn't understand how much SUBJECTIVITY was put into that film, even while it APPEARED to be just the facts. It was cold hard facts for some parts, but editorialized framing in too many others.

[Stephanie]

21. excerpt (this while Andy was very sick) - one reason why we hate her >

_________________________________________

Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-09-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #58

73. Amusing...

Is it true that you deposited over $6,000 for bookstore sales when your contractual agreement required you to turn them over to the author? Wait -- you, too, had a PayPal account. Raised thousands and thousands, saying you were going to use it for a dedicated server. Where is the server?

Is it true that Bev Harris actually deposited many of the checks intended for her "501(c)3 into her own bank account? Is it true that Bev p
Two can play that game.

_________________________________________

bailey77 (97 posts) Wed Mar-09-05 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #73

109. Nope, it's not true.

That one lie should make Andy Stephenson fear to meet his maker.

By the way, Bev Harris hasn't had a personal bank account since July 2003.


Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-09-05 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #109
_________________________________________

117. My, you know so MUCH about Bev

you think you live with her.

Did you major in Bev Harris trivia?

By the way, there is another fire you need to attend to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

So much truth to bury with lame lies.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

_________________________________________

[elehhhhna]

59. Bev, Erin Bailey & Sybil: The Three Faces of Ev(il)

Google up Borderline Personality Disorder, Bev...er, "Erin". Might save you the diagnostic costs when you finally see a shrink.

[midnight]

119. I didn't know that Andy worked Worked with Corella Devil.

[OnionPatch]

19. I won't flame you

I feel the same way. I don't know all the details....I know enough and trust DUers enough to believe that Andy was screwed by her.... but whatever happened between them is, to me, secondary to getting this issue out there in front of the public. The truth about Andy is there and will never change. He is a hero but his is a sub-story. The main issue is that our democracy is on the line and anything that takes us closer to saving it is a positive thing, IMO. I'm so glad this film is out there and I'm encouraging everyone I know to watch it.

[Kelvin Mace]

45. You can't

"tell the truth" by smearing your allies, or denying their efforts.

The "ends justify the means" is a right-wing tactic that all liberals should be ashamed to use.

[OnionPatch]

57. I'm just

a person who is concerned about this issue and is happy to see a light shined on it. I'm not advocating "the ends justfies the means". At the worst I'm uninformed....I didn't realize how detailed this whole Andy-Bev drama was. Do I have to follow that whole drama to advocate clean elections?

[Kelvin Mace]

77. No, but understand

what the facts are. A LOT of people suffered greatly thanks to Bev.

[goclark]

135. Beautifully said OnionPatch

Andy will go down in the History Books as a Patriot of enormous worth!

[lala_rawraw]

33. i saw it the same way

i missed him and it was nice to see him getting for credit for his important work. it was also good to see the issue being covered, which at the end of the day, is not about Bev or anyone else. Andy was my friend, but I think he would have wanted people talking about election tampering. just my 2 cents.

[stop the bleeding]

37. yep

now make it 3 cents O8)

[dogday]

60. Let's make it an even four....

I cried when I saw him, he did make a difference, regardless of all this other mess....

[tsuki]

122. Me, too. nt

[sunnystarr]

48. Amen (nt)

[elehhhhna]

56. goclark, I feel the same way...

Tried to watch as objectively and pragmatically as possible. Given the 1.5 hour time limit, i found it concise, comprehensive, and stunning.

BH and her BS are best left for another thread.

The horse is finally out of the barn, and there's no turning back.

This is much bigger than Showboat Bev. She will be a comma in the history of this debacle. Andy lives on in the hearts of everyone he touched.


Ted, it must have been so wrenching for you to watch--I can't even imagine. But the people who love Andy know the truth.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

68. I have to agree;

Just seeing Andy and how hard he worked to present us all with the truth. I found it inspiring. Of course I was aware of what he went through with Bev, but I don't think the film diminished him at all. On the contrary, he is now a hero to more people.

[cry baby]

7. I would tell Ted that Andy's memory here is sterling - always has been

and no film, no slight by Bev will ever change that.

We will always love Andy and wish he was here with us.

[goclark]

8. Well said Crybaby nt

[Pastiche423]

11. Ted

When I heard that bev was in this docu, I decided against wheeling down the hall to watch it w/a neighbor.

Then after hearing about it from people that watched it, I'm glad I did.

I was here at DU when bev 1st arrived. It wasn't until the summer of 2003, sadly, that I caught on to her scam.

My heart is w/you, Ted. It pisses me off more than words can say, that that lying, scamming grifter bitch got the attention she craved.

I am so sorry. :cry:

[Generic Other]

17. I believed in Andy's ability to keep Bev from destroying the movement

I didn't think she would destroy him too.

[mopinko]

14. people who don't know are grateful for the knowledge, and

exposure that was given to the problems. that is what ought to be remembered. i did not see it, not sure my stomach could stand it, BUT i have talked to several people who suspected but did not really know about these machines. they were knocked on their ass by it.
take it for what it is worth. people's eyes were opened. take the victories we can get. every bit helps.
i wish i was still a theist, so i could comfort myself with visions of bev roasting slowly in hell. and andy comfortably in heaven. i must content myself with visions of nov 8th, and people in the streets.

[greatauntoftriplets]

15. I just got in and read Ted's email.

:(

Andy did look a tad rundown when I saw him at Christmas, but he had been on the road pretty much nonstop for months, living out of a suitcase and had a right to be rundown and tired. I remember him taking a long nap on Christmas Day after lunch and before we had to get ready to go to my sister's for dinner.

Of course, I realize that he had to be sick already, but it was still a month before the symptoms started. I am sorry that he was so disappointed in the movie.

[Stephanie]

23. He was here in January - came in from Ohio

Yes, he was rundown and tired.

[Generic Other]

24. That footage was taken right after the election

and Andy did look worn out.

I don't believe Bev would have put Andy in the movie except that Andy was in the critical scenes she needed to look like she was making some great progress with the money Randi Rhodes' fans and DUers sent her after the 04 Ohio election results.

She never mentions Randi Rhodes screaming at her to get her ass to Ohio where Conyers was setting up his investigations. While Bev was squabbling over the tapes from Volusia which were supposed to reveal some big secret about the 04 election (we still don't know what), the election was lost in Ohio. Bev pocketed the money, got her qui tam money and went home waiting for the next expert or activist's coat tails so she can hitch yet another ride and claim yet another accomplishment.

[fooj]

162. Andy had (and still has) credibility. Bev does not.

IMO, that is the ONLY reason Bev used Andy in this film.

Unfortunately...many aspire to "hitch yet another ride". Andy taught me how important it was to expose these imposters by shedding light on TRUTH.

It's why I'm here. It's all about truth.

Truth is our most powerful weapon.

:patriot:

[troubleinwinter]

168. While the credits rolled,

they should have shown a screen capture of Bev's website where she publicly fired Andy (the very day she was on Randi's show denying knowing anything about firing him) accusing him of all the things SHE had done (Dec. 23, 2004).

"Bev, if you're making a movie with our money, we'll find out." (R.R.)

Bev had already lost credibility, as you can hear from Randi on that show. Andy had not. So Bev fired him. http://www.tbtmradio.com/mp3/bev_randi.mp3 It's hard to count the lies and absolute bullshit spewed by Bev during that interview.

