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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:34 PM
Original message
THANK YOU for taking out the godless thread
I didn't even get a chance to ask and it was done.

The mocking of those who believe Christ exists as being crazy is horrible. I'm sad so many people posted pats on the back to those sayings, most were satirical but several were HATE SPEECH!

There's nothing wrong with anyone saying there's no god, no christ, and ridiculing actions that people do, but to make attacks on the people who love Christ as crazy and mock our God is where we get the "kooky liberals" adage and why middle of the road people choose the wrong candidate.


Thank you mods for elimating that thread. Eliminate this one if you think it's improper, I understand.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bless you. :)
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. thank you so much... you also! my life is quite hard
then to come to my favorite website only to be mocked as crazy? I don't think so, I get that enough from the churches I attend and they slander me as confused (see the flag to the left). Mocking people's beliefs - That's not what a real liberal should be like.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. wow, after posting on 5 threads and looking what else was being discussed
I saw this had multiple greatest page votes. That's uplifting. Thank you DUers. I mean that. Peace to all and rights to everyone!
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. OK, Big question for You !!
I missed the thread that was pulled, so I can't comment.

But, I saw "Jesus Camp" last night. I have had some running conversations in ERD about the effect of a group that I, as a Christian myself (and most of the rest of the Christian World), consider to be Heretical. And this group is the link to the GOP.

How do you propose we discuss this subject? I've already written to a Yahoo! group in response to another person's post about "Jesus Camp", and had planned to post it here. But, now, I hesitate.

I think most people are not up on their theology (or trigonometry, sophistry, etc.), and when these heretics (Dominionists are most common) claim to stand for "values" and to be "Believers", and take the GOP into their hearts (and pockets) how do Christian Democrats respond?

I've created a list of nine current Senators who endorsed a bill which would overthrow our democracy, as well as 39 Representatives. This bill is supposed to permit things like "10 Commandments" being shown in court houses. But ask the Constitutional Scholars here what it really means.

But, if I post that, are Christians going to feel attacked?

Please advise.

Mods be on alert, also. This could be slippery.



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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. The thread in question wasn't zapped, just Lounged.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
83. My First Lounge Visit - Read it- You Got Upset Over That?
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 08:39 PM by Wiley50
Look, I'm not mocking anyone.
Believe what you want to believe
Live and let Live
But I am exposed to your beliefs every day
some of you even try to convince me
I take it. That's life.

So,on DU, you take vile offense
To Some Bumperstickers?
Comeon
Fair for the Goose and all.

I'm a realist.
If science can't prove it
It ain't real.
and Creationism don't count

I believe that people who believe things
that science cannot prove,
are seeing things that don't exist,.
to me, that's a delusion
in fact, to DSM-IV it's a delusion
People who believe their delusion are not sane

I'm sorry
but that's how I believe
and it is as equally valid as your belief
which I see every day on
billboards and bumperstickers
and you folks feel like you have every right
And you do.
But so do I

This is not "hate speech"
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. I have a sophmoric sense of humor, so yes
several of them tickled me.

Sorry you were offended, but that OP was humor, not brutality.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. sorry you missed the thread
so there's nothing to talk about, because I sure ain't getting into the Jesus Camp documentary!!! lol.... So I stopped reading your post, not out of disrespect, but I haven't seen it. Someone said the lady in it said she wanted her students to actually DIE for Christ, which made it sound Christofascist-like. So, no comment from me. Thanks for understanding.
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. You are right about the lady.
I was so surprised because, I knew her!

I lived in Lee's Summit about 20 years ago, the place where the mothers are. And, I recognized several of the adults in the movie, particularly, Mrs. Fischer.

Thiese people aren't Christians. They are very, very sick... waiting for the Apocalypse to end their sad lives. They never think that, as Jesus said, the end wil "come like a thief in the night."

These people think they can "trigger" it into happening. That is to tell God what he must do, I think. Heresy in anyone's book, to me.


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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
81. Does Jesus Camp take place outside of KC?
I haven't seen it but I'm from there.
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #81
90. Some of it does. The actual camp is
in either North or South Dakota.

Much of the film footage is shot in the homes of the parents who send (or accompany) their kids to "Jesus Camp", but fully half of the film is shot in either the KC area (including Lee's Summit) and some in St. Robert, Missouri.

If you are from KC, you may even recognize some of the shots of the freeways.
But most of the local shots are largely in the homes of the zealots who raise thse kids, and much of the dialogue is with the parents.

One thing I noted is that with the exception of a scene in Colorado Springs (at Rev. Heggie's megachurch) that almost all of the praying, the prayer leaders, talking in tongues, etc., is directed by those with no formal theological training. It really does hark back to the days of the Primitive Baptist Church of 150 years ago.

