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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 08:52 AM
Original message
The United States of America!

Yes, US, the U.S.

A nation once beloved and respected both at home and abroad, once idolized as much as it was idealistic (but realistically so), was one we could be proud of with just cause. This was true for many reasons but none were more important than America's humane treatment of foreign enemy troops when they became POWs in our care.

Once we were a nation so well known for its compassionate handling of prisoners of war that opposing soldiers realizing they were facing defeat would make a determined effort to surrender to U.S. troops instead of to our allies with whom good treatment was not as certain. It's a matter of record that this happened during WWII, but it's worth noting that as recently as 1991 and the first Gulf War, Iraqi fighters also opted to surrender to Americans.

The reputation of the United States on this score was so strong up until that desert war ordered by George W. Bush's father, GHW Bush, that we all witnessed amazing scenes captured on camera by embedded reporters ... scenes of Iraqi soldiers surrendering en masse to our astonished soldiers -- and even to American reporters! Clearly, Iraqi troops believed their best chance of not only surviving but also being fed well, housed decently, and having their wounds treated by medics or doctors lay in becoming POWs of the Americans.

We should recall as well that many German POWs -- those who had been housed in camps within U.S. borders during WWII and who were very well treated by our government and our citizens for the duration -- chose at the war's end to remain here and seek to become citizens of the nation that had shown them respect and unexpected common decency.

The German POWs were the benefactors of official United States Government policy at the time. These policies and rules went even beyond those of the Geneva Conventions! In their understanding of the sensible wisdom of considerate handling of one's enemies, the U.S. officials responsible for those policies demonstrated a remarkable grasp of the most basic needs of all human beings, the responsibility of our nation to "practice what we preach" as a victor which laid claim to being "the good guys," and the likely positive results of recognizing one's foes as humans, not masses of vicious animals or psychopaths.

Many of these German POWs expressed tearful gratitude to America both for how they were cared for as POWs and for our country's part in restoring the world to sanity and balance, even though that meant great harm had come to many of their own family members in the last months of the war inside Germany. Those POWs, having been far removed for some time from the influence of Nazis, recognized it was Hitler and his jackbooted thugs who were responsible for the perversion of Germany's government and people and so for the bitter price they had to pay -- the devastation that came to their homeland because Hitler never ceased ordering all Germans to "resist" and to fight to the death.


From being this kind of America, with a well-earned and longstanding reputation for compassion and honorable behavior toward its enemies once they were captured, to becoming a nation which passes laws to permit torture of any foreign enemy combatants "or those who materially support them" -- all during one American President's few short years in office!

From respect and honor around the world and a reputation as a superpower that does not use its technology to confuse and spy on its own citizens or its military might to abuse others, to being a lying bully that decides unilaterally to detain whomever it pleases indefinitely and without access to anyone who might witness torture or murder.

Thank you very much, George W. Bush, for how "safe" you have made us all!

Before this President took control of its military, court systems, and media, America was a nation I was very proud of and grateful to live in. I never dreamed it could be any other way.

Not any more. Now I'm wondering if it's safe or wise to live here at all and if I will still be free tomorrow! I know for sure that any non-citizens living here are not safe from endless secret detention and grave physical and emotional harm at the hands of my government. Why would any of us be foolish enough to believe we could not be next on this administration's list of undesirables?


The above covers the changes this administration has made in our government's treatment of enemy soldiers; but the U.S. -- and its military especially -- was at one time equally deserving of a reputation for treating humanely everyone from an individual foreign child needing lifesaving surgery in America to masses of starving, beleaguered civilians in wartorn regions. Now, however, I have little doubt that many people around the world are avoiding visiting the United States simply as the civilians and tourists they are, for fear of what could happen to them here at the hands of a psychotically paranoid American administration!

After all, with no discernible conscience and now almost no restraint by law on their lust to destroy human life on their quest for dominion, this President and his supporters and minions can NOT be expected to curb their own willfully violent natures. Why would they? Apparently the people of this country, through their "duly elected" representatives in Congress, have officially released them from any responsibility to behave humanely!


So I am ashamed -- terribly ashamed, and somewhat anxious and restive as well. For certain I am deeply concerned that the United States of America I once knew and loved so much is now an entirely different country. Now the U.S.A. is truly feared and passionately loathed by many millions throughout the world who see us as a threat to freedom and justice everywhere -- and again it is with just cause.

For the transformation of my country in the last five years to the pariah it is now is due almost entirely to the decisions made by this administration to change us from a humane, responsible nation with great power to protect the innocent and defend genuine freedom in the world to a lying, greedy, autocratic and dangerous neighbor to anyone this Republican administration doesn't agree with or favor.

This criminal clan seeks world dominion. It is driven to gain a global empire with no challengers. And those in power in America right now do not care who or how many they have to lie to, threaten, turture or murder in order to get what they want.

I cannot think of any state of affairs more depressing or more conducive to peril for everyone who dwells on this planet. "My" United States of America as I described her above seems to be very quickly passing from view -- but certainly not from memory!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note: The paragraph below was posted at DU by NNN0LHI this past Sunday in an excerpt from an Asia Times Online article. Regarding the evidence of rampant torture in Baghdad alone we have the following grim report.


Precise numbers are obviously in short supply on this one, but large numbers of bodies are found in and around the capital every single day, a result of the roiling civil war already under way there. These bodies ... commonly display a variety of signs of torture, including "gouged-out eyeballs, wounds in the head and genitals, broken bones of legs and hands, electric and cigarette burns ... acid-induced injuries and burns caused by chemical substances, missing skin ... missing teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails". The UN's chief anti-torture expert, Manfred Nowak, believes that torture in Iraq is now not only "totally out of hand" but "worse" than under dictator Saddam Hussein.


The DU thread where I first read this is here,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2345140

and here is a link to the Asia Times Online article -- which I highly recommend to everyone. (No registration is required.)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ05Ak02.html

The title of this article is

DISPATCHES FROM AMERICA
Twenty-one reasons Iraq is not working
By Tom Engelhardt

Within the article is a good descriptive paragraph of its purpose and content:

So what exactly does "victory" in Bush's Iraq look like 1,288 days after the invasion of that country began with a "shock and awe" attack on downtown Baghdad? A surprising amount of information related to this has appeared in the press in recent weeks, but in purely scattershot form. Here, it's all brought together in 21 questions (and answers) that add up to a grim but realistic snapshot of Bush's Iraq. The attempt to reclaim the capital, dipped in a sea of blood in recent months - or the "battle of Baghdad", as the US administration likes to term it - is now the center of administration military strategy and operations.


This was one of those threads at DU which sank out of sight before enough people saw it and responded to keep it kicked, but I urge anyone reading this to also go read that full article at the Asia Times Online! The 21 questions format is excellent and the overview and history of Bush's war in Iraq makes it very easy to follow the summary laid out by the writer. It's a long read, but I hope many people make some time for it and think long and hard about what it reveals.


Finally, I have a few questions to ask, too -- all rhetorical, but all very important.

Does the above quote detailing the condition of dumped bodies in and around Baghdad indicate that the United States military in that country condones a lot of this torture and murder going on under their noses? Could our own troops be participating in some of it, or teaching militia members methods of "information extraction" from citizens, or perhaps learning new methods of torture from such militias?

Could we wake up in America in the not-too-far-distant future to find that these methods are being employed in our own country -- or by our military or intelligence operatives in secret prisons elsewhere, used on foreign captives and U.S. citizens alike?

Is is even remotely possible that historians will look back on this entire period from 2000 to 2006 in America and the world, survey the evidence of power grabs, of election fraud, of abuse of trust, of blatant lies and dirty tricks, and of pervasive criminal activities by this administration, and note that Americans were as tragically wronged by this "leader" as the German people were by Hitler in the 1930's?

And worst of all, is it possible that some day when the Bush government IS history and all of the darkest secrets that have been so well kept thanks to a compliant media and an incurious population are at long last revealed, will we find that there really isn't a lot of difference in the activities at America's hidden detention camps and the ones Hitler used for years to hide his shocking crimes?

What will the headlines look like then?

How will the world view us then, and how will we feel about ourselves?

Don't we care enough to do something about the danger before the damage gets much, much worse?




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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. BushCo has done more harm to this country than . . .
any administration in history -- or any event in history (including the Civil War) . . .

the damage done to America's reputation as a beacon of justice and decency is incalculable . . . and unforgiveable . . . and criminal . . .

if we survive as a nation, someone is going to have to pay for this . . . probably a lot of someones . . .
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "... if we survive as a nation..."
Now there's a thought that sends chills down the spine!

I wonder if most of us have even considered such a possibility? That if this administration fails and falls at some point (which is inevitable, I would think) but it takes intervention by other powerful nations to stop it, the U.S. might well be broken up into pieces and parceled out to those countries?

So many unthinkable, almost unimagineable scenarios that are now forcing their way into our consciousness. I guess it's just so difficult for some of us to grasp the very real potential for utter devastation coming to OUR shores as a result of letting this criminal administration have their way for so long.


I love your sigline quote by Chief Seattle, btw. Had a book way back in the Sixties or early Seventies called Touch The Earth, which was a collection of insightful and often sad comments and observations by Native Americans.