"I never got a call from his (Olbermann's) show at all." ~ Bev Harris to Randi

Keith Olbermann, Dec. 2, 2004

"Complicating our effort is the fact that even as we hoped to provide a platform to publicize and illuminate her efforts, Ms. Harris had returned none of the messages left on her own voicemail by Countdown staffers since she spoke to our staffers briefly, twice, during the week of November 8. Only today did she even get back in touch with us, and was so belligerent, threatening, and demanding, that we have chosen to withdraw our invitation to her to appear, or to have videotape of her efforts played, on Countdown."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008/

Keith Olbermann, Dec. 1, 2004

I don’t think Bev Harris of Black Box Voting is doing anybody any favors.
......

Each and every day since our coverage of all this began on November 8, I have received a set of emails, some times a few, some times many, asking “Why don’t you have Bev Harris on Countdown?,” “Why don’t you run the Bev Harris videotapes?,” “Why don’t you show the voting tapes Bev Harris found discarded in the trash in Florida?”

Because she won’t let us.

I have not dealt with Ms. Harris directly, but my staff has, and though we have asked her on a regular basis to let us show these tapes on national television, she has declined.
........

The usefulness of that videotape to the immediate issue at hand - were there widespread failures of the electronic voting systems in this country on November 2nd, and if so, were those failures enabled by any malfeasance - has an expiration date. If they show irregularities, if they show public servants at their worst, even if they’re guerrilla-style political confrontations, they have a public value - an urgent one.
.....

What Ms. Harris has left herself open to is a charge that as much as any interest she has in the justifiable public concern over our most precious right - the right to a reliable, honest election - she may also have an interest in making her own documentary, on her own schedule, for her own purposes."
........

I don’t know her motivations and I don’t know her bona fides. But I’m afraid at this stage, intentionally or by the simplest of communication failures, she isn’t helping illuminate this issue. And every step that attracts heat but not light is another step towards discrediting the entire process.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008/

[fooj]

170. What an amazing prediction.

What Ms. Harris has left herself open to is a charge that as much as any interest she has in the justifiable public concern over our most precious right - the right to a reliable, honest election - she may also have an interest in making her own documentary, on her own schedule, for her own purposes.

Her own purposes, indeed.

Once again, KO is (and was) SPOT ON!

Randi certainly called it, as well. Go figure...:think:

[InsultComicDog]

18. I hear ya

but on the positive side, at least some people are starting to pay more serious attention to the issue that Andy worked so hard on.

[Kelvin Mace]

50. The only problem is

Bev will use this hosanna to her reputation to continue to crush those who oppose her, and I sure as Hell don't mean Diebold.

[jarnocan]

22. nice to meet you anyway TAKE CARE! nt

[stepnw1f]

25. Is This Really Constructive or Necessary? (nt)

[Generic Other]

30. I think Ted has a right to express his opinion of the documentary

It caused a lot of pain for a lot of people. Did you attend Andy's funeral? Did Bev?

[stepnw1f]

35. Nobody is Challenging His "right to express his opinion"

If Ted didn't have that right, I wouldn't have responded.

[robinlynne]

26. I'm very sorry ted. but I want you to know that volunteers are calling here

to become poll monitors because they saw the film on HBO!
The overall effect from the perspective of an election protection person trying to get the public to wake up, is that the film, because it was on HBO, rallied people to action. That part, at least, should make you adn everyone here on DU very proud.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

27. I wish people would stop making that the story

The story is THEY ARE STEALING THE FUCKING ELECTIONS!!! I really don't give a crap who's uncovering it and what their backstory is. Save it for the DVD.

The only issue I had was the film spent to much time trying to be a movie instead of a documentary. I don't need all the artsy shit setting the mood and all.....just the facts please. This is too serious an issue to try and be going for an Academy Award.

I haven't seen it, but the CNN special that aired last night hosted by Lou Dobbs was apparently very good with a lot of just the facts, ma'am. Hopefully they re-run it over the weekend.

[earth mom]

38. But how can you believe the woman-Bev-when she's unethical to begin with?

I came to DU at the tail end of all of it, but I had looked at the BBV website before I got here from a link at another site I was on. The first thing I noticed on the site was the GIANT donate sign! My gut told me "scam" even though at that point I knew nothing about Bev or BBV!

When I later came to DU and found out the truth about her and how she sullied and ripped off the cause and Andy's good name I was disgusted and distrustful of ALL of it. How can anyone trust her or what she's "supposedly" done for the cause at all, ever, after what she's done?!

Hell yeah, it's an important issue. Too bad that Bev didn't care enough about it to make sure it was handled ethically and that the people helping her were given the respect they were due. :(

[Kelvin Mace]

51. Always the same thing

from people who have not suffered from Bev's lies, deceits and smears.

We should just shut the fuck up and let her destroy our reputations so they can be happy about her efforts.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

94. She's a piece of shit, I get it.....

Meanwhile, THEY ARE STILL STEALING THE FUCKING ELECTIONS!!!!!

There will be plenty of time to figure out who gets the credit for exposing the shit AFTER our free and open elections are restored!

[troubleinwinter]

109. You do not know how MUCH Kelvin Mace has done toward

election integrity for YEARS. You have no clue how MUCH he has given of himself to the cause. And you have no idea how Bev has fucked him (a very dedicated and knowledgeable activist) over, along with others.

I don't think this is a person you can lecture about restoring elections. You might want to give him a grand 'THANK YOU' for his dedication, activism and sticking through it for us, despite Bev's insane attacks on him.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

111. I'm not a goddamn newbie......

I know who he is and what he's done, bless him.........

Does this mean the documentary is totally irrelevant now and not worth shit? If so, too bad, because I was hoping it might have opened a few eyes. Guess not....nothing to see here....move along then.

[Kelvin Mace]

131. Will it open eyes?

Yes.

But it also does so while burnishing Bev's reputation. As a result MANY people will believe she is "trustworthy" when she isn't.


This means Bev will have a fresh batch of victims to fleece, and we will eventually suffer because of it.

[Kelvin Mace]

128. It has little to do with credit

and everything to do with having your reputation destroyed.

Whether you understand it or not, we are not just standing around with a finger up our ass. We are doing everything in our power to safeguard the elections, but it is rather hard to manage when we have Bev bad-mouthing Rush Holt and HR-550 because it would take the limelight of her if it passed.

[fooj]

163. Who do you think may be assisting them

in STEALING THE FUCKING ELECTIONS? I don't think this is about giving anyone credit/no credit. It's about accuracy and truth...two vital ingredients needed to restore the democratic process.

[EFerrari]

116. You know, some people are capable of holding more than 1 thought

at a time.

If you don't like this story, what are you doing on this thread?

And for the record, you have a lot of effen gall to criticize Ted who was the most generous person in the world with his partner when Andy was away for MONTHS working election reform.

If you don't like that story, change the channel.

[The Count]

28. My reaction when I saw that name mentioned in the review.

Got HBO. I prefer fiction that labels itself as such.
Bev muddied the Florida theft of 2004.
Posted on the much vaunted thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2925086#2925552

[ninkasi]

29. Please believe that we will always, always love Andy

There is no way that any DUer who was here during the time Andy was here could ever think of him with anything but love, respect, and a deep sense of gratitude. He is one of those people I never got a chance to meet, but who awed me with his tireless dedication to bring about honesty in voting, and preserving democracy in this country. There is nobody I admire more.

