This is all moronic

[Perky]

This is not the end of Democracy as we know it.

THis is not the most important vote of a quarter century.

Democratic Senators who fail to support a fillibuster are not traitors.

I am niot happy with the outcome. but I trace it back to the real issues. The inability of THe Democratic Party to grow its base.

It is an absolutely absurd notion to now oppose Dem Senators who do not openly support a fillibuste that is bound to fail.

They will not have any primary opposition so there is not alternative to turn to. Which means you will sit on yourhands in the general? I guess that means you would rather have another repuke who votes you way 10% of the time than a democrat who votes your way 85% of the time.

I swear some of you folks would rather protest than govern.

These guys and ladies know what they are doing. The filibuster can't be sustained. There are other battles to be fought...This is not the most important vote of the last half century....Not hardly.....

[Coexist]

1. SCOTUS decisions affect us every day of our lives

this is the big fight.

I beg to differ.

[ClayZ]

4. I agree FLDem5 we have to do this!

Our democaracy is in peril. bu$h world is UGLY!

[BigYawn]

142. Only fools fight a war they are sure to lose....eom

[flyarm]

145. then why are the rethugs calling in record numbers?? please tell us

and i do remember the rethugs calling and getting harriet pulled!

please do not discourage Americans fulfilling their obligation to the constitution..remember..it says"we the people" .."we " are their employers..
and we have an obligation to tell the senators what we want..and to tell them we will hold them accountable for their vote!

fly

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. That thread title is spot on.

(Not in the way you intended, though.)

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Well said and ironically funny. n/t

[LSK]

3. Unitary executive

When Bush declares himself supreme leader, and the Congress all votes for it and the SCOTUS agrees, where are we?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSK]

19. have you talked to the NSA lately?

I suppose you would let them in your house any time huh?

[EC]

121. Don't need to invite them

they can now enter when we are not home...

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. LSK is one of the least hysterical posters on DU

I've seen lots of tinfoilhatters, and he's hardly one of them. I'm sorry you do not see the importance of stopping Alito.

[LSK]

23. thanks n/t

[KitchenWitch]

86. I agree

LSK seems to keep a sane head on his shoulders.

[Blue_In_AK]

18. Exactly.

That unitary executive thing scares me more than anything else about Alito. Now, more than ever, we need three EQUAL branches of government.

[Generator]

49. Even worse than that

Unitary executive/signing statement/above the law/ means EVEN if the congress says no no no-as they did with torture- Bush says, okay BUT not if I really really need to I will. And if we had a congress that pushed back-but we don't because of the numbers, their loyalty and the reluctance of the Dems-(oh what a lovely package)then the SCOTUS backs up Bush anyway and the Congress is moot. It already feels that way to me. Bush has already bypassed congress with the anti-torture legislation (I have no proof yet oh har har that's he acted on bypassing it yet-but are you trusting him?) and with the spying. It's already happened. That's why posters like me are hysterical. He's already bypassed congress and the only re-dress is the SCOTUS whom he's hand picked to agree with him. First it was Meiers, because she was in love with Bushand was not bright enough to know the difference between what was constitutional and what wasn't.

Now it's Mr. little fasicst Alito with his brilliant mind and his disregard for the rights of Americans and you can bet-just as Roberts- his absolute alligence to whatever Emperor Bush wants.

[RC]

5. Say what?

Alito is bought & paid for. He is already on record as wanting to please who ever he is working for.

[LeftNYC]

6. This is a lifetime appointment. SCOTUS decided who our president

was in 2000. Roe V Wade, Unitary Executive, The far right shift of the court as a whole? This isnt important?:banghead:

[WildEyedLiberal]

7. It's the most important vote in a long time

Alito is young and dangerous. I DO NOT want that man on the SC for 30 years pushing the Court backwards and erasing a century's worth of progress.

[hang a left]

8. "The inability of THe Democratic Party to grow its base."

We won in 2000 and 2004 what else do you want?



:evilgrin:

[converted_democrat]

135. Absolutely.. And I converted to the Dem party, and I know 10 others

on this board that have done the same.. I don't know of any Dems that have become pukes.. I'm not saying it hasn't occurred, but I know many pukes that have gone Dem, but I don't know of any Dems that have gone puke.

[Bjornsdotter]

10. Not the most important vote?

You don't know that....perhaps it is. Only time will tell and by then it will be too late.

Cheers!

[tridim]

I choose to fight against the fascist takeover of America

You're making the founding father's wives cry.

[byronius]

124. That is the funniest thing I have heard all week.

[jsamuel]

11. thought processes like that are exactly why Dems haven't grown their base

[MoonRiver]

12. Speak for yourself.

My family will not give another cent to the DNC if Dems don't at least try to filibuster. I'll vote, but, if they don't stand up like patriots, no more of our money or time investment goes to these losers.

[FreedomAngel82]

74. Only John Kerry is deserving

Since he's the one working and fighting. Him and Kennedy are the only one's it seems. :cry:

[MoonRiver]

157. I'm really hoping they can pull it off.

Hats off to them for trying! :thumbsup:

[seabeyond]

13. i agree with your whole post perky. and kerry put himself out there

so now i am supporting him with all i have. again, i agree with you

[sweetheart]

59. ditto

Solidarity behind the people
who know the score on the senate floor.