Sometimes I think of the wonderful gifts and resources of these early Americans and how they were wasted, and it sickens me. Their words of wisdom seem all the more appropriate today as we contemplate the possibility of the United States' doom if things don't change and change fast.

I wonder if there was a time when the leaders of large and powerful native tribes and nations here believed their existence would not likely be challenged by a few European settlers choosing to move here?

I remember a chief (could have been Chief Seattle), when someone asked him why the Indians didn't fight harder for the land they owned, replying that no one can possess the land. That a person "owned" only the earth under his two feet as he passed through ... and the moment he lifted a foot, that "land" was no longer his. A brilliant concept, I thought!


I guess I'm in a real "what if?" mood lately, and so far my thoughts have been pretty grim. I think I need to develop some more positive possibilities to dwell on now that I've faced some of the worst ones!


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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Athens, Rome, Venice, Spain, France, Portugal, Holland...
Great Britain, Imperial Russia, Soviet Russia, the Third Reich.........

Good, Bad or Indifferent; ALL empires/city states/dictatorships decline and fall.

What? You thought WE were IMMUNE? Silly.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Point taken!
I suppose I WAS silly ... and naive and trusting, to boot. Traits I have been shedding ever since campaign 2000, sadly.

Sure does feel ... strange ... to be witnessing an historic mutation of my own country, though. I must shake this sense of the inevitability of America's imminent tragic downfall!

It's not like it's written in stone somewhere that all of us must go down in flames NOW with the criminals in power here. There's still time to "fix" it -- isn't there? :cry:


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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't think so...once you start going....
It's sort of like the look on the face of Alan Rickman from "Die Hard" just as he starts to fall off the building.

He KNOWS what's going to happen. He'd do ANYTHING to stop it. There is NOTHING he can do but watch it happen and wait for the impact.

I don't think it's possible for it to be otherwise, unless you believe in some sort of "1000 Year _____" for good guys, and even then nothing lasts forever. Ask an Egyptian.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I remember that! The look on Rickman's face --
the arrogance and fierceness changing through several quick stages as he realizes he's going to take the long plunge to his death ... shock, disbelief, understanding, horror, resisting acceptance but can't deny the inevitable ... and then what? I'm trying to recall exactly, I have the images in my mind, in motion ... did he smile ruefully?

Maybe when Willis's character was trying to hold onto him, yes, I seem to remember that -- Rickman knew that the "good guy" Willis must try to save his deadly foe. But then their grip slipped, the horror came back into Rickman's face, this time to stay and grow more intense.

You're so right, he was "going," and he knew there wasn't a damn thing he could do about it then. Brilliant acting by an old pro ... I don't think I've ever seen a more horrified expression!

I once saw a bit of "behind the camera" film about that scene, and I seem to recall that the director set it up so that Rickman actually did have to fall, far enough at least to enhance the acting with some genuine fear in spite of Rickman's knowing he was tethered and safe.

Or am I thinking now of how they got Willis to display a similar look of stark terror when he began falling too?

Either way, the scene worked beautifully. As I'm replaying it in my mind, it's impossible to dodge the reality that I DO feel like that about America's demise -- as I "wait for the impact." :(

I did understand the "silly" comment was a gentle one, but it is nonetheless ironically spot-on!

Remember Bob Dylan's classic song, "A Simple Twist of Fate"? Joan Baez may have had a bigger hit with it. That song just started playing in my mind in her voice, too, as I recalled the Diehard scene.

He told himself he didn't care, pushed the window open wide,
Felt an emptiness inside to which he just could not relate
Brought on by a simple twist of fate.


I think I hear "the ticking of the clocks," too ..........


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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. And the "silly" was meant gently, by the way.
We are all sort of "Death Row" inmates when you look at it, and our institutions are no exception.

It would be cruel to make fun of this, even one inmate to another.
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MikeH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. K & R
Edited on Wed Oct-11-06 11:03 AM by MikeH
Really scary to think about.

In 2000 I was not happy definitely not happy about *, and was worried about his becoming the pResident, but had no idea that he was going to be as bad as he has turned out to be. Or if he was, I still hoped that the checks and balances would restrain him, and that people would vote him out in 2004.

It is painful to think of people I know who voted for him, and have not had serious problems with him.

I had family who voted for * in 2000. I do not know if they voted for him in 2004, and I do not know if they have since had any serious second thoughts about him. I have avoided talking politics with them since the Iraq war started.

I do not regret ending a 30 year friendship last year after my friend voted for * a second time in 2004. He is a fundamentalist Christian, but I had previously never thought of him as fitting the worst stereotypes of people of that persuasion. He thought our actions in Iraq were the right thing for us to do. And he felt that it was OK that we did not find the weapons of mass destruction because intelligence is not an exact science. And he did not seem to be bothered by the torture in Abu Ghraib.
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