I know you will always mourn Andy, and your loss is deeply painful, but you can rest assured that Andy will never be forgotten. I've seen thread after thread where people use Andy as an inspiration to keep up the good fight. We will always love Andy, and always consider him a hero of honesty, and a tireless dedication to truth.

[SmokingJacket]

31. What she said.

Nice post. :thumbsup:

[Trajan]

32. I am NOT going to participate in a witchhunt ...

As ugly as the Bev thing got, she is still on the right side of the fight ....

Get these egos OUT of here, and fight for the cause ....

[greatauntoftriplets]

41. Neither Ted nor the OP are suggesting any witch hunts.

Only saying that credit should be given where credit is due.

[Generic Other]

43. What egos are you referring to?

I simply felt that we at DU had a right to hear Ted's take on this film.

And since you think it's only about egos, all the DU activists who did the work should now return to being invisible?

By the way, I take no credit for any part of the work done by DU activists. I simply happened to have witnessed the true story unfold here on DU.

on edit: typos.

[Trajan]

61. I was here as well ....

Though I offered nothing more than ideas and insights ....

Nevertheless .... the potential for fraud is the issue, NOT by whom it is uncovered and rectified, but THAT it is uncovered and rectified ....

Hatred of Bev Harris is the province of others : I still appreciate the work SHE had done ... She has worked hard; as hard as anyone else .... She was certainly a focus of information in the early days, but not the sole focus ... I think everyone recognizes she didnt do this all herself .... But she certainly has done much to further this cause in the public eye ..... Give her credit for getting this out there like she has ....

It is sad to see how personal animosities interfered so viciously into something so important to all of us .... I stood on the sidelines and watched, frustrated, as egos were brandished like rapiers, and ugly innuendoes and insinuations sunk the collective effort to reveal the workings of the Electronic Voting cabal .... I am not the only one who found these personal attacks completely beside the point, and counterproductive to OUR collective cause .....

I adore each and every one of you who contributed to these revelations .... But I surely wish the sniping would stop .... for our sake ....

[demobabe]

67. Go read up about James Hatfield and "Fortunate Son"

Karl Rove actually gave Hatfield information about Bush's cocaine use, and then when he published the book, exposed Hatfield's criminal background and buried the cocaine use as fiction from an unreliable source.

Bev is an unreliable source based on her history.

Didja ever think that Rove could expose Harris any time he wanted to and potentially disavow all the problems with electronic voting as conspiracy from an unreliable source?

It's not about hatred of Bev or sniping.

It's about having someone represent us who is a walking target and could destroy ALL the work EVERYBODY has done. What is more counterproductive than THAT?

[Trajan]

70. These representations are simply untrue ...

Bush's cocaine use, and the reporting of it, WERE affected by Rov'e tactics : But they are not forgotten .... They will continue to crop up in the future ....

The problems with EV is bigger than Bev ...... they are bigger than Rove ....

SURELY one can do better than imply fear of a rovian plot as a cause to disavow the work of one activist ....

Bev is not a movement, and is only one player in this issue ..... But here you are, arguing against Bev, when you should be arguing against EV .....

Who is committing a misdirection ? ...

[demobabe]

74. Uh, they just exposed a guy doing ICE in the White House

Do you really think anybody cares about Bush's cocaine use now?

There are so many things way worse with Bush that cocaine doesn't even show up on the map anymore.

But James Hatfield is dead now.

And the book he wrote that might have kept Bush from being able to run for President was sent to be mulched by the publisher, later to be published by a small independent print house - long after it could have much of any real effect.

However, electronic voting is still a fairly new issue for a lot of the public.

All it takes is some good spin to destroy an issue or render it immaterial. And that can easily happen.

And it can be followed up simply in the courts after the elections and after fraud has occurred... The courts being mostly Republican owned and will do everything to back the outcomes they favor.

There are many people in the movement that aren't tarnished like Bev and didn't sell Clinton Monica cigars (ick) and are working hard to find solutions and promote awareness. We're better off without Bev, and I can't understand why you're trying to defend an indefensible person, who could possibly end up in trouble for fraud.

[Kelvin Mace]

52. Easy for you to say

It wasn't your reputation she was impugning. If it was, you would sing a differnt tune.

[AntiFascist]

107. I agree, this argument can only benefit the other side...

why isn't this level of hatred directed toward the (anti-gay, religious right) people who worked so hard to deny Andy his much needed operation which could have saved his life? I don't get it. Keep in mind that anyone who wants to share the spotlight could also become subject to this kind of treatment.

[EFerrari]

118. Because that grifter also did her bit to suppress

the fundraising. And because it was her fault he had no insurance in the first fucking place.

And, did you catch her at FreakRepublic trying to get into their wallets and telling them Andy was just being a drama queen?

It would be pretty hard for "anyone wanting to share the spotlight" to sink to that level of sociopathy, don't ya think?

[AntiFascist]

125. If she had anything to do with the slime at Freeperville....

who were working to prevent him from raising funds for his operation, then she should be watched closely because she might indeed be capable of anything, including working for that other side. But stirring up conflict doesn't help either, especially when BBV has captured the spotlight in the e-voting debate. Its important not to give too much power to any single entity in this fight.

[EFerrari]

133. There's no 'if" about it. She did it. And that isn't the only place

she worked to suppres the fundraising for Andy's surgery. She also went to other bloggers and tried to force them to chose between Andy and her gracious self. I know of at least one case where she succeeded.


There is a world of difference between stirring up conflict and dealiing with the real experience that many people on this board had, and are still dealing with, in a realistic and thoughtful way. Dealing with it in fact does help us stay together and stay focused.

[AntiFascist]

160. I think there are deeper forces acting against the vote fraud exposure movement...

and I think Bev and some of her people may have gotten caught up in it at one point, or perhaps somehow became compromised, I can't say for sure. Bev Harris, being the paranoid and dramatic personality that she is may want it to be all about her, but it's not. We have to keep in mind the nature of the real enemy that we are fighting and sometimes the tendrils of this beast will be felt in places that are close to home.

[EFerrari]

117. There's no need to hunt. And when is that grifter on the right side of

this fight? When she's ripping off DUers? When she's trashing other activists? When she's ripping them off, too? When she's alienating the media?

Get this ignorance out of the way so we can be effective.

[tavalon]

147. She's on the right side of the fight

because that's where she found people she could use and fleece. She is a dangerous parasite and the movement in the end may well be somewhat held back because she is so untrustworthy and just plain sneaky. The movement could be painted with the same brush. Diebold would certainly be happy if the movement were discredited.

[EFerrari]

149. Can you imagine how much further ahead we'd be if

someone SANE had been contacted by Olbermann all those months ago?

Well, every movement has its opportunists, parasites and wackos. The word on her is on the street where it belongs.

[Swamp Rat]

34. I miss Andy

:cry:

[mmonk]

36. I posted my "regardless of Bev" post in an earlier thread.

Do I harbor negative feelings? Yes. Enough to throw the film under the bus? No. I taped it, shared it with my family and it affected them profoundly (though I had already talked to them about the machines). The effect it had on them made me realize everything was ok. Remember, the public needs to know about them and that trumps any emotion I may have.

[helderheid]

47. You said exactly how I feel. Shot went down that didn't get in the film

but that would have only shot our movement in the foot. I truly believe Andy is satisfied knowing that his work was not in vain and though it doesn't give credit where credit is due, it pushes our movement WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead.

[Hissyspit]

39. I was a bit perplexed when my "This film is about Bev???" threads wouldn't even

get to the Greatest Page, and yet a Bev Appreciation thread got 10 votes or so. Even here at DU we can easily forget.

Someone in one of my threads used a scatological analogy to point out that the documentary was automatically tainted and questionable with so much Bev content.

Full Disclosure: I have not seen the film.

[AtomicKitten]

40. The film effectively got across the message about EVM fraud.

I would hope people could allow that to trump the bad blood for a good cause.

[troubleinwinter]

46. "he gave so whole heartedly with devotion and worked tirelessly"

THAT is so true. And only part of it...

He was a TEACHER and educator. He taught so many on DU, always patiently explaining the issue. And teaching groups across the country.

He was a FRIEND to so many who did have the chance to meet him in person, and those who 'only knew' him online. MORE, he created strong and lasting personal, close friendships between people that became pals through and because of Andy.

Andy brought us laughter and love and joy and knlowlege, along with learning the ability to see through a con-artist-wolf wearing sheep's clothing.

A great many have now seen clear through BevGollum...



....she may have used Andy once again in the movie, she'll only get a few more donated dollars and temporay publicity to feed her ego, but we will continue exposing BevGollum.

The truth will stand on its own in the end.

"the ones that still love and remember him" are innumerable here on DU and elsewhere, and carry on the work that he taught us and the genuine friendships he brought us.

He is deep in the heart of so many. That genuine love and friendship cannot ever be forgotten or lost.

[suston96]

55. Shake hands with the devil...

A little utilitarian conceptualizing.... That means, set aside, set aside NOT forget, what happened in the past.

The close elections on Tuesday will be won by Diebold and the machines. We have to start, organize, join together and KILL THE MACHINES! Our goal should be about taking back our elections and never, never losing control of them again.

I don't know what that will involve, but I know that your dear friend, Andy, would want you to put aside differences and join together in decontaminating the corrupted election process. Honor his memory best by continuing what he did so well.

This may be our last chance. The fight doesn't end on Tuesday. It only begins.........

[troubleinwinter]

63. "We have to START"????

Where the hell have you been? I can't tell, as you have no profile and I see no posts on this subject from you.

"set aside" what Bev has done to smear and attack as many hard working activists as she could with her lies and bullshit accusations? NOPE.

"put aside" her sucking donations from hard-working people who think their money will go to "fight for the cause", but instead may be wasted on huge IRS fines and fees because of her mismanagement? Nearly a million bucks illegally solicited according to WA law? Will those donations, instead of working toward the cause, be spent on defense attorneys for her and each and every Board Member facing potential jail time? With close to a million bucks in donated funds, why didn't she deposit payroll taxes withheld from employee's own paychecks so that he could not file for a refund of his own money? "put aside" that she solicited donations with the promise of posting FOIA results, though three of 3,000 counties had been posted after a year and a half, and refused to account for any compliance whatever? NOPE.

Why don't you go over and give Bev your trite lectures. Why not tell HER to work for the good of the cause, rather than sucking up as many dollars as possible while trashing others who have busted their butts on their own dimes and dollars about the issue?

Do not tell me "I know that your dear friend, Andy, would want you to put aside differences". I have not speculated what Andy would want, and you certainly don't "know". I only know that Andy worked to ferret out corruption and lies and stood for truth. I never heard him say to "put aside" knowlege of a fox in our henhouse.

Maybe you overlooked this detail:

"the ones that still love and remember him" are innumerable here on DU and elsewhere, and carry on the work that he taught us

[greatauntoftriplets]

65. .......

:yourock:

[suston96]

92. Where have I been?

I will tell you where I won't go - and that is where the focus of voting rights is lost because of internecine crap like this that does no one any good.

I have joined both the Transparency Project and the BlackBox Voting project and will join any other project where the action is that leads to paper ballots and manual ballot counting and tabulating, and a complete removal of all hackable machines that intimidate voters and cause them to stay away from elections.

You will get little or nothing accomplished while you waste time reminiscing about bitterness over things that happened long ago and about which you can do nothing now. I am not interested in your hate Bev Harris histrionics. I am interested in right now and the huge job we have after Tuesday. Because whether we win or not, the problem with stolen and corrupted elections will still be there.

I have spent almost 20 years as a voting rights activist and I am proud of my accomplishments, and I know my way around the battlefield. I am saddened by people who have lost sight of the real enemy and who insist on wasting so much time quarreling among themselves.

I have had DU on my bookmarks for as long as it has been around. I am involved in another board, not under the same name, and have been trashing right wing nuts there for 10 years. I communicated with Andy a few times here about election day precinct patrols back in 2004, I think, but I didn't know he was ill and that is why he didn't respond.

Democrats fighting Democrats? H'mmm. Maybe Bill Maher is right.

[troubleinwinter]

104. You know

nothing about the work done toward election integrity by persons in this thread. Do you?

If this thread disturbs you, there are many threads related to the very isses you describe. I suggest you may enjoy participating in them.

We are discussing Andy, Bev and the way the movie turned out.

We are able to point out a revolting steaming turd in the middle of the carpet and yet continue our work as well. Sorta like walking and chewing gum... we got the smarts for it.

[suston96]

114. If whatever you have done......

........ has resulted in meaningful election corruption decontamination, which is what I am interested in, then thank you for your efforts.

I came here to see why there is such negative reaction to what is being hailed universally as an incredibly effective expose of Diebold - a topic which I have been aggressively pursuing for a number of years on another board. My board name there is Anton53. Check my profile there and check the number of my posts. 50% of what I link to and cite over there, comes from DU ! http://p201.ezboard.com/ftimezone39828frm1

I was hoping to see some enthusiasm for the HBO movie and it looks like I stumbled on some sad remembrances which are understandable, but which have clouded the effectiveness of HBO's most laudable efforts to expose the Diebold outrages.

I note that there are others posting on this thread who feel as I do.

[troubleinwinter]

115. Some have "enthusiasm" about the movie, some do not.

I doubt that anything here has "clouded the effectiveness" of it.

If you really think so, maybe look at the actual cause. Or don't.

[Kelvin Mace]

132. In NC, we drove Diebold out of the state

and passed the toughest anti-BBV law in the nation.

It is easy to excuse Bev's behaviour for "the greater good" when you haven't been one of her victims.

Some points to remember about Bev:

1) She has been caught in multiple lies.
2) She has posted a false IRS 990 form
3) She has ties to Freepers and brags about Bush being a fan of her work
4) She slandered, libeled and mocked a dying man
5) She has re-written her own book to maximize her own role while minimizing or eliminating the contribution of others.
6) She has libeled on this forum just about EVERY anti-BBV expert from Avi Rubin to Doug Jones, to Rebecca Mercuri
7) She ratted out her chief source on Diebold in California and the guy is now facing prison.
8) She has profited handsomely from this issue and stolen other people's work and profited on it.
9) She accused numerous activists of betraying the movement for profit, when only she had done so.
10) She has never donated the proceeds from her lawsuit to he foundation as she claimed she would.

If you want to align yourself with such a person, you are certainly welcome to do so.

[suston96]

137. Shake hands with the devil...

Yeah, shake hands with the devil - that was the title of my first post here. Do you know what that means?

About my background - There are no Term Limits in Massachusetts. Know why? Because back in the early 1990s I started activating against this insidious assault on our voting rights. Republican money poured into the state to get a state constitutional amendment to remove Democrats from their grip on the legislature.