These folks would even be heretical in the view of the Assembly of God. This, because the talking in tongues does not require any "interpretation" by someone else "in the spirit". It is just wild, babbling (on cue) and has no connection at all to the "speaking in tongues" as described in Acts, on the day of the Pentecost.

These people are just over-the-top. Totally freelancing!

It really is a must-see movie, because what is being filmed is actually "group hysteria". Hard to believe this happens.

Even in Nazi Germany, there was some disciple to it to the indoctrination of the kids. Still, watch these kids and you will not be able to keep from thinking about the Hitler Youth.


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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. I know many people who are Christians currently in the GOP fold
simply because they feel ridiculed and unwelcome by the party. Posts like the one that was yanked only polarize their feelings away from us

Belief in Christ is a personnel and deep decision that should reflect respect, not ridicule and scorn
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
72. And when I go to a funeral for a dear relative
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 07:48 PM by sybylla
I am ridiculed, scorned and blasted as evil in the sermon for being an atheist. Christian religion is thick with it. It's not just funeral sermons.

Non-belief is a personal and rational conclusion that should reflect respect, not ridicule and scorn.

Lucky for liberal xtians that I'm not so sensitive as to shun working for the common good by becoming a member in the Democratic party simply because a few(?) bad eggs make me feel unwelcome.

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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
95. You say it's a "personnel" decision? Okay.
So, knowing that, I don't think I'll take the position.
I'd probably get fired.
It's personal.

Not ridiculing your religion
just your spelling.

Hint:
The DU spell check works real well
but doesn't notice context
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Love and peace to you, too, themartyred!
:hi: :hug:
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Religious Intolerence
Should not exist on this board anyplace.

I myself have no viewpoint on a god, but I would not ridicule anyone for not sharing my view.

Shame to those who did.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. that was quite
eloquently said for being so succinct.

good thoughts to you brundle_fly
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. and to you.
:grouphug:

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Well stated fly. n/t
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. I vote to flush this one.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ones religion should be personal and private
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 06:27 PM by durrrty libby
Why are so many flat out ignorant of religious etiquette?

There is also a separate section here to discuss all things sacred and holy

Find it....use it..love it!

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QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. thanks for saying this!
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 06:32 PM by QuestionAll...
I've had to grind my teeth plenty of times at some posts here and the ignorant intolerance toward believers in Christ.

Shame on them! if they don't believe, then just shut your nasty hole about it.

edited for clarity.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. "shut your nasty hole about it."
What a lovely...holy...pious sentiment!


:rofl:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. ha...
I think they say the mouth of that person is spewing filth. but what you wrote is still funny. :)
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QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. I'm not holy.

where'd you get that idea?
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. now that's even better! lol... n/t
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sorry but no.
The 'kooky liberal' adage comes from some grassy knollers believing that a missile hit the Pentagon and controlled demolition brought down the World Trade Center. It has nothing to do with religion. If Christ ever existed or cared, he would be shocked and depressed by our actions today. Would Jesus build a nuclear bomb?

I didn't see the thread, but censorship of hate speech is the right thing. Just make sure it IS hate speech and not your emotions wanting it to be.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. sacrilege is now "hate speech?"
i guess i better burn my monty python dvds.

o! the self righteous humanity!

i agree 5,000,000% with what you said here: "Just make sure it IS hate speech and not your emotions wanting it to be. "
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. "Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is good"
You'll make me cry if you burn your monty python dvds. Let us appeal to the Man Upstairs!


"O Lord, you are so massively big and hugh. You who are large and we who are so small and insignificant." "Please don't squash us like bugs, in your magnanimity and might. In fear amen."

Okay so I don't remember EVERY MP sketch by heart. So sue me. :evilgrin:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. I never said that
sacrilege was the hate speech. I said calling me crazy, when we're supposed to be liberals here is rather over the line. Personal religion is something not to be told your crazy for. Please know what I questioned before putting words in my mouth. I wish people wouldn't blaspheme but you can do it all you like without retribution from me. That's what makes me who I am, I'm not going to rip your belief.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. i'm one of those "live and let live" secular humanist people
religion, imho, deserves to be ridiculed and provides ample material toward that end.

there is much that i find offensive, but in my spirit of freethought, i think everyone has a right to say what they want, even if i don't agree with it.

i'm not a big fan of censorship.

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. there's a reason we have rules on DU
just like in 'real life". Sometimes people cross boundaries and show a disrespect for their fellow human. The other thread did such.

peace.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. no one can affront your dignity unless you consent to it.
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
49. Remember, though, blasphemy is in the ear of the hearer. N/T
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. it was
I won't say some of the things on here. most of them were funny barbs about one's own belief and stating there's no god, but several of the 20 or so were blatant attacks I summized in the OP. I have thick skin when it comes to sarcasm about religion, and I appreciate a good ribbing, they obviously went over the top because a mod locked the thread. I enjoyed Dogma (the movie), so I like sarcastic humor, but one needs to draw the line at attacking others and the god they believe in.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Dam, if you enjoyed Dogma, then it must have been pretty bad.
Hate speech and censorship are two very big weapons in a persons arsenal. I loved Dogma, sometimes people can go too far.