"on Alito filibusting"

It worries me that
the next guy be
worse than he
if rejected be
thread minority.

[saracat]

15. This IS the most important vote of the century. Sorry to disagree

And if these people knew what they are doing we wouldn't be in the trouble we are in. I think John Kery needs to be supported in this and any Senator who doesn't support him is a fool. And bound to fail? Why ? Because we have a few turncoats? If those people would vote according to Dem principles instead of their own asses we wouldin't even consider the possibility of failure. And I don't believe in protesting rather than governing. But when you are in the minority party protesting is the best you can do. It may even lead to governing!

[LeftNYC]

16. What other battles are more important?

Some battles that are fought could be lost if Alito gets on the Supreme Court...Fight the fight now...

[Perky]

24. Articelsof Impeachement (N/t)

[Walt Starr]

29. So when does that come up for a vote? n/t

[LeftNYC]

31. You have to start somewhere.

This is a battle to win the war. I dont understand how people dont see that. Even if Bush gets impeached, we still have to deal with Alito.

[Just Me]

36. If Alito is voted in, the basis for the articles may disappear.

Get it? :shrug:

We have arrived at the crossroads of destiny for America. I take that quite seriously.

[LeftNYC]

39. thank you! nt

[Leopolds Ghost]

71. Congress Cannot Impeach for Something that is not a Crime.

SCOTUS may decide that B* committed no crimes, See?

It's up to SCOTUS to use this impeachment as an opportunity
to uphold the power of Congress or else to permanently
increase the executive power and vindicate Bush now, See?

In its infinite wisdom it may decide to reverse the Nixon rulings, See?

(/Lon Chaney voice)

Without O'Connor on the court (and perhaps even with O'Connor) your hopes for blowing the Democratic wad on Impeachment is a pipedream. Only way I see it happening (and this is a credible scenario) is if Dems filibuster, O'Connor retires early and Dems win the Senate in November. So, no, impeachment won't happen with an Alito court in place. Why did you think Bush was so wrapped up in getting a crony like Meiers on the court?

[durablend]

127. thank you!

At least some people get it.

[Warren Stupidity]

130. Perky is dead wrong but you are incorrect.

Congress can impeach because it is Sunday and it is raining. The constitution simply states that they must find high crimes and misdemeanors but that phrase actually has no specific legal meaning. There do not have to be any violations of law. Impeachment is entirely a politicall process.

[FreedomAngel82]

75. And that means more to you than

privacy, equal rights and Roe v Wade? Sorry, I don't think so!

[Warren Stupidity]

131. You are delusional.

The party of no spine is not going to impeach dogshit. We can't get it together to oppose this rightwing fucktard but magically our masterful strategists and political jui-jitsu experts are going to impeach bush?

Don't bogart that joint sonny, pass it over to me.

[Walt Starr]

17. I disagree completely

As far as I'm concerned, this is the single most important vote in my lifetime.

[OKthatsIT]

73. I agree...this is a huge turning point.

[Individualist]

87. Same here, Walt,

and I might add that I'm 62 years old. This is equivalent to the Enabling Act which gave Hitler absolute power.

[Snivi Yllom]

122. Walt, you know what the problem is

it's not the filibuster

it's winning the WH and the Senate

without that you've got nothing

this was lost in 2004

[eleny]

20. You could say that about every issue

When the hell do the Dems make their stand, then, if not during the selection of a SCOTUS judge?

[leftofthedial]

22. the root problem is NOT the failure of the Dems to grow their base

their "base" is the majority

their failure is to REPRESENT their base.

Instead they try to serve two masters: corporations and constituents, with ties going to the corporations.



There is no question about protesting versus governing. The repukes are "governing" (if you want to call the rise of corporate and theofascism "governing"). The Dems are ineffectual bystanders who refuse to get involved.

Filibuster aside, they haven't even made an articulate, principled argument against the foulest SCOTUS nominee in my lifetime.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

25. Hey... I represent that.... :) nt.

[firefox]

26. I like to think the conversation negates what the Senate didn't

Sure Alito will get his appointment. The hearings should have brought out the significance of Alito and his Emperor authorized Constitution. That is all that a fillibuster can do and really if there were a unified front it could rally public opinion against Alito and bring out the most outstanding quality of his nomination.

But barring all of that, I must say that I am thankful for all of the discussion here at DU as it brands us all with what has gone wrong. The Wealthy Rulers might get Alito, but we should get some true awareness of the situation.

We do not have government. We have rule. If we had government we wouldn't have 6 media companies skimming off the talk of the lost class war and the pursuit of Empire that came with it.

[mmonk]

27. Do you know how long this move has been in planning

by the republicans? This is their Holy Grail move because they will be able to wreck all the government agencies they've been wanting to for a long time as well as limit Congress's ability to fund anything and overturn precedents they want to get rid of.

[converted_democrat]

137. You are absolutely correct....n/t

[BuyingThyme]

28. This is the vote.

This is the vote many of us have been talking about all of our adult lives.