I became known for my incessant lobbying of state legislators to fight this outrage. I went to public hearings and testified often in state legislature committees. Republican legislators hated the sight of me. I had allies: the League of Women Voters. Many others. One day, at one of those hearings, a young man smiled at me after I had testified and showed me a copy of our state Constitution. He said, see here? It says that all elections in Massachusetts must be free. I had never seen a copy of the state Constitution. He told me where to get one.

We became friends and allies. Who was he? He was the Chair for the New England chapter of the John Birch Society. The John Birch Society along with the League of Women Voters and many others, including mine - we called ourselves the Greenleaf Society, after John Greeleaf Whittier who wrote the poem - The Poor Voter - we fought together for the next 5 or 6 years, against millions of dollars in Republican money to get a state constitutional amendment passed limiting state officers and legislators' terms.

The Democrat state legislature refused to approve the ballot initiative. It died. So they tried a new tack. They introduced legislation - a state statute that limited congressional and legislature terms. In spite of our courageous and underfunded efforts, that ballot initiative was passed by the people in the 1994 elections. Remember them? 1994? The biggest anti-incumbent election in the nation's history.

Only one thing wrong - the legislation was unconstitutional. It violated both state and federal constitutions. We - our consortium, including the Women Voters and the John Birchers, we filed suit and went all the way to our state supreme court, as companion cases in other states pursued similarly unconstitutional laws all the way to the USSC. They were thrown out by both courts.

Statutes passed by states cannot fix terms of officers and legislators defined in state and federal constitutions.

Shake hands with the devil? Yep. Google John Birch Society. Birchers? They are looked down on by many. But not by me. Know why? They helped me kill Term Limits in Massachusetts.

I am 75 years old. I will unretire and fight until I have no more strength, to assure the decontamination of the corrupted election process in this country. That means securing a standardized paper ballot, with manual elections, manual tabulations, and live audits performed on live camera. And much more.

I know I have allies. And if the devil comes from hell and offers to help? I will welcome him and shake his hand.

[troubleinwinter]

142. Working with political opponents towards a common goal is one thing.

To overlook, excuse and turn a blind eye to a caustic poisonous snake who lies and works to smear and destroy those who work toward our goal is quite another.

[Kelvin Mace]

143. So, you will work with the devil

and smile while the devil cuts your throat?

She is helping our cause the way the Vichy government helped France.

You don't seem to understand Ms. Dudley (aka Harris).

It is her show. She calls the shots. Anyone who interferes with he harvesting of new victims will be attacked. She is not in this to save our democracy, she is in it to fleece as much cash as she can out of people and to feed her own ravenous ego.

She is now attacking anyone who proposes supporting HR-550, the one law that would drastically alter the landscape in our favor. Why, because once the bill passed, her day in the sun would be over and her cash flow would dry up.

The devil is an upstanding citizen by comparison.

[Kelvin Mace]

144. And yes, I have "worked with Devil" on this

I worked with the GOP members daily on the committee I served on. We had the same goal, fair and honest elections. We directed our hostility toward crooked voting machine companies.

The NC Public Confidence in Election Act passed both houses of the General Assembly UNANIMOUSLY, a practically unheard of occurence in our state on a law of importance such as this.

[fooj]

165. Yikes.

And if the devil comes from hell and offers to help? I will welcome him and shake his hand.

Yet another "VALUES" voter...

[tavalon]

151. She will fleece a whole new batch of people

That doesn't bother you?

This is not Democrats fighting Democrats. This is true election fraud activists against a dangerous, opportunistic interloper who is an activist for her own cause only.

That the documentary happens to help elucidate the problem of machine based election fraud is a happy side effect, one that Bev Harris does not care one whit about.

[Kelvin Mace]

129. Hard as it my be for some folks to grasp

We don't need Bev Harris to fight this war. In fact, we would appreciate it if she would stay the hell out of our way so we can get ou job done.

Embracing a liar and cheat is not how you fight lying and cheating.

[fooj]

164. And they call us the obstructionists...

Give me a break.

[yellowdogmi]

54. I have just spent the morning downloading it.

While it was downloading I looked at this thread and many of the links in it. Since I am a relative newbie here I was unaware of the contentious battle that took place. I think that it is a shame that such a divisive battle could alter DU from what it once was. In the year I have been here I have participated in organized resistance. From writing to members of congress, Duing polls, and submitting LTTE's. The support and encouragement from other members here has helped me cope with depression over this hideous administration. I was absolutely unaware of what came before that. It seems like there were quite probably abuses by some here of the generosity(both time and money) of our members. It was very enlightening to look back through those threads and recognize names I have interacted with since. I can't really tell if the rift has fully healed or not. I downloaded this movie because I have heard so much about Andy since I got here that I wanted to see him in action. I guess in closing I am hopeful because of DU. I am hopeful because there are others out there that get it. Ted, I am sorry if this video is painful to you but I need to see it to see for myself Andy's Legacy.

[helderheid]

64. I downloaded it too - only get audio :(

[LaPera]

62. Is HBO to blame? Was it a piece on non-factual shit? Bastards!

[symbolman]

66. First of all for those that don't know or haven't heard

Here's Randi Rhodes tearing Harris a New HOLE for NOT being in OHIO, NOT answering calls from Olbermann and her (Olbermann wanted footage and to promote the cause, Harris was Involved in MAKING A MOVIE starring in it and would NOT release MUCH that could have helped), for FIRING ANDY and then acting like she didn't KNOW about it while it was posted on HER SITE, and in the end during the music you hear Randi saying, "If you are making a Movie with that money.." Listen for it.

http://www.tbtmradio.com/mp3/bev_randi.mp3

And THAT is why she wouldn't SHARE any info with ANYONE, until the film came out, because she wants to be a STAR, THEN blames KERRY while SHE was withholding info FROM HIM, yeah, make a lot of sense to blame him while you hold back info for your film.

SHE gave NO credit to ANYONE if you notice, even going so far as to make the claim that SHE PERSONALLY filed 3000 FOIA HERSELF in the film, all night long, poor baby.. bullshit.

That BOOK was WRITTEN by the DU, she just assembled it. David was not mentioned and he PUBLISHED that book. HE'S been working tirelessly on this issue as have so many others WHO HAVE CREDIBILITY.

I posted when I first heard of a thread that mentioned Andy as the "star" of this film, nothing could be further from the truth. I believe he was USED by these people, and I said so, just like BUSH standing on the bodies of the dead at 911 hawking his wares, braying like a donkey, INSULTING the DEAD.

You cannot reveal FRAUD if you are so far up your own ass that you withhold any TRUTH, you can't reveal Corruption if YOU are CORRUPT.

I personally got ILL watching this self serving piece of shit, cloying, simpering, PRETENDING that she KNEW THINGS. She didn't even know HER OWN ROUTER NUMBER and called it an attack, THAT is how much SHE KNOWS.

SO many people were left burned beyond recognition by this film, and Andy in my opinion was used as a PROP by these people, and it DISGUSTS ME, I had said this would happen and it DID.

I feel SO SORRY for Ted and Andy's family that their loved one was DISGRACEFULLY USED by these people, and I agree with Ted Completely. I thought once this had settled out that people might see this and IT'S THE WAY IT IS.

I hope that Harris ends up in jail for Fraud, and the way the universe seems to be working now it just might happen. Then she can watch herself over and over and enjoy how she was able to pull the wool over people's eyes while ACTING as if she was enlightening people.

