Police ask me and my neighbors to spy on another neighbor

[RB TexLa]

Just got through with police officers asking me if what I have heard or seen regarding a couple that live near me. And asked that I call them if I choose to not mind my own business.

I don't think they were too happy with me, I told them nothing that goes on in anyone's apartment is any of my business and I will not be calling them regarding anything about my neighbors. I don't think they got much better response from anyone else, after they talked with me I heard a lady with a raised voice asking "is that all? are you finished? can I get back to my day?"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Go tell your neighbors.

[Perky]

9. I disagree.

Police snitch tactics aside. If there is suspected criminal activity, I would want them caught. Police have a right to ask you to help and you have a right to say no. End of story.

Not only that but telling them might get you an obstruction charge.

[earth mom]

15. How would you like your neighbors spying on YOU?

Sorry, but we should all be against "big brother" watching us 24/7! :grr:

[William769]

26. Well If I have nothing to hide, it wouldn't bother me.

[triguy46]

30. I'm not using this civil right just now...

so I don't mind if it is infringed upon...

[William769]

31. Want to explain to me how this is a civil right?

EDIT: Spelling.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Amendment IV of the United States of America...

rather strictly prohibits unreasonable searchs of Americans.

And cops asking people to spy on their neighbors, without any sort of jurisprudence, strikes me as particularly unreasonable.

[William769]

41. So If I watch what my neighbors does, I'm violating the Constitution?

Yea right! :eyes: Now if they asked me to peek in their windows, thats a different story.

Get a better argument.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. You'd be a creep, too.

But yeah, if you're spying on your neighbors for the cops, you're violating the Constitution. At least in spirit, and probably in letter.

[Rosemary2205]

71. If my neighbor were beating, molesting,drugging children you bet I'd tell.

Meth lab, prostitution, dead bodies in the back yard whatever -- You could call me unpatriotic if you want but I will call the cops if I suspect any of the above.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. That's great.

But if you were spying on me I'd report you for being a peeping tom.

[Realityhack]

82. Um...

You keep going on about spying... where are you getting the spying from? It sounds from the OP like the police said something along the lines of ‘please give us a call if you do see anything in the future’.
That’s light-years from what you have been suggesting.

It also sounds like the person you are debating is talking about telling the police when they see something in the course of an ordinary day. Not breaking the law to gather evidence against you. Where are you getting that from?

[liberalhistorian]

103. Now, that I happen to agree with, as I said in another post

here, there's a huge difference between reporting legitimate criminal activity and just spying on people for no reason, when they're not suspected of anything, or for stupid shit.

[Cleita]

116. That's the difference. If you suspect illegal activity going

it's your perogative to inform the cops. They cannot ask you to spy on your neighbor. They have other ways of getting information. This stinks to me of someone private trying to get some information about these people.

[Swamp Rat]

51. No, it means you are a good little Stazi

[tnlefty]

143. Again, way to go Swamp Rat!!!

and dicksteele seems to agree with you, and so do I!

[Richard Steele]

93. Unless you have the WARRANTED AUTHORITY to be watching them, YES.

If you are DELIBERATELY spending time watching and
taking note of your neighbors' actions, you are SPYING
on them. That is the DEFINITION of "spying upon".

And, unless you are a Sworn and Authorized Officer of the LAW™
AND you have a properly-attested and notarized WARRANT for that SPYING...

Then you are an Un-American, fascist-loving, JackBoot-licking
little TOADY;
A person who would be well advised to pull the BEAM out of
his apple-polishing little SnitchBitch ASS before he starts
making anonymous reports about the splinters in his neighbors' butts.

(Notice how I paraphrased JESUS there? PISSED ya off, didn't it?)

[NuttyFluffers]

129. ... and every now and again a sparkle of light comes to brighten my day.

and today this post was it.

not the most "subtle" sparkle of light, but entertaining and illuminating nonetheless.

:hi:

[kestrel91316]

134. You get the gold star for best post in a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hosnon]

102. I'd like to see the case authority here. The IVth only prohibits the

government or its agents from unreasonable searches and seizures.

If they ask you to, in effect, be their eyes and ears, that would be unconstitutional.

However, the IVth doesn't prohibit any citizen from doing anything.

[Realityhack]

106. Not entirely true.

Depending upon what you mean…

If when you say
“If they ask you to, in effect, be their eyes and ears, that would be unconstitutional.”
What you actually mean is:
“If they ask you to, in effect, be their eyes and ears in a way they would not be allowed to, that would be unconstitutional.”

I suspect that is what you meant it doesn’t come across in your post.

It is perfectly legal for the police to ask people to report suspicious activity. It’s even legal in many cases for them to ask you to report if you see a particular person (somebody they are looking for).

What they can’t do is ask you to in essence perform a search that they couldn’t. They can’t pressure you to snoop around for them. But they can say we have had some reports of x if you see anything let us know. When protecting the rights of someone who may be innocent this may come across as ‘if you do see anything please let us know’ or some such.

[Hosnon]

108. Well, it should have come across in my post because the line before that

refers to searches and seizures which are unlawful if conducted by the government...or its agents.

Then, I elaborated on the "agent" part (eyes and ears part).

[Realityhack]

110. Well...

Like I said I thought that was what you meant but I just thought it wasn't entirely clear. I think some people are talking past each other on this topic because of loose terms like that. One person says its not spying and another says it is because they are thinking of totally different activities and nobody is being specific.

[Hosnon]

111. 10-4. We SHOULD actually know better when it comes to legal language.

edit: As in I should have known to be very clear.

[Realityhack]

118. lol n/t

[Opusnone]

33. I pray you're using sarcasm but in case you're not

What's your full name, occupation, bank account information, and number of people living with you?
Since you've got nothing to hide. (sarcasm ON)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Let's hear his home address to.

And the name of the school his children attend.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

35. Not the point. Rights are rights, no matter if not exercised.

We're not living in the days of Beria.

[William769]

40. What right is being violated? Please show me what law is being broken.

Don't get me wrong I don't want to live in a police State, but what the police did was nothing wrong. The person opted not to help & thats ok too, thats America.

[Greyhound]

44. Did you forget your sarcasm smiley? n/t

[shanti]

56. THAT'S NOT THE POINT!!!

:grr:

[William769]

58. Then please tell me, what is the point?

[stlsaxman]

98. Read George Orwell's "1984"...

Under the rule of Big Brother it is ones civic, patriotic duty to notify the "authorities" if they see the slightest abnormality from the status quo- even if think whatever they observe MIGHT be out of the ordinary. If your neighbor says anything that sounds odd to you, tell Big Brother.

Nothing strikes you at all scary about that? :eyes:

[windbreeze]

78. ya know...I myself, am kinda sick of hearing that particular line...

YOU may NOT have anything to HIDE right at this time...BUT...what about down the road a ways??? OR say, when they make something YOU DO on a regular basis, against the law...THEN WHAT??? See when one person/group is targeted for scrutiny for any kind of action...then where does it stop??? and who's going to stop it...???
We are already being spied upon...through work, phone lines, internet, cameras on highways...and many ways we don't even suspect...to think my neighbors may be asked to spy on me....WOULD PISS ME RIGHT THE HELL OFF...even IF I had NOTHING to hide...
wb

[Nobody]

92. I have nothing to hide but

I have a hell of a lot that might be misinterpreted.

Care to listen to conversations with some of the players in my D&D campaign? They're discussing plans for the future which may or may not include touching off a civil war in a neighboring kingdom. But if you only catch half of the conversation, you'll miss the references to casting spells and making saving throws.

I have the right to play D&D and not have to explain it to the cops or anyone else unless I choose to. And if I ever get picked up by the cops for a gaming related comment, they will be treated to the longest, most tiresome "Let me tell you all about my D&D character" monologue I can come up with.

So, do you care to explain to me why you have underwear of a certain kind in your underwear drawer? You see, where I come from, only terra-ists wear that kind of undies.

[Richard Steele]

88. "Top Ten things a FASCIST would say", number ONE.

[Nobody]

89. Good. Please copy me on all of your private correspondence

And wait in your living room while I paw through your underwear drawer and make snide comments on the colors, patterns, and designs.

After all, you have nothing to hide, right?

[CarlVK]

91. EXACTLY the sentiment Stalin used!

During his reign of terror he told that to Soviet citizens, increasingly frightened by the out of control police state.

I'm sorry but when I hear citizens of a free republic excusing excesses against our privacy rights with "What do I care, I have nothing to hide" I get a little irate.

[liberalhistorian]

101. Oh, please. You're telling me that

you wouldn't mind being spyed on by your neighbors, with everything you said and did and anyone who comes and goes from your property being monitored? It has nothing to do with "not having anything to hide." What if you had an eccentric but harmless habit that your neighbors found "suspicious" just because they didn't like it? What if you were reading or listening to something they didn't like? YOU might not mind your rights being taken away like that, but the rest of us do, thank you very much.

And so who decides if you "don't have something to hide?" Again, your neighbor may decide otherwise when it comes to that weird but harmless habit, or that particular book you're reading, etc.

[leesa]

131. OMG...the Rush Limbaugh response!

[Beelzebud]

138. Spoken like a true Fascist.

[liberalhistorian]

100. I certainly agree with that,

and I find most attempts to get neighbors/co-workers/friends, etc., to spy and report on each other to be blatantly McCarthyist, unconstitutional, and reeking of a police state.

HOWEVER. There are times when it's necessary to do so. Not many, of course, but sometimes it is necessary. What about cases of child abuse? Are you telling me that if you heard and saw your neighbors abusing a child, that that wouldn't be any of your business? Are you saying that if you heard and/or saw your neighbor abusing his or her spouse or another family member that it wouldn't be any of your business? Are you saying that if you heard and/or saw criminal activity by your neighbor that it wouldn't be any of your business? (by criminal activity, I mean REAL criminal activity, and not stupid shit like smoking pot that isn't anyone else's business but that person's)? I'm talking things like assault, rape, theft, vandalism, kidnapping, etc., etc.

I certainly hope you aren't, because those are legitimate reasons to report on a neighbor and anyone who doesn't do so because it's "none of their business" is aiding and abetting in the crime. How many spouses and children have died and/or been badly injured because neighbors didn't think their abuse was "any of their business?" How many legitimate criminals have gone free because neighbors didn't think it was "any of their business" and/or didn't want to get involved?

There's a huge difference between spying for stupid shit that's none of the authorities' business, and that just serves to turn neighbor against neighbor, and real, legitimate criminal activity that people shouldn't get away with.

[William769]

59. Your welcome.

[Sequoia]

67. Disagree totally.

Back in WWII Germans were paid 5 Marks to spy on neighbors and look what happened to them....oven fried extra crispy.

[Perky]

77. Cops offered no money. it was at the neighbors option. He said NO...

Cops groused and went away.
If the cops suspect a meth lab a crack house, a front for prostitution...a pedophile, spousal abuse...whatever. as a neighbor I have a civic responsibility to my neighborhood to consider the police request to be vigilant. I also have the absolute right to say no.


Am I going to take the cops at their word? of Course not. Am I going to help them if I think there is good cause. you betcha.

[Realityhack]

81. Well balanced post.

I think we may have to ban you from DU now (sarcastic in case someone missed it).

I must agree. When a crime is suspected asking neighbors if they have seen anything is a perfectly legal investigative tactic.
The same goes for asking someone to call if they notice anything in the future.

[Sequoia]

99. I'm sure everyone would agree to that but

the original post made it seem as if the cops were up to no good. Which, they aren't most of the time. Beating's, racial profiling, dangerous to other car chases, pay offs....oh, I watch too much TV.

[Realityhack]

104. I actualy disagree.

The original post came off paranoid to me. As far as facts all I saw was:
Police asked if the OP had seen/heard anything regarding a couple in a nearby apartment.
Police asked if the OP to call them if the OP did see/hear something.

The rest of the rather short OP seemed to be inflection/opinion that seemed a bit paranoid. The OP seemed to take it as wrote without any basis that this was some kind of invasion of privacy. I saw nothing in the facts stated to indicate anything but routine police work blown out of proportion by someone who leapt to conclusions.

[Cleita]

114. Actually, if the cops suspect a meth lab or such other entity, they

need to go get a search warrant. Cops I knew told me that civilians were never used for investigations or sting operations. The only time a civilian is involved is if he witnessed a crime being committed. Then his testimony is taken to make a case.

[kestrel91316]

135. Well, actually they were a little more than crispy.

[sweetheart]

105. That's what i would do

I would go to my neighbor and tell them the cops were around asking me to nose on them,
and as far as i was concerned the cops had no business nosing, and that they should be
aware that the queenz sniffing about.

These people really do intende to test the "blood is thicker than water" maxim, daring, ya gotta give 'em that.

[Dorian Gray]

132. I wouldn't tell them...

Only because if they are involved in some sort of criminal activity, they could feel cornered and do something to you, presuming you are spying on them. Even if you aren't. If they are being investigated, they may be involved with something nefarious.

[MnFats]

2. got a local newspaper/broadcast station interested in 'big brother' story?

some media ought to jump on that ---- spying on neighbors. what a crock.
if your locals won't do it, contact the journos in the nearest large city.

[shadowknows69]

3. I'm smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood watch

with a person across the street that would make Mrs. Kravitz a hero of the fight for privacy (If you're too young to get the reference, tough shit) she even takes down license numbers of pretty much everyone that shows up at my apartment building. My landlord has a history of renting to some major morans (Shadow excepted of course) and the police are frequent visitors to our block.

[Swamp Rat]

54. LOL!

If I lived there, I would make Mrs. Kravitz look the fool everytime she called the cops. ;)

They'd eventually come to take her away to the insane asylum... "but he has ALIEN LIZARDS who come over every night in their UFO, officer!!!" :D

[Kurovski]

62. Excellent zombie gif.

Quite excellent indeed.

[Swamp Rat]

64. Way'at Kurovski!

:hi:

Do your neighbors know what you are doing?... what you are thinking?

THOUGHT CRIME! THOUGHT CRIME! THOUGHT CRIME!!!

[Kurovski]

65. They do!

And we all are of similar mind.

We all know that Bush is Satan's butt-boy!

[Nobody]

96. I have to know: Have you seen the South Park movie?

Satan was Saddan Hussein's butt-boy. So that makes Bush the butt-boy of a butt-boy.

[Kurovski]

136. So are you saying that Bush gets sloppy seconds?

:D Oh, no, wait...it's more like a daisy-chain in time kind of thing.


Yes! I have seen the South Park movie, BL&U. Super, thanks for asking!

[Nobody]

139. Well, I suppose we should just "Blame Canada!" n/t

[ceile]

4. Why? Was there some "shady" behavior previously?

Was this just out of the blue?

[RB TexLa]

6. probably domestic violence. the officer said he couldn't say

but I've seen her slapping him trying to get in the car with her.

[951-Riverside]

12. and even though you've personally witnessed domestic violence....

You're still not going to 'rat' out your neighbors to the 'pigs', incredible. I really appreciate your honesty with us but if someone's life is in danger I think you should speak out against it, if you saw a cop beating someone wouldnt you speak out?

[bettyellen]

21. it's disgusting, isn;t it?

hope the neighbor doesn't die or anything. her neighbors might notice and it might bother them.
:puke:

[MADem]

23. That sort of behavior is a "pick up the phone, call cops" offense, IMO

I'm amazed you could turn your back on that sort of thing.

For me, it's a no-brainer. There's a VICTIM in that picture who needs some help.

[LostinVA]

42. Did you call the cops when you saw him hit her?

And, if not, why?

[RB TexLa]

48. I only saw her slap at him from her car maybe she hit him maybe she didn't

I didn't pull up a chair.

[LostinVA]

76. oh boy

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

130. I'm sorry, but if you think it's "spying" to report domestic violence...

then you ought to be ashamed of yourself. That's not spying, that's being a responsible citizen. The woman's life could be at stake and you don't want the police to help her, because of some absurd "civil liberties" idea you have.

I'm against government spying, but this is not it. This is about a woman's life. You should care about that.

[seemunkee]

5. Did they mention what kind of behavior they were concerned about

I mean, if its a meth lab then Hell yeah I'd rat them out.

[951-Riverside]

7. ...Hmmm

...I don't buy that they just came up to you and asked you to watch someone without at least an explanation so why did they come to you?

[RB TexLa]

8. They went to several people

[Beaverhausen]

10. But they didn't ask any specifics?

This isn't adding up.

[RB TexLa]

11. They got short and walked off after I told them it wasn't any of my

business

[radwriter0555]

18. Domestic violence is everyone's business. No one has the right to lay

their hands upon another person.

As humans, it's our duty to protect those who are unable to protect themselves.

[MADem]

24. If you are seeing the bastard slapping his wife in the street, odds are

good to excellent that the woman is suffering much more behind closed doors.

If people aren't bothering anyone, or each other, that's one thing, but when one person is being bullied and abused by another, I just don't get how you can ignore it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Did I misread?

According to RG, the bastard got slapped by his wife.

[MADem]

28. Well, then haul her in...no one deserves to get beaten.

Unless she's belting him because he's beating on her...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. I agree.

I saw my neighbor spank her kid the other day. I'm going to set up 24 camera surveillance of her backyard.

[Realityhack]

86. What?!?

Where are you getting this reactionary BS from?
If I am walking down the street see someone smashing car windows… I call the police.
If I am in my back yard and I see someone punching someone else (violent, not messing around)… I call the police.
If I see someone spanking their child hard enough for me to worry about the child having broken bones or something… I call the police.

If the police suspect domestic violence… they canvas the building/neighbors and see if anyone saw something (in the perfectly legal sense of ‘I was walking up the street and I saw X’). It could after all be important information to know for figuring out and later proving that something do OR something did NOT happen.
If the police suspect someone of smashing car windows… they canvas the area and see if anyone saw something. It’s the kind of information they need to make a case or clear someone.

Its perfectly legal, perfectly normal, reasonable behavior that is important for society.
Its also perfectly legal and actually very important both for accuracy and for protection of the innocent for them NOT to tell you exactly what they suspect.

Just because police sometimes do indeed abuse power and break laws doesn’t mean every story that involves the police involves them violating someone’s rights.

You seem like you need to calm down and get a grip on what people are actually saying.

[RB TexLa]

27. only saw her slapping him once

out of a car window, for all I know she may not have even hit him, I didn't stay to watch.

I have no idea if they are married, brother sister, friends or what.

[slackmaster]

37. That's enough to qualify as "bad news"

If you care about the quality of life in your neighborhood, it's in your interests to either help them on a path to un-fuck themselves or get the hell out.

[johnnie]

49. That reminds me of what happened to me once

A girl I was involved with and I used to do that punchbug game thingie, just for laughs. One day her sister saw me do it to her and when we got home she freaked out that I was beating on her sister. We were both confused by what she was saying until I remembered the game.

Sometimes not everything is what it seems and by jumping to a conclusion too quick without knowing the facts, you can get people in a lot of trouble.

[LostinVA]

43. Are you really surprised, Beaverhausen?

[Beaverhausen]

68. I wonder if Sharon Stone is his neighbor?

Did you see that thread yesterday?

[LostinVA]

75. Which thread????

[Beaverhausen]

97. this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2138467

He changed the thread title from something like "who is this sharon stone person" and the OP said she was on "some show" and said being a mother is the greatest joy. Then he called her a piece of garbage.

[LostinVA]

113. Good grief -- how the heck did I miss this???

[LostinVA]

117. I totally missed this!

[bettyellen]

22. LOL, that wasn't the question.... which was why? and not how many

were asked.
grow up this ain't some big brother scenario going on.
you ought to know better- domestic violence is very hard to prosecute- timing is everything.
tks for doing what pretty much the rest of society does- look the other way.

[underpants]

20. OKAY, I don't want to get paranoid or anything BUT

My wife got a visit from a guy claiming to be DEA right after our daughter was born. He just showed up in the middle of the afternoon. He was supposedly asking about a neighbor whom I have since learned is, well lets say that they pretty clearly aren't doing anything near what the guy said they were.

I seriously doubt that the guy was DEA - he just said it and flashed some sort of ID- maybe he was a neighbor snooping around the new people in the neighborhood (we moved in a few months before we had our baby) or maybe he was a weirdo...either way we have never seen him again.

My mother has twice been baby sitting for us during the day and two weird-ish things happened with people in or around our yard.

I don't know and I don't want to think it is DU related (I know I haven't done anything to worry about) but my wife and I have had some discussions about it.

[Tesha]

60. "Excuse me, may I photocopy your ID for my records?" (NT)

[underpants]

66. Uh

I think the toner on the copier at our HOUSE was low that day :sarcasm:

[Scout1071]

13. Depends on the crime. Murder, pedophilia? Yep, I'm narcin'.

Weed? Get the hell off my property.......

[nosillies]

14. I wouldn't spy on my neighbors, but I sure as hell would report criminal

activities. Minding my own business in that situation can allow women and children to be beaten to death, burglaries and murders to possibly escalate in my area, etc.

[triguy46]

32. I think this is a pretty good approach...

I don't think good citizenry depends on all of us becoming spies on the neighbors.

[Realityhack]

87. Good to hear.

I am glad you posted. That kind of reasonable, well thought out response is what gives me some hope for humanity. Thank you for caring about other people regardless of wither they are threatened by state power or each other.

[Nobody]

95. That's reasonable

I don't condone violence that is obviously hostile. On the other hand, one night I saw cops harassing a neighbor because she was out after midnight on her way to the grocery store. It was a nice night and she chose to walk.

Last time I checked we weren't under a curfew. The neighbor was an adult, probably older than me, and her indignant yelling woke me up. I listened (how could I not?) and found myself sympathizing with her. She sounded perfectly sober, not hopped up on drugs, and why shouldn't she get groceries when it's less crowded? What if she just got off work? She was heading in the direction away from the bus stop and toward the grocery store. Not only that, I recognized her though I didn't know her name.

Next time I went grocery shopping, I went out around 2AM and walked. I also make it a point to walk through as many alleys as possible (my city council just proposed a law that would ban walking in alleys unless you lived in one of the houses. It didn't pass)

I'm Chaotic Neutral* Stupid unwritten rules get broken all the time.

*D&D reference

[slackmaster]

16. San Diego PD asked the same of some dear friends of mine

They were more than happy to cooperate in the police effort to get the crack-dealing scumbags and prostitutes out of the Section 8 apartment building across the street.

Next to that building lives a man they call the Block Captain, head of the neighborhood watch and very concerned about property values. He was also eager to help out, and took a bunch of pictures of people coming and going at all hours.

Two weeks earlier, the police arrested a convicted sex offender at the same apartment for failing to register his whereabouts.

A group of local residents and former San Diego City Councilman John Hartley had also confronted the landlord. The police joined them, and gave the landlord 10 days to get the drug dealers out of there or they would go to the Housing Commission and have the Section 8 subsidy terminated.

It worked. The criminals are all gone. Now the biggest problem is just a crazy guy who shouts racist slurs and swears at every white person he sees. The consensus is that he is harmless.

[leftyladyfrommo]

17. Only if there is violence involved-to children or animals or

anyone else. We don't put up with that stuff.

[bettyellen]

19. the OP thinks it WAS violence, and is determined to look the other way.

real nice buddy.

[RB TexLa]

38. I said probably just based on seeing one thing, honestly I have no idea

what the police could think is going on. I'm not going out of my way to become a witness to a crime. Sure it might be nothing, but neither you or I know. There could be something where my choosing to watch and make phone calls puts my life in danger. That is not my job, there are people who have chosen to do that type of work, I'm not one of them.

[RobinA]

50. It's a Fine Line

the police walk when asking people to look for trouble, which maybe is why they didn't ask you to look for X, Y and Z. The police asking citizens to collect evidence can be a warrantless search. The police cannot say, "Go over to your neighbor's house and see if he has marijuana growing in the basement and then get back to us." However, if they say, "Be on the lookout for anything funny" it might be more acceptable to a judge who has to rule on whether your report to police that caused them to get a warrant to bust down the door and find the marijuana growing in the basement was probable cause.

[bettyellen]

63. you actually have to take a risk to help someone in trouble, no shit

well. at least you already know what you're made of.
i hope you and yours never need to scream for help in the middle of the night, because you'll feel like a big, unworthy asshole.

[IdaBriggs]

70. That has got to be one of the most disgusting things I've ever read on DU.

Its okay for the POLICE to RISK THEIR LIVES to help YOU live in safety, but God forbid YOU do your DUTY as a citizen by PICKING UP A PHONE TO CALL IF SOMEONE IS BEING INJURED because you are more concerned with your own personal safety than that of other members of your community???

I have no respect for the attitude. Its YOUR JOB AS A CITIZEN to do everything you POSSIBLY CAN to create a safe community. If you don't want to do your duty, then why not just pay "protection money" to the local mafia? Or just let the "biggest bully" in the neighborhood take over?

This is a situation where "we all hang together, or we all hang!" If you can't be bothered to watch out and/or report dangerous criminal activity in your own neighborhood, then you are the next best thing to worthless. And quit pretending its a "big brother" situation -- you'd be one of the first to come down on how "incompetent" the public servants are when dead children are found in your next door neighbor's house because some drugged out lunatic decided to kill everyone when his significant other finally decided to leave him.

If this is really your belief system, one can only pray you don't learn the hard way how AWFUL you are being when someone else refuses to "get involved" as someone is stabbing you thirty or forty times over the course of an hour, perhaps? (And yes, that type of thing did happen once!)

[LostinVA]

115. It's your job as a human to help someone

I agree -- the attitude flabbergasts me, too...

[mmonk]

45. watching them is their business unless they can tell

you in some way why you.

[Kali]

47. If it was just a kind of "heads up, there might be a problem in the 'hood"

That is what I would do. If I saw violence or potential harm (exploding meth lab) I would call. Otherwise - yeah none of my business. And if they actively asked for snooping, fuck that it's their job, that is what they are trained and paid for.

[nini]

52. there's a difference between spying and being aware

If it's an issue where innocent people are being hurt, you owe it to them to call the cops.

IF the police are simply trying to get you to narc out someone because they're smoking pot or some minor thing like that - then give your neighbors their right to privacy.

However, if someone is at risk you owe it to the victims to call the cops.

[Opusnone]

55. Amen to that

Being a good neighbor doesn't require spying, only watching out for each other.

[bettyellen]

72. he's being melodramatic andcalling it spying because looking the other way

while someone is being hurt, would be judged as selfish chickenshit behaviour. yet this is what the OP plans to do. they've made that clear in followup posts.

[IdaBriggs]

137. You nailed it. nt

[renate]

53. the police probably aren't allowed to tell you what they suspect

Libel etc.

If I suspected my neighbors of crimes against persons--domestic violence, child abuse, etc--I wouldn't hesitate to call the police. In fact, if I saw, over a long period of time, lots of people going in and out at strange hours and only staying for five minutes, a la drug house, I would call the police.

I respect other people's rights to do what they want, but IMHO their rights end where they start to affect mine or somebody else's. People have a right to live violence- and abuse-free in their homes and I have a right to be safe in my neighborhood.

I also think it's a responsibility to tell the police if somebody's being hurt. It may be my decision to make to not tell the police about, say, drug-related activity, but I can't make the decision for somebody else to let domestic violence or abuse continue.

[Sammy Pepys]

57. Sounds like they're just asking you to be...

.. a little extra vigilant if you hear something going on. Nothing wrong with that.

[Swamp Rat]

61. Well, you seem to be getting both sides of the issue in this thread...

if, in fact, there are two sides.

Personally, I think spying on neighbors is fundamentally un-American. On the other hand, if I happened to see a neighbor hurting someone else, or animals, I would call the police. If the neighbors had a meth lab I would call the police because of the danger to others, but not for a few pot plants.

[Beaverhausen]

69. This reminds me of another strange thread you started long ago

one of my favs:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=529387

[SoCalDem]

74. Actually what they did is not as bad as it could be

What if someone in the complex/building/neighborhood called in a complaint against the neighbor.

Perhaps the police are trying to find out if this is a "persoonal beef" between two families, or if they really are a "menace".. By asking other neighbors if THEY have a problem with those folks, they might be trying to decide whether they will pursue the matter..

About 5 years ago, police knocked on my door and asked if we had had "problems" with a family across the street.. I said I did not even know them, and to my knowledge nothing "odd" had happened.. I asked why they were asking me, and the cops said that sometimes when neighbors have a beef, they call the cops and make stuff up, so the police will hassle them.. The cops said that they like to ask other neighbors before they proceed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. Shame On You If You Think Domestic Violence Towards Others Is None Of Your

business.

[RB TexLa]

80. I saw her slap at him one time, like I said in a previous post

I honestly don't know if she did or didn't actually hit him. I also have no idea and no concern as to what the police think is going on with them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

94. Oh Ok, Sorry If I Misunderstood. I Thought You Thought This Was Probably

what it concerned. If you actually have no clue, and just simply based on what you've already known of them you can't think of anything that's incriminating at all, than I guess I can see why you'd respond with indifference. I wonder why they felt the need to enlist neighbors. Kinda weird.

[Realityhack]

109. seems like a logical first step to me.

canvas the neighbors see if anyone heard or saw something. Seems like something that would be done for lots of stuff. Depending upon the allegation and details known or not known the police would be right not to tell anyone what was suspected as it would just be a rumor.

[SoyCat]

83. (Security clearance) We were asked about three pages of questions

about a next door neighbor who was up for a higher level of security clearance (worked for a defense contractor). It felt really strange but he really was a nice guy who was a model neighbor. There was nothing bad to report.

If we had been asked to spy by the police, I would have felt entirely differently about the situation.

[savemefromdumbya]

84. Ask the commanding officer why you were asked this

fortunately we know the police around here. They would only ask this in a general sense, if there was some drug-related activity going on in the area, not spying on individuals. Your thing is out of the ordinary

[Realityhack]

90. I wouldn't say so.

They may not even be legally allowed to tell you what they suspect because iit could be a violation of the rights of an innocent party. Even when they have some suspicion or another person has reported something they don’t want to just go spreading a rumor.

They definitely shouldn’t let you know what they want to know before they get an answer on what you generally may have seen as that would lead to people just giving the answer they think is ‘right’.

[Cleita]

112. I thought it was against the law to question witnesses (neighbors)

if there wasn't a crime investigation? Could these be just P. I.'s pretending to be cops to get some information about your neighbors for a lawsuit or divorce or something?

[Realityhack]

119. well...

only the OP can tell how the identified themselves. Sounded like they where prity confident it was cops though.

But there could be a crime investigation and they can’t tell you about it. Lets say it was domestic violence. Someone gets accused and they go canvas the neighborhood to see if anyone saw anything. They can’t say why because that would suck for the person being investigated if the investigation turned up nothing. They can investigate an allegation that may turn out to be baseless.
And as far as I know they can ask you to keep an eye out as in ‘we have had some reports of x if you see anything please let us know’. Or just please let us know if you see something suspicious.

As far as I know a criminal investigation doesn't mean they have to announce it even if you ask.

[Cleita]

121. My point is that they can't ask you to be part of the investigation

unless our rights under Bush are so screwed these days that we are actually living under a gestapo type of policing.

[Realityhack]

123. my poor attempt at clarification

Sorry I think I am a bit unclear on what you mean by ‘part of the investigation’.

Obviously they can question potential witnesses without telling anyone what they might have been a witness to.
And I believe it is perfectly legal for them to say something along the lines of ‘we have had a number of x in the area please let us know if you see anything suspicious’. Basically ask you to report a crime or suspicious activity you happen to come across. Even asking you to be on the lookout for something particular.

What they can not do is ask you to do is to obtain specific information, do specific things, etc. They couldn’t ask you to go into someone’s house and see if they had X in there. The kind of search they couldn’t perform. That would be using you to perform a warrantless search. I don’t think they could say we suspect X is doing Y and would appreciate any evidence you could provide because it would be an enticement to do exactly what they can’t (ie snoop around).

So I guess it depends upon what you mean by asking you to ‘be part of the investigation’.

I think asking you in general to report if you ‘see anything’ after questioning you as a potential witness to something is probably legal (That’s about what I can gather from the OP as what happened).

[Cleita]

124. Still sounds fishy to me and if what you say is true,

welcome to Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, Franco's Spain and Pinnochet's Chile.

If we have given away our rights in the Patriot Act and all the little additions to it, God help us.

[Realityhack]

125. Well I could be wrong

...it has happened before ;-)

But it seems to me that there is still be some distance between Nazi Germany and a police officer saying ‘please be on the lookout for Fred he is wanted and considered armed and dangerous’, or ‘we have had a number of break-ins in the neighborhood lately please let us know if you see something suspicious’.

Perhaps what the OP witnessed was over the line. Perhaps not. The OP seemed quite disturbed to be asked in the first place, but what little was described sounded like it was likely merely questioning a potential witness. That makes me think that this may well have been no more than a ’please let us know if you do see anything’. IMO that’s far from Nazi Germany.

I can understand the concern. And if there where details to substantiate that this was something out of the ordinary or I thought it was illegal I would be the first to suggest taking action. As it is it seems over-blown to me. If the OP is concerned that it was over the line they should call the ACLU and see try to get an informed opinion from a real lawyer on wither it could be illegal.

[whistle]

85. Did police divulge what your neighbors are suspected of....

...criminal activity, drug dealing, gang activities, terrorist witch hunts, domestic abuses, disturbing the peace, late parties....whatever? I think that if these neighbors are suspected of activities which would be potentially harmful <initial three rather than the latter four> to the neighborhood or apartment community, then a neighborhood alert would be in order and I would think that cooperating by letting authorities know whenever suspicious things are going on, would be for the betterment of both you and your neighbors. However, if no reason is given, or worse it is some kind of witch hunt based on racial profiles then the choice to remain uninvolved is entirely a personal matter. I am not so sure it is wise to tell the police you have no interest in cooperating with them. That would be my personal take on the matter.

[Realityhack]

107. See #90 n/t

[bling bling]

120. I disagree with your attitude.

Even though we have no idea why the cops are requesting assistance, I can tell you that the cops don't spend a whole lot of time just arbitrarily asking people to "spy" on their neighbors.

Even if a cop is bored out of his/her mind, (s)he's more likely to talk to his/her buddy or watch a portable DVD than go rooting around spying on people.

I know a lot of cops. And they're not going to knock themselves out knocking on people's doors in a neighborhood over suspicion of somebody smoking pot. So if they're bothering, then their suspicious of more serious criminal activity.

The idea of community, and law enforcement do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Here's the problem with the attitude that your neighbors actions are none of your business -- the cops usually can't do much of anything until somebody reports that something is going on. They can't stake out a house waiting for a crime to happen. But if the neighbors call and complain they can go to the house.

If the cops suspect criminal activities are going on in your neighborhood, asking you to be vigilant and to report any suspicious activity is the right thing for the cops to do if they are to fulfill their duty of "protecting" and "serving" their community.

And your neighbor who was rude to the cops sounds just lovely. I'm glad I don't live in your selfish neighborhood.

[Cleita]

122. It used to be against the law to ask civilians to be involved

in an investigation as spys. If the laws have changed that drastically, welcome to Nazi Germany. I agree that cops don't bother knocking on doors unless it's something like a missing child. They have other ways to investigate suspicious activity and suspects. A search warrant is a tool they can use. There is no reason to involve neighbors.

[Realityhack]

126. neighborhood watch is how old? n/t

[BoneDaddy]

127. Spying vs good citizen

Why is this an either/or question? Why does it have to be one way or the other? Life aint that cut and dry.

I am a good citizen. I do not go out of my way to intrude on any one else's business but I watch my neighbor's homes when they are away and organize block parties. We watch each other's backs.

I would never spy on my neighbor, but if I happened to hear the blood curdling screaming of their children or if something looks dangerous or suspicious, be rest assured I would contact the authorities and personally get involved.

[Cleita]

128. This is the difference. You contact them. They don't ask

you to sort of snitch.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

133. If a cop is asking you to keep an eye on a neighbor.....

...that person is probably up to something pretty bad. It's not like a police officer to be deperate enough to tip their hand like that.

It may also be a domestic violence situation. My next door neighbors have gone on like assholes for years beating the crap out of one another, but when one of us calls the cops, they "circle the wagons" and start acting like nothing is wrong. It's goddamn annoying as hell.

[XanaDUer]

140. Do you think it is because they are leaving fishes

on people's windshields? :shrug:

[Wonk]

141. ROTFLMAO (links)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2111755

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5615522&mesg_id=5633036

[XanaDUer]

142. Well, there *are* suspicious things going on

around there...