This is when I have trouble with my opposition to the death penalty

[trumad]

JACKSONVILLE -- Danny Harold Rolling, the state's most notorious serial killer since Ted Bundy, was ``remarkably calm'' as he awaited his execution for the grisly 1990 slayings of five college students in Gainesville, his attorney said Tuesday.

Rolling, 52, is scheduled to die at 6 p.m. Wednesday for a reign of terror that paralyzed Gainesville as the University of Florida's fall semester was beginning.

<snip>
The students' bodies, some mutilated, posed and sexually assaulted, were found over a three-day period in August and September 1990. The killing spree touched off a massive manhunt, causing students to cower in fear and purchase weapons as the killer remained unidentified.

<snip>
Sonja Larson, 18, and Christina Powell, 17, were stabbed to death on a Sunday afternoon in 1990, in a townhouse just off the University of Florida campus. Christa Hoyt, who had been decapitated, was found the next morning in her isolated duplex; and Tracy Paules and Manny Taboada, 23, were discovered dead a day later at Gatorwood Apartments.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-1024rollingexecution,0,5193969.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

[rodeodance]

1. give him hard labor the rest of his life. Too much killing already.

[ThomCat]

3. I agree. Work his ass of for 40 years.

Killing him does no good. x(

[originalpckelly]

2. The only reason I would ever be against it is uncertainty...

but I don't doubt there are some circumstances when it can be done because of the vast amount of evidence.

The thing is that it is a more humane treatment than forcing someone to have a meaningless existence for the rest of their life. But on the other hand it is irreversible.

[TAPat]

4. For me it's when the victim is a child

or when a child witnesses the murder and then is left with their dead parent/caretaker.

I just want those types to *disappear* :(

[Cygnusx2112]

5. I don't really have a problem with the death penalty...

especially if there is NO question as to guilt and the crime is heinous enough.

Put the dog down.

May I ask why your opposition?

[trumad]

8. Because it's an imperfect system.

One innocent person wrongly accused and executed is one to many... mho

[aquart]

21. Always true.

Then we'd better work on our justice system.

Because some need to fry. Have we ever executed a senator? Congressman? Is there a good reason why not?

[ieoeja]

25. Over 50% of death row convictions overturned.

In Illinois a group decided to research every case on death row and, if warranted, appeal the case. In over 50% of the cases they were able to get the conviction overturned. While a handful were overturned on technicalities, the vast majority were overturned after proving the convicts' innocence (usually via DNA).

I am sure the people who voted "guilty" had "NO question" when they did so.

I was an unwavering death penalty supporter. I am actually somewhat ashamed to admit that I continued supporting it right up until that group topped the 50% mark. Something about the MAJORITY of death row inmates being wrongfully convicted finally woke me up to the wrongness of this practice.

Of course, this is Illinois. I'm sure in more liberal places like Texas they are are much more careful.
:sarcasm:

[Cygnusx2112]

32. I meant "No Question" like the guy admitted to multiple killings

or something along those lines.

Certainly there can still be questions in a jury conviction.

[arcane1]

6. death is too good for him

let him rot in prison like an animal, tormented by his crimes

[pnb]

15. Won't work

Guys like this aren't tormented by their crimes. As long as they have an audience to brag to about them, they are happy campers. I've got no problem with someone like that being dead.

[chefgirl]

17. Exactly my position

People like this dont deserve the 'easy' way out.

They should be made to sit in a cell for the rest of their natural lives, with nothing but basic food and water. No television, no visitors, no books, no radio, NOTHING but their thoughts to keep them company till they rot to death.

Killing is wrong, no matter if its the gov't or an individual doing it. Besides, its simply not punishment enough.

-chef-

[wicket]

31. Well put

n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

36. I agree!

They should be provided with the basics to human survival, conjugal visits and others are not required for survival, nor is TV, a gym, books, or anything else, except FOOD, WATER, CLOTHING, and SHELTER!

[arcane1]

43. "easy way out" indeed!!!!

:toast:

[bluestateguy]

7. I think Skilling should have been executed

this guy too, of course.

[trumad]

9. At least the folks Skilling ripped off still have their heads.

[Jed Dilligan]

29. I disagree.

I think Skilling should be executed, and this guy, not. Cage him up and let him suffer. The wacko serial-killers generally welcome death and love the attention of a DP trial.

People who kill are generally irrational. The threat of execution will not stop them from killing. White-collar criminals and the corrupt government officials who help them are rational. Execution would be a serious deterrent to their actions.

[Chomp]

10. OP

Stick with your opposition. No case should change it.