Rove must be smiling now, he's got the movement right where he wants it, with a NUTJOB as a THE SELF APPOINTED LEADER, someone who's legs he can cut off any time he wants with a few phone calls.

[Generic Other]

71. Yes, and you backed off because I posted Ted's endorsement

of the film and its directors.

But you were right to be skeptical of anything that had Bev's clawprints on it. I also backed off on commenting on this documentary until today. Other than to try and credit those who deserved some mention.

Bev's pattern of behavior is clear. When she starts her next fundraiser, I sure hope it isn't on DU.

Thanks for setting the record straight. The truth hurts, but it is our best armor.

[symbolman]

90. And I want to thank YOU

for being the voice of reason and giving those their DUE who DO fight this fight and have for years..

You're a True Patriot and most appreciated.

We're going to need people like when the Humans Take Over :)

[KittyWampus]

69. It's about the issue of Hacking Democracy not about Andy. Make a documentary

about Andy and DU'ers and others who worked and WORK so hard now. Or do an expose about Bev.

There's room for all of the above and I'm sorry that Andy wasn't fully appreciated in the HBO film or that Bev wasn't shown in a truer light.

Edit- I think, in the end, you might consider the fact you know more than a lot of others... and it's not necessarily the best tack to throw ALL the info out in one program.

[symbolman]

73. Okay, one example

When they mentioned the LAWSUIT where a few Million BUCKS were Awarded, WHY was there NO MENTION of HARRIS and her Gun Slinging freeper pal walking away with a FAT WALLET?

Wouldn't they want to say SHE got money for "the cause"?

NO. They KEPT YOU FROM KNOWING THAT, and THAT is the kind of editing I expected, either you are TELLING the story in a Documentary or you are making PROPAGANDA tilted in one's favor. The "Bev is GOD" meme was apparent, her CLAY FEET were not revealed.

I think THAT one scene was Irresponsible alone.

Filling out 3000 FOIA's ALONE ALL NIGHT or for 45 hours ALL BY HERSELF? BULLSHIT. Completely Unbelieveable.. this woman claimed to Troubleinwinter that SHE couldn't handle setting up a SCANNER by herself.

This IS about Corruption, and those who are CORRUPT cannot expose CORRUPTION without cleaning up their own act need to be kicked to the curb, not emulated, not worshipped, not given a PASS for subject matter.

Atilla the Hun could have been very nice to his children, but when he left a village there was a pyramid of SKULLS to let folks know he was there.

But he was GOOD to his kids.

[helderheid]

75. That is a battle for another day - lets get people first focused on our broken elections

[symbolman]

78. I'm sorry but what WENT BEFORE MATTERS

Just because you can bullshit someone and get yourself on HBO doesn't give you CREDIBILITY.

She will be EXPOSED by the right wing and this will help to DESTROY the movement, others who HAVE credibility will go down, lose years of work.

It's irresponsible to let that happen.

Do YOU support BEV HARRIS? Is that what you're saying? Because WE will be watching when she is gutted by the media ala Karl Rove.

Will You support her THEN?

I wonder what Keith Olbermann is going to say about this. That Harris is a Nutjob, not to be taken seriously?

This is a serious problem, I'm sorry, sticking our heads in the sand will not work.

Bush started a bullshit war based on LYING. Do we give him a pass and just say, "Oh, let's just concentrate on fixing THIS NOW."?

And you better believe THAT will be the message when we take back the Congress.

[helderheid]

79. I agree with you but as I've said, this is a battle for ANOTHER day -

this battle will only hurt our movement now. We have a golden opportunity to wake America UP to the problems with the machines.

Bev Harris is no friend of mine. She knows it. I made it clear to her.

[demobabe]

81. But that brings up another issue with this documentary

"We have a golden opportunity to wake America UP to the problems with the machines."

Okay, then what?

Machines are broken. Don't vote.

The doc didn't give any ideas for what to do next, just that your vote is going to be hacked. I really wish they would have had ANY recommendation for action and a message to vote anyway, so voters aren't discouraged.

Who is going to be moved by this documentary? Primarily Democratic voters. If the machines favor Republicans, they'll still come out and vote because they know they'll win. If a Democrat thinks the process is hopeless, then why should they vote?

In the end, this film is propaganda for the Republican party.

[helderheid]

82. Do you honestly think that the point is not to vote rather than get rid of the machines?

[demobabe]

83. If you think your vote isn't going to count...

...are you going to vote?

[helderheid]

91. I voted and know many here who did and will and will continue to work

for clean elections - I am thrilled about this documentary.

[demobabe]

96. That is you - you are very concerned about issues.

Not everyone is as passionate about this issue or politics in general, and those are the folks I worry about. I KNOW you're going to vote, but how many Americans are going to see this documentary and say, "Well, those machines are broken, I'm not going to bother voting this year because it's hopeless and my vote isn't going to count."

Now YOU go and change their minds. You have 2 1/2 days.

I'm not saying any of this to be combative. I appreciate you being so passionate and working for the cause. We need a million more people like you. I already have spent about $70k on this cause total, and I want to see fair elections as much as you do. I'm on your side.

[symbolman]

97. I really DO WISH I could be Thrilled about this

Honestly I do, we worked on this subject for over a Year, my pregant wife sleeping in cars, interviewing SO MANY PEOPLE and learning so much..

But with Harris all I can feel it that someone dumped a Turd in my stew. :)

(As an aside here, Don't you think we might want to give Michael J. Fox the FLOWER treatment? He's REALLY being instrumental in getting out the vote, and frankly I feel for the guy, he should be thanked, whaddya say?)

[symbolman]

85. That is another thing that bothered me

NO Empowerment provided in this film. Nothing, NADA, Zilch.

Where was the GO TO "People for the American Way" or whatever? Nothing.

Where was the action alert to go with this? Something is not right here, there's a funky smell to this.

ISN'T THIS a Golden Opportunity to Get out the VOTE?

I agree with demobabe, something fishy here.

I WAS worried that this might DEMORALIZE people once it was over, hell, *I* didn't feel like voting after watching this.. what's the point, the FIX is IN..

But I didn't want to say that, and potentially do further damage in that regard.

Take a CAMERA WHEN you VOTE. Let's get it ON. :)

[Lars39]

130. All the personalities aside,

I came away thinking it would help suppress the urge to vote. Better late than never in getting the information more mainstream, but how much sooner could this same documentary have been put out for the public? Months ago would have made a much bigger difference. Right now and I'm thinking vote suppression. :(

[troubleinwinter]

84. BS

I will not be told that I am 'hurting the movement' by telling truth of BEV'S misdeeds.

WTF?! I should shut up 'for the good of the movement' about the harm, attacks, lies SHE has done?

NO SIRREE. I will not cover her crimes. We need to clean our own house or the rats will chew our ankles and shit in our beds.

[troubleinwinter]

80. Part of the matter of this thread is

"Bev's Butt-wipe". It is an issue.

Certainly we work on elections, but not to the exclusion of all other discussion.

[Lurking Dem]

86. I couldn't bring myself to watch.

I offered, at the very outset, to finance Bev and her project. Gave her my credit card #. I guess I'm lucky she didn't rob me blind.

But I found it odd that she kept pleading poverty when I had offered to underwrite the intial project. Must have talked to one of the more dormant personalities.

[symbolman]

87. ME TOO!

Small world isn't it? :)

I offered to get her 50 thousand within three days, but she never called me back. We were going to follow her and Andy around and get this OUT to the public THEN.