Peace be with you themartyred.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
53. there is a god . . .
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 07:11 PM by antifaschits
an all powerful god. she wanted fresh grape leaves brought to her statue every second morning, or else, she would make all goats sterile, give small male children warts, and provide women between 25-50 vaginal itch. Also, if there was not at least 100 blow jobs provided to Centurians each day, then the 1/2 of all wine would become vinegar and all cheese would become green. The only way to prevent this horror would be to find 14 virgins and offer them to a demented isherman, someone with a long beard, a lust for virgin women, and an ability to make wine out of water. Also, My GOD will allow a true believer to spread waters of a lake, river, ocean (your choice) at the drop of a hat and allow you to escape all sorts of enemies, including IRS tax collectors, or their private collecters recently hired by the Bushistas. Lastly, my god thinks that you must never eat cereal in the morning, but stick to beer, pot, heroin and LSD as the breakfast of champs.

That is my god, and I am sticking to it. So the fact that my god dresses up as Bozo on weekends, and wears a Dick Cheney mask on Sundays, thinks the moon is made of green cheese and knows that the universe is 1,220 years old, should not impact your ability to honor my god, who is much more correct, ethical powerful and better than that false god you claim to have.

luckily I like to fish and have a long beard.

so there.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. What a bunch of BS
OMG! HATE SPEECH!

Wow. I would think that anyone that had a problem with that thread must not have much faith in their beliefs.

So now DU must capitulate to YOUR beilef in a supernatural being? What a crock!

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. learn the value of understanding that religious intolerance is wrong
because you seem to have no tolerance for believing religious hate speech is wrong, and for me, especially when it comes from warmongers who say they're Christian/Muslim/Jewish. So many wars are based on religious intolerance, it's not funny when the bounds of etiquette are breached (calling someone crazy for believing whatever they believe). There's a place for laughing about things, but maturity brings an understanding of respect to the table.

You seem so vitriol with your implying anyone who would take offense doesn't have much faith is beyond the pale of being kind that there's nothing further to say to you. I can hear you screaming at me already. I feel like I asked the president a question he didn't like. lol...
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. religious intolerance
is someone saying you can't practice your faith. lots of us tolerate many religions very well, often with large grains of salt.

if what someone says (and they aren't even saying to you directly) doesn't have the power to keep you from the free exercise of your faith, how can you have an issue with it, how can you call it intolerance?

religious intolerance is something like rapid, mouth-foaming christian fundamentalists calling for the death of islamofascists.

what am i missing here?
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. There are no special rules when it comes to....
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 06:56 PM by and-justice-for-all
Discussing ANY ideology and specially Christianity which should not be approached with kids gloves; at least as far as I am concerned.

Religion is Toxic.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. because DU governs respecting others
and not running down your fellow DU'er personally - calling Christians crazy (and I've seen MUCH worse in my 2 years) is worthy of having your post deleted. We're not talking about people talking at a coffee shop and you disrespecting me by saying I'm crazy for believing in Christ, per se, but that DU is a community run board where they expect people not to trash other differing view points in a hostile manner...

why is that so hard to follow?


good night. gotta go. nice talking to you all! :)
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. One would think
that given the fact that 20-25% of Americans who are your fellow Christians are trying to turn this country into a Theocratic state, that you would be more understanding of a little ribbing from the rest of us that just want to be free to be left alone.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. you sure didn't digest all I had to say. because I did laugh! peace n/t
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. No, I have to tolerate your religion every day
Messages on church signs that offend me, strangers God blessing me, strangers coming into my store to try to "save" me.

When YOU decide that it's good to practice censorship of something that offends your religious beliefs -- it is you that is intolerant.

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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
74. mongo, u rock
:yourock:
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:53 PM
Original message
I'm just a crumudgeon....
Thanks for the kind words...

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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. I used to think that Democrats believed in tolerance.
After seeing some of the venomous anti-Christian posts on this board, though, I see that's not always true.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. yeah that intolerance is as prevalent
as bloviating self-righteous bombast.
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IamyourTVandIownyou Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. Religion Kills - Science Saves
nt
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
61. I say this as an atheist with the utmost respect for science
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
73. welcome to DU
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qwertyMike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. Hey Dude
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 07:16 PM by qwertyMike
There is a God, and it's not you, You will find out.

Jesus, I dunno.
1. He existed (Josephus)
2. He had a following
3. He was cricified

That's about it.