It really is. It's not a bad dream.

[Bluebear]

30. Hmmm.

[Lars39]

34. Yep. Pretty consistently, too.

On edit: Bluebear, are you the DUer who is trying to unravel the faith-based charities mess?
I gave you credit in another thread. :hi:

[merh]

41. exactly!

Hi Bluebear :hug:

[Bluebear]

46. Hello love

Think of you often, hope things are at least improving for you!

[merh]

47. Still in fema/sba/insurance company limbo

but things haven't gotten worse, so that is an improvement.

Just keep those positive energies coming my way, they really do help.

:hug: :loveya:

[DancingBear]

76. I hear ya

and I agree. :hi:

[Horse with no Name]

80. I raise your Hmmmm and throw in a box of

:popcorn:
But it is a consistent box of popcorn.:evilgrin:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

32. And what is?

If we don't stop Alito, what will happen next? If Bu$hCo gets this piece of shit through, I don't even want to THINK about what is going to happen to my civil rights. There goes my right to an abortion, for starters...

This country has gotten out of control. It's time to take a stand. If we don't stand now, when do we stand? How much more conservatism do we allow to be foisted upon us? Where do we draw the line?

[mattclearing]

33. Re: Rather protest than govern.

This is about a lifetime appointment. This IS governing.

[depakid]

35. Wrong on all counts.

It's pretty obvious that you haven't been paying attention- and even more obvious that you don't know anything about the state of the law. Ever read a Supreme Court decision? Unlikely. Know how many hang in the balance? How many of your rights are on the line- or how cowardly the Dems will look if they punt?

[BlueEyedSon]

37. What do you mean "This is not the end of Democracy as we know it."?

Look around you for gosh sakes?

[Carni]

38. Yeah well if they know so damned much why are they the minority party?

Sorry--my opinion is my opinion and I have been hearing for five years all this strategy bullshit that hasn't worked.

Going along with the Republicans and trying to reach the so called middle (who I don't believe exists I think WE are that middle ground) hasn't worked.

I am done with *trusting them because they know what they are doing" when it's totally the opposite of what I believe 7 out of 10 times--screw it I am fighting for what I believe in not their senate seats.

And I DON'T WANT ALITO!

[fooj]

40. Do you have an extra pair of those rose-colored glasses for me?

Peace.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. This vote is important on so many levels...My daughter depends on

our senators to vote it down...an Impeachment proceeding depends on it...And that's just for starters. Pay attention please.

[spuddonna]

45. I agree. I am fighting for my daughter...

I sent Byrd a letter urging him to re-examine his vote, and to back Kerry in the filibuster.

I am not ready to just hand my reproductive rights over to the religious right just because our Senators need a kick in the ass to get them moving on this!

[Joe for Clark]

43. No man, they have the right idea .

It is just not a black and white world. This has NOTHING to do with winning or losing this one fight. It has to do with growing a spine, it has to do with taking a stand. Principles.

We may lose - may probably lose - this one fight. What is that in thinking of the truly big fight coming in November??

You can lose a battle and in so doing win a war.

We are right to fight - maybe a losing battle - because in so doing, we can gain leadership. And that is what we are missing.

It really is a gray world, sometimes. This is not gray, it is clear to me.

Joe

[worldgonekrazy]

44. No, its defeatist attitudes like yours that make Dems the minority

Bush has a 36% approval rating. Has it ever occured to you that maybe Americans WANT Democrats to be "obstructionist"?

[BigYawn]

143. Realistically, we were defeated the day the repukes got 55 senators

in 2004. If the filibuster succeeds, it means nothing since the
repukes can then go to the nuclear option. And our senators from
red states will be the real losers for having gone the filibuster
route.

[radio4progressives]

48. let's see, betcha you're a middle /upper class white guy, am i right?

:shrug: sure sounds like one to me..

[stepnw1f]

50. Please Leave

seriously.

[JetCityLiberal]

51. Of all the things I am feeling today moronic is not one of them

I feel involved and empowered by raising my voice. Hopefully it will help Democratic Senators who are unsure raise their voice as well.

Cheers!

[SurfRidem]

52. I'm with you. Next week will be no different than this week.

[Kurovski]

115. But that''ll just be the effect of the ripe bud.

[WildEyedLiberal]

147. LOL

:rofl:

[Kurovski]

149. Dave's not here, man...

:-)

[hlthe2b]

53. a little message for you, Perky:

"First they went after the Communists, and I did not stand up, because I was not a Communist.
Then they went after the homosexuals and infirm, and I did not stand up because I was neither.
Then they went after the Jews, and I did not stand up, because I was not a Jew.
Then they went after the Catholics, and I did not stand up, because I was Protestant.
Finally, they went after me, and there was no one left to stand up for me."

-Pastor Martin Neimoller, speaking of whom the Nazis targeted during World War Two




Thank GOd, I'm surrounded by so many DUERS who will stand up. Perhaps, Perky, you may want to examine what is truly important enough for YOU to stand up, as well.

[BlueIris]

54. "These guys and ladies know what they are doing." That's right.

So think about who's doing it. HE WOULDN'T BE DOING IT IF HE HAD ANY OTHER OPTIONS. This effort is being made in the interest of the next Democratic president being able to govern.

I appreciate posts that call the crazy, left-wing freepers on this website out on their bullshit, I really do. But...the idea that you don't see that this actually IS the most important vote of the last half-century, the idea that you're sympathetic to the straight-jacket Party leadership has been in since the media and Bush put the full-court press on REALITY after 2001, but don't recognize that Kerry and Kennedy are also part of the leadership and wouldn't be taking this risk if it wasn't essential...I don't think you really have all the facts. I hope that you get some someday.

I love Ignore.

[Ovett]

55. I disagree

If you had paid attention to the hearings and floor debate you would know that Alito could have far reaching effects on issues across the spectrum: Roe, civil rights, civil liberties, separation of church and state, corporate power, the environment, and most importantly maybe executive power and the separation of powers. Now imagine if Bush gets yet another nominee. It is a huge deal that he is replacing O'Connor on all these issues... this vote is about putting a finger in dike and hope the next nominee isn't as hard right.

[tnlefty]

70. Welcome to DU, Ovett!

Nice post!:hi:

[Hissyspit]

106. Welcome to DU!

:patriot:

[Dr Fate]

56. "These guys and ladies know what they are doing"

I heard that a lot when I questioned what we were doing during the last 3 election cycles we lost.

The "You radicals need to let the adults handle this" talk-down has been played out.

[bettyellen]

57. it could be most important, if you are a WOMAN....

and somehow i doubt it. never seen a Dem woman who didn't take this very seriously.
sad how many men choose to ignore that.

[beaconess]

95. or if you're black n/t

[bettyellen]

98. you know it, sister. i'm tired of being told to wait my turn....

your issue is too hot button!
privacy NOW
civil rights NOW
we have to remember what we used to be, before the DLC put us in the back seat.

[beaconess]

102. Just sit tight and be quiet. We'll get to you . . .

No more - we're fighting back!

[bettyellen]

105. while we count on - indeed assume-- your continued support.

and don't go getting all resentful or uppity or anything about it.
gggggrrrrrrrrrr
thanks for sharing the rant with me, beaconess.
:hi:

[Walt Starr]

134. Or if you're not a Christian n/t

[radio4progressives]

58. looks like a drive by...

:shrug:

[flyarm]

146. they are out in gaggles !! droves or whatever..they are in a panic!

keep driving by..we are not fooled by fools!!


fly

[mmonk]

60. Yes it is

To these statements:
"This is not the end of Democracy as we know it."

"THis is not the most important vote of a quarter century."

"Democratic Senators who fail to support a fillibuster are not traitors."

[wisteria]

61. Its about principal and doing what is right.

So you don't see Alito as a danger? You don't think he will make Bush's avoidance of the laws of our nation easier? ,look, why not stop being negative and at least try to help out. Are you one of the people always saying we have no backbone? Or do you think this is all just about Abortion and that doesn't concern you.

[Perky]

64. You are reading WAAAAAAAAAAY too much into the original post,

[Perky]

62. Look here is the point of the orignal post

Look I am not saying a fillibuster is ill advised. I am saying that those who want to pillory those Dems who feel compelled to not support a fillibuster is misplaced and short-sighted.

I have no problem at all with a Fillibuster.

The problem is that. if we make the stand here...however principled it may be, it will be seen in a large portion of the country as purely political posturing and bait for the nuclear option. It a bit of a gambit to think the Dem Leadership can convince the middle third that this is principled.

Again, I have no problem with fillibustering but it has to pay dividends somewhere.

It's either they have the votes for cloture or thaey seek the nuclear option. If we have the votes to push that fight to bait Frist trying a nuclear option.....Alito gets on the court anyway. but their is alot of of upside at the same time.

The big fight is going to be over whether to impeach the president on the wiretapping (more is going to emerge that it is not nearly as isolated as has been admitted to). I think if we are viewed as politicizing the confirmation, we run the risk of not having the middle third in our column should it come to a serios discussion about impeachment.

[bigjohn16]

65. "it has to pay dividends somewhere"

stopping a unitary executive, protecting the third and final branch of government from the right, making sure 150 million women still have the right to choose.

[Perky]

67. The argument assumes that it Roberts and Scalia

would favor a unitary exec. As strict construnctionists they would have a hard time constructin a justification for that.

On ABortion. The court is not going to overturn Roe. If they did, The GOP would lose elctions in landslides for ten years; There would be a constiutional amendmentment offerd the nest day to create a Consitutional amendment supporting a Right to Privacy. Dems and civil libertarian would join forcesw to see is passed in 45 or mor states.

But is is a hypotherical at best...They will never overturn Roe.....It is settled law.

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. And the U.S. Will never go to war unprovoked....

...and never step outside the Geneva conventions...and never abandon the Constitution in favor of spying on its own citizens...I could go on.

[bigjohn16]

69. You may be willing to roll the dice on Alito but I'm not. nt

[Leopolds Ghost]

85. Dream on... just because you wish it doesn't mean it'll happen

On Edit: What I am trying to say is, if you don't intend to stand up and fight now, don't expect the masses to stand up and fight on your behalf LATER, after your good ol' SCOTUS has softened them up a little by heigtening the contradictions.

Every backlash in history was engineered by people who decided to stand up and fight and not wait until they had control over other people or other people's opinions. It's not just a matter of sitting back and waiting for the pendulum to swing. It'll swing right back and hit you in the ass because you were waiting for the disgruntled masses to come flocking back to your side when they see the error of their own anti-abortion laws which I assure you would be passed in 45 states if Roe were overturned...

And given the fact that even semi-radical folks like me exist who aren't comfortable with abortion and would not support it except on the general principle of keeping the government out of people's private decisions: how fast do you think it would take for weak-kneed centrist DINOs to write off the abortion issue as another moral value Dems'll have to get used to, or better yet, all those upper-middle-class voting Republicans who will continue to vote their pocketbooks knowing that, as pissed as they are about having to send Suzie to Massachusetts to get an abortion, it's really not a big deal compared to the total value of their tax break?

And what will it matter when the people with pitchforks protesting the post-Roe laws can't get their votes counted anyway?

[Warren Stupidity]

129. Alito disagreed on that point: "It is settled law"

Alito is not a "strict constructionist" he is a rightwing corporatist shithead who has ruled arbitrarily and without regard for accepted interpretations of the constitution.

Roe will not be directly overturned, it will be slowly buried under a series of incremental decisions that will diminish its relevance to meaninglessness.

The new gang of four will support the assertion of dictatorial authority. Alito made it clear that he will support this, I rather doubt that Scalia, Thomas and Rogers won't go along. Only Kennedy stands in the way and nobody knows how or why he votes for anything.

Your blithe optimism is entirely at odds with the last six years of the history of the end of the republic.

[ScreamingMeemie]

66. Perky....You've got to STAND for something or you'll FALL for anything.

Time and again...the Dems have fallen, going back to the 2000 election. Do you actually think with Roberts as Chief Justice and Alito at his side, that we'll get an impeachment? Do you actually think that a Conservative Hat trick isn't going to radically change the lives of millions of people in this country? My daughter's future is not something to fluff off. I am sick of Dems jettisoning off their base in order to appear more electable...I'm calling, I'm urging others to call...and I'm only sorry that you've Fallen, again...for anything? What battle are we going to pick and where if not here? Thank You.

[Leopolds Ghost]

81. "the middle third"?

You think the 40% of Americans don't vote because they are principled centrists who just can't bring themselves to call themselves conservative or liberal?

No, they don't vote because they think the Repubs are corrupt, elitist ***holes and they assume the Dems are chickens**ts who are paid to be, as the Post put it in their triumphant headline "Loyal Opposition" showing a passel of defeated-looking dems with the caption "Alito all but certain."

They don't know who Alito is, but they have a vague idea of where their interests are and they know if the Dems aren't going to fight an issue that they haven't studied themselves, why should they stick their necks out in the Dems stead? They got jobs and lives. Most people like to see someone stand up and risk their necks for what they believe in. Its the whole bandwagon thing.

[Perky]

93. I was refeering to the m iddle third of the voting public

[WillyT]

63. Tell Us More 'White Straight Male With Money And Liberty To Spare' !!!

Not trying to be confrontational... maybe more 'Dances With Wolves' like.

Sorry if I offended, 'Shits On Democracy'!

:wtf::evilgrin::wtf:

[FreedomAngel82]

72. So have you been paying attention?

[Cleita]

77. Or, the culture of corruption has bled over to our side.

I think when people are dying because of corporate corruption, and our planet is being raped for profit, it boils down to a little more than differences in battle strategy.

[mmonk]

78. Here is the problem with your post from my vantage point

"This is not the end of Democracy as we know it." Why isn't it?

"THis is not the most important vote of a quarter century." Why isn't it? What's a "unitary "executive?

"Democratic Senators who fail to support a fillibuster are not traitors." Very questionable. When you get into the area of people's rights, you're messing with lives.

[Roland99]

79. What is this, Opposite Day?

What a moronic thread to create.


Booo!

[KyndCulture]

110. Amen to that!!! I totally disagree with the OP..

so a unilateral unitary government means nothing them I guess.

yes this is VERY important...

[Clarkie1]

82. I can't disagree with anything you say, except I respect those who fight

on principle, even if the fight is unwinnable...which in this case it is.

Personally, I choose my battles strategically...much like you it would seem.

Carry on.

[WLKjr]

83. Hey, let's all just roll over and play nice

F**K THAT!

You either stand up and fight for what you believe in or get the hell out of the way and let the ones who really do care about the direction of this country do the heavy lifting.

[Zodiak]

84. Well, let's put your analysis of turncoats votes to the test

Instead of empty rhetoric, I actually track Democratic votes as they stak up against the Bush fascist agenda. Here is the list.