As a matter of fact I approached a rich pal of mine and told him, "I've got the GOODS on Schwarzenegger. WE can SHUT DOWN the Election here in California.. just get me ONE attorney and we'll get all this OUT in the Media.."

The guy didn't believe me. Too bad, all this would have come out sooner and there's a possibility that The Gropenator might NOT BE GOVENOR.

I want to thank you for supporting the Movement. We were working on a film as well about the same time, only in a different vein, still working on something special in the background on all this.

[greatauntoftriplets]

89. Andy would have loved to have you following and filming them.

It's obvious that she has avoided transparency.

[symbolman]

93. Oh yeah, I would have loved it too

But I would probably have pulled Andy to the side and said, "You and me baby.. let's ditch the wierd chick and do this right!" :)

I KNOW there would have been some Problems with Harris from the start, and I don't suffer those kind fools lightly...

[Lurking Dem]

140. It's beginning to sound

like she took her business plan from L. Ron Hubbard only he was better at it.

[greatauntoftriplets]

88. Yet she once told Andy that she was so poor....

she lived one winter without central heat. I found it rather odd that she had not saved anything from her supposedly lucrative PR business. Nor that the client base and the good will of those clients were not worth something when she decided to...do whatever the hell she is in election reform to accomplish.
Apparently, she let the business go to hell instead of selling it to someone. I have worked in agency PR and witnessed some papers that the two partners set up the legal paperwork to assure the proper division of assets when they both retired and disposed of the business. It was a very small agency, but their shares were valued by outside auditors at more than $1,000,000 each.

Judging by all the invitations to donate at the top of her website alone, I have to wonder....For your sake, I am delighted that she never took you up on the offer, which was extremely generous. Perhaps she feared your oversight.

I am so happy that I never met her.

[symbolman]

95. Me too

I might have had my sister give her the same treatment she gave a nun who got too zealous with a ruler :)

How interesting the observation on the PR stuff, I hadn't thought of that! If she had ANY clients at all she would have NEVER had to scrounge around for money for a gig like this.

Once you saw the Diebold emails there was no going back, it WAS exciting, and I still think we could have SHUT Schwarzeneger DOWN with that :)

[troubleinwinter]

100. Quite some years ago

(way pre-election reform) Bev posted some interesting little writings in order to drum up a little biz for her company.

She advised wannabe writers to find an underground-type, non-mainstream issue (kinda like black box issues?) and write a book about it. Post a website about it and give away the information (just like Bev's book?) for free on the site to draw people there to promote further product. She advised how to then approach a 'venture capitalist' to sell yourself on the attention your site gets, to back you (who backs her?).

My opinion is that she is less about public glory or money, than the egotistical PR coup of a client / backer. I think she sees herself as the goddess of PR. Even if the client is secret.


A story of "Rove's Ringer on the Shelf"

As the issue had been studied and exposed by some activists for a number of years and was clear to become public knowledge eventually, to control it in some manner:

• "Ringer" relentlessly tramples, smears and attacks other activists.
  
  
• "Ringer", the publicist, promotes self and sucks up dollars and attention that might otherwise go to legitimate activists and organizations.
  
  
• "Ringer" posts and pushes so much bullshit as to divert, confuse and complicate matters.
  
  
• "Ringer" abuses legitimate activists to try to incapacitate their finances, professions and reputations.
  
  
• Publicist "ringer" gets honest donors to put all devotion, hopes and faith (eggs) into "ringer's" basket.
  
  
• "Ringer", having become the famed public 'face' of the movement, and sucked attention and donations, leaves a trail of unlawful conduct, tax issues, fraud and lies to be exposed.
  
  
• Make a few phone calls to media, law enforcement and IRS to expose "ringer", 'leader' of the movement as a fraud, to discretit the movement as a bunch of criminal loons.
  
  

[troubleinwinter]

98. Hahahaha!!!!!

"lucrative PR business". I betcha ya got that from Bev! Hahahaha!!! Well, there was that book about the bellydancers who had some stories about dancing for celebrities (one of the dancers who contributed to the book complained that Bev didn't care anything about interesting stories, only stories that included celebrities). That was a good one. Then the one about the old pillar of Texas society socialite lady who served tea, or whatever. I suppose that one probly sold 80 copies or so. Oh, and the Clinton cigars of course.

I wouldn't worry about Bev being cold in the winter in her very lovely two-story house in a very beautiful neighborhood of Renton suburbs. I've seen pictures, it's sure nice. Remember, too, that her husband, David 'Sonny' Dudley works for Boeing, and likely can pay a heating bill.

As for her Talion business.... she claimed to have been soooo busy spending considerable time searching for new office space for BBV, but GUESS WHAT! BBV is at the same address as the old Talion office. BBV even had the same old phone number for a year or so. Yes, the address to order Clinton Cigars is the same as BBV.org.

[greatauntoftriplets]

99. I am not sure where that memory came from...possibly a BevBot.

And I hadn't read all that you posted, which makes her sound more like a cheap-ass press agent than a real public relations person. I represented corporate clients and wrote releases and placed stories with metropolitan daily newspapers, community press, national consumer and trade publications.

I NEVER trusted Bev, thanks to the whole Kelvin Mace thing. Nor did I ever donate. I only joined BBV because Andy made me. I never visited it. Oh, Andy knew I didn't donate.

Those are great stories, and I wish I had heard them before.

So I guess that I should not assume that she was ever a working journalist...as I was for the Chicago Tribune?

[troubleinwinter]

101. I remember the dramatic claim about her

huddling in the cold under a blanket, too. It was either Bev or one of her dear sockpuppets (maybe Bailey, who knew her innermost thoughts).

Actually, the two books I mentioned were by Bev.

I only know of one author that she promoted. He wrote a long article on the 'net that she had not performed according to contract and she ended up having to refund money to him.

She wrote an article several years ago about the Ten Top Mistakes when trying to promote your book or product. SURPRISE! She broke her Rule #1 by fucking with Keith's staff. She KNOWS better, but seemingly chose to make sure that the issue was not one that KO would any longer pursue. Hmmm. Who is her client?

She wrote an article years ago on the importance of keeping excellent sortable databases for marketing purposes and went into great detail. Yet, when I asked her after a year and five months, "How many counties complied with the FOIAs?", she could not or would not answer after asking five times, but said she had the information on two dry erase boards.

She also wrote about how important it is to make payroll deposits, as 'IRS fines are huge'. Nonetheless, she did not follow her own advice, even knowing that donor money would be used to pay and fees and fines.

WTF?

[greatauntoftriplets]

102. I think I know who her client is....

and so do you.

;)

I so wish that Andy was here to refute all this. And I hate the fact that Mrs. Stephenson was so upset. I understand that she has not felt very well of late. And such a nice lady, one who lost two children in one year.

[troubleinwinter]

105. I haven't spoken with Mrs. S. directly,

but I understand that she is one very smart and dedicated lady! And very much loved by those who have come to know her.

[greatauntoftriplets]

106. Mrs. S. is a very sweet lady....

And she is not pleased.

[Lurking Dem]

139. I can't even begin to imagine

what she has gone through.

Andy blows with the breeze every spring in my garden as I planted (white) perrenials in my garden the day he died.

When they bloom, I always say a little prayer for her.