Not a bad life. (Apart from Mel Gibson)
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. and i thought there was a rule about dragging one thread into another
or something like that?
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. The martyred has succeeded in getting 20 recommendations now
for this thread which also now includes a link to the original thread they were happy to have censored.

Here it is again, for those who wish to read it O8)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I imagine Atman would like to say thank you to themartyred for drawing extra attention to their thread :-)
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. i've had threads locked before
for bringing another thread issue into a new one.
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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
52. This uproar is about that thread?
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 07:11 PM by GreenJ
:freak: :nopity:
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
54. Someone please explain what thehell this is all about??
Is this about someone getting their 'religion'offended because they think their ideology should be discussed with kids gloves?

NO ideology will be discussed with kids gloves nor are there any special rules when doing so. EVERY ideology is open to critisism and riducule.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
57. Oh fer chritsake. That is what all the whining is about?
boo hoo drama queens :nopity:
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. but, but
you should bow in lickspittle deference to my belief system! otherwise democrats will lose elections!

vomit.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. You are right about the nausea
Religion....personal.....private

Go out and do the good works your God wants from you
and stop yappinn about it. Sheesh...(phony balonies abound)

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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. it is pure posturing
if i were devout and truly believed in my religion, i'd probably forgive those who offend me rather than playing the martyr and being a crybaby for attention.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. ....
:applause: :applause: :applause:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
58. THAT'S what all this sturm and drang is about?
I couldn't imagine what 'hate speech' was being discussed until I saw the post.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. It wasn't locked
It was moved to the lounge.

Which ones were hate speech?
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. uh. . . thank . . .erm . . .god?
that was a totally innocuous thread.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
55. i just skimmed it, but it seemed inoccuous to me
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 07:14 PM by fishwax
Moving it to the lounge seems like a good idea, since it's more intended to amuse, but locking it would be a shame.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
86. after several very polite requests
I do not speak for anyone but me - but this is what I felt when reading what this was, because - I too, am bothered by the warmongering Christofascism within our gov't (look at my journal) and thought it might have to do with Coulter because it had godless in the title. I didn't want to have the trouble makers of the discussion (there's only a couple) still not allow themselves to see why these certain ones are over the top on a community forum where we're supposed to be civil to one another, but then I thought, how will they learn if people don't speak up (thanks to operationmindcrime for encouraging me with his very well written posts!). Here's the list, some rather mean spiritedly advocate in satire the killing of people because of their beliefs -

Beware of dogma. 100% fine!

God is just pretend. 100% fine


Recovering catholic. 100% fine


Nothing fails like prayer. 100% fine


The christian right is neither. 100% fine


I believe in life before death. 100% fine


Religion is myth-information. 100% fine


Religion stops a thinking mind. 100% fine


My karma ran over your dogma. 100% fine & cleverly worded


So many christians, so few lions. This is total hate speech along the lines of Coulter

Blasphemy is a victimless crime. 100% fine


One nation under god = theocracy. 100% fine


God, protect us from your followers. 100% fine


There is no sin greater than ignorance. 100% fine


Come the rapture, can I have your car? 100% fine and hilarious! I almost want one, but I hope to not have a use for it.

Fundamentalism stops a thinking mind. 100% fine!


Doing my part to piss off the religious right. 100% fine!


Religions are just cults with more members. 100% fine


Your kids and my taxes go to St. Pedophiles. 100% fine


He's your god. They're your rules. You burn in hell. 100% fine


At first they burn books. Eventually they burn people. 100% fine!


I've got nothing against god. It's his fan club I can't stand. 100% fine


Fundamentalism means never having to open your mind. 100% fine


When religion ruled the world they called it the dark ages. 100% fine


Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it. 100% fine


Guilt, fear and mass insanity. Three cheers for christianity. "mass insanity"?, that's disrespectful to someone's personal choice and calling all who believe in Christ as being insane.

You found god? If nobody claims him in 30 days, he's your's. 100% fine


To err is human. To really screw things up you need religion. 100% fine


The only problem with baptists is they don't hold them under long enough. This is hate speech towards Baptists who use DU, I'm sure there's several!

And even though my least liked Christian denomination is the Baptist church itself, it's still not even remotely funny to articulate killing people by drowning them because you so are against belief in a god and I stand for them in saying that's horrible. Coulter is the twisted opposite of this type of behavior from the other side, so if some want to be equated with her and her satirical brand of bigoted humor, then you go for it! I have a feeling she'd be banned from this site for saying the similar things she's said, about people of faith, too. (Muslims should be nuked) and her hatred toward gays, but some of you think she'd be allowed to say whatever she want on this website? Hardly, hate is hate regardless if it's about skin color, sexuality, or religion. Sorry if you want to behave like her then you'll be called similar to her.

