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North Korea Nuke Test -- political spin/fallout?

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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:10 AM
Original message
North Korea Nuke Test -- political spin/fallout?
the questions:

Does the NK nuke test have larger legs than the foley scandal? Enough to change the headlines on the front "page"...?

Will the NK nuke test fuel the terror-terror-fear fires of the GOP agenda?

How do you think GrOPers will proceed?

What about the Dems? How will they proceed? and just as importantly - how do you think the dems SHOULD respond?
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Awkwardly
Since in no way do they want to emphasize NK over the planned war in Iran. More than ever they need some "pretext" some catalyst for another ME adventure. Spinning in circles may not be effective either so my bet is they are looking desperately for some other story.

Maybe they will throw a cute white baby down a well..
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. Enough about its legs...
does it have a cute butt?
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. do we need a rapture to check it out properly?
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. there will be no fallout.
first, it was an underground test.
second, the instant that Bush called them axis of evil and the invaded iraq, he scared the dickens out of them. To make things worse, he refused to talk to them and rebuffed repeated suggestions from China, SK, UK, and UN. What choice did they have?

This is nothing less than a complete and utter failure of the so-called Bush doctrine - and that is how we need to describe it.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. The problem iwth North Korea is that we never had anything to
offer but tough talk. Bush was never going to invade - this was a situation that required diplomacy, and that's the Bush Administrations weakest suit. They prefer "Mugger's Diplomacy" - i.e. give us what we want or we'll beat the shit out of you.

It strikes me that we could contrast Democratic Diplomacy as a good counteropint to that.

Bryant
Check itout --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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maseman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Here's the deal
North Korea Nuke Test

1. It isn't sexy for the news to cover like the Foley scandal. Ratings are business for media outlets. They will talk about this, but not at any length.

2. North Koreans are not the dark people 'Merica hates who pray on carpets and face east. I hate to say it that way but there's this collective hatred toward middle easterns that drives the terra emotion. I don't think 90% of the people in the US could tell you where NK is on a map.

3. With Time and Newsweek coming out tomorrow that will put Foley gate back on the front pages. Plus the widening scandal will get people talking again.

4. When the Presdumbment speaks no one listens anymore. One thing about the political season that most people understand, no matter what a politician is saying right now is just that, politics. They see Shrub on TV and it is just politics. I think people are less likely to listen to him about NK then if we were two weeks after the election.

5. Hate to say it...sports kills stuff like this. Baseball playoffs, College football, NFL, even highschool sports. Fall is a bad time for big events like this.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. plus, they have been warning this for a month. so no real surprise.
Of course, with their warning, they also included an invite to talk. Which Bush and his idiot sexstate ignored.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. They will try to exploit it.....
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 09:26 AM by charlyvi
But I think they will run aground when people realize:

1) The reason NK did the test is partly shrubs "axis of evil" foreign policy. NK has obviously noticed that nations with nukes are left alone but nations without nukes are ripe for invasion. Since shrub refused to negotiate, here we are.

2) There isn't jack squat we can do about this because we are bogged down in Iraq. It will highlight our ineffectiveness due to shrub's inept conduct of the war--the first step in eliminating the "axis of evil" troika.
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Skelington Donating Member (436 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Exactly what were we supposed to "negotiate" for with N. Korea ?

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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Kim Jong Il threatened to begin production of nukes
back in '03, I believe, unless we began talks with NK. We refused to do this. Josh Marshall says it best:

All diplomatic niceties aside, President Bush's idea was that the North Koreans would respond better to threats than Clinton's mix of carrots and sticks.

Then in the winter of 2002-3, the US prepared the invade Iraq, the North called Bush's bluff. And the president folded. Abjectly, utterly, even hilariously if the consequences weren't so grave and vast.

Threats are a potent force if you're willing to follow through on them. But he wasn't. The plutonium production plant, which had been shuttered since 1994, got unshuttered. And the bomb that exploded tonight was, if I understand this correctly, almost certainly the product of that plutonium uncorked almost four years ago.

So the President talked a good game, the North Koreans called his bluff and he folded. And since then, for all intents and purposes, and all the atmospherics to the contrary, he and his administration have done essentially nothing.

http://69.20.5.85 /

What were we supposed to negotiate for? The continued closure of the plutonium production plant, the plant used to make the nukes NK has today.
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Skelington Donating Member (436 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Clinton's carrots and sticks ?
What exactly were the carrots and sticks that Clinton gave him? I think whoever gave NK the nuke technology in the first place needs to be involved in this.

What was done in 1994 to make NK stop production? What did we give him then? Who gave NK the weapons grade plutonium, or the ability to produce it? How did he build a plant? Where did the plans come from?