DEMOCRATIC SENATOR LIBERAL INDEX
-------------------------------------------
Harkin (Iowa) 89.2
Boxer (California) 85.7
Lautenberg (New Jersey) 85.7
Akaka (Hawaii) 78.6
Durbin (Illinois) 78.6
Kennedy (Massacheusetts) 78.6
Kerry (Massacheusetts) - DLC 78.6
Corzine (New Jersey) 71.4
Dayton (Minnesota) 71.4
Feingold (Wisconsin) 71.4
Levin (Michigan) 71.4
Mikulski (Maryland) 71.4
Reed (Rhode Island) 71.4
Sarbanes (Maryland) 71.4
Obama (Illinois) 67.9
Dodd (Connecticut) - DLC 64.3
Leahy (Vermont) 64.3
Shumer (New York) 64.3
Wyden (Oregon) 64.3
Bayh (Indiana) - DLC 64.3
Biden (Deleware) 64.3
Clinton (New York) - DLC 60.7
Dorgan (North Dakota) - DLC 57.1
Stabenow (Michigan) - DLC 57.1
Inouye (Hawaii) 57.1
Reid (Nevada) 57.1
Byrd (West Virginia) 50
Murray (Washington) 50
Rockefeller (West Virgnia) 50
Bingaman (New Mexico) 42.9
Cantwell (Washington) - DLC 42.9
Johnson (South Dakota) - DLC 42.9
Kohl (Wisconsin) - DLC 42.9
Baucus (Montana) - DLC 39.3
Conrad (North Dakota) - DLC 39.3
Feinstein (California) 39.3
Leiberman (Connecticut) - DLC 35.7
Carper (Deleware) - DLC 28.6
Lincoln (Arkansas) - DLC 21.4
Nelson (Florida) - DLC 21.4
Salazar (Colorado) - DLC 21.4
Pryor (Arkansas) - DLC 17.9
Landrieu (Louisianna) - DLC 14.3
Nelson (Nebraska) - DLC 0.0

It looks to me like there are very few Senators that meet your 10%/85% standard as you present it in the OP. On the bottom are Democrats that vote with Republicans less than 50% of the time. I submit that their loyalty is crap and this vote is just one more example of it.

Five years we have been listening to self-appointed shepherds of the Democratic party. The line has been drawn...I say we purge the party after this.

[leftofthedial]

88. I agree with your subject

and very little in the message.

[high density]

89. I think you're completely wrong

This vote is extremely important and it is now time for the Democrats to at least attempt to filibuster this fascist asshole. They keep "saving" it for something significant and now it's time for our senators to actually act against this nutjob nominee. If the Republicans are going to shitcan the filibuster then we might as well get it over with now.

[LibertyorDeath]

90. Your post is "moranic"

[Pastiche423]

91. No, what is moronic

is your utter lack of our political history. To give up and not fight this confirmation, is to also give up on the mid term elections.

Why bother vote for or support the "leaders" in the senate when they won't fight for us?

How old are you anyway?

:thumbsdown:

[Perky]

92. For the last time I never said don't filliuster.

I just said that it is moronic to talk about not voting for Dems who are opposing a fillibuster. It only cedes somewhat vulnerable seats to the Republicans.

[Pastiche423]

94. What's the difference?

Why support and vote for someone that does not support you?

[K-W]

96. How are WE governing if our politicians dont listen?

How are WE governing if we care more about our team winning elections than we care if our team is actually representing us?

[holboz]

97. That attitude is the #1 problem I have with the Dem party now.

IMO our Democratic representatives have conceded on too many important issues whilst saying, "We're going to pick our battles. We'll roll out the big ammo when something important comes up." Too many times on issues that are most important to us the Dems have rolled over and failed to put up a fight. That's why Repukes continue to bully. I'm ready for the Gooch (i.e., the Repukes) to get socked in the kisser.

So what in your opinion is a "big issue" that will warrant all the bally-hoo? I'm interested to know. I think for a lot of rank and file Democratic voters, this is the final chance for our reps to actually do the will of their supporters or there will surely be severe back lash.

[ruggerson]

99. Thank you

and what some don't realize is that THIS particular appointment is not the one that puts Roe in jeopardy. Roe still has five votes, as Kennedy has already voted to uphold it.

This is depressing and a setback for everyone's rights as American citizens, to be sure. Alito will be as awful on the bench as we imagine he will be.

But this is not the end of the world and it is not the most important vote of even the last five years.

And, frankly, this is what happens when we lose Presidential elections. If we want to start swinging the judiciary back, learn how to get A DEMOCRAT ELECTED PRESIDENT.

And if anyone gives me the standard "but we won't win, because they own Diebold" bullshit, I will smack them.

[cosmicdot]

114. but, they do own Diebold ... so, go ahead and smack me ... n/m

[robbedvoter]

120. Great minds ...nice agreeing with you again!

:hi:

[ruggerson]

139. Go toward the light... see the dancing ponys..... n/t

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[insane_cratic_gal]

100. The inability of Democratic Party to grow its base?

you mean listen to it's base?

I know you wouldn't be reffering to the amazing amount votes cast in this past election. I'd say thanks Asshat the base is larger then ever. All they need to do is listen to it.