Goodness, have some decorum, we're on a "melting pot" website and a couple of you behave like we're at a bar arguing over the pool table and see I have a cross on and start a fight over it. If you're going to be a community member then don't be a part of encouraging feeding Christians to lions, drowning Baptists, and call all Christians insane! Nice way to hateful.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. Love your handle
It fits.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. Thank you!
have all the fun you want attacking other people. It's what some people do so well. Real classy people - oh, I mean the ones who recommended the thread of course.



RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE KILLS.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
69. Oooh..religion and kill in the same sentence from a so-called
religious person. How unusual is that????

:argh: :freak: :hangover: :hurts: :thumbsdown:
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #50
84. I live in an area with lots of fundies
They spend their time trying to regulate what other people do. i don't care if they want to speak in tongues, handle snakes and pretend they decide who gets 'saved' and who goes to hell.

I just want to be left the fuck alone and not told what to do by a bunch of fanatics.

however, because they are so meddlesome and bothersome and because they now run the federal government, I appreciate your giving me permission to 'attack' because I damn well will
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
46. Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing.
Why do you want to clamp down on that? IMO, that is NO better than what the fundies are trying to do to everyone in this country. Amazing how you twist it to be hate! Wow that is just ridiculous. Sorry to break it to ya, but criticism or sarcasm is NOT hate. :eyes:
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. Just curious...
Where did you stand on the Mohamed cartoons?
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
47. thin skinned much?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm not sorry I missed it.
As far as religious bigotry goes, I'll say this:

As long as my beliefs are as valued and honored as the rest, and no one faith gets to claim superiority over another, or is intrusive enough to try to interfere with my own spiritual practice, we're good.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
62. I'm a proud Liberal believer
I didn't see the thread, but I don't let people get me down for my faith. My faith has gone through so many changes as my life has taken many turns and nobody can take my experiences from me. I hope those who don't believe will respect that there are some very fine Liberals who actually do have faith in Jesus Christ.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
66. K&R. I'm A Firm Believer That Religious Intolerance Is One Of The Biggest
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 07:31 PM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
forms of ignorance and animosity that exists in the world today. Intolerance as a whole, religious or otherwise, is one of the biggest catalysts for ill will towards others that I can think of. There is nothing good that can come of it and I believe it to be an act of disgrace and ignorance any time I see it.

Unfortunately, some are so insecure with themselves that the only way they can feel comfortable about themselves and their opinions is by outwardly mocking others who share different ones.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. When 20-25% of our country is trying to shove their religion
down our throats, by creating a theocratic state -- I think it is the religion, and not the intolerance of it that is a problem.

Religion has caused more wars, more death, more suffering than any single IDEA that man has ever conceived.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. 20-25%? ROFLMAO!
Don't know what country you're living in, but there ain't no way in hell 20-25% of Americans are shoving their religion down our throats and creating a theocratic state. It is overdramatizations like that which cause problems.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #79
94. Some stats and references
A 1992 survey (Green) showed that in the United States and Canada evangelicals make up both the largest and the most active group of Christians (surpassing both Catholics and Mainline or non-Evangelical Protestant groups).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism#United_Stat...

Because evangelicalism lacks denominational structures or membership requirements, and because those who identify as evangelicals often have varying definitions of what that label means, it is difficult to count them. A 2003 Gallup Poll found that 42 percent of Americans self-identified as "born-again or evangelical," up from 36 percent in 1992.

Still, it appears certain that evangelicals will be key to the 2004 election for Bush. The Gallup Poll showed that in 1994, 42 percent of Republicans and 38 percent of Democrats identified as "born-again or evangelical." In 2003, the gap was up to 10 points, with 49 percent identifying as Republicans and 39 percent as Democrats. And the recent survey "American Evangelicals" showed that nearly seven in 10 white evangelicals are either Republican or lean GOP, while just 23 percent would vote or lean toward the Democrats.

http://www.religionlink.org/tip_040503a.php

And the Jesus Camp Trailer puts the makup at 25%. You can click on the ad on DU.

An estimated 70 million Americans call themselves evangelicals, and their beliefs have already reshaped American politics. In the last election, 40 percent of the votes for George W. Bush came from their ranks, and now those beliefs are beginning to reshape the culture as well -- thanks to a group of best-selling novels known as the Left Behind series.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/05/60minutes/mai...

Dominionist Influence in The U.S. Congress
2004 senate graph

One way to measure the political strength of dominionists is to study voting patterns of members of Congress. A recent amendment added to a bill in the U.S. House of Representatives, HR 2123, allows religious discrimination in Head Start hiring which is a serious blow to both religious liberty and civil rights. more The graph on the right shows how Representatives voted.