[trumad]

14. Oh I am... it's just tough sometimes..

[Timmy5835]

11. Once you're dead you're dead.....

.....game over. Punishment over. I like life without parole in a Supermax. For the inmate, death would be better.

[nickinSTL]

12. I'm not strong pro- or anti- death penalty...

but, I think IF it is to be maintained, delivering a death sentence should require a higher burden of proof.

I don't know if it's legally feasible, but IMO, the conviction for the crime should remain "beyond reasonable doubt", but a death sentence should require "beyond a shadow of a doubt".

:shrug:

[johnnie]

13. They executed one here today in Ohio

"LUCASVILLE, Ohio - Ohio executed a religious cult leader Tuesday for murdering a family of five followers who were taken one at a time to a barn, bound and shot to death. The youngest was a girl just 7 years old.


Jeffrey Lundgren, 56, died by injection at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility.

"I profess my love for God, my family, for my children, for Kathy (his wife). I am because you are," Lundgren said in his final statement."

<snip>

"Upset by what he saw as a lack of faith, Lundgren arranged a dinner hosted by cult members. Afterward, he and his followers led the family members one by one — the father first, young Karen last — to their deaths while the others unknowingly cleaned up after dinner.

Lundgren shot each victim two or three times while a running chain saw muffled the sound of the gunfire.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061024/ap_on_re_us/ohio_execution




This guy was a piece of shit. I think I recall that he shot the youngest a second time to see if he could shot in the same hole.

He tried to stop his execution claiming it was inhumane.

I'm not for the death penalty, but like you.. there are times when I question myself.

Here is the family he slaughtered. The little one just gets me

[Hulsey13]

20. If anyone ever deserved to die...

I'm against the unfair way the death penalty is applied in this country, but I am only human. I could be the executioner for this person and sleep like a baby the same night.

[HughBeaumont]

37. Lundgren deserved to be guillotined.

Sorry, no opposition here for someone who has his associates lead a 7-year-old to a barn via piggyback, shoots her in the skull and chest and dumps her in a pit on top of the four members of the family he'd already bound and killed.

This was her last memory. An innocent moment, and then grisliness, nightmares and greusome death.

Fuck this bastard. You kill a kid in cold blood, you deserve the pink juice.

And this is coming from someone who wants Joe D'Ambrosio released from Ohio's Death row. And from prison. Joe's case illustrates how flawed the justice system is and how corrupt some prosecutors are. As is Anthony Apantovich's.

You CAN be selective about who you want executed. It's your right.

[mvd]

16. If I did believe in it, he would deserve it

But I'm consistently against the death penalty. I put aside my disgust to do what I think is best for society: to stop the cycle of killing. I used to be for it in extreme cases, but it's a position I changed on.

[sharp_stick]

18. I've been a Death Penalty fence sitter for a long time

I go one way then another, Danny Rolling is the poster boy for the death penalty. I will not be sad the day he shuffles off.

My main opposition to it comes from the knowledge that we could get the wrong guy. Too many people have been released from death row for my comfort.

I've come to the conclusion that as long as they can't get out, no compassion releases just before death or anything, they die in their cell or the prison hospital. Then we are better off with them locked up forever.

[Book Lover]

19. So you are OK with giving the state the power to decide who lives and who dies?

I would suggest you set aside your visceral distaste for this man's acts and look at the bigger picture. Is it a correct function of the state to kill its citizens? Everything I want from my government is incompatible with that power.

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. But what about those who are wrongly convicted and executed?

That is why I am against the death penalty. I can't have it both ways. Imprison them, life in prison is a death sentence itself. Those wrongly convicted and sentenced to death , hopefully will be set free and not executed, the others will spend the rest of their life in prison.

[jhrobbins]

23. The problem with a life sentence is that it is often not that...

If they can guarantee that an individual will, in fact, stay in prison for life, then there should be no question. I am against the death penalty, but I am afriad of our legal system's ability to maintain a standard of fairness in sentencing and sentence maintenence.

[Rabrrrrrr]

34. Well, ya gotta let the murderers and rapists go free to make room for the

drug users, especially the casually using weekend drug users who earned their mandatory 30 years to life sentence by having almost a whole ounce of marijuana.

:eyes:

I'm with you - life sentence for murder should mean life sentence. Not 7 years and then parole because the jail is overcrowded and we need to make room for lesser criminals who get more severe punishments.

[jhrobbins]

41. Well, that starts me on a whole new rant... I think that it is ...

extraordinarily hypocritical of the powers that be to criminalize the use of small amounts of marijuana and not pursue the 'drug' that is the cause of extraordinary suffering - alcohol. THis drug causes families to break up, makes parents abuse their children, spouses to abuse one another, causes un-tolled mayhem on our highways, etc., etc., etc. I know that prohibition didn't work because too many people wanted this drug and I suppose we can hopefully, in the future learn to use it wisely (not gonna happen in my lifetime), but to demonize marijuana with the drug alcohol causing all of the above is unbelievably ridiculous. It's just the the marijuana lobby doesn't have the power or money that the alcohol lobby has.