I think I need to do a little looking, I'm curious what the whole story is. That link you provided has a tremendous amount of opnion, but it's a dud for factual information. The questions I asked above are the questions that the article itself raises to anybody reading it, it reads a little like bush should have done what the Clinton administration did to keep the peace, only without telling what was done. I'm not sure that I would spread that article around to people who ask questions.

But thanks.

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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Here you are.
PRESIDENT REAGAN

Mid-1980s: First signs of North Korea nuclear program detected by US intelligence.

1986: North Korea produces plutonium in reactor.
PRESIDENT GEORGE H. W. BUSH

1991: US begins talks with North Korea to end to nuclear program.

1992: North Korea has separated an estimated 0-10kg of weapons-grade plutonium, enough for 1 to 2 bombs.
PRESIDENT CLINTON

1993: North Korea announces it will leave nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty; US prepares to attack nuclear sites.

1994: Clinton Administration reaches Agreed Framework, North Korea freezes nuclear production for the next eight years.

August 1998: North Korea tests medium-range Taepo-dong-1″ missile.

December 1998: North Korea warns they will test another missile, but pressure from US dissuades them.

September 1999: Pyongyang agrees to long-range missile moratorium.

October 2000: Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is highest ranking US official to ever meet with Kim Jong Il.
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

March 6, 2001: Secretary of State Colin Powell says the administration will pick up where President Clinton left off.

March 7, 2001: President Bush undercuts Powell, declares negotiations will take on a different tone.

January 2002: Bush labels North Korea a member of the Axis of Evil.

March 2003: United States invades Iraq.

April 2003: North Korea withdraws from the Non-Proliferation Treaty; soon thereafter, they restart their reactor.

April 2005: North Korea appears to unload nuclear reactor with up to another 15 kg of weapons-grade plutonium.

September 19, 2005: In six-party talks North Korea agrees to abandon its nuclear program in exchange for incentives package.

September 19, 2005: US places sanctions on bank that provides financial support for North Korean Government Agencies; causes collapse of September 2005 agreement.

June 2006: North Korea is believed to have now produced enough plutonium for 4 to 13 nuclear bombs.

July 2006: North Korea tests missiles: one medium-range and five short-range. Medium-range Taepo-dong-2 fails.

October 3, 2006: Kim Jong Il announces North Korea plans to test nuclear weapons.

October 4, 2006: North Korea asserts that nuclear test is a measure to bolstering its nuclear deterrent as a self-defense measure.

Mid-2008: If North Korea unloads another batch of fuel, it may have enough nuclear material for 8 to 17 nuclear bombs.

Rachel Weise

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/07/nk-timeline/
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Skelington Donating Member (436 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thanks,

the "framework at a glance" is interesting, Clinton reached an agreement with lil kim using heating oil. I'm not surprised that lil kim lied and went on with the uranium enrichment anyway.

However what I'm most curious about is WHO and gave lil kim the technology and WHEN,... in the first place?? US,China,Russia ????

Whatever idiot gave/sold/traded etc. the technology for the plants should be in the hot seat.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. Well, I just read something on The Corner
that says we must consider military action against Iran, due to NoKorea's nuke test.

Interesting how those tiny minds work. They can use anything to justify anything else.

- as
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's another fuck-up that will peel away more repukes from the party line
NK testing the nuke won't mean a whole hell of a lot to the sheeple - Foley still fills that bill. The moral outrage corner of the party are still consumed with it.

But for the serious conservative repukes, this has got to be rattling their boat just a bit. You can't avert your eyes from this train wreck if you really care about America's foreign policy. This Admin's utter policy and diplomatic failures are on public display (again), in a vastly more serious manner than ever before, and I'm guessing that this will peel off a few more die-hards. Don't get me wrong, Iraq's unfolding disaster is still the number one failure worming it's way into the minds of the die-hards causing squeamishness and discomfort. But NK's test just adds to the niggling already going on.

These are the policy wonks that write history though - they are the ones who will leave the longest record of this Admin's failures I believe.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Well said, riderinthestorm.
Well said indeed. The policy wonks will have their say, but will it be in time? Will future political historians look back on the shrub regime as one that killed American democracy, as well as throusands (millions?) of people, or will the wonks speak up in time to prevent these horrors?
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. Have you seen CNN MSNBC & FOX in full Fear throttle mode -- complete
with images N. Korean Military parades and missiles launching continuously 24-7.

It's is John Mark Karr type propoganda only with an oriental culprit.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. They will blame it on Bill Clinton
They've done it for the last 6 years... why change now?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
19. Well, george will be going on tv soon to tell us how unsafe we all are.
Yet, we're safer. But, we're still not safe enough. But, Clinton did it too. yet....oh go fuck yourself mr. bush*.
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