Ok, ONCE AND FOR ALL FILIBUSTER AND CLOTURE CLARIFICATION

[Beetwasher]

The burden regarding a filibuster is on those who want CLOTURE. It's NOT on the Senators supporting a filibuster. The Repubs need to scrape up 60 votes FOR CLOTURE. They need 60 "yes" votes FOR cloture. Theoretically a filibuster can be sustained w/ out a single vote against cloture ("no" vote) as long as the other side doesn't have the 60 "yes" votes FOR cloture. Every Dem Senator can abstain from voting on cloture and the filibuster can continue as long as the Repubs don't get 60 votes for cloture.

The reason this is significant is that it is certainly possible that someone who may vote for Alito may ALSO abstain in the cloture vote(or vote against cloture for that matter).

Additionally, the Nuke option is a completely separate issue. By voting FOR cloture you are NOT supporting the Nuke option. That would be an entirely separate issue that would arise ONLY if the Repubs FAIL to get 60 votes for cloture.

[Avalux]

1. Are our Dems playing a game of cat and mouse?

Because that sure is what it seems like to me. I hope I'm not giving them too much credit, but they've definitely got something up their sleeve.

[MADem]

4. Seems like that to me, too.....! n/t

[CountAllVotes]

9. kick!!!!

Kicking it up for the word FILLIBUSTER!!!!!!

[Baconfoot]

2. Thanks. That was clear and succinct. :-) NT

[yodermon]

3. kick

bcz i think people's heads are exploding around here.

[BuyingThyme]

5. By BURDEN, do you mean THREE FIFTHS?

Synonyms?

[Beetwasher]

7. By Burden I Mean They Need 60 Votes FOR Cloture

The votes against cloture are essentially irrelevant, it's the amount votes FOR cloture that matter and it's the people who want cloture who have the burden of reaching the 60 vote level needed for cloture.

[BuyingThyme]

11. Yes, sixty is three fifths. Thank you.

[Beetwasher]

12. Yeah, Mathematically Challenged Here

n/t

[jean]

14. respectfully, it's 'filibuster' - with just one 'L'

[Beetwasher]

15. Spelling Challenged Too!

n/t

[unblock]

19. point of clarification: 3/5 of ALL members or 3/5 of members PRESENT?

i.e., is it ALWAYS 60 votes (given that the size of the senate is 100 members) OR is it 3/5 of members PRESENT, meaning that if some democrats are back home or otherwise unavailable, could the banana republicans muster a cloture victory with, say, only 48 of 80 members present (with 20 democrats caught napping)?

the practical difference is that if it's 3/5 of members PRESENT, then the filibustering democrats can't stray too far from washington in case the banana republicans try to pull a fast one and call a cloture vote what the democrats are out of town.

all that being said, i think they need 48 hours between the call for a cloture vote and the cloture vote itself, but that's a whole nother question.

[Beetwasher]

20. Always 60 Votes, 3/5 of All Member, Period.

n/t

[unblock]

22. some history (it wasn't always this way)

between 1917 and 1949, it was 2/3 of members present.
between 1949 and 1959, it was 2/3 of all members.
between 1959 and 1975, it was 2/3 of members present AND VOTING.
between 1975 and today, it is 3/5 of all members.

[thereismore]

6. Shit I can't take this anymore. The suspense is killing me. Kerry help! nt

[EFerrari]

8. Thanks for this!

:)

[Marnieworld]

10. Say it with me:NO FURTHER!

K & R
NGU!
Keep hope alive!

[Beetwasher]

13. NO FURTHER!!!

:thumbsup:

[lonestarnot]

16. NO FURTHER!

:*

[WI_DEM]

17. The key is to get the Dems who vote "No" on Alito but are

not sure about a filibuster to allow the filibuster.

[Beetwasher]

18. And Even The Dems That Vote "Yes" Can Abstain

from the cloture vote. We need to pressure Byrd for instance to abstain on the cloture vote.

I can't see any Dem who votes against Alito voting FOR cloture. I would think they would at least abstain from the vote (I would HOPE!). A "yes" vote for cloture would negate their "no" vote on Alito. Voting "yes" on cloture should be considered support of Alito.

At the same time, I'm willing to forgive even the Dems that vote "yes" on Alito, as long as they at least abstain from the cloture vote.

[eyepaddle]

29. Yes, that is the critical mstter, I don't care if a few vote

for Alito--as long as they do not vote for Cloture. Well, to be more honest, I would hope they all vote against Alito, but can look past that if they do not support cloture.

Voting for cloture, and then voting against Alito would be enough to nearly make my head explode in rage though.

[Coexist]

21. Kick

[jenndar]

23. K&R

[Gelliebeans]

24. Thanks Beet

I am sure glad you are around! ;) This is very important to remember especially when some are thinking of throwing in the towel.

peace
gb

[Beetwasher]

25. My Pleasure!

:hi:

[Beetwasher]

26. Kick

n/t

[PDittie]

27. Kick and Recommending

Thanks, Beets.

[Beetwasher]

28. No Problem

n/t

[dh1760]

30. According to AP: Republicans Clear the Way for Alito Vote

Actually, this is according to the NY POST (I know, I know, ...). Their AP Breaking News scroll has the above headline linked to a story that claims:

"Democrats and Republicans both said that the 55-year-old conservative jurist will get more than the 60 votes need to cut off debate on the Senate floor Monday. "Next Tuesday, a bipartisan majority will vote to confirm Judge Alito as Justice Alito," said Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn."

The full story is here:
http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynamic/stories/A/ALITO?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME

I say "claims", because I checked the AP Breaking News page on TBO (which, to my knowledge is the most often cited AP newswire site), and there is no such story.

So, take the above with a grain of salt, but the story is out there.

By the way, this is my first post. I've been reading DU for a while, but I'm not as well versed politically as most DU members, so I haven't wanted to wade into the deep end. However, if true, the above is something that I felt was disturbing enough to warrant posting.

[Beetwasher]

32. Don't Believe What You Read, Especially in the NY Post

The source for that claim is Bill "Inside Trader, Whiny Mama's Boy" Frist.

[LiberalAndProud]

31. .