[buddysmellgood]

101. Okay everybody, let's all just ROLL OVER again for the umteenth time.

[Triana]

103. other battles will be LOST if the President has "unitary Executive"

power. This is the crux of all the rest. The Supreme Court is the LAST legal voice and has the LAST WORD on the law in this country. If it is stacked with extremeists and bu$h cronies who think their Republican Godfather should be all-powerful to the exclusion of all other branches and they support that - then everything else, all other issues, are already LOST.

[Nutmegger]

104. We can't do anything when / if Alito is on the bench

Illegal Wiretaps, that's enough to fight.

I don't care if the filibuster is sustained. We need to fight back and show the country that we oppose this nomination. Point blank.

[IronLionZion]

107. oh man, fuck this shit

no, it's not all the dramatic bullshit the latte liberals are crying about. Those drama queens do this for every issue every time. Some will even threaten to move to Canada and never log on to DU again. poor babies...

But it is important to light a fire under the party's ass to get things moving and keep people awake. We have to shout bloody murder because the special interest money speaks pretty damn loud.

Sometimes a swift kick in the ass will get the donkey moving faster than a friendly helping hand.

Of course we'll still vote for Dems instead of Repubs. But don't say that too loudly or the momentum will slow.

You don't sound very perky to me. j/k

[robbedvoter]

108. What is the most important vote? What are they saving the fillibuster for?

When will that magic moment that matters come in your fantasy land?

[Jim Sagle]

109. Chickenshit bullshit.

[The Onyx Key]

111. Good post, Perky. The filibuster never had a chance.

Unfortunately, there will be some very disappointed people here at DU when the confirm happens, and I hope it doesn't push them over the edge. We need every Dem we've got!!

This country is resilient and will survive this. I don't buy the "Sky Is Falling" hype.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

112. Thanks so much, now kick us again please. n/t

[Anita Garcia]

113. Moronic to you, but not to me.

My rights AND yours are worth fighting for.

[cosmicdot]

116. I disagree

interesting the few who do agree ... not surprised at who do ...

[The Onyx Key]

119. Preach on, cosmicdot! You tell us all about it! n/t

[Binka]

133. What Is Your Trip?

First you cheer the OP because the filibuster "never had a chance." Now here you are complimenting cosmicdot as he is calling the OP out as a fraud and his supporters to be the Usual Suspects. Don't have the gig down quite yet?

A bit new on A Democratic Board to be openly siding with a poster who has a somewhat shaky position on an issue that 99% of people in this thread disagree with. Enjoy DU.

[The Onyx Key]

140. It's called sarcasm! Enjoy it. I have no knowledge

of the poster's rep, and I assumed the other comment was a slam on me. My bad if it was not.

And so what if I'm new? Not entitled to my opinion yet?

[zulchzulu]

117. A war has many fronts...and this is indeed a war to save the Constitution

You're right that there are other battles to fight...but the ability to filibuster Alito is utterly needed.

Letting Alito slide in without a fight is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE.

[fujiyama]

123. Let's assumee

that this vote isn't the most importtant vote in a quarter century.

Give me a potential vote that will be? Thee single potentiaaal vote I can see more significant is over Stevens...

But thta's about it. Right now, this vote is the culmination of almost a half decade of RW tenacity - this is thehe takeover - or bringing them just to thte edge of that takeeover. Kennedy is thehe only one that isn't quite on board with everything thhey want.

Right now, leet's see...Thhis deteermines everything and will shape Americans' lives in ways we don't yet know. The right hass clearly known this. Many who claim to be dems sitting in the senate are cyncically viewing this as just another vote. Many supposedly liberal senators did tthe same with Roberts and foolishly I will add.

There's no excuse this time. Thhis guy hasn't even shown thhe appearaancee of imparttiality and the aability to rule in a just and judicious manner.

[Fovea]

125. Look-- Here comes the clue bus.

The first three things under the wheels of SCOTUS with Alito.

1. Roe V. Wade

2. The last tattered bits of the 4th amendment not taken down in the war on some drugs.

3. Right to die in the few locales that support it.

All of these things will require an explicit amendment to the constitution guaranteeing the right of privacy to restore.

4. the 8th amendment.
Losing it will mean that we become an official pariah state, little better than the 'axis of evil.'

And other minor detail of American jurisprudence like Habeas Corpus will take an extended vacation.

Yes, virtually every bit of your post *was* moronic, IMO.

[pat_k]

126. Our Constitution has been in Breach since Jan 6th, 2001

. . .Alito is another step in their consolidation of power.

Yes, Virginia, it is the end of our constitutional democracy (until we Restore Legitimate Authority by forcing Bush, Cheney, and their co-conspirators throughout the government out of office, and punish them for their crimes.

Alito is emblematic of unlimited executive power. The fight against him is part and parcel of the fight against the ever-expanding dictatorial powers claimed by the Bush regime.

[liberalpress]

128. OK.. here's the deal...

We lost, the vote was stolen from us, whatever. The thing is THEY are in charge, they have the power, they have the majority and we don't... so, for the time being, they get what they want. That's how it works. But voting machine fixes are only good if the margin is close... things get too far out of whack and even the non-believers get religion.

Our job this year is to vote in November. Start registering your friends and neighbors, now. Get an appointment on their calendars to vote .. drive 'em to the polls if necessary.

A filibuster is a pipe dream and when all is said and done, Sam Alito is stil Mr. Justice.

Pray that the rest of the judges enjoy good health til 2008.

Then make sure by your actions as expressed above, we aren't put in this position again.

[pat_k]

141. So, you won't mind if I regularly raid your bank account.. . .

. . .Instead of exposing my crime and getting me fired from my position at your Bank, you'd just get a second job and try to deposit enough money to absorb whatever I might decide to steal.

=================

When someone responsible for protecting your stuff starts stealing it, you expose their crime, get them fired so they can't keep doing it, and see that they are punished.

Our job as citizens is no different.

When our election officials fail to give us trustworthy election processes that ensure every citizen equal opportunity to cast their votes and have them accurately counted, we get them fired. If we have evidence of crimes, we accuse them. If they are guilty, we see that they are punished.

When our elected officials abuse our trust, we fire them (impeach them) so they can't keep doing it. If we have evidence of crimes, we accuse them. If they are guilty, we see that they are punished.

[tavalon]

132. Two questions

How female are you and how old are you? If you are male and under 40, you really have no idea nor much title to this opinion.

OTOH, if you've had a back alley abortion and septicemia or held your girlfriend as she died from aforementioned septicemia, then this opinion of yours holds much more validity.

[Strawman]

136. Yeah, why not? That strategy worked for Brave Sir Robin

[Heewack]

138. Well stated.

You list several things that ARE very important, namely growing the base. Unlike some here who want to toss out the DLC'ers and perceived DINO's we need to grow the party, not make it smaller with ideological purists.

If they fillibuster it will last all of ten minutes. The nuke option is used and Alito gets his confirmation vote anyway and we lose the ability to fillibuster other nominees that may not have the votes Alito has. What are we left with? Some sort of symbolic 10 minute "hoo-ray... we stood up to evil?" It makes no sense to me.

Of course no fillibuster now has people claiming no more money, no more help with elections. That really helps.

[Vektor]

144. Um, it wouldn't be "bound to fail" if all Democrats would

actually ACT LIKE FUCKING DEMOCRATS, and vote NO and support a filibuster of one of the most archaic, extremist, right-wing ideologues to ever come down the pike and threaten our Democracy.

The only thing "moronic" is the fact that ANY DEMOCRAT worth the paper their voter registration card is printed on would even have to give this a second thought.

How ANY DEMOCRAT or even moderate Republican could vote for Nazilito is a complete mystery.

And yeah, besides the vote I cast in the stolen election of 2004, this IS the most important vote cast in a VERY LONG TIME.

Alito being confirmed will turn back the clock in this country 100's of years.

Edited to add: Are you just messing with us, or do you seriously not get it?

[eggman67]

155. Actually it would be

Even if every single Dem in the Senate voted no to cloture with the Battle Hymn of the Republic playing in the background, 5 minutes later Alito would be confirmed.

I'm not saying don't fight the battle, I'm just saying it's not a good idea to think this confirmation can actually be stopped - it can't. The fight now it a political and PR fight, nothing more.

[Vektor]

156. Says you...

Wonder why?

And it's horse shit to suggest that this is merely a political and PR fight. It's clearly a fight to defend our nation against tyranny, extremism, and a destructive radical right wing agenda. Only the RW would feel compelled to suggest it is about anything other than that. Any person who does not support the right's extremist agenda knows what this fight is all about. Those who DO likely know as well, and are just playing stupid. Our Senators have explained their positions enough times during this debate to where it's crystal clear what we are fighting here, and why.

Seriously, what parts of anti-choice, anti-civil rights, pro-strip searching of children, pro-SHOOTING of children who steal purses, pro-absolute, unchecked executive power do you not get? Politics, my ass. It's about defending America as we know it. It's about principle.

There are no absolutes. There are plenty of things that can be made to happen when determined people set their minds to it. I refuse to embrace fatalism and defeatism just because it will make the Repukes and their sympathizers squirm a little less.

[AntiFascist]

148. Senators Kerry and Kennedy have taken a very brave stand....

and in case you haven't read their DKos postings or listened to their speeches, they have explained very well why the filibuster IS extremely important. Many DUers and the DU admin have done the same, as witnessed by this new GD:Alito forum. I wouldn't try to piss on this battle.

[Moochy]

150. The sky isnt falling?

Ok good, I guess i can go back to my sudoku practice.

[Totally Committed]

151. You are obviously not aware how much the SCOTUS effects every aspect

of our lives every day, and could even effect how and who we vote for, how much freedome we continue to have or not have, when and who can take us to war, and aamny other things.

Hell... in 2000 it decided who the POTUS was for us.

Not important? The outcome of this vote will be as important as the outcome of the last two POTUS elections, and because they are lifetime appointments, will effect this country for a generation or more.

TC

[Moochy]

152. "This is not the most important vote of the last half century"

"These are not the droids you are looking for.." waves left hand in the jedi fashion.

[Warren DeMontague]

153. Hey Perky-

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[FogerRox]

154. "W" stands for WHATEVER

SHUT THE SENATE DOWN