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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 07:55 PM
Original message
Connecting the dots -- this is a war about WATER
In the last 24 hours -- separate posts on DU have contained the information for us to connect the dots.

This is a war about WATER.

Last night someone posted about Tucker Carlson asking why the Israeli side of the boarder was GREEN and the Lebanon side was BROWN. The Lebanese Ambassador said it was because Israel had diverted Lebanon's water long ago. This trigger my memory -- WATER issues were forecast as THE major reason for war in this century.

I remembered reading an article about Israel threatening Lebanon with War about diversion of water.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2249599.stm

Sharon had in fact threatened Lebanon with war if water from the Hasbani River was diverted. That means water originating in Lebanon was not to be use by Lebanon on pain of war by Israel.

0 September, 2002, 17:39 GMT 18:39 UK
Israel warns of war over water


Then someone else posts an article about Israel's war plans were set LONG before the soldiers were capture. In fact they had been planning for this war for some time.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21...

The KGO liberal, late night talk show hosts were covering this topic last night as well.

Today a thread with this link was posted -- and within the link there was a link to a NEOCON website -- with a paper on WATER -- and the Middle east.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG21Ak01.html

half way into the article we find this KEY paragraph:

All according to plan
The world has seen this movie before. The seed for understanding the New Middle East war was sown 10 years ago, in 1996. Everything keeps pointing back to the infamous paper "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm", prepared by neo-cons such as Richard Perle, David and Meyrav Wurmser and Douglas Feith for Likud hardliner Benyamin Netanyahu.


And here is the cherry on the ice cream -- the Neocon link

http://www.iasps.org/nbn/nbn70a.htm

with this short passage (stay tuned for a Neocon list)

Thus, by targeting Israel's most vulnerable strategic asset, its dwindling water supplies, Syria has been able to position itself to profoundly influence Israel's bargaining posture over borders and security. This, more than any other factor, may be the reason why Israel has not committed itself to a written agreement regarding a redeployment to the June 4, 1967 line. To do so would be to signal an irrevocable surrender of both the Jordan River and the Kinneret. But renewed rhetoric in Israel seems to suggest that policy-makers are seriously considering just such a move. This would be a win-win situation for Syria. At best, Mr. Assad would not only score a major victory by gaining back the Golan, but also dramatically alter the water equation, and by extension the balance of power, between Israel and Syria. At the very least, the water issue could drive a wedge between Israel and Turkey.

As policy planners struggle to revive the Syrian-Israeli dialogue once again, resolving the topic of water remains the most difficult task for the two countries. It is also the most important. The way the water issue plays out will have major repercussions not only for Israel, but the region as a whole. The ensconcement of Syria on the Golan would allow Damascus not only to virtually dictate terms to Jerusalem, but exert influence over Amman and create a rift in the Israeli-Turkish military partnership as well. Given the signals made by Israel's continued efforts to reopen talks with Syria, Jerusalem has not yet understood the geopolitical significance of water to its relations with its neighbors. As a result, Mr. Assad has been given an incentive to continue to apply the appropriate pressure, diplomatic as well as military to achieve his goals.

Paul Michael Wihbey is a fellow at the Washington office of the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. Ilan Berman is a research associate at the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs.


www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

The plan for this current Israeli war is here

www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

and now the list of neocons

Participants in the Study Group on "A New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000:"

Richard Perle, American Enterprise Institute, Study Group Leader

James Colbert, Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs
Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Johns Hopkins University/SAIS
Douglas Feith, Feith and Zell Associates
Robert Loewenberg, President, Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies
Jonathan Torop, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
David Wurmser, Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies
Meyrav Wurmser, Johns Hopkins University

----------

I believe we now have the real motive for this war -- WATER.

Although I must say that the Hizbolla make great villains -- they are nasty looking people and they do really nasty things. What is to like --oh they do some good social work.

Ignore the magician -- try to see what we are not supposed to see.

STOP fighting among ourselves -- this is what the Neocons want. They know if they use the Israel victim card -- and play the emotional propaganda that we will turn on each other.

Right now the Israel people have bought into the skillful manipulation -- and the nasty evil Hizbolla has responded with missiles.