[Vadem]

110. Bless her heart! Our prayers and love is with her....G_d love her!...n/t

[fooj]

166. He IS here with us.

Hence, these passionate refutations.

For Andy. For democracy. :hug:

Truth is our most powerful weapon.

[Generic Other]

103. Each person's contribution helped her make the next connection

We know she will use the HBO film to open more doors for her. Like a rigged chain letter, all the rewards will be channeled to flow in her direction.

No matter what you do, don't give Bev your money! Don't fall for her hype. Check out her website. What's the most prominent feature? The donation button. Resist.

Instead, find the voting activists in your own states. Volunteer your time and donate your money to these activists.

Don't give up the fight. The experts are looking at the machines now. They don't need Bev's help. And neither do we.

Be skeptical. You'll be less embarrassed.

[mdmc]

108. my non voting buddy was telling me about the HBO program

the other night.

He said, "Diebold can't be trusted. Too bad no one cares. (By no one, he meant Eliot Spitzer, Hillary Clinton, Andrew Cuomo, and all the Republicans.)

My question, respectfully (I do not want to besmirch our right, honorable party) - Why don't a majority of elected Dems care about the Diebold threat?

As far as this HBO program - my buddy felt that EV is fucked up. Is that not what we think at DU?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

112. Bingo!

Your friend doesn't give a care about the personal issues between Bev Harris' camp, Andy's camp, Kelvin Mace....ect.....he just wants his damn vote counted if he chooses to do so.

I'm glad this show woke up one person, even if it just led to more of the usual clique-like squabbles we see here whenever Bev Harris comes up. Screw her, the issue is bigger than her. Let's hold off that shit until after Tuesday and keep our eye on the ball.

[troubleinwinter]

113. Well, really, I think this discussion is amongst a few DUers

and is not directed at, nor likely to be read by mdmc's non-voting buddy.

mdmc, why doesn't your buddy vote?

[mdmc]

121. give em somethin to vote for

stop the drug war, stop the iraq war, do something.... If Maurice Hinchey was ever really contested, he would vote to support Hinchey. Our town has real dirty local politics, and it turns off almost everyone.

He knows Bush is an evil sob. Can't we be better then "less evil":rantoff: ps- thanks for askin :)

[greatauntoftriplets]

124. It isn't up to troubleinwinter to give your friend something to vote for...

It is up to you and your friend to vote for someone you like in the primary.

If you lose (as I did in a couple of races), shit happens. I am still voting on Tuesday.

[mdmc]

126. lol

My buddies start hidin from me on Sunday. I track their asses down and force them to vote. They will be doing bong hits at our friends house, and I will kick in the door and drag them to the polls. They get all bummed out and moan, "Who do we need to vote for?" I'm always like, "Just vote yes on the school budget and for all the working family party candidates." The primary is always the hardest...

[greatauntoftriplets]

127. I always vote in primaries.

They are damn important.

O8)

[EFerrari]

120. Is your attention span so fragile that you can't post to a thread

without forgetting what you're supposed to be doing between now and Tuesday? Mine isn't, and I'm working two different campaigns.

Keep your eye on the ball. Mine are just fine, thanks.

[mdmc]

123. I got a local race to work on too

and in NYS, we still haven't been diebold'ed. NYSCD19 go John Hall!

[EFerrari]

134. Go, New York! LOL!

:toast:

[mmonk]

136. So the question arises,

would Andy's work be more in vain with or without showing this film to people who are unaware of these machines, memory cards and executables, tabulators and such?

[EFerrari]

148. Well, no. The that arises is, why were the film makers less than

candid with Andy about the use they'd make of the tape they shot of him.

[greatauntoftriplets]

138. Interesting. I just talked to my niece who has seen the film.

She thought that Harris came across as extremely self-serving, self-promoting and full of herself. She was not at all impressed with her, and learned nothing really new from it because of the conversation with Andy when she met him. When I told her Ted and Mrs. Stephenson's reactions, she was not at all surprised.

Despite that, she was happy to have seen it for the opportunity to see Andy at work.

I talked to Ted last night, he was doing better having gotten the rant off his chest.

[roody]

141. Please be comforted by the fact that the truth

does shine through in time. Look at the fall of the Bush Regime. Six years is actually a short time for the light to shine through. Harris' lack of integrity etc. will not obscure the fact that our elections have been stolen and that most people will demand clean elections, (even Repubs.) Truth stands the test of time. All of Andy's hard work will come to good, is coming to good, even though it passed through the hands of someone unscrupulous. She will fall by the wayside and those who struggled for justice will be honored.
On another topic, the book Hope in the Dark by Rebecca Solnit is a great and uplifting read.

[troubleinwinter]

146. "the truth does shine through in time"

I agree. I posted upthread that "The truth will stand on its own in the end."

Andy was such a wonderful teacher, and many of us here (and elsewhere) learned so much from his patient teaching and friendship.

"All of Andy's hard work will come to good, is coming to good...".



Andy Stephenson shows Cynthia McKinney how to hack a machine

[Kelvin Mace]

152. BushCo isn't dead yet

and the truth prevails only when its guardians are VERY diligent. Many people in this thread wishes we would shut up and let Bev crow.

[roody]

155. Damn. I sent her $50 after 2004. I had not met DU yet.

[Kelvin Mace]

156. I am very sorry

This is why we keep talking about this, to save other folks from losing money and time.

[kdpeters]

145. I'm so sorry for your grief

I don't know the story about this "Bev" person, but you obviously loved Andy very very much. I hope you didn't have to see it alone.

[Kelvin Mace]

150. Here you go

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Kelvin%20Mace/2

[Senator]

154. Take heart: This "bev moment" is merely a single hanging chad in "Andy's Election"

Will Pitt had it right. This is Andy's Election.

This single film, while being well-received, is only one tiny part in a huge "scheme of things." And rather late to the game at that.

The entire nation is already abuzz from Andy's early warning. It was his evangelism on this that lit fires under others from coast to coast. It was Andy in Ohio, Andy in Nashville, Andy in California, Andy in Washington DC.

He was the "star" in real life.

He is still the beacon that lives in peoples' hearts.

--

[upi402]

157. Andy *is* an inspiration to me

and his time WILL come. This is not going away and the HBO showing is not the only film that will be made of this.
"Calling Mr Stone!"

[GreenTea]

158. What's also "really important" is to show the unaware how easily

the republicans can and have hacked our votes to lead us into fascism, for the greedy self-interest of a few.

As for Andy...I'm sure he would want it exposed any way possible, even at the expense of one's ego...

Cheers to you Andy!

Watch the HBO documentary and show it to those who still do not believe it's possible and that it can't really happen...That's what the HBO documentary is all about, that's whats really important...Not our own personal peeves....I can only believe that only republicans wouldn't want anyone to see it. (I hope).

[Tatiana]

159. The truth will set you free and we saw Andy's contribution in the documentary.

As soon as I saw Andy's face, I started bawling. How many tapes did he pour over? How many miles did he travel? Could any one of us have done as much as he did? I never knew him personally, but I admired his dedication and passion - whether running for elected office or trying to preserve our democracy. In spite of Bev's actions, his bright light came shining through in the documentary. He carried himself with class and dignity and it's up to all of us here to keep his memory alive.

[talk hard]

167. bull-shit, it was a good documentary

[fooj]

169. BULLSHIT. Right back atcha.

[goodboy]

171. I just watched it on google video. I agree, Ted. And I'm sorry.

We should make a film about Andy and the work he did.