Teacher fights for job over topless photos online

[ECH1969]

Until they found the topless photos, Austin High School officials considered Tamara Hoover a model art teacher with a knack for helping students find their creative streaks.

Now, she's fighting for her job.

The photos, which were posted on Flickr.com by her partner, depict Hoover in the shower, lifting weights, getting dressed, in bed and doing other routine activities.

The school district said the photos were inappropriate and violate the "higher moral standard" expected of public school teachers.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3977230.html

[texasleo]

1. pics not loading

fnd a new host.

[charlie]

2. Boobs are immoral

End of lesson.

Get me out of this country.

[Totally Committed]

4. Boobs are not only immoral...

They can't run a country once you elect them, either.

TC

[Greyhound]

67. LOL!

:rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

6. Let's go!

:D I know better places and have lots of friends. ;)

[charlie]

16. LOL

That kid's mesmerized. Now that he's seen the colossus of bronze bejeweled GLORY, no girl his age is ever gonna make him happy.

[TahitiNut]

120. The boobs are on the school board!

They're the same people who watched replays of Janet Jackson's nipple 100 times while proclaiming how terrible it was. Fucking perverts!

[charlie]

128. Har!

Got that right. Y'know, there's 16 miles of ground between shame and prurience, yet somehow most of America manages to zip between the two without crossing the middle. I wonder how they do that?

[Protagoras]

130. But we're OUTRAGED!

OUTRAGED I tell you...er...wait a minute while I rewind that...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. If you want to pose nude, don't teach kids.

If you want to teach kids, don't pose nude. The Internet is there for anyone to see. I don't understand what's so tough to understand about that.

I mean, I'm as liberal as anyone, and I believe in live and let live. If somebody wants to be a swinger, go right ahead. Want to dance nude? Go ahead. Want to swing from the chandeliers? Feel free. Want to do porn movies? Fine with me!

However, don't expect my tax dollars to hire you as my child's teacher. What's so tough to understand about that?

Edit: Another thing.. it's hard enough for women to get respect and equality. They last thing women need is to be the one gender displaying its body all over the place. Yes, I'm with those feminists that think porn is degrading to females.

[LoZoccolo]

5. If you're black I don't want you in my neighborhood past sunset.

What's so tough to understand about that?

_{NOTE: This post is sarcastic.}

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. Nudity can't be helped? Sheesh I had no idea.

And here I thought I had clothes on! Please don't confuse a bra with someone's skin color. Thanks. Much appreciated.

[LoZoccolo]

26. You didn't explain yourself and then...

...asked us if it was so hard to understand. I'm like...uh, yeah...

[TahitiNut]

46. So, what you're saying is that being black would be wrong

... if people could help it?? Uh-huh. I see. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. That is an absolutely ridiculous analogy

[LoZoccolo]

76. I think it was apt because the original was ridiculous.

Like, that was the point.

[ulysses]

you won't see this since you have me on ignore

but I think we actually agree here. Ah well.

[upi402]

7. evil boobs begone! boobs rot kids' brains.

boobs bad boobs bad
boobs give kids cavities

this phony ass prudish country produces more twisted freaks than any other with all it's moralizing and repression.
yeuch!:puke:

[-..__...]

12. I'll chime in and say it's a big ado about nothing, but...

like it or not, certain occupations are held to a higher (or different), standard than others.

Not that I agree with it, but that is the reality so now she's playing the 'art card'.

What if she had posed ala spread-eagle-open-gash-shot-with-a-Crisco-lubed-cucumber-up-her-cooter?

Would that be prudish to complain about?

[upi402]

17. i like cucumber

:shrug:

[-..__...]

22. Makes me wonder...

if there really is a God, what was he thinking about when he created phalli shaped fruits, vegetables and tubers?

:smoke:

[TahitiNut]

51. Natural Selection??

:rofl:

[upi402]

62. My god's a 'sporty' god

Hey, it's a free country!
:hide:

[Perky]

91. THE POINT IS BEING MISSED BY NEARLY EVERYONE

It is not that she had topless photos. i it is that they were posted on the Net.. THE FACT That they were on the net makes it now disruptive to the educational environment.


The only issue here is whether or or not she knwe thay were posted on the net. If she did she should be fired. Because at that point it is the School'd business. If she did not, the issue is different and she should probably find another job and get on with her life.

[Porcupine]

47. Yes, actually. .Teachers are humans and humans have sex.

Given the ubiquity of digital video equipment it will become apparent that teachers have sex, with a variety of people, on camera.

My ex-wife, who is a teacher has had videos of herself having sex and pictures of her spread yada yada yada (banana actually). Despite that she is a horrible human being she should not lose her job because she had sex in front of a camera. Sex is.....gasp......LEGAL!!!

Meanwhile there are undoubtably veterans of varous wars who directly as a result of their actions have killed children. Real children, dead. Nobody complains about them teaching.

America is insane.

[Greyhound]

68. You can say that again. Excellent point, too bad nobody is answering

the comparison. Too hard I guess. :shrug:

[Hubert Flottz]

98. Avoid Crisco...

It's Shortening...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

100. lol...I missed the joke first time I read it.

I was going to make a serious comment about making sure to use a water-based lubricant.

[Radical Activist]

117. lol

you funny

[BlueIris]

8. I have absolutely no idea what your justification for your position is.

Could you elaborate please, for the curious? Maybe with a coherent argument this time?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aaronbees]

32. According to the Austin paper's account of this incident...

the morality clause at this district prohibits "base, vile, or depraved acts that are intended to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of the actor."

There is nothing base, vile or depraved about posing in tasteful nude or semi-clothed portraits, and it certainly seems there's nothing "intentional" about it -- especially if she, to quote her story, "neither knew nor had any control over which photographs were posted by the photographer."

I hope she has a good lawyer and sues the district.

What's really disgusting are the actions of the second teacher (if Hoover's account is accurate), to whit: 1) badmouthing a fellow teacher in class and, 2) pulling up the pictures during classtime.

Sounds like a worthless witch hunt to me. This country needs to grow up.

[Jed Dilligan]

13. Sorry to hear you're so ashamed of the female body

One thing I take issue with is, there is a lot of male display going on and it hasn't really put a chink in how successful men are... If you're looking for why women are paid less than men or their opinions are valued less, I would look elsewhere than sexuality.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. Do men go to work without pants on?

If not, I'd like to know why. After all, it's only the human body. We must love the human body. It's beautiful. Let's have men show up bottomless at work. I like looking at naked men. And why not have male teachers show up bottomless at school? Is there something wrong with that? Couldn't be! The human body is simply beautiful.

[Jed Dilligan]

29. Yes, if you're talking about strippers

Also, cattle herders bringing herds across rivers often strip off their pants.

The teacher in question did not expose herself at school, so your argument is crap.

[Djinn]

41. no-one talking about going to work naked

do you ever have sex OMIGOD THE HORRROR imagine going to work and having sex there...oh wait hang on you didn't do it at work but on your own time...what this woman did in her own time is no business of yours or anyone elses, unless she's been kiddie fiddling it has NO BEARING ON HEDR JOB

[Toucano]

50. She didn't go to work without clothes on.

It's not a valid analogy.

[rman]

65. A teacher who poses nude doesn't go to work without clothes on

What the heck is your point?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

79. Sure she does. She's on the Internet without them.

This is bullshit. Again, if you publicly display your body, you should be doing a job involving adults, NOT children. I don't give a shit if the teacher is incredibly knowledgeable. Go take your naked body publicly to adults. I don't want my child being taught by someone who is naked on the Internet.

[WinkyDink]

81. Not saying I blame you, but I hope your standard applies to movies as well

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

88. I had a teacher who was in Playboy.

She was a great teacher and knew her stuff. I don't feel that her days in Playboy affected her as a teacher.

[timtom]

69. I lived in Austin, TX

from 1976 to 1982.

During that time, there was a city ordinance that said, in effect, that anywhere a man could appear in public without a top, so could a woman. I don't know if that's still the case, but Barton Springs was always replete with topless people in August...men AND women. I'm willing to bet that some of them were even teachers.

[Fleshdancer]

70. Yep. Women can still go topless in Austin

Barton Springs, Eeyore's b-day party and Mardi Gras are all prime examples. It's nice to live in a city that doesn't consider my breats as something dirty...sounds like AISD didn't get that memo though.

[WinkyDink]

82. There's ground between "dirty" and "sexual". Let's not be disingenuous.

Hugh Hefner ain't rich from Austin's "both genders are equal".

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

87. Um...did the teacher go to work without pants on?

No. Your post is a ridiculous response. Too many Americans are ridiculous prudes and you seem to be one of them. I don't see how these pictures are degrading at all. To me, that sort of attitude sends the message that sex is something that we can do, but we should be ashamed that we did it.

Of course, I'm a pro-porn feminist. Porn for everybody!

[Protagoras]

132. I had a man without a shirt working outside my building today

and he had some substantial breasts. Guess the hair made them moral and acceptable to look upon though.

[LoZoccolo]

33. Wait a second wait a second.

We are here arguing that this woman should be allowed to continue to use her special talents as - by the accounts given before the incident - an excellent art teacher. I think we're the ones that want to empower her and give her respect beyond being topless, not you.

[Clark2008]

37. I agree with you regarding porn.

When I was a fledgling of 20, I was asked to pose in Playboy and horselaughed them off the phone... I wasn't going to ruin my future career over that silliness for no amount of money. My body is sacred and to be shared only with my lover.

Now... If after a 10-pound baby, I could only get that body BACK! LOL.

[Djinn]

39. how on EARTH

does getting ones boobs out effect your ability to teach?????

I'm not big on the idea that the pussycat dolls (for example) have anything to do with liberation but to think a women can't make her own decision to get her gear off or even to star in hardcaore porn and that any involvement in the paid or unpaid sex industry is instantly degrading is patronising to say the least.

This teacher most likely doesn't go to class with her boobs out, I doubt she tells students about it or encourages them to do the same so why should your morality effect her capacity to earn a living.

Your view is very very similar to those who do not wish homosexual people to teach in schools.

[Ms. Toad]

105. The simple answer is, "yes."

As a former teacher, having photographs of my bare breasts on the internet would have impacted my ability to teach. It would not have changed my knowledge of the subject matter or my ability to nurture mastery of the subject matter in students who were willing to learn. Unfortunately there are a significant number of students who are just passing time in school, and are not receptive to learning. Having students uninterested in learning who had ogled my bare breasts on the internet would have changed the atmosphere in my classroom. On most days, in the poverty stricken inner city high school in which I taught, I encountered significant discipline challenges, many of which (even without having had nude photos posted on the internet) included sexual subtexts - and in some cases outright threats. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been, and I expect it would also have diminished the already minimal disciplinary support I received from some of the male principals who almost certainly would have joined the students in checking out the view.

Allowing photographs of myself to be published on the internet would not have been a choice I would have made - not because I think nudity is evil, but precisely because - rightly or wrongly - it would have impacted my ability to do my job.

Do I think it ought to - No. Do I think it was a dumb choice - yes, as I expect would most people who have spent time teaching a classroom of middle school or high school students. Do I think she should be fired for it - not so long as she can continue to do her job. She may be the exceptional teacher whose ability to do her job is not impacted by having had nude photos available for viewing by her students. In my experience - in the real world, not the world as we hope it would be - that would take not only an exceptional teacher, but an exceptional group of teenage students. If that is the case, more power to her. Her retention (or not) should be based on her performance. Her performance may be irreparably harmed by the choice she made - but that remains to be seen, and she should be given a chance to demonstrate that she can still perform her job duties.

[silvertip]

44. Nudity!

    The last time that I checked everyone was born naked and I
for one see nothing wrong with the human body, if people were
more accepting of their bodies and their sexuality there would
be a lot less sex crimes in this world and a whole lot more
love and understanding.

[Toucano]

49. "...I'm as liberal as anyone..."

No, dear Sarah, you are not. You're actually a more than a little uptight about nudity.

Children should be taught that nudity is natural and normal. It't nothing to fear.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. I agree

and I fully support this woman's right to pose for these pictures. But as a teacher, she needs to remember and abide by the standards of the community she serves.

[dsc]

74. Would you hire Georgia O Keeffe?

She has nudes on line. What about famous artists who painted nudes? Can DaVinci teach at your school?

[joeunderdog]

123. She's an ART teacher. I guess those Greek statues are porn, too.

There's a difference between posing for tasteful nudes and doing hardcore porn.

So I guess we should keep the students out of the Museum of Fine Art, too. Couldn't have that.

[Protagoras]

131. It's important for children to know that boobs are evil

er...

[6000eliot]

9. Oh my god!

How can she teach the children walking around with titties?

[idgiehkt]

14. LOL

really I mean they keep you alive for your first few years, and people act like kids have never seen a breast. Weird.

I think the internet is just the problem. Because most people take those boudoir photos with lovers and eventually sometimes that lover gets pissed and leaves and takes revenge. And that revenge shouldn't cost someone their job.

[MisterP]

11. is it bad I thought of Chancellor Merkel?

the Sun published her heinie at the baths

[H2O Man]

15. Many babies

have had their young lives literally destroyed by being breast-fed. It's not natural. Where, oh where, is Ed Meese when this nation needs him? Perhaps only Woody Allen can save us from the attack on society that posing breasts pose.

[MrPrax]

25. Testify Brother!!

LOL...

Yes I often weep for all those poor African children that I used to see in old National Geographics. All those children and all those women just wandering around like hussies!

Oh! The Children! The Children!

[Eric J in MN]

18. Are male teachers who look at pictures of boobs

on their own time also getting fired?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. I hope not. They can look at porn all they like.

However,if a porn star applies to teach your 5 yr olds, I expect some joy out of you and your family.

[Eric J in MN]

24. She's not a professional porn star.

She posed for some nude photos for free.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. You should find no problem in having a porn star teach your children.

It's only the human body, and the human body is beautiful. In fact, let's have a male porn star teach your kids.

[blogslut]

45. Male porns stars are...

worse than female porn stars? What about gay male porn stars that don't have sex with female porn stars? Are they exploiting women too? Where do they rate on your disapproval scale?

[conflictgirl]

59. Wow, I had no idea thousands of women in Europe were porn stars!

Topless beaches are legal in many other countries in the world. All those women who go to them are *porn stars*? Really?

I don't define porn star as someone who has nude topless photographs of themselves taken. Considering that being topless in public is legal in other countries, it's really a stretch for me to see that as some depraved activity that makes a person so immoral that they might corrupt children.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

89. I'd be fine with a porn star of either sex teaching children.

That is, provided the porn star is qualified and good at teaching. Being in the porn industry is not a stain on someone's moral character. A true liberal would realize this.

[Perky]

92. oh please...that is just moronic.... eom

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

94. How is that moronic?

I don't think that pornography is an immoral industry. If someone leaves the porn industry and wants to start teaching, then who am I to judge? I know people in the porn industry; they're people you can trust with your kids. Just because they did porn doesn't make them a horrible immoral person.

The teacher in question wasn't even in pornographic photography. They were tasteful, artistic nudes.

[Perky]

103. OH Please

That is, provided the porn star is qualified and good at teaching. Being in the porn industry is not a stain on someone's moral character. A true liberal would realize this.

It is not an indictment of the porn star. But being a porn star and teaching is not compatible becuse it is disruptive to the educational environemnt. Completely disruptive. I think parents of all political stripes would feel that way.

A female porn star teaching high school boys would never work. If you think it would work I would say you have gone around the bend.

It is not about her qualification or skills. it is about an environment conducive to teaching.

[Mojorabbit]

127. She isn't a porn star

I checked out her partner's photos and they are good.Good use of shading and interesting setups. Excellent photographer int he making. The teacher is very young but I am surprised she wasn't aware this would happen in today's climate. You can judge for yourself.
http://flickr.com/photos/celestadanger/sets/
and there are no naked pics of the teacher up anymore.

[Djinn]

42. she's NOT a porn star

if she was however and she was qualified to teach and good with kids I couldn't give a stuff, I have never attached any morality to what one does with one's own body (that doesn't hurt another)

quite possibly because I have known people who've worked in porn who were lovely intelligent kind people who I would happilly have left children in the care of.

[Bucky]

52. Really! "Star" is such an overused term. Now, Tawny Kitaen: THAT's a star!

But maybe I'm missing your point. Here's your so called "porn star" by the way...

"Every time you fire a topless teacher, God kills a kitten"

Actually, while I think this woman's getting a raw deal (as are all the students she could help), I do think she showed bad judgment. A teacher is s semi public personality, a state-sponsored role model. She was in her rights to post risque pictures of herself online. But she was naive to think that wouldn't impact her job if discovered.

[Bucky]

53. Another picture of this "topless teacher"

School officials are so dumb. Geeze, what a waste of everyone's time to fire this woman.

[Djinn]

60. yes I think you did miss my point

which was that posting pics of oneself topless does not constitute being a porn star and that even if she had starred in a tonne of hardcore porn it would be irrelevant to whether or not I would trust her with kids.

what did you think my point was?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

90. A porn star is Jenna Jameson, Ron Jeremy, Joanna Angel, Seymore Butts...

I could go on.

However, a woman with some nude photos of her, taken by her partner, is not a porn star. It takes a bit more work to be a porn star.

[Union Thug]

23. OH THE HORROR!!! BOOBIES!!! Grow up..

Puhhhhlllleeeezzz.. Why are americans so hung up on this?

[readmoreoften]

56. I love your name.

And agree with your sentiments.

[Union Thug]

61. Thx!

I checked out those photos, and they are certainly not 'pornographic'.

Man, the people in this country are completely hung up on the wrong things - outrage over breasts, no problem with the sweatshop labor that produces the shirts and bras that cover them. All bent out of shape over pot, but consume oceans of beer, wine and hard liquor every year.

My head is spinning.

[Eric J in MN]

28. The teacher and the woman who took the photographs are lesbians

according to the comments here:
http://austin.metblogs.com/archives/2006/06/what_are_we_tea.phtml

Maybe that affected the firing. Or the perception that the teacher and her roommate are lesbians, in the case that they're not.

[Radical Activist]

118. Those high school boys must love this teacher

Not only does she post nude pictures of herself online, she's a lesbian! I bet she's the most popular teacher in school...with the boys.

[pookieblue]

30. what I have a problem with

is the other teacher that went on a computer in the classroom and searched for the pix and viewed them with the kids in the room.

And nothing was done to her? she still has her job?



btw, Nude body does not equal Porn.

If that was the case, then there is a lot of paintings by the Masters that are porn.


I do not think that the Ms Hoover should be fired. What she did was on her own time. And there was nothing illegal about what she did.

In fact, I read the messages under the article and it appears that there are some places in the city, where it is okay to go topless.

But the other teacher... she knew what she was looking for. she used school property to go on her little 'witch hunt".

[Fleshdancer]

31. This is my biggest complaint against stuff like Girls Gone Wild....

Granted, it sounds like this teacher wasn't doing anything sexually provocative (aside from showing her *evil* breasts :eyes:) but I worry about these 18-20 yr old drunk women who flash and make out with each other for Girls Gone Wild. You just know that 20 years from now, at least one woman will be running for political office and no matter how great her record is, she'll be humiliated and her career will be destroyed over one very stupid, yet legal decision two decades ago.

Meanwhile, we have a VP who shoots a man in the face, a Gov of California who admitted to past drug use and orgy participation, and a President who was MIA during Vietnam. Funny how this teacher is the only one out of this group getting fired. But hey, she has pics exposing her breasts. After all, what will we tell the highschool "children"???!!!?!? :sarcasm:

[blogslut]

34. those girls sign contracts

and they're sober. just an fyi. all the rest is fantasy.

[Fleshdancer]

35. really? I didn't know that.

Wow. Talk about stupid decisions. :wow:

[blogslut]

38. TITLE 18 2257

Photographers must be able to provide investigators with the photo IDs and signed model releases for each and every sexual image taken. The dude that owns GGW is a businessman and would be foolish to take legal chances with his high profile photo/video. He's already been in trouble with angry models and law enforcement. He won't be a fool again. As for the drunk thing, As well, I would imagine any lawyer will tell you that a contract signed while someone is intoxicated is probably invalid.The GGW usually bring their own stable of pre-hired models and get a few more by advertising for them in the location city paper and cull them from local modeling agancies.

[madmusic]

36. What would Scalia do?

"I accept, for the sake of argument, for example, that sexual orgies eliminate social tension and ought to be encouraged," Scalia said with a smile.

EDIT: BTW, this is another example of "morality" doing more harm than the deed, a la Clinton/Monica.

[ladjf]

40. What in the hell was the partner thinking? Why risk the teachers

job by posting nude photos.

[Mnemosyne]

43. But it's okay for Bab's boobs to be out in public!

[w4rma]

48. Here is her Flickr.com page. Great art, imho.

http://www.flickr.com/people/tamarah/

She has almost 400 art photos posted.

[Toucano]

54. There is nothing inappropriate about those photos.

Thank you for sharing the link.

[w4rma]

57. I agree. (nt)

[Milspec]

83. I also agree

This is nothing to get fired for. On the other hand, I didn't find the pictures or the model particularly appealing.

[readmoreoften]

55. I'm in Austin. This is mostly happening because she is a lesbian.

The teacher's girlfriend is a fairly well-known (among Austin lesbians) lesbian art/erotica photographer. This is very tame, Austin art gallery type stuff. This is more about the lesbian subtext of the photos than the exposure of her breasts.

It's funny, I go back and forth between Austin and NYC. I'm in TX right now. A few days ago I said, "I bet when this hits the press even liberals will start trashing her." People thought I was kidding. Sometimes it sucks to be right.

These kneejerk reactions about "saving the children" are ruining our country and not helping children one goddamn bit.

[MelissaB]

96. I just went through her gallery and I think you are right.

I just found one photo of her "nude" body and much of it is covered.

[joeunderdog]

124. When will this b!tch just learn to keep her top button buttoned,

preach the word of God to the children and learn to love the bomb like the rest of the good citizens? We need to have meaningful standards for the people who mold the minds of tomorrow.

:sarcasm:

Seriously, this such crap. It's like not letting nudity on TV while we all get high on Shock and Awe as Iraqi's get blown up and have their lives destroyed, and all on the family hour. What's really obscene here?

[conflictgirl]

58. They are overreacting so much

I read the article and I can't believe that they even want to go so far as to get her teaching license revoked! That seems really extreme in response to nudity.

I don't think nude pictures are themselves pornographic and I don't think that public school teachers have any more obligation than anyone else to keep their private lives more private than anyone in another career. Then again, this is Texas, which doesn't surprise me. When I lived in Texas, I had a friend who taught public school there who said that she was reprimanded for buying beer!

I looked through 10 pages of pictures on her Flickr site and saw very little nudity. I tend to think that it has a lot more to do with this teacher being a woman and having a female partner than with the pictures themselves.

How much of our lives should employers really get to own?

[alarimer]

86. And they wonder why it is so difficult to attract good teachers

who stay with the job. Some of it is money/benefits or having to deal with bureaucratic bullshit but a lot of it has to do with shit like this. Reprimand someone for buying beer??? Oh I guess teachers can't drink or smoke or have sex even. Frankly, I could never work under those conditions.

[REP]

63. Oh For Fuck's Sake

Casual photos of her topless. It's the end of the fucking world. My god, some of her students might notice that they have breasts.

It used to be that when a teacher married, she had to quit teaching. I guess the same old standard is in place - any hint that a woman teacher is actually a woman, and she's outta there.

[Pushed To The Left]

64. What she does off the clock is her business!

I could understand her losing her job if she came to class topless or showed these pictures to her students. But her job is to teach art. If she does that well, then I really don't care what she does on her own time. Has the ACLU heard about this?

[U4ikLefty]

66. Yay,...I got to see boobies becaue of DU!!!

;)

[Deja Q]

72. Sorry, the only photos I saw were ads for Home Depot.

And they weren't for doorknockers either! :spray:

[Cerridwen]

75. Time warp...

School boards opposing the presence of visibly pregnant women in classrooms feared that liability might arise in case of injury to mother or child, that the sight of pregnant women would unfavorably influence students...

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/glh/wiener.htm

Women who were drawn to it were treated by school boards and communities much the same as were preacher's wives: women expected to cheerfully perform their underpaid duties while offering themselves as models of moral rectitude. Women teachers were sometimes prohibited from marrying and, when they did, discouraged from having children of their own. (Pregnant teachers did not appear in classrooms until the 1960s.) They were not to smoke, wear bright colors, dye their hair, or keep the company of men. Their behavior was an easy target for moralizing busybodies and, by 1900, for labor organizers as well.

http://www.aaanet.org/cae/aeq/br/levin.htm

[Sarah Ibarruri]

77. The assumption that because grown males love nude women and porn....

and the human body is a nice thing, does not mean that children should be exposed to teachers that are exposing their bodies or anything else related to that. Grown men should continue to like female bodies.

And I'm still one of those feminists that believes porn and nudity in women is degrading to women. That will not change.

[LoZoccolo]

78. I still don't get it.

Some people don't want gay and lesbian teachers teaching their children because they don't approve of what they do outside the classroom. I don't understand how your argument is much different than that. What does this have to do with being a teacher? That's what we're all wondering.

I would also propose that the notion that female nudity is degrading to women is rooted in patriarchy. When women were denied the means of getting what they wanted out of life directly through work, they did so by manipulating men for it through their sexuality; it was their bargaining chip for getting everything they wanted through a husband who would have to support her in exchange for it. Expressions of female sexuality or nudity outside of that was shunned by their families and by other women because, through simple supply and demand, it lowers the value by creating more supply.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

108. What a person does in PRIVATE is their own problem.

If gays and lesbians were posing nude on the Internet, I'd have the same reaction. I don't care if the person posing nude on the Internet is skinny, fat, gay, straight, transgendered, evangelical, bald, black, white, male, female, hairy or an alien from another planet. You want to teach children? Don't be posing nude in PUBLIC places where everyone can see you, including the children you teach.

[LoZoccolo]

110. Right, right, you'd have the same reaction.

I still don't get why posing nude disqualifies you from being able to teach. You keep leaving this open.

Like what would you say to someone who says:

You want to teach children? Don't be gay.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

129. If gays run around nude, then gay is objectionable.

Gay, straight, bisexual, transgendered or whatever, if you publicly display your body, you should be doing other work, NOT teaching other people's kids.

[ulysses]

93. how in the hell is nudity degrading to women?

Just plain nudity - no porn, no sex, just nudity.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

109. When males display their bodies to the same degree that females do....

then, and only then, will I say that nudity is not degrading to women. As it stands, women all over the globe end up having to either prostitute themselves physically, mentally, emotionally, and in many other ways, for the same reasons that men don't have to.

But that's for another thread. The issue here is schools and children. It's like anything. Each job has its requirements. You want to pose nude on the Internet? Don't teach children. You want to teach children? Don't pose nude on the Internet. That's not that hard to do.

[walldude]

95. My question would be why are these childrens parents

allowing them to surf sites that have nudity? If you expect every teacher to be a saint you'll have about 3 left in the whole country. What a teacher does on her own time is her own business, as long as it's not affecting her teaching skills. You seem to think because this woman has nude pictures of herself posted on an internet site that she is somehow corrupting the children. If the children are seeing nude pictures on the internet maybe it's the parents that need to be fired....

[WinkyDink]

80. Okay, I'm not for what she did, BUT I'm REALLY getting upset with

employers' using the Internet to SNOOP ON PRIVATE LIVES.
And anything NOT related directly to the job IS PRIVATE. If it's legal, it should be NONE of an employer's beeswax.

I am equally angry about school administrators' snooping on MySpace to censor/suspend/expel students just for COMMENTS. In the olden days they were known as "free speech".

P.S. My title is taking the OP at face value.

[cynatnite]

84. Are the pictures going to be in the yearbook?

Is she teaching this kind of art in class?

If it's no to all of the above, I don't have a problem with it. I'll never understand why some people react so negatively about the human body. :shrug:

Just yesterday, my daughter was at the hospital. She's about ready to give birth and had some hard contractions. I took my 7 yr old son with me when we stopped to see how she was doing. The nurse came in to check her and thought he should leave.

Both my daughter and I said he'd be fine. We told him they were checking the baby and he said 'oh'. The nurses had more of a problem with it than he did.

People's over-the-top reactions to things like a woman's nudity is why kids get such mixed messages about sexuality.

[RagingInMiami]

85. So nobody has been able to find the photos in question?

[MelissaB]

99. I found only one

here: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=tamara&w=37581537%40N00&page=28

What the hell is the big deal with this photo? They must be trying to get rid of her because she is a lesbian.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

112. I'm sure they cleared out the "other" photos when the shit hit the fan.

My brother is a regular on Flickr (he does some architectural photography in his spare time), and he moves photos in and out constantly, as he sees fit.

[Nicole]

115. Yes, I "found" them

They were posted on another site that is arguing this case as well.

They were removed from the photographer's site but a blogger saved them.

Don't click if nudity offends you. It's more than just boob shots.


http://savemanny.blogspot.com/2006/06/hs-teacher-ms-hoovers-artistic-nudes.html

[U4ikLefty]

122. There were 2 other pictures of her laying on the beach (bare breasted).

not that I have it ingrained in my mind or anything...LOL!!!

She must have erased the "offending pictures" from the site.

[RagingInMiami]

125. It doesn't offend me

What is the big fuss?

[Nicole]

126. It doesn't offend me either

It's obvious that others here are offended though. If they can't handle pics of boobs then I'm sure they can't handle the rest. So I posted a warning with the link. No big fuss from me. :shrug:

[JVS]

97. Are the pictures recent or from the past.

I could understand (but not really agree with) the district forbdidding current employees from posing nude. The district definitely shouldn't DQ her for previous posing that is long past though.

[SmokingJacket]

101. I don't think she should be fired, but perhaps asked to take them off the

net.

Some of her students might find it hard to get their homework done....

[MelissaB]

102. There's only one photo. Did you see it?

Edited to say that there is only one left. Surely there must have been more...

[SmokingJacket]

104. No, not interested in boobs, especially.

I assumed since the plural "photos" was used, there was more than one.

I know it's a little prudish of me, but I do think teachers should go out of their way NOT to sexually arouse their students. Having been a teacher, I'd be mortified to imagine my students seeing my boobs. The relationship between a student and a teacher is a powerful one, but delicate, too. Sex has no place in it, of course, and making nude pictures of yourself available is -- and this is probably not exactly the right word -- disrespectful to your students. You KNOW they're going to look for them.

So.... I'd say the same goes for therapists, doctors, anyone who has an important relationship with young and impressionable people.

Again, I don't think the woman should be fired, but a discussion about this issue is worthwhile. If she refused to take them down and I was her principal, I frankly don't know what I'd do.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

113. The shower photos were removed, as were all the others. nt

[Nicole]

114. There were more but they were removed

From the photographer's profile:

"After Tamara was fired from her job as an AISD high school art teacher, I am removing many images of her for the time being."

http://www.flickr.com/people/celestadanger/

[AnOhioan]

106. Well this thread was amusing to read

Some real prudes here on DU. Reminds of the Janet Jackson photo-op. Much ado about nothing.

[WindRavenX]

107. no shit

How the FUCK is what she did ON HER OWN TIME a "distraction"? I mean, wtf?

[puffthemagicdragon]

111. more boobie fear

why are people so afraid of boobs? boobs have become the 21st century weapons of mass destruction. I hope she keeps her job.

[Radical Activist]

116. Its always the art teachers

;)

[Nicole]

119. Link to the pics

http://savemanny.blogspot.com/2006/06/hs-teacher-ms-hoovers-artistic-nudes.html

[MelissaB]

133. Thanks for the link, but they've been pulled from here now.

I still haven't seen them.

[dysfunctional press]

121. some things are just common sense...

the soon to be ex-teacher had to know what to expect, especially in her chosen state...and if she didn't- maybe she's just not bright enough for her chosen profession.