210 Republicans and 10 Democrats voted for the amendment. 9 Republicans, 186 Democrats and 1 independent voted against the amendment. This graph illustrates that dominionists reside overwhelmingly in one political party. Since the Republican Party has majorities in both houses of Congress, they set the agendas, chair the committees, and decide which bills will and won't come up for a vote.

Congressional scorecards from organizations such as the Christian Coalition, Family Research Council, and Eagle Forum also illustrate the strength of dominionists in Congress. Click here to view Senate Congressional scorecards from those three organizations as compared to the League of Conservation Voters, a consortium of environmental groups. You'll see an almost perfect inverse correlation -- the higher the scores from dominionist groups, the lower the scores on the environment. (The tables in the above link were provided by Glenn Scherer, October, 2004 - note: four Democratic Senators were campaigning for the Presidential Primary in 2004 and missed many votes which lowered their environmental scores substantially.)

http://www.theocracywatch.org /

Theocracywatch.org is an especially good site if you want some more info.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
68. Jesus was a HUGE liberal
Maybe I should say hugh? I am not overly religious but was raised christian and believe that the bible contains some important images... (as do many other religious manifestos..., most have a similar theme.)

below is a LONG email i put together for a friend who questioned why i defend the poor and downtrodden:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


The "right" chokes on the beatitudes

--------------------
If the right-wingers really studied the matter, they'd find they have more in common with Muhammad than with Jesus. Muhammad was a merchant, a businessman and entrepreneur - a capitalist. Before Jesus walked off his job, he was a carpenter, a common laborer - and with his talk of brotherhood, no doubt would have been a union man.

He hung out with the dregs of society: the poor, prostitutes, tax collectors, and finally thieves. Not exactly the kind of person to whom you would entrust your most precious and eternal possession: your stock portfolio.

Jesus revealed his anti-business agenda as soon as he threw the money-changers out of the temple. To the orthodox for whom taxation is government organized theft, Jesus' clear advocacy of paying taxes by "rendering unto Caesar" is a complete abomination. Scholars are still divided over whether the raising of Lazarus was to escape the death tax or an intent to pay it twice.

--------------------

Jesus mollycoddled the poor and went out of his way to condemn the rich. His warning that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to get into heaven was typical socialist blather. The affluent have had to devote themselves to breeding smaller camels and building larger needles ever since.

------------------
Jesus' purpose in life was to do the will of His heavenly Father. Wherever He went, He brought goodness. He never hurt or injured anyone, although He did get angry at others who did wrong. He called self-righteous church-going people vipers and once turned over tables in the temple where money-changers were taking advantage of the people.

Jesus was friends with the outcast of societysinners. He reached out to the publicans, thieves, prostitutes. He never scorned anyone. He knew what was in the heart of a man (or woman). Just because they were religious did not mean that they knew God.

----------------------

Jesus challenged the Pharisees purity system by almost everything he did. Its no coincidence that there are so many stories about Jesus getting into the everyday dirt and grit of life. Touching lepers, being touched by a hemorrhaging woman. Forgiving an adulteress. Going into an unclean graveyard to cast out demons and send them into a herd of unclean pigs. Eating with outcasts like tax collectors and prostitutes, and drunkards all of those people at the very bottom of the Whos Who of the Impure.

So Jesus came to confront the heart of this system the temple by driving out the money-changers and the sacrificial animal dealers; by exposing the profits and the kickbacks that the temple elite received under the table when he said that the temple authorities had turned his Fathers house into a den of robbers, as its recorded in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

----------------------

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments'" (Matthew 22:37-40, emphasis mine).

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:34-35).

The counterfeit Christ and his followers have long lists of "do's and don't's" that are preached as "Gospel." And everyone who doesn't subscribe to their legalistic list are condemned. We see them protesting with signs that read "God hates fags," "God hates baby-killers," and "God hates !"

But the genuine Jesus has just two laws: love God and love people. True followers of Jesus may not agree with the lifestyles and opinions of everyone (in fact, they shouldn't), but they will be the first to show compassion to those they disagree with. That's why Jesus hung out with drunks, prostitutes, "tax collectors," and "sinners." He loved people. He didn't love all their actions--and didn't join them in all their behaviors--but He showed them that he loved them. True followers of Jesus are not preaching against people with addictions; they are volunteering at rehabilitation programs at local shelters. They're not bombing abortion clinics; they're working in the pro-life Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

--------------------------

Jesus also had withering words for the wealthy who oppressed--or simply ignored --the poor.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort" (Luke 6:20, 24).

Genuine followers of Jesus have a sense of joy and satisfaction in who they are--at whatever "level" on the social or ecclesiastical ladder they may find themselves.

Jesus said, "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete" (John 15:11).

----------------------------

5. His earthly father was a carpenter, a humble hewer of wood with whom He lived and laboured, conforming to our human ways of life, custom, language and living that He might understand and love us better and communicate with us on the lowly level of our own limited human understanding!--He learned to LOVE Mankind. He saw their suffering and had great compassion on them, longing to not only heal their sick and broken bodies, but also to save their immortal spirits!

6. When the time came and He began his life's work, He went about everywhere doing good.--Helping people, loving children, healing heartaches, strengthening tired bodies, saving whom He could. He not PREACHED His message, but He LIVED it amongst us. He not only ministered to their spiritual needs, but He spent a great deal of time ministering to their physical and material needs, miraculously healing them when they were sick, feeding them when they were hungry and sharing His life and His Love!

7. He was so simple and His religion was so simple that He said you must become as a little CHILD to receive it! He didn't preach Temple worship, He didn't preach going to synagogue nor going to church, He didn't preach any complicated ceremonies or difficult rules.--All he did was preach LOVE and show Love, as He strove to lead God's children into the True Kingdom of God, whose only laws are to "love the Lord with all thy heart" and "love thy neighbour as thyself".

8. He had very little to do with the high-fallutin', rich-robed, churchy scribes, pharisees and hypocrites--the religious leaders of that day--except when they insisted on annoying Him with their critical questions. Then He would sock it to them, publicly exposing them as the "blind leaders of the blind" that they were, even telling them that they were like white-washed SEPULCHRES, which indeed appear beautiful, clean and holy on the OUTSIDE, but WITHIN are full of rottenness, corruption and stinking dead men's bones!

9. He was not a mere religious reformer, He was a REVOLUTIONARY! He refused to compromise with the false religious system, but rather worked totally OUTSIDE of it, reaching and sharing His Love with the poor and common folk who had long ago abandoned and been abandoned by organised religion. He never went into any bar with whip in hand, breaking up the bottles and throwing out the bartender. Nor did He ever enter any brothel, beating up the poor girls, overturning their beds and throwing the men out the window.--But He DID make a whip, go into their big beautiful religious Temple, overturn the tables, spill out the money and drive the money-mad money-changers out of the church, condemning them for turning what was supposed to be a house of prayer into a den of thieves!

10. He made Himself of no reputation, and was a companion of drunks and prostitutes, publicans and sinners, the outcasts and downtrodden of society. He even told them that they would enter the Kingdom of Heaven before the so-called "good" people, the self-righteous and religious leaders who re jected Him and His simple Message of Love. The power of His Love and of His appeal was so great and gave such great faith to the sincere truth-seekers that they didn't hesitate to drop everything they had and forsake all immediately to become His full-time followers!

----------------------------

From Matthew 25:

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are
blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for
you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to
eternal life."

------------------------------------------------------------

Ruth went to her mail box and there was only one letter. She picked
it up and looked at it before opening, but then she looked at the
envelope again.
There was no stamp, no postmark, only her name and address.
She read the letter:

Dear Ruth:

I`m going to be in your neighborhood Saturday afternoon
and I'd like to stop by for a visit.

Love Always, Jesus

Her hands were shaking as she placed the letter on the
table. "Why would the Lord want to visit me? I'm nobody special. I don't have anything to offer."
With that thought, Ruth remembered her empty kitchen cabinets.
"Oh my goodness, I really don't have anything to offer. I'll have
to run down to the store and buy something for dinner." She reached for her purse and counted out its contents. Five dollars and forty cents. "Well, I can get some bread and cold cuts, at least."
She threw on her coat and hurried out the door.

A loaf of French bread, a half-pound of sliced turkey,
and a carton of milk...leaving Ruth with grand total twelve cents to last her until Monday. Nonetheless, she felt good as she headed home, her meager offerings tucked under her arm.

"Hey lady, can you help us, lady?"
Ruth had been so absorbed in her dinner plans, she hadn't even
noticed two figures huddled in the alleyway. A man and a woman,
both of them dressed in little more than rags

"Look lady, I ain't got a job, ya know, and my wife and I have
been living out here on the street, and, well, now it's getting cold
and we're getting kinda hungry and, well, if you could help us. Lady,
we'd really appreciate it."

Ruth looked at them both. They were dirty, they smelled bad and frankly, she was certain that they could get some kind of work if they really wanted to.

"Sir, I'd like to help you, but I'm a poor woman myself. All I have
is a few cold cuts and some bread, and I'm having an important guest
for dinner tonight and I was planning on serving that to Him."

"Yeah, well, okay lady, I understand. Thanks anyway."

The man put his arm around the woman's shoulders, turned
and headed back into the alley.

As she watched them leave, Ruth felt a familiar twinge in her heart.

"Sir, wait!" The couple stopped and turned as she ran down the alley after them. "Look, why don't you take this food. I'll figure out
something else to serve my guest." She handed the man her grocery bag.

