What If Turkey Were To Act Like Israel

[wellst0nev0ter]

In the last few weeks, Turkey has lost 14 troops to Kurdish terrorists who come from the Kurdish Worker Party located exactly in northern Iraq.

For all those posters who support Israel, would Turkey be right to bomb Baghdad Airport? Sadr City? The Green Zone "parliament"? Since the people of Iraq failed to disarm the Kurdish terrorists, they deserved to be punished, right?


I sure hope I'm not being too sarcastic.

[NoPasaran]

1. No, you're just sarcastic enough

Try to raise it up a notch.

[wellst0nev0ter]

4. Sorry, I'm Afraid Of Being Accused Of Being Anti-Semitic

I stopped commenting on I/P affairs since 2002 because I can't really match the rhetoric coming from the other side :eyes:

[AliceWonderland]

24. Yes, excellent and necessary level of sarcasm

Serves as ironic commentary.

Damn, I hate war.

[Beelzebud]

2. Actually that is an excellent point, and it really puts this in context.

[papau]

14. I agree - Turkey has crossed the border and bombed the Kurds - of course

the Kurds they are chasing are their own citizens who use the Kurdish area of Iraq as a safe haven after their terrorist killing of other Turkish citizens brought the military to their home villages.

It is an interesting question and even more on point because Turkey has moved 15,000 troops to the Iraq border and has informed the US that if it can not convince the local Iraqi Kurds to kick their terrorist cousins back into Turkey, they will invade.

For some reason there has been a media blackout on this for the last 20 or so days.

I wonder if they have invaded and we are just not being told about it.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[wellst0nev0ter]

7. No, They Are "Terra-ists"

Turkey however, is a sovereign country with the "right to defend itself", see how that works ;)

[Malikshah]

5. With that logic-- any Canadian or Mexican who crosses the border

and commits a heinous crime-- the fire will rain down upon their home countries...

Interesting, but-- as ever, it shows the weakness of the "defense" argument

BTW -- the same ruse "Defensive strikes" were used in 1956, 1967, 1978, 1982

[JackNewtown]

6. Turkey would be justified in attacking terrorists...

...just like Israel is. The problem is Israel's overreaction that is decimating Lebanon's infrastructure and may cause the pro-US government to fall in favor of a pro-Syria goverment. Israel's actions are also doing serious damage to the American war on terror. How many terrorists is this creating? We need to view Israel through the prism of America. Too many people view it through the eyes of a detached third party, or in some cases the eyes of either Israel or the Arabs.

Turkey does not have AIPAC so you could expect sanity from the US Congress regarding its actions.

[wellst0nev0ter]

12. I'm Afraid Of Turkey Undoing All The Hard Work

the U.S. has been doing in Kurdistan if they attack the PKK leadership there. But you have the right idea. I'm just so sick and tired of the one-sided dialogue we have here.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. How about Iraq?

Don't the Iraqis have the right to exist?

Don't the Iraqis have the right to defend themselves?

Don't the Iraqis have the right to launch attacks against the US and US interests?

Iraq did not attack the US. The US invaded a sovereign nation, overthrew their leadership and destroyed their country. But I suppose the Israel supporters will claim that this is not the same thing?

[Monkeyman]

11. Ash Hastert he didn't stop Turkey before opps that right paid not to

[wellst0nev0ter]

13. Hmm, Didn't Think About That

God forbid we ever turn into a third world nation without the means to protect ourselves.

[LynnTheDem]

9. 14 killed; Israel had 2 kidnapped. So Turkey should be allowed

to not only bomb the fucking crap out of everyone in Iraq, but at least a couple other nations, too.

And as Isreal killed 8 Canadians, Canada of course should "massive retaliation" on Israel.

Etc.

:sarcasm:

After all, Iraq did nothing whatsoever to anyone...and look what bush did and is doing to Iraq.

Any nation can attack any other nation for no reason whatsoever. It's the bush Doctrine and if it's good enough for America, it's good enough for the world.

Rightwingnuts; stupidest MFers on the planet.

[Name removed]

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[bloom]

23. "After all, Iraq did nothing whatsoever to anyone..."

Some people say - that Saddam supported suicide bombers against Israel.

For some people - that might justify what the US has done in Iraq (that argument makes the most sense if you think of the US and Israel and basically the same country).

Also - according to Israel - Iran and Syria are working against Israel through Hezbolla - so for some people that justifies bombing Lebanon, Syria and Iran.


Of course there are all kinds of countries that could attack us - with that sort of logic - for that matter.

[AX10]

10. Turkey has a history of attacking the kurds.

The Kurds were defending themselves. I wouldn't trust the "Turkish Weekly News".
This is not the same case as what happened in Lebanon.

[Name removed]

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[hiaasenrocks]

17. If you don't like that source...

how about this one?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19859184-2703,00.html

[Hardrada]

19. Not to mention what they did to the Armenians

which we aren't supposed to criticize either because of their alliances.

[AX10]

33. Exactly.

I have no regard for Turkey.

[knitter4democracy]

34. The Kurds, the Armenians, the Greeks . . .

Frankly, Turkey was a bad example here. They have a long history of ethnic cleansing within their borders and invading other countries, too. Just ask any Greek how much they like the Turks.

[Wisconsin Larry]

18. Actually, I am afraid that instead of sarcastic you may be prescient.

One of the many consequences I have worried about with the US preemptive invasion of Iraq is that other nations in the Middle East will see invasion as legitimate foreign policy with no consequences from the world community.

Well Israel has now been allowed this disportionate response to a kidnapping of 2 of its soldiers. Bombing Lebanon into rubble seems to be a "legitimate" response at least by the US government who has given Israel the "green light" for one to two weeks.

Turkey is more than ready to "protect" itself from Kurdistan by attacking first -- another preemptive strike legitimized by the Bush administration. See http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/15080730.htm for more on this story.
"ANKARA, Turkey - The Turkish military is moving forward with plans to send forces into northern Iraq to clear out Turkish Kurdish guerrilla bases, the prime minister said Wednesday."

This "war on terrorists" is putting the Middle East in flames and the dead that are piling up are innocent civilians.

So who are the real terroists?

[wellst0nev0ter]

28. Aw Geez

this moron is leading this world to hell in a handbasket.

[Lefty48197]

20. Ridiculous question. You CAN'T compare Hezbollah and their long history

of all out war against Israel to the recent actions of the Kurdish rebels. Did the Kurds lob 1500 rockets into Turkey in the last week like Hezbollah has?

The Israeli bombing of the infrastructure facilities in Lebanon is meant to eliminate Hezbollah's ability to move troops and weapons, because Israel is about to invade and start wiping out all the militants who have been trying to exterminate the Israeli's for all these years. The Lebanese have already kicked out the Syrians who were controlling Hezbollah. They're now a snake without a head.

The real question regarding the Kurds is whether or not there will be a nation named Kurdistan in the near future. I think there should be and I think the land should come from Iraq and Turkey.

edited to correct my mistake of typing Hamas when I should have typed Hezbollsh. Sure wouldn't want to get any rude responses from "certain" posters.

[manic expression]

22. Are you sure?

Do you mean Hezbollah? Hamas is Palestinian, Hezbollah is associated with Lebanon. I'm very tempted to make a rude comment about your mistake, but I'll let it go.

The Israeli bombing of infrastructure does nothing against Hezbollah, it hurts the Lebonese people, and that is the point. Israel wants to injure and punish all of Lebanon because Israel wants to assert its dominance and continue its unjust domination over others. That you would try to rationalize the targeting of infrastructure is ridiculous, it is nothing short of criminal and terrible in every way.

How were those militants so close to "exterminating the Israelis"? Last I checked, Hezbollah and Israel were going tit-for-tat with cross-border attacks (projectiles) for awhile before this (nothing that serious if you consider the situation), which can scarcely be considered anything of what you mistakenly project it as.

The bottom line is that Israel has been committing stark injustices and crimes upon the people of Lebanon, they have no justification, they have no reason for doing the terrible atrocities they are doing. There can be no rationalizing this delusional wrongdoing of Israel.

[Lefty48197]

25. I did mean Hezbollah, but I feel the same way about Hamas too.

They don't represent ordinary Muslims, they are gangs of murders who won't stop killing until they're dead.

Hezbollah uses the Lebanese infrastructure for military purposes. They transport guerillas and their weapons and their movements have now been shut down. They are sitting ducks, and they are about to get wiped out.

Bullshit. Israel does NOT want to punish Lebanon. They are smart enough to realize that their Hezbollah enemies are not the people of Lebanon. Far from it, in fact.

War is war. When people attack you, you must defend yourself, even if that means killing them. When Hezbollah declared war on the people of Israel, they painted targets on their own foreheads. First you take out their infrastructure, then you invade, then you incapacitate the people that are trying to kill you. It's an ancient practice.

[manic expression]

26. No

The Lebanese people use the Lebanese infrastructure far more than any militant group ever could. Come on, you can't seriously believe that Hezbollah heavily relies on infrastructure for movement. That's just ridiculous, so do explain how it is not. So what is it? Are Hezbollah fighters riding trains to the border? Seriously, explain yourself.

Israel IS punishing Lebanon. They have been bombing the entire country into oblivion and you have the AUDACITY to say that it is not the case? Give me a break, anyone who looks at the situation with a shred of objectivity can easily say that Israel is trying to punish all of Lebanon for practically no good reason, and it has displayed this sort of belligerent and base attitude extensively before (quite a bit). So a group kidnaps a couple soldiers and now an entire COUNTRY is "fair game" for destruction? You CANNOT be serious, as that smacks of pure ignorance and a lack of a remote sense of decency.

No, injustice is injustice. When a force puts an entire people to the sword without ANY justification, that is undeniably wrong. When a country has a mountain of wrongdoing heaped upon it, that is clearly unjust. When Israel claims it is "defending" itself while in reality there never was a significant attack (not to mention the FACT that Israel created the circumstances and environment which led to the "original" act in the first place), when the truth is that Israel is wrongfully murdering people, it is insane to say they are defending anything.

When Israel decided it wanted to hurt the people of Lebanon, they simply poured paint upon countless foreheads, upon the foreheads of children, women and innocents; upon the foreheads of villages and towns and cities; upon the forehead of justice itself. Israel's time-honored practice: claim nonexistent justification, then hurt and punish and more.

[Lefty48197]

31. "... there never was a significant attack ..." - Are you serious?

Hezbollah has never launched a significant attack against Israel? I guess the world press has been making up all those suicide bombing reports and rocket bombing reports over the decades, eh?

A Democratic Lebanon will be Israel's best friend in the middle east. Getting the Syrian Hezbollah guerillas out of Lebanon gives the Lebanese their best chance at attaining a peaceful democracy. To claim that the Israelis are punishing Lebanon, or that they hate the Lebanese is ridiculous.

[manic expression]

32. Read the post, comprehend reality

Maybe that'll help. No, what prompted Israel's demolition of Lebanon cannot be seriously described as a "significant attack". If you are trying to portray what Hezbollah did as that, you are patently wrong, delusional and insane. You know as well as I do that the thing Israel is trying to use as justification is not a "significant attack". Get a grip.

And when those attacks did occur in the past, it was off to the artillery for Israel. They were going tit-for-tat, nothing close to resembling what you falsely believe it to be (this is all ignoring the fact that Israel was responsible for the circumstances which prompted those actions).

A flattened Lebanon is Israel's goal in the Middle East. Lebanon has representation, but since when did you care? Hezbollah has been participating in electoral politics, they have won some (not many) seats in the government. Israel will never have a friend in the Middle East if they keep treating everyone like something to wipe off its boot. The fact is that until Israel starts treating people with a shred of respect or decency, there can be little possiblities for progress.

The fact is that Israel IS punishing Lebanon, your insistence on the contrary does nothing to change this. There is no justification for what Israel is doing, and what Israel is doing is going on a rampage against an entire nation (again, without any real reason). Infrastucture is being specifically targeted, infrastructure that civilians depend on; far more innocent people are being slaughtered than fighters; Israel is reducing a city to rubble YET AGAIN; need I continue (I can, by the way)? Just look at what's going on and that much will be clear.

[Sensitivity]

27. Kurdish resistance against Turkey has a much longer history than Hezbollah

fighting Israel.

[wellst0nev0ter]

29. Um, PKK Was Formed In The Mid Seventies.

Of course it has a long history of violence against Turkey and other states. And you know full well the rocket attacks are in direct response to Israeli bombing. Do you want Turkey to start bombing inside Iraq in order to fulfill your strict parallelism?

[liberalpragmatist]

21. Actually, they're threatening too

Which would make things an even bigger clusterfuck than they are already.

[Rex]

30. Oh my how we can spawn so many hypotheticals now that the US

has opened the gates to war. What if India were to act like America? What if Venezuela were to act like China? What if Russia becomes a free-market oligarchy? What if China does?

So many new ways.