[Union Thug]

24. The knowledge that innocent people have been put to death...

is what keeps me anti-death penalty.

Sure, the guy is a worthless waste of skin. However, my disgust with this person does not justify the possibility of the state taking an innocent life.

Besides, if I were given a choice between death and a life time in a federal penetentiary - I would choose death. Not much is worse than the prospect of sitting in a cell block for the rest of one's life.

[SmokingJacket]

26. In some magic world, we could say "Only for those who deserve it"

But in the real world, it doesn't work out that way.

Anyway, killing is wrong. Furthermore, it's loathesome.

[Ezlivin]

27. Keep him alive and let's feed off his brain

Instead of killing him and losing the ability to try to understand these types of people, we should keep him alive and learn as much about him as possible.

His incarceration would be solitary with no contact with the media or any ability to sell books, his life story, etc. He would undergo a steady stream of tests from psychologists and mental health professionals.

Don't kill him—turn him into a lab rat for our safety.

[Selatius]

28. My opposition to the death penalty is rooted in my principles

Who am I to determine who gets to live and who gets to die? Is this not the same determination the murderer had taken when he killed when one strips away the veneer of justice to reveal revenge? It is not for me to deal death. I'm just a man, not a god.

I don't believe in revenge. I don't believe in an "eye for an eye." I believe in forgiveness and atonement, but I don't believe in forgetting what happened either.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

30. I'm anti-death penalty for the most part.

I think we need to keep it around though for extreme circumstances, such as someone advocating for hate crimes to continue from his/her jail cell. The last thing we need is to give a lunatic all the free time in the world to spread his hatred.

Like I said though, it'd have to be pretty extreme for me to want to apply the death penalty.

[mvd]

33. Jails with no communication to the outside

That's what we need. I see the reasons some support it, but I just don't believe in the DP. Even if it costs me as a taxpayer money, I don't mind paying it, because I believe we should help the poor get shelter and food a lot more.

[hlthe2b]

35. I can relate: this is the recent one that makes me question..

Murderer who said he was prophet is executed
Ohio cult leader was found guilty of killing couple and their daughte

IRTLAND, Ohio - Ohio executed a religious cult leader Tuesday for the murder of a family of five followers who were taken one at a time to a barn, bound and shot to death. The youngest was a girl just 7 years old.

Jeffrey Lundgren, 56, died by injection at 10:26 a.m. at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility for the deaths of the Avery family.
--snip--

The evidence against Lundgren was compelling.

Upset by what he thought was the Avery family’s lack of faith, arranged a dinner hosted by cult members. Afterward, he and his followers led the Averys one by one — the father first, young Karen last — to their deaths while the others unknowingly cleaned up after dinner. A chain saw was used to muffle the gunfire.

'I can in fact talk to God'
Lundgren argued at his trial in 1990 that he was prophet of God and therefore not worthy of the death penalty. --snip--

Lundgren was careful to make sure no one would be looking for the Averys. Before the murders, he directed Cheryl Avery to write to her family and inform them that they were moving to Wyoming and would provide contact information when they got settled.

The case was cracked eight months later when a dissident cult member, upset that his wife had been selected to become Lundgren’s second wife, tipped off authorities. On Jan. 4, 1990, the bodies were found.

Thirteen cult members were charged in the case, including Lundgren’s wife, Alice, now 55, and their son, Damon, now 35, both serving life prison terms.

--more--


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15398559/

[irislake]

38. Get over it

Why do so many Americans want revenge? Killing is wrong period. Or so the rest of the "civilized" world believes. I know you are not one of the blood thirsty but I will never forget the terrible day the U.S. executed Timothy McVeigh. All the major networks had a count-down. Unbelievable! Like a public execution that was being relished like the old-time lynchings. Folks in Canada, most of us, found it deeply repugnant and difficult to understand. Why does revenge give you closure?

[irislake]

39. The Almish got it right

[cali]

40. Great way to respond to the OP.

Not. I too am anti-death penalty but the line that killing is wrong period is actually rather thoughtless. I'm sure you don't think killing in self-defense is wrong. And that is killing. I'm against the death penalty on a gut level, but I don't think that everyone who supports it is merely blood thirsty and out for revenge.

[Mendocino]

42. If the death penalty were effective,

wouldn't we be executing fewer people instead of more?