"Thank you lady. Thank you very much!"

"Yes, thank you!" It was the man's wife, and Ruth could see now that she was shivering. "You know, I've got another coat at home. Here,
why don't you take this one." Ruth unbuttoned her jacket and slipped
it over the woman's shoulders. Then smiling, she turned and walked
back to the street...without her coat and with nothing to serve her
guest.

"Thank you lady!"

"Thank you very much!"

Ruth was chilled by the time she reached her front door, and worried too. The Lord was coming to visit and she didn't have anything to
offer Him. She fumbled through her purse for the door key. But as
she did, she noticed another envelope in her mailbox.

"That's odd. The mailman doesn't usually come twice in one day."
She took the envelope out of the box and opened it.

Dear Ruth:

It was so good to see you again. Thank you for the lovely meal. And thank you, too, for the beautiful coat.

Love Always Jesus

The air was still cold, but even without her coat, Ruth no longer
noticed.

-----------------------

Matthew 23
Seven Woes
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesmint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawjustice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"


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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
92. Thanks for that
I was raised a Christian too, but the hypocrisy I've seen has caused me to turn agnostic. Still, I have never forgotten what Jesus taught even though too many so-called Christians have forgotten.

Many brilliant and kind men and women have walked the Earth. We would do well to remember what they tried to teach while they were here.

I wish I could recommend a post! I'm going to copy this and save it and use it!
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
70. what are you,
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 07:44 PM by leftofthedial
nuts?





;-)



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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #70
91. .
:spray:
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sheelz Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
75. Re:
"THANK YOU for taking out the godless thread"

I'm godless and I'm in your thread.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
76. Poor, poor victimized, downtrodden christians....
... it's sooooo hard for them to get anywhere in this cruel, cruel world... They can't get elected to office - o wait a minute - they're the ONLY ones who can get elected to office... They don't control any money - o wait a minute - they control VAST sums of money... well, it's STILL a goddamn shame they have to put up with a few mean words from people who don't believe in mythology. That's just going TOO FAR - what with all the other crosses (!) christians have to bear!

:rofl:
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. and the SPCA won't let us feed them to the lions anymore
Which is too bad because...well the OP could live up to their name.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. I have no doubt that, if Martin Luther King, Jr. was alive & posting...
... here, that he would also be greeted w/this same ridicule by a select group of posters here.

Sad.

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #80
93. thank you Sapphire Blue, I agree
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 08:55 PM by themartyred
I'm not even responding to the most ignorant of posts. Why? Because they pull the argument over to the debate of, "you Christians control everything, you have all the power, the money and you can't handle it when people won't obey your religion", -


sigh!

that has nothing to do with what I wrote about in the OP. They advocate hatred by approving the thread that many of us are upset by and the fact this thread is listed on the front page speaks to their not understanding why this is no different than advocating on a bumper sticker that abortionists need killed, gays need killed, illegals need killed, etc...


why approve of religious bashing, right? they argue a weak case, but it's their's to make and be in goose step with Coulter and her religious intolerance that also thinks its funny to advocate the murders of millions of muslims with nukes.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
77. "GODLESS thread"! Sounds like an Ann Coulter headline
Isn't it just a little inflammatory?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #77
82. That Was Part Of The Title Of The Thread In Question.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #77
88. come on, study up! :)
the original thread being discussed was titled '29 godless stickers', I couldn't post on it, apparently that was because it was just as the system was transferring it to the other forum, and so I thought it was locked. It should be locked because several of the sentences advocate sending Christians off to the lions to be killed, drowning Baptists, and just a general amount of hatred towards anyone of any faith, Jew, Muslim, etc. If it were saying that a great bumper sticker someone just bought said there aren't enough homophobes to inflict violence to counter all the gays (but in a much more hateful manner) it would be locked, or any other sensitive subject many of us believe or live every day.

I am so glad so many people have stood up against indecency and made this a most recommended thread. DU is an awesome site, and some people just need to learn the fine line of being satirical and advocating a slippery slope of "joke violence" that leads to bigotry, then that leads to violence in heated situations, then ultimately, as Bush is advocating - war against another culture and religion that is different than his, all while people like Limpbaugh and Coulter cheer him on in the name of their god.

DU YOU ROCK!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
85. Glad I missed that one
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 08:53 PM by LostinVA
All do the people I love are Christians. I personally don't believe "Joshua ben Joseph" was Christ, but I believe the message of the Gospels is a good one. It's only false followers of this man who sicken me.

I don't give a tinker's damn what religion (if any) anyone is, as long as they respect what others believe, an don't try and turn their beliefs into legislation.

Spirituality is so very personal...
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. well spoken. peace n/t
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
96. Locking.
Reopens a previous thread that is no longer in General Discussion.

Thanks.
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