The real motive is WATER. And the real villain -- the NEOCONS.

We are being conned by cons.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. And as global warming increases
the need for water, especially in the ME, will be greater. Thanks so much for posting this!!!!!!
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frisky Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. But...
...the Israelis have invented and built MANY, if not all, of the desalinization plants in that region--why would they need more water? Isn't it the Lebanese and Palestinians that need the water?
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Irrigation, for one
Some of the answers you seek can be found in this thread where I have posted links to articles regarding Israel's need for water.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Good -- more resources! thanks -- I missed this the first time
DU is moving too darned fast.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I'm going to keep my Journal updated with WATER related research links.

These wars over water for the 21 century were predicted -- very often cover reasons will be used.

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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Do you think we could combine all the resource matl somewhere?
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 08:23 PM by theHandpuppet
There's a tremendous amount of good resource material among these threads and it's hard to keep up with such material being scattered. You seem to have done a good deal of work in compiling links. Thanks!
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. start a journal -- and add water related posts to your journal
right now that's the solution I've come up with.

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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Don't know if this is one of your links
But it's certainly a good one.

http://www.mideastweb.org/water.htm
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Problems and solutions -- good link with more maps
Water is a regional problem --

and this website has some regional solutions.

They don't feel that the major cause of war will be water -- although others come to another conclusion.

If the region can work together --

oh well we can pipe dream.

http://www.mideastweb.org/water.htm

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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. that is covered in the various research links below
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Desalinization helps to a certain extent --

but this requires a tremendous amount of energy.

I would suggest that you read the Necon's paper -- they are aware of technology but they say that WATER is vital to Israel.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Desalinization is EXPENSIVE
It's a lot cheaper to use "free-range" water
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. How many desalinization plants could they have built with the money they
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 08:39 PM by w4rma
use on bombs and bullets and tanks?

And after the Israelis are done bombing Lebanon back 30 years in infrastructure they how will they be able to build desalinization plants?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You silly goose.. What waste money on stuff like that
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 08:42 PM by SoCalDem
when you can get the water you need by trickery, and still have your "gun money"
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Because their population is growing faster than they can build plants.
Israel has massive immigration issues. Especially for people from the former USSR countries, because part of the Israeli charter is that no one of Jewish descent can be denied the right to work for citizenship. So there are a lot of people from the former Soviet states who are Jewish by descent but atheist or non-religious in practice who want a place in the sun and more opportunities.

Israel's growth is about 6% per year. That's huge. Further, Israel grows a lot of Europe's citrus and warm weather crops, so when they run low on water, trade suffers.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. Your post made me go "Hmmmmmm" because
earlier this year, on February 14, 2006 to be exact, the New York Daily News reported that there are more Israelis (from Israel) living in New York City than there are Israelis living in Tel Aviv.

I cut the article out and have it here somewhere because I found it to be so surprising.

There seems to be a concerted effort to entice more Jewish people to live in Israel for so many seem to migrate out especially to the states.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I have been told...
that there are more Polish people in Buffalo, NY than there are in Warsaw, Poland. At the time i thought it was a joke but afterwards asked someone who "knew" and he confirmed it. Seems weird, but i think geographically most of our cities are much bigger than those in Europe.

You can get some great Pierogie in Buffalo though!

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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. LOL! Good point!
Although this is not a comical subject in the least, your post made me smile.

I will certainly not quibble about the number of Polish people living outside of Poland.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
65. Tel Aviv is not the largest city, nor the most dense.
And yes, there is a lot of exit migration, but there's a large influx of migration as well.

There's also a huge number of people who come to the US to work or go to school for a few years and then move back, especially graduate school.

But it's still rooted in population pressure. Energy and water intensive lifestyles are becoming the norm, and even if their population had stayed steady, but their consumption had increased (as well as Europe's consumption of fruits and vegetables) they'd still be facing the same problems.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. About half of their water is used for agriculture..
mostly for melons and oranges which are almost all exported and provde scant returns for the people. Also, Israelis often landscape in a western style, wash their cars, etc. Conservation is heavily promoted, but enforcement has been inconsistent. There were plans to tap into the fossilized water which exists underneath the central desert. I don't know if they've made progress or not, but it could be an expensive undertaking. They had promised to share the technology with Jordan, with whom they have water sharing agreements upon which Israel has tried to renege in the past. I don't know that water is the main issue here, but it strikes me as a chicken/egg argument anyways.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wasn't there also something about the Iraqi
Garden of Eden wetlands being diverted to Israel as well?
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I'm researching this now -- here's a map and a BBC link
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 10:35 AM by newyawker99


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3754520.stm

Israel

With 5% of the world's population trying to survive on 1% of its water, there is strong competition for water in the Middle East.

A series of dry years - together with population growth - has recently increased the pressure. Both Israel and Jordan rely on the River Jordan - but Israel controls it and has cut supplies during times of scarcity.

The level of the Sea of Galilee has dropped in recent years, sparking fears that Israel's main reservoir will become salinated.

The Palestinians - whose water supply is also controlled by Israel - say supplies are intermittent and expensive, and that the underground aquifer which they share with Israel has become depleted and damaged through overuse. Israeli settlers in the West Bank use several times more water than their Palestinian neighbours.

To help ease the crisis, Israel has agreed to buy water from Turkey and is investigating building desalination plants.

More at link....
-----------------------------------------

EDIT: COPYRIGHT. PLEASE POST ONLY FOUR OR FIVE
PARAGRAPHS FROM THE COPYRIGHTED NEWS SOURCE
PER DU RULES.




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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Rent the video's or read the book Cadillac Desert...
all about our water wars here at home...fascinating and frustrating all at once.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. I saw a documentary recently about how the Dead Sea is drying up.
"Twenty years ago the Dead Sea water would have lapped at her feet, she says. But now, glittering in the distance, the sea lies almost one km away from the spa.

"We are watching the sea vanishing," says Ms Ayalon. "I feel like the sea is a dying man calling out for help and there's nothing I can do."

In the last 50 years, the Dead Sea, the world's saltiest body of water and lowest point on earth, has seen its surface area shrink by a third and its depth drop by 25 meters.

The water that once flowed into the Dead Sea from the River Jordan has been diverted by Syria, Jordan, Israel for agricultural and hydro-electrical projects."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4968942.stm
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Here's a map - worth a thousand words


Desalination is mentioned as an option along with a canal from the Red Sea and a desalination plant:

Possible options


Much needed tourist money could dry up at Ein Gedi
One solution for replenishing the Dead Sea, is to build a 200-km canal to bring water from the Red Sea to the region. Water could be pumped to Jordan where it could be desalinated to produce fresh water for Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

The remaining water would then flow from the mountains down to the Dead Sea. But some experts think that the concerned governments will baulk at the price-tag of a potential project.

"I think we have much more urgent problems to spend our money on," says Dr Arie ben-Zvi, former director of the Israeli Hydrological Board.

But others strongly disagree. "Nature gave us a gift and we're ruining it," says Ms Ayalon. "I'm afraid that when my three nephews have grown up that the Dead Sea will only be a memory."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4968942.stm

Another informative link -- thank you.

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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
52. It makes sense that water is one reason but don't forget overpopulation &
the need for land on which to put all those people.

Palestinians ARE crowded into a small area and so is Israel. Both groups need to get control of their populations NOW. Like any fundie groups, both sides think they can have 8 or 10 children and no problem! Yes, there is a problem whenever we exceed the carrying capacity of the land and water.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
47. Dead Sea is the lowest, and is drying up, but Israel supplied
by the Sea of Galilee, which is replenished by the River Jordan.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Zionists could not have picked a worse place to settle 6.5 million
...Jews then in modern Palestine. Perhaps 10,000 years ago at the beginning of Jewish history, the land that is now Israel was a veritable lush fertile land, because the ice age was ending to the north and the entire region including north Africa along the Mediterranean coast and inland for a 1,000 miles was tropical rain forest. But that all changed 5,000 years ago to the dessert that it is today.

Maybe the Zionists should have selected a more geographically fitting and neighborly place like Salt Lake City Utah to recreate the promised land of Israel.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
54. Palestinians could not have picked a worse place to overpopulate
themselves.

The point I'm trying to make is, don't blame it all on the Zionists---let's just try to get these issues solved instead of killing people, blaming and making things worse.
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Bushwick Bill Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Not to mix in I/P issues, but...
Here is an article on this very topic.

Oil, water, food. These are tied together more tightly than the Gordian knot. And the pressure of their convergence is highest where the resources are most scarce, or most hotly contested, or both: behold the Holy Land.
Instead of beginning an examination of Palestine and Israel with a study of religion and ethnicity (let's not forget that 40% of Palestinians are Christian), we should begin by looking at water.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/071404_jurass...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
brokensymmetry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. You could well be right.
I was reading "When the rivers run dry" - the whole
world is running short of water, esp. the ME.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. well, if this was a motivation, it would explain why they want to invade
~20 miles north of that border, to where that river starts
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yep!
"It is necessary that the water sources, upon which the future of the Land depends, should not be outside the borders of the future Jewish homeland," wrote Israel's former prime minister David Ben-Gurion in 1973. "For this reason we have always demanded that the Land of Israel include the southern banks of the Litani River, the headwaters of the Jordan, and the Hauran Region from the El Auja spring south of Damascus."
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. I've been saying that water wasgoing to be the next gold or oil for
a year now. No one has really listened to me. I agree with you that it's about the water.

I bet if we dig, we will find some dirt in our own desert areas that can be traced back to the water too.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. had a teacher in high school say that in the '70s
He said something on the order that wars would be fought over oil, but the more important limited resource is fresh water. Being from California, I had a feeling that water was somewhere in the mix.

And a second recommendation for Cadillac Desert- great book, well written, and should be required reading for everyone living west of the Rockies.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. A lot of people have been saying that..
for a long time now. I read an interview with Jack Welch, former CEO of GE, last year and even he said it. Bill Moyers covered the topic on NOW a few years ago. Back when I was in middle school, in the TAG program, we had government people come and talk to us about the issue of future water shortages and we were required to brainstorm solutions. Water shortages may not get the spotlight, but they are definitely being talked about and considered by people that matter. Unfortunately, many of those people are out to privatize water in hopes of making a bundle, exactly like the oil industry.
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
24. Gorbachov spoke about this 2 years ago
He noted that one of the great crises to hit the world in the next century will be lack of drinkable water. See his presentation:

(warning: opens pdf)
http://www.barcelona2004.org/esp/banco_del_conocimiento...

some quotes:
I would like to ask you to imagine a scenario: What would happen if one morning the people of the
rich world the US, Russia, Japan, Germany, Turkey, France, the UK, Italy, Spain, Poland,
Canada, Australia, The Netherlands, Greece, the Czech Republic, Portugal, Hungary, Sweden,
Austria, Switzerland, Slovakia, Denmark, Finland, Norway, New Zealand, Ireland, and Luxembourg -
all woke up to discover that they had no running water?

Government officials and experts would make it their number one priority and work around the clock
to restore the service and deal with the associated problems they would spare no effort.
The combined population of the countries in this unthinkable scenario is about 1.1 billion. But today
1.2 billion people in the world live this unthinkable scenario every day with no access to safe drinking
water. And 2.4 billion people are without access to sanitation.
According to reliable estimations it will cost 20$ per year per person during 10 years to resolve the
water crisis. Somehow we have been unable to find the funds to bring water to the worlds poor and
suffering, but it was easy to raise $70 billion in a fortnight in order to fight a war! This is a scandal.
WATER IS NOT A PRIVILEGE, IT IS A RIGHT!

Now, in addition to the issues noted by the poster, consider that Gaza is running out of fresh water sources:

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/water-0110.html

Salt in Gaza Strip water could destroy agriculture in 20 years
Denise Brehm, News Office
January 10, 2001

Lack of fresh drinking water poses a serious problem for the one million residents of the Gaza Strip, who live and grow food in an area one-tenth the size of Rhode Island. They draw water for drinking and agricultural irrigation from aquifers on the Mediterranean that are becoming saltier each year.

The United Nations Development Programme and United States Agency for International Development currently recommend that Gaza can maintain its freshwater supply by using only an amount less than or equal to that of its usable annual rainfall. But a study presented by MIT researchers at the December meeting of the American Geophysical Union shows that even if the residents stay within those quantity guidelines, the quality of the water will continue to deteriorate rapidly.

Because of saltwater intrusion from the sea into the aquifer, and recirculation and evaporation losses of pumped groundwater, the quality of the water is deteriorating faster than fresh rainwater can desalinate it. This means that Gaza residents must acquire water from beyond their borders, which are closed at present; build a large desalination plant; or eliminate agriculture within the next two decades, said the two researchers, Assistant Professor Charles Harvey and Dr. Annette Huber-Lee of the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering.

"We're not talking about a hundred years into the future," said Dr. Huber-Lee, lead author of the study. "I can show numbers that say it's a problem very soon. It's reaching a point where you have to decide what you are willing to impose upon people, and without additional sources of water, you finally have to eliminate agriculture."



The leaders down there know this. Both sides are competing for water and this is part of the overall causes of tensions in the region.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. So: they in effect move the boundary into Lebanon or make a
"demilitarized zone" that includes the disputed springs near the border - and presto! Israel gets all the water.

Yeah, I can believe it.

Also, ruling elements in the Bush Administration and in Israel's government WANT war with Iran. I do believe that they are trying to incite attacks by Syria and Iran so there is "justification" for a wider war.

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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
31. Water has always been something people have fought for so this being....
about water makes a whole lot of sense.

:kick: & Rec'd

:hangover:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
35. Correct
Leaflets urging residents in southern Lebanon to leave their homes and move north of the Litani River, 25 miles (40 kilometers) from the Israeli border, have been dropped in the region, the IDF said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/21/mideast/index...

More to the point, an officer in Israel's Northern Command, who dealt with Haddad extensively, claims that the Lebanese major made perfectly clear to the Israelis that "We will cooperate with you, but there are two subjects which are taboo - our land and our water" (interview, October 1991). Nevertheless, the then Chief of Staff Ezer Weizman (Chaim Weizmann's nephew) was berated by a member of the Knesset after the operation for not seizing the Litani: "Your uncle knew at the time the historic significance of the Litani," M.K. Cohen shouted (cited in Hof 1985, 24).

In the 1982 operation, the Litani was again the initially stated objective

http://www.unu.edu/unupress/unupbooks/80859e/80859E07.h...

From the Nile to the Euphrates - that's what they want and they don't care who dies to get it.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
36. Someone make a flyer....NO BLOOD FOR WATER!
I used to post about the secret plan to privatize the world's water. Nobody was interested so I stopped. I'll have to see if I can find all that stuff again. Blue gold is what they call it. It's the most evil plan I've ever heard.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. Water privatization
is my biggest fear. I don't post much about it because it puts my stomach in knots. I read posts about it, so don't think your posts have been ignored.

I received a brochure from Suez Environment in Paris about water privatization. They thanked me for my "inquiry" which must have been: What the hell do you think you are doing?

As bad as everything else is, water privatization is likely to be the death of many people.

Keep posting.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
37. K & R for making me go "hmmmm....."
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
38. CIA: "...water-surplus state in a water-deficit region"
www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/le.html

Lebanon
Natural resources:
limestone, iron ore, salt, water-surplus state in a water-deficit region, arable land


Contrast with:
Israel (from the same source)
Environment - current issues:
limited arable land and natural fresh water resources pose serious constraints; desertification; air pollution from industrial and vehicle emissions; groundwater pollution from industrial and domestic waste, chemical fertilizers, and pesticides



I think you're on to something here...

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. New link for cia publications fact book
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. This is what it says.
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 02:17 PM by lonestarnot
Irrigated land:
1,940 sq km (2003)

Natural hazards:
sandstorms may occur during spring and summer; droughts; periodic earthquakes
Environment - current issues:
limited arable land and natural fresh water resources pose serious constraints; desertification; air pollution from industrial and vehicle emissions; groundwater pollution from industrial and domestic waste, chemical fertilizers, and pesticides

242 Israeli settlements and civilian land use sites in the West Bank, 42 in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, 0 in the Gaza Strip, and 29 in East Jerusalem (August 2005 est.); Sea of Galilee is an important freshwater source

The Euphrates is drying up, which is no great shakes to Israel, but what condition is the Sea of Galilee in these days?

Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years.

Agriculture - products:
citrus, vegetables, cotton; beef, poultry, dairy products

Electricity - consumption:
39.67 billion kWh (2003)

This page was last updated on 20 July, 2006
What did they do remove 2004-2006
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thanks...(eom)
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
39. Water is the next Oil....
...I've read numerous articles and opinions that water will be the next thing we'll be going to war over. It will be the next natural resource that'll be in short supply due to overpopulation of the planet, pollution. Clean water will be harder to come by, and nations with the military might will take and control it from the rest. Just like oil.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. Also About Getting More "War On Terra" Support In The US
Do you want "Israel to cease to exist" is the new "do you want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. I agree with you.
Lots of synchronicity in my own life regarding water. War is always over resources--the religious aspect merely cloaks the real motives and riles the emotions.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'm not surprised, since I'd heard that water would be an issue
everywhere in coming years.

Thanks for posting. Recommended!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
46. Wikipedia info re sea of Galillee, not much about it's current condition.
The Sea of Galilee (Yam Kinneret) is Israel's largest freshwater lake, approximately 53 kilometers (33 miles) in circumference, about 21 km (13 miles) long, and 13 km (8 miles) wide; it has a total area of 166 km, and a maximum depth of approximately 43<1> meters. At 209 meters below sea level, it is the lowest freshwater lake on Earth and the second-lowest lake in the world after the Dead Sea, a saltwater lake<2>. It is not a sea by any normal definition; it is called a sea by tradition. The lake is also known on modern maps as Lake Galilee or Lake Tiberias. The name Galilee refers to the region of Galilee in which it is located. In modern Hebrew it is known by its biblical name, Yam Kinneret (helpinfo) (ים כנרת ;), "Sea of Kinnereth" (Numbers 34:17; Joshua 12:27). The name may originate from the Hebrew word kinnor ("harp" or "lyre") - which the lake's shape resembles. It has also been called the Lake of Gennesaret or the Sea of Gennesaret (Luke 5:1) after the name of a small fruitful plain which lies on its western side. The Arabic name for the lake is Buhairet Tabariyya (helpinfo) (بحيرة طبريا ;) meaning Lake Tiberias. Other names of the Sea of Galilee: Ginnosar, Lake of Gennesar, Sea of Chinneroth, Sea of Tiberias (Roman) and Waters of Gennesaret.

The Kinneret is fed by underground springs, but its main source is the Jordan River, which flows through it from north to south. The lake is situated deep in the Jordan Great Rift Valley, the valley caused by the separation of the African and Arabian Plates. Consequently the area is subject to earthquakes and, in the past, volcanic activity. This is evidenced by the abundant basalt and other igneous rock that define the geology of the Sea of Galilee region.

Due to its low-lying position in the rift valley, surrounded by hills, the sea is prone to sudden violent storms; hence the New Testament story about Jesus calming the storm. Indeed, the main feature of the lake seems to be its ever-changing character. It is still noted, as in New Testament times, for its rich fish stocks, and in today's restaurants, "St. Peter's Fish" (tilapia) is very popular.

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. current condition: Dangerously low at times
"Increasing water demand and some dry winters have resulted in stress on the lake and a decreasing water line, at times to dangerously low levels."



In 1923 an agreement between the United Kingdom and France established the border between the British Mandate of Palestine and the French Mandate of Syria. The British handed over the southern Golan Heights to the French in return for the northern Jordan Valley. The border was re-drawn so that both sides of the Jordan river and the whole of the Sea of Galilee, including a 10-meter wide strip along the northeastern shore, were made a part of Palestine<1>. The 1947 UN Partition Plan put this territory area inside the Jewish state.


Fisherman in the Sea of Galilee, 1890-1900During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Syria occupied the lake's northeastern shore. This map illustrates the border lines and the Demilitarized Zones at the time the 1949 Armistice Agreements were signed. In 1967, the State of Israel took control of the entire Sea of Galilee as well as the Golan during the Six Day War. Syria still claims the northeastern shore of the sea<2>, arguing it is a part of the Golan Heights.

Israel's National Water Carrier, built in 1964, transports water from the lake to the population centers of Israel, and is the source of most of the country's drinking water. Israel also supplies water from the lake to the West Bank and to Jordan (under the terms of the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace). Increasing water demand and some dry winters have resulted in stress on the lake and a decreasing water line, at times to dangerously low levels.

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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
49. At least a war over water makes sense.
All animals fight over scarce resources.

It's odd that they frame it as a terrorist war though, which doen't make much sense.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Terra terra terra. Load of crap.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
51. A great thread...
One of the best I've seen here in a while.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I don't know, but thought this one was pretty excellent
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. You're right another excellent thread!
I'm glad to finally see that the word is getting out. We see the sad state of the country due to the will of the people being ignored. The founders knew what would happen.

America owes Brad and Bobby much!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Yes! They know.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
55. This was a big issue in 2002 with Lebanon apparently.
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 03:48 PM by gatorboy
We were just too busy with other wordly events to notice.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/020911/200209...
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
57. I've posted extensively on the central issue of control of water in Iraq.
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 05:26 PM by understandinglife
The three things the neocons are focused are: 1. keeping the oil in the ground until they have total control on its distribution; 2. control of the key sources of water (Tigris/Euphrates river basin being the jewel in the mid-east); and 3. establishing strategic strike bases (e.g. Balad and al-Asad).

Guess what - they've succeeded.

American imperialism at its best.

Is it worth it ....



How you answer that simple question tells you and everyone else exactly what type of person you are.


Never Forget: George W. Bush willfully violated National Security to cover-up his willful launch of a war of aggression and illegal occupation of Iraq.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
58. may I introduce this thread from last evening this very thing
was mentioned last night about the water.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
60. Finally. A thread with substance.
this is how it should be done folks. Links, commentary, pictures and relevant narrative from credible sources.

Good job, delusional
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
61. I didn't consider this but hey, we only get M$M Whores in the USA eom
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niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
63. This post could be an epiphany for some. I recommend.
:kick:
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
64. Kick and recommend
:kick:
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
66. "WHY CARE ABOUT LEBANON? "
Water -
The Middle East faces the looming problem of water shortages because of both the area's hot and arid climate and its huge population growth. Aside from Turkey (which controls the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers) and Iraq (through which those two rivers flow), the only Middle Eastern country blessed with a substantial supply of fresh water is Lebanon. Its high mountain ranges capture and retain impressive amounts of snow and moisture for several months, much of which eventually feeds subterranean aquifers and artesian wells. The landscape is dotted with springs, small streams, rivulets, and several sizable rivers like the Litani. Between 80 and 90 percent of Lebanon's flowing water, though, is lost for that which is not absorbed into underground storage, ends up in the sea. Assuming all of Lebanon's future water needs can be met using half of this wasted amount, harnessing and distributing the remaining half to neighboring countries like Israel, Syria, and Jordan would be a significant step in alleviating the impending regional water shortage.

Thus, could the responsible regulation and scientific management of Lebanon's naturally abundant water supply be a major contributor to regional stability. Any Syrian attempts to gain leverage over Lebanon's water supply can only serve to undermine regional peace and stability, and so the United States strategic interest to ensure that this precious commodity not fall under the control of hostile powers.

http://www.meforum.org/research/lsg.php

From:
The Middle East Forum - Promoting American Interests
Ending Syria's Occupation of Lebanon: The U.S. Role
Report of the Lebanon Study Group

Daniel Pipes and Ziad Abdelnour, Co-Chairs
May 2000


Among the Signatories:

Elliott Abrams, formerly assistant secretary of state, is president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
Douglas Feith, formerly deputy assistant secretary of defense for negotiations policy, is a founding member of the law firm Feith and Zell, P.C.
Frank Gaffney, formerly acting assistant secretary of defense for International Security Policy, is director of the Center for Security Policy.
Jesse Helms (R-SC) is the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Jeane Kirkpatrick, formerly permanent U.S. representative to the United Nations, is senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.
Richard Perle, formerly assistant secretary of defense for International Security Policy, is a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.
Daniel Pipes is director of the Middle East Forum and author of three books on Syria.
Michael Rubin is a Soref Fellow at The Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a lecturer at Yale University.
David Wurmser, is a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.
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