So how about we don't run another senator in 2008?

[Pawel K]

This is in response to the hillary clinton thread but I feel it deserves a new post.

Have we not learned a damn thing? Are people honestly looking at having another senator run in 2008? Can anyone tell me the last time that worked? When you have a senator Republicans can use their dirty tricks of saying this person voted against blah blah blah. Look at what happened with Kerry, I voted for the war before I voted against it. It gives them the perfect talking points even if those talking points are dishonest.

Bush - Not A Senator

Clinton - Not A Senator

Reagan - Not A senator

Carter - Not A Senator

In fact all but one of the above have been governors. Last senator to serve as president was Ford.

Lets look at the loosers over the past few elections.

Gore - senator until 1984

Bob Dole - Senator

H.W Bush - Sentor

I know the 2008 election is still a while away but I really hope we, as democrats, can look at history and learn our lessons. We can't afford another neocon to run this country.

[serryjw]

1. There is only ONE

JFK in a century. I have said this before and will agree this time....NOT a good idea.

[Pawel K]

2. I fail to see how we can be so naive, if dean got the nomination

I honestly think things would be different right now. I look back at the moment where he got a little too exicted and see that as the worst thing to happen to man kind in this century.

[serryjw]

3. ?? What does Dean have to do with this OP?

n/t

[Pawel K]

9. He wasn't a senator

[serryjw]

14. That's correct

Why are we discussing Dean than?

[Pawel K]

16. Because I feel if he had won the nomination he could have won the

white house. I don't think even diebold could have helped Bush if dean was running. Then again I could be mistaked, the american people might still accept the results if the exit polls were off 10-30% (you can't put anything past our media)

Sorry, should have been clear in my post.

[stillcool]

5. naive would be believing Bush won....

[Pawel K]

13. Sure, and I never claimed he did

however, it would also be naive to believe we shouldn't look at history and learn our lessons from it.

[stillcool]

15. well...if bush didn't win....

who did?...a couple of senators?

[Pawel K]

17. But do you honestly think the neocons will nominated someone as

terrible as Bush in 08? Almost nobody has as shitty of a record as Bush did in even 04.

[stillcool]

21. it isn't Bush's record...

it's the record of the republican party that controls both houses, and gives the nod without fail to this administration.

[Pawel K]

23. and you think americans are smart enough to know that

half of them don't even know there is an election coming up in 06 or that there is such a thing as congress.

Maybe you have more faith in the american people than I do. :shrug:

[UDenver20]

30. Actually, Dean's downfall.....

(Recognize that I'm a huge Deaniac...)

... was on 12/7 - when the US "captured" Saddam. He'd built too much of his message around how we hadn't found OBL, Saddam, WMDs, connections between Iraq/9-11 etc.

It was just really bad timing for him....

The yalp only exacerbated his decline.

[ArkySue]

18. Before JFK...

was Warren G. Harding(R) of Teapot Dome Scandal fame. President from 1921-1923.]

[Cooley Hurd]

4. First and foremost - Gore DIDN'T LOSE!

:banghead:

2. George HW Bush was never a senator (he was a congressman - his father, Prescott "Nazi Financier" Bush was a senator).

3. Ford was also a congressman, but was never elected President (nor Vice-President).

4. Gore was a US Senator from 1984 to 1993.

[Pawel K]

12. Fair enough

You are certainly correct and I agree with you on everything. Read my reply #6 about the gore thing.

[serryjw]

22. You can have a HISTORY

of being a senator as long as you went on to something else like VP. The problem is having a recent senatorial voting record the republicans can access and distort. this time it may not be as much of a problem because THEY may have a senatorial nominee.WOW! Won't that be fun having a year of mutual mud slinging.

[treestar]

32. Good point. Also, being technical, but Gore was VP, not a senator

[Jim__]

6. Yes, but - former Senator Gore won the popular election in 2000.

Why have the last 4 senators to run for president lost? Is it because they had been senators? What should we have learned?

[Pawel K]

11. And trust me, I agree with you

but because of our shitty laws and partisan judges he isn't president. I don't seee our shitty laws changing by 2008 nor partisan judges getting off the bench. If anything our laws are even shitter now and judges are more partisan.

[NoPasaran]

7. Ford---Not a Senator; he was a congressman

GHW Bush---Not a senator, had been a congressman

The last former senator to serve as President was Richard Nixon.
Before him, Lyndon Johnson.
Before him, John Kennedy.
Before him, Harry Truman.

[Pawel K]

10. I should have elaborated

You know what I mean.

[ArkySue]

19. Ford wasn't elected. n/t

[dflprincess]

20. And, before he was appointed vice president

he was in the House, not the Senate.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. People Like You Are The Problem, Not The Solution

Next you'll tell me that, since the Democrats embraced the DLC Republican-slightly-lite triangulation strategy in 1994, they've lost the Presdiency and both houses of Congress, and the country has gone far, far to the Right.

Hey... wait a second... uh... oh, nevermind.

[fedupinBushcountry]

24. Hogwash

First off Bush is in because of dirty tricks in both 2000 and they got even dirtier in 2004.

Second: Clinton won with only 43% of the vote in '92 and 49% in '96. In '94 the Republicans took over the House.

Yes Reagan won, but mainly because Carter was not very good.

Carter won because Ford was lousy and Republicans were tarnished by Nixon and Agnew.

Of all the Democrats that ran since the EVA passed Kerry received the most votes.

Carter: 40,903,230 ( also there was no war going on)

Clinton '92 - 44,909,806 43% ( again peace time)

Clinton '96 - 47,401,125 49% (incumbent)

Gore in 2000: 51,460,110 50.37 % ( we all know what happened)

Kerry 2004- 59,028,439 ( the most votes any Democrat has ever received)of course we will never truly know the real count, IMO.

[Pawel K]

26. Thanks for that, I am only 20 so its hard for me to know exactly what

happened in even the 1992 race. All I have to go on is what I can read about. (And I am not trying to say you or anyone else is old :toast: )

However, I still do not trust anyone with a recent voting record as I don't care who you are, with all the dirty tricks in the senate and the house being done by the republicans your record can be spun to destroy you. As serryjw pointed out the only time a democratic senator has won was with Kennedy 50 years ago. I simply wouldn't risk another election, too much is at stake.

[ashling]

25. A few minor details about your premise

Bush - Not A Senator

Clinton - Not A Senator

Reagan - Not A senator

Carter - Not A Senator

In fact all but one of the above have been governors. Last senator to serve as president was Ford.

In fact, all of the "above" were governors. And Ford was not a senator, but a Congressman. Also, H.W.Bush was never in the Senate.


Other than that, your pretty well dead on.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[carpetbagger]

28. It has little to do with service in the Senate.

The keys to winning the presidency for democrats is, in order of importance, (1) the ability to distill thoughts into unambiguous soundbites, and (2) the willingness to effectively stand up for one's reputation against baseless attacks and portray them as desparate and detracting. Senator Kerry couldn't do these things, but neither could Governor Dukakis.

[Pawel K]

29. But how are you going to do that if the right wing

owns pretty much every so called main stream media outlet? Because of the idiots living in this country talking points are what wins elections.

[Jack Rabbit]

31. Ford was never a Senator

Gerald Ford was the House Republican Leader; had the GOP taken control of the House in the late sixties or early seventies, Ford would have become Speaker.

Interestly, from the time he was a young man, it was Ford's ambition to be Speaker of the House. He had to settle for becoming President.