Woodward on MTP Now!

[spanone]

exposing bush* lies about Iraq. Showing 'classified' graph that exposes bush* lies.

Says US needs some truth telling. No shit.

Says Cheney called him and says he was upset that Woodward quoted him, called his story (about Kissinger) bullshit and hung up on him.

LOL

[madame defarge]

1. Just found this at TPM RE: Woodward & Ohio 2004 elections

Let us know if he talks about this!!!

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.


Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)
mjrosenberg's picture
By M.J. Rosenberg | bio

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.

section break

On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.

The rest is history.

Does something about this story stink to high heaven!

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did...

[H2O Man]

7. The book indeed

says that Carville told the White House that Kerry was considering contesting Ohio. But there is nothing in the book that indicates that the White House did anything to keep Kerry from doing so. In fact, the book makes it clear that the decision not to use one of three options to contest Ohio was entirely Kerry's.

Everything in the book regarding Ohio supports, in my opinion, the belief that the democratic vote was not counted. Kerry seemed aware of that. He could have contested it, but choose not to for two reasons: he felt it could be damaging to the country to have two contested national elections in a row, and he was convinced that even though he was correct, he would not win the struggle. Neither of these beliefs hinged on what Carville told people in the WH, or what they did in response.

[Roland99]

2. He's ripping this admin and countering claims he didn't speak to people

like Kissinger, Scowcroft, etc.

[H2O Man]

10. While I did not

see him on MTP this morning, I've watched him respond to critics in the past week. They aren't going to win the debate by challenging him on sources or the accuracy of his quotes.

While I do not like Woodward, I found this book a very impressive indictment of the administration. It is by far Woodward's best book (I am not including Woodward-Bernstein efforts).

[glitch]

13. Does he go into PNAC and the massive transfer of wealth the Bushco has

accomplished, or is this just about their incompetence and lies to war?

[H2O Man]

14. The book is

pretty focused on picking up the story about the war, from about where he left off with the second book. That includes some information on the expense of the Bush-Cheney investment in Iraq.

[glitch]

16. Hmm, writing about this administration and not going into PNAC seems

incomprehensible to me, but probably the dirt on the Bushes will fill volumes and he's leaving these important little tidbits for his next book. Or another writer.

Of course by then the family may be safely in exile.

[H2O Man]

18. PNAC

was from before the information covered in this book. Some of the information regarding the people involved in PNAC is found in the second book "Plan of Attack."

[glitch]

19. Thank you for reading them and reporting back, so that I don't have to.

So many good books and excellent writers, Woodward is not my first choice. It is good to know what he covers in depth (and what he notes as an aside), since people do pay attention to his words.

[H2O Man]

22. I would guess

that the majority of DUers could read this book from cover to cover, and not encounter anything new. At least not anything of significance. There are some conversations between a few players that may not have been reported on progressive sites, but I honestly think DU gives a fuller analysis of the issues involved in the Iraq mess than Woodward.

If I were to list the top ten things missing from BW's three books, the full PNAC picture would have to be at the top. He makes brief mention of Plame, but ignores things like the neocon/AIPAC espionage scandal entirely. He is not nearly as honest or accurate as, say, James Bamford. However, his works are read by a different audience (with some overlap, of course).

I think people might enjoy reading the book. I'd think going to the library might be the best bet. I also think it's important to have some general discussions of the book -- and certainly the coverage on tv -- so that people appreciate the impact the book appears to be having. One thing I'm not comfortable with is the discussions that say Woodward indicates Carville was responsible for a change in the Kerry campaign's stance on contesting Ohio. I like Carville, but think there is fair reason to think he might say things to his wife. But my feeling is that Woodward recognized that the Kerry people had some very serious concerns about Ohio. He puts it in the context of the election results starting out being dismal for the Bush administration; they were actually quite depressed up until late afternoon or early evening. Then the change came. Woodward notes three areas of concern the Kerry people had, and the Carville piece only seems to lead to some conflict on how to respond within the Bush camp.

Woodward notes a few irregularities that involved denying democrats the same opportunity to actually vote, and his comments seem to indicate he believed this would have given Kerry the strongest case to contest the outcome. It sounds like Woodward though Kerry was trying to do something for the good of the country, and not for personal, possibly selfish reasons; he notes that Kerry attempted to reach out to Bush, and offer to support an effort to try to heal the growing divides in the country. Woodward makes clear that Bush rejected the concept, ignored an opportunity to reach out to others, and began to act in a very selfish, arrogant manner.

[glitch]

24. Very clear and concise You do good work H20 Man.

edit: this seems like the kind of book where you could pick up a lot in nuance.
Thanks for distilling it for us!

[Nimrod2005]

3. I heard that...Cheney called him is similar to Putin's taking care of

certain journalist yesterday!!!

[City Lights]

4. Cheney is so mature...

getting mad and hanging up on Woodward. I'm so glad the "adults" are in charge.

[spanone]

5. It just emphasizes the desperation of this criminal cabal.

[H2O Man]

11. The more the

administration and their hannity-ite poodles attack Woodward, the more air time he will be given to respond. His sources and quotes are clearly accurate. The book is a strong indictment of the administration.

[Ilsa]

6. I was coming to DU to find out who said "bullshit" to Woodward

and why, because I got a phone call right then and missed the story. I was laughing about it anyway. Thanks for the clarity! I was hoping it was Dumbya who called him. Cheney saying "bullshit" is no big deal. The Idiot in Chief would have been a different matter to his constituency.

[spanone]

8. You know if Cheney calls 'bullshit' it HAS to be true.

[Quixote1818]

17. Here is another thread on the Bull Shit remark

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[chat_noir]

9. blame game

[I Have A Dream]

12. Great graphic! n/t

[JoMama49]

15. Can you watch MTP on line if you missed it?

If so, can someone provide a link?
Thx

[NMDemDist2]

21. it usually replays tonight on MSNBC or CNBC if you have cable n/t

[tavalon]

20. Okay, am I forgetting history here?

I've been seeing all of these positive remarks about Woodward for his current book but weren't his last two books Bush suck-ups? Was he perhaps buttering them up for the kill or am I just remembering wrong?

[H2O Man]

23. Book #1

was cheer-leading on Bob's part. It's little more an a commercial for the Bush administration.

Book #2 was different. It had a lot of the pro-Bush baloney in it, but it also had evidence of growing fractures within the lower levels of the administration.

Book #3 documents the sins of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. It's a good book. DUers are likely familiar with most of it, and it isn't as good as Hersch or Bamford's works by any means. But it communicates some of the things that DUers have know for years, to a different audience.