Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Olbermann going after Novak/PLame

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:03 PM
Original message
Olbermann going after Novak/PLame
David Shuster coming on with report

says RN called Bill Harlow, CIA, as his source, and Rove, I think as confirmatory source
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shuster says Harlow DENIED Novak's version of events
getting interesting
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Tell us more. Can't get it here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. will try...not good at this
says Fitz is going after WH, and reminds us that Libby is indicted for LYING about his role.

uses the word "intrigue" to describe what's going on

if nothing was wrong, of course, WHY did Libby LIE about it?

huh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Libby has to give up Cheney. That's the only way we'll get a win out
of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. makes sense, but I don't see how that happens
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 07:24 PM by Gabi Hayes
looking more and more like appeal city, if he gets convicted, or a plea, followed by a VERY light sentence, followed by an Xmas 08 pardon, just like his daddy did with the Iran/Contra Six
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'm so depressed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. they just quoted Novak, who says Harlow's version differs in recollection
with his

Shuster says Novak hasn't shed any new light

What about Armitage?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rsmith6621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. So Fitzgerald Wasted our Time


This kinda crap makes me glad I am out of the loop for 4 days a week...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. yea he really turned out to be
a big disappointment to me-I had high hopes that someone would hold these bastards accountable-wasn't Fitz was it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. He didn't have 70 million dollars and the carte blanche to torture
his witnesses, like Starr did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Dana Milbank on now
it's all about Scooter Libby now, but that wasn't the original 'crime'

DM: something 'naughty' happened, but it's something that's going to be hard to prove

KO: did Novak get thru this unscathed?

DM: "he certainly took a less stringent standard than Judy Miller did". Novak's been in this business for 50 years, and will probably come out of this fine. It looks like the WH will, too?

KO: has the Bush WH come out unscathed?

DM: may have contributed to the eroding of his poll numbers. the Libby trial will come conveniently between the elections, so it's water under the dam for the admin.




so he predicts that they're CLEAR...it's over
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. KO explains last night's :format change==nothing permanent
he merely had a dinner reservation

WooHoo!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. See, we told ya. :-)
He wasn't even watching the Home Run Derby!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. keith had to explain himself to us
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 08:49 PM by alyce douglas
the guy had to go to dinner, but, there must have been alot of e-mails to catch his attention, so if all of us speak out in other matters, people have no choice but to listen to us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. We have had rainfade on our satellite for the last 20 minutes so
keep us posted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. that was it....the last Milbank quote said they were home free,
basically.

off to the dustbin of history...down the memory hole

they get away with it again, it would seem

still holding out in hopes that the Libby trail will reveal something

or, god forbid, an actual reporter will pretend he's back in 1972. not holding breath on that one, though
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wasn't too much "going after" going on there...
not much left to this story :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. ain't it?
I posted immediately, while he was talking about Novak/Harlow. It sounded like they were going to make something out of the disparity between their versions of what happened, but only went on to put a cap on it.

too bad he ALways has to have that sneering twit Milbank on. one of my few complaints about the show

he needs to get somebody on with a more skeptical POV regarding the WH


that said, he probably can't, given his own characterization of his show as being left leaning, as opposed to EVERY other M$M show on the air
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I was dissapointed after watching that
I was sure you had posted before the story had played - oh, well. One less thing to discuss here :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. wellllll......Novak still hasn't publicly revealed who the
primary leaker was, IIRC.

since that person hasn't been mentioned OR indicted by Fitz, what does that mean, exactly?

where's H2O man?

think I'll check firedoglake

she's certain to have some thoughts on this latest
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. How come I didn't catch that until Scarborough cam on?
How did I miss that he only revealed two out of three?

Anyway, I'm going to avoid speculation from this point on - anything that comes from this heading forward is gravy at this point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. End of story. Its all "water under the gate", not Watergate
So WHO was Novak's primary source???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. just checked firedoglake, and found nothing at all on this
surprised by that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. People who have been waiting around for Patrick Fitzgerald to hold the
Bush junta accountable had better go live in a country with a King where Royalty rules. The Bush junta is OUR responsibility--collectively, as a people. It is WE who must find the way to hold them accountable. I don't think that's possible until we can achieve transparent elections once again. I think we do have a chance at that, but the window of opportunity may be a narrow one. A couple of years, at best. Then it will be a lot more difficult to get our country back. If we go through another two Diebold elections, we may end up so impoverished and demoralized that it will take decades--as it has in South America. Things are finally turning around there, though--with a lot of hard work by various groups on TRANSPARENT elections--which should be an inspiration to us.

To expect one prosecutor to achieve this miracle is unfair to the prosecutor--and it is very unrealistic. One can hope, of course, that he is a "white knight" and can achieve public accountability for this extremely corrupt and dangerous regime, on the issues of the Plame and Brewster-Jennings outings. But I think that anyone who has EXPECTED that to happen--and who now is all sour grapes and saying that he (Fitzgerald) "wasted our time"--has a pretty short attention span, for one thing. Like a child saying "Are we there yet?" Impatient, whiny, juvenile. And such reactions also indicate little understanding of the case--including the dark underside of this case--and of what Fitzgerald has been up against from the beginning: Obstruction by the President, by the Vice President, by the Attorney General, probably also by the Secretary of Defense (my pick for mastermind), by the Secretary of State, and by a number of top aides, not to mention at least two journalists. That Fitzgerald could get ANYWHERE--that he could, for instance, catch Libby at lying and obstruction--is a major accomplishment in what was surely one of the most widespread Executive Branch coverups in our history, with layers upon layers of lies and coverup stories, and very probably even darker deeds beneath all that flak.

We also don't know what may have happened behind the scenes. Obviously something did happen, recently--with the flurry of rumors about a Rove indictment, and two people now claiming they're off the hook (Rove and Novak). (Fitzgerald has said NOTHING, however--no confirmation, no denial, no clearing of their names.) It FEELS LIKE Fitzgerald has gotten something--perhaps testimony against Libby or Cheney. We can't know yet. And he always has the option of a Grand Jury report (with "unindicted co-conspirators" --especially re: Bush and Cheney, whose prosecution, I think, would have to go to Congress).

I DON'T THINK it's over. But I think we should bear in mind that, in this utterly filthy and highly dangerous political climate, ANYONE can be threatened or bought--or just get very tired, and give up. Even "White Knights."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Well said.....covers most of the bases very realistically
seen this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1613013

Novak's a full of s*** as always

don't think they covered any of this tonight. have to check rerun
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. from the most excellent kpete:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
27. so clarify this for me? Rove comes out clean in this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-12-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Rove will never be clean, and isn't clean on this, but it is a good
possibility that Libby (and by extension Cheney) set him up to take the rap. There is reference in Joe Wilson's book to a dustup between Rove and Libby on this very point--Rove throwing a fit about getting caught holding the bag. I think it's even possible they misinformed him on the legality of outing Plame. Rove's as dirty as they come, but if Fitzgerald is trying to crack the conspiracy to out Plame and Brewster-Jennings--an action that can only have come from Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld (or all three) and is trying to find out why they did it, he may well have been pressuring Rove--as he has pressured Libby--to give up the real perps, the masterminds, those who ordered it. Bear in mind that Fitzgerald has NOT exonerated Rove. It was from Rove's lawyer that we heard that Rove is not going to be indicted, and he won't release the Fitzgerald letter to that effect. The letter may well contain conditions--like truthful testimony at Libby's trial, or giving evidence against someone else. Fitzgerald's pressure has been very effective in some respects, and his investigation seems to have been thorough (within the confines of a massive coverup). For instance, he caught Rove out about emails that Rove was withholding. Rove had to give up the emails (his lawyer concocted a story about it). Rove wouldn't have done that--he would lie to the end--if Fitzgerald hadn't been thorough and gotten the info from another source.

Some DUers tend to see Rove as the whole story. But those who do are buying the COVER story--that Rove outed Wilson in a fit of political pique at Wilson's public dissent. That's not what happened. What happened--in my opinion--is that the Bush junta used Wilson's publication of a dissenting article as the EXCUSE to destroy the entire CIA WMD counter-proliferation network. They used the Wilson item to concoct a cover story--to make it look like sort of accident (an accident of "politics") that Novak outed a covert agent and her entire worldwide network. This is something that Rove would NEVER have done on his own. It was not a rogue action. It was central to Bush junta policy.

Think about this a moment. They outed a entire WMD-tracking network!!?? At a time when WMDs were supposed to be such a big threat--so important that they invaded Iraq and slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people over it!!??

There was a LOT MORE--and I'm mean REALLY A LOT more--going on there than political revenge, or silencing public critics. Some of these covert agents or contacts in Plame's network could well have gotten killed as a result of these outings (the first of Plame, on July 14, 2003, and the second the network's brass plate company, Brewster-Jennings, on July 22, also by Novak.

We need to be careful about accepting ANY of the terms of any Bush junta narrative. They and their lapdog press have been trying to marginalize this story from the beginning. The President, the V-P, and the AG were ALL covering it up. MANY top Bushites were involved (and WHY is a very good question). Rove may even be only minor player. I doubt that he gives a crap about treason. He would betray his own children for political gain. This country and its people mean nothing to him. The only thing that would concern him would be getting caught. I'm not saying he's innocent. I'm just saying that it's likely, in this case, that he was out front, playing a part, half unwittingly--that others are likely far more guilty, and that others may have been USING his reputation as a political assassin as cover for something else--that Wilson wasn't the chief target of the outings; the people who were outed were the chief targets.

Now why would the Bush junta want to get CIA WMD counter-proliferation agents/contacts killed or disabled? Think about it. Who was running WMDs--Saddam, or the Bush junta? Running them INTO Iraq--to justify the war and to solidify Bush and Blair's political power--and perhaps intending to run right through Iraq into Iran, perhaps with troops and bombers following them right across the border into Iran, for a two-for-one invasion. Is THAT what they've covering up--that they were going to PLANT the weapons, and the CIA weapons network caught them doing it?

Like I said, I think it goes back to Rumsfeld and the Office of Special Plans (his own little spy/black ops creation). I'm afraid Rumsfeld is the one we should be worried about--getting off scot free. Fitzgerald seems to have tracked it to Cheney--and Cheney was certainly involved, as the WH mover of the plot. But I think the investigation may not be able to get any further than that.

It would have been great to have Rove out of the picture for the November elections (and on the recent Mexican election, which has many of the characteristics of Rovian filthy politics--it's almost a signature Rove operation). But our election system is so rigged--with the new Bushite controlled electronic voting, and its "trade secret" programming--that it almost doesn't matter. He'll pre-write the narrative of the stolen election (Americans hate gays and brown immigrants, and like seeing Arabs killed, and will vote for Bushites against their own interests because they're so full of hate), to be used as the "explanation" afterward, and the question will be, will the American people put up with another stolen election, or (my hopeful scenario), will they all vote Absentee in protest, and bring this fraudulent election system down--or will election reform activists bring it down in other ways (by close monitoring and lawsuits)?

I think Americans' patience is wearing very thin, and rebellion is in the air. These people have a 70% disapproval rating! I don't think anybody's going to believe a Bushite victory, or even 50/50 split, this fall.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC