On War: Boos for Clinton, Cheers for Kerry

[dailykoff]

The Nation
Wed Jun 14, 12:29 AM ET

Washington -- At the Campaign for America's Future "Take Back America" conference in Washington Tuesday, two U.S. senators with 2008 presidential ambitions addressed a large audience of mostly liberal Democrats from around the country.

New York Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton, who voted for the 2002 Senate resolution authorizing President Bush to use force in Iraq, told the crowd, "I have to just say it: I do not think it is a smart strategy either for the president to continue with his open-ended commitment, which I think does not put enough pressure on the new Iraqi government, nor do I think it is smart strategy to set a date certain. I do not agree that that is in the best interest of our troops or our country." Clinton, who otherwise earned a warm reception, drew boos and hisses for that remark.

Massachusetts Democrat John Kerry, who also voted for the 2002 resolution, followed Clinton to the podium later in the day. He offered the crowd a decidedly different line. "Let me say it plainly," the Democratic party's 2004 presidential nominee began. "It's not enough to argue with the logistics or to argue about the details or the manner of the conflict's execution or the failures of competence, as great as they are. It is essential to acknowledge that the war itself was a mistake, to say the simple words that contain more truth than pride. We were misled. We were given evidence that was not true. It was wrong, and I was wrong to vote for that Iraqi resolution."

Kerry, whose failure to use such language during the 2004 campaign frustrated anti-war Democrats, has recently joined Senator Russ Feingold, D-Wisconsin, another potential 2008 contender and scheduled speaker at the "Take Back America" conference, in advocating for an exit strategy. At Tuesday's session, he spoke of the need to "end a war in Iraq that weakens the nation each and every day it goes on."

The Massachusetts senator drew sustained cheering and applause for acknowledging past errors and for advocating the course correction that Hillary Clinton still refuses to support.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060614/cm_thenation/1591667

[flyarm]

1. k&r..dems better start listening to base or they are dead in water! n/t

[Breeze54]

2. Please go to

The American people are saying, ‘Troops out,’ Iraqi people are saying, ‘Troops out.’ Are you listening, Hillary?
CODEPINK has launched a nationwide campaign against Hillary Clinton because of her opposition
to immediate troop withdrawal from Iraq. We plan to tail the senator around the state and the
country to persuade her to oppose the war.
Our protests in Chicago, Washington D.C, and New York have generated a buzz in the media.
Check out our new website, http://www.ListenHillary.org/ for more info!

“Part of my job is to listen.”
— Senator Hillary Clinton

In a survey that accompanied a recent fundraising letter, Hillary Clinton asked
for her constituents’ opinions on a variety of issues —
but the war in Iraq wasn’t one of them.

Hillary isn’t listening, and while her ears remained covered,
thousands of Americans and scores of thousands of Iraqis have died.

Isn’t it time for leadership, not politics? For bravery, not calculation?

Hillary needs to hear that the time to end the war is now.

If you wish to let Hillary know that ending the war in Iraq is a top priority for you,
contact Senator Clinton and tell her to work to bring our troops home now.

http://www.listenhillary.org/article.php?list=type&type=115

CodePink & Brooklyn Parents for Peace Hillary Vigil in New York City, January 2006





:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[blm]

3. Poor reporting - Kerry submitted an earlier withdrawal plan last OCTOBER

and his latest one in March. Why so many in the left media write as if this just happened overnight is UNINFORMED AND makes THEM less credible as journalists.

This country is disserved by bad reporting from the right and the left.

The correct chronology is Feingold said we should have a timetable last summer. Kerry went to Iraq in September to talk to elected parliament members and commanders on the ground - he submitted a detailed withdrawal plan in October. Murtha came out against the war, suggesting a redeploy in midNovember. Iraq held elections in mid-Dec. Kerry submitted a new plan in March addressing the Civil War that was becoming apparent.

All of those claiming that Kerry is just now on some bandwagon are NOT USING FACTS.

[Breeze54]

4. Took him awhile though.... n/t

[blm]

5. In what context? He was the fIRST to submit a detailed withdrawal plan

and that could only be done PROPERLY by going to Iraq and seeing what the truth was ON THE GROUND and getting the input from newly-elected parliament members face to face.

Please show me the detailed withdrawal plans that were put up before that. No serious plan could be submitted BEFORE Iraq held elections, and no serious Democratis leader would even suggest it BEFORE Iraq's elections.

[Breeze54]

6. I was referring to his speaking

out against the war. Not the withdrawal plan he submitted.

[blm]

7. He's been speaking against the war since it started - MANY times I heard

him say that Bush rushed to war unnecessarily because weapon inspections and diplomacy were working. Didn't you?

Too bad so many in the media and on the left were so focused on attacking Democrats and blaming the IWR that they couldn't get it through their heads that Bush was VIOLATING the IWR and ignoring the guidelines in it. All the airtime went against those Dems while Bush escaped scrutiny. Nice to have that old blank check meme out there, eh Karl?

[Breeze54]

8. No, I didn't!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/09/kerry.iraq/

Kerry stands by 'yes' vote on Iraq war
Bush challenges Democrat on stance

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 Posted: 12:04 AM EDT (0404 GMT)

GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARK, Arizona (CNN) -

Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry said Monday he would not have changed his vote
to authorize the war against Iraq, but said he would have handled things "very differently"
from President Bush.

The U.S. senator from Massachusetts said the congressional resolution gave Bush "the right authority for the president to have."

But he told reporters on a campaign swing through Arizona, "I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has." He challenged Bush to answer four questions.

"My question to President Bush is why did he rush to war without a plan to win the peace?" Kerry asked. "Why did he rush to war on faulty intelligence and not do the hard work necessary to give America the truth?

"Why did he mislead America about how he would go to war? Why has he not brought other countries to the table in order to support American troops in the way that we deserve it and relieve a pressure from the American people?

"There are four, not hypothetical questions like the president's, but real questions that matter to Americans," Kerry said. "And I hope you'll get the answers to those questions because the American people deserve them."

more....

---------------

I know he's changed his tune but it wasn't for quite awhile.

And if you read this, he isn't really saying not to go to war.
He's giving reasons for his vote of yes.

John Kerry's Statement on Iraq Before the War
TEXT FROM THE SPEECH JOHN KERRY MADE ON THE SENATE FLOOR
October 9, 2002
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html

I just believe, even from what he said on the floor in 2002, that he should have voted NO.
He stated all the reasons to vote no in the above speech.

[blm]

9. That's untrue. he consistently said Bush rushed to war when inspectors and

diplomacy were working - you are using ONE quote out of context when Kerry barely heard the question at the Grand Canyon.

HUNDREDS of times Kerry said the weapon inspectors and diplomacy were working and Bush rushed to war - if you didn't hear it, then you CHOSE to not hear it.

Kerry was FOR a resolution with war as an OPTION - he didn't support the CHOICE Bush made for that option when it was exercised. But then ALL plans made after Bush went in had to deal with the FACT that they needed a commander-in-chief to deal with that reality of the war that they were in. Don't confuse Kerry's intentions as a presidential candidate to deal with a war that was already started with support for the war itself.

[Breeze54]

11. He had doubts.

He should have voted no! The link to his 2002 yes vote and the reasons for it, is posted above.
All these Democrats voted NO! How come they didn't have any doubts about bush and the 'cons'?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 107th Congress - 2nd Session
as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk
under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate
Vote Number: 23 - Vote Date: October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM

Vote Summary

Question: On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )
NAYs ---23

Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

[blm]

14. Because some Dems were actually stuck doing the negotiating on the IWR and

thanks to them, the weapon inspectors and diplomatice efforts were renewed, and history proves that was an IMPORTANT measure as without either we would not know the extent of Bush's duplicity to have this war. Plus, the Dems were able to get Iran and Syria taken OFF the table - Bush had wanted NO weapon inspections, NO more diplomacy and Iran and Syria included as follow up targets.

So think about what the alternative was - either some Dems worked to get a better bill and sucked it up, or Bush had war HIS WAY.

[Breeze54]

16. Bush did get war his way!

"Bush had wanted NO weapon inspections, NO more diplomacy"

And that's what he got!!!

How come I saw that bush was a war monger and that was his agenda and Kerry et all, that voted yes, didn't?
:shrug:
Voting YES on the resolution was the ONLY way??
I doubt that!
Kennedy agree's with me!

[blm]

18. For those stuck doing the negotiating - YES. YOU wanted Iran and Syria

to be the next targets, I assume - cuz you certainly didn't want any Dem working for a better bill.

And the weapon inspectors DID get back in and so did the diplomats - or did the name Hans Blix slip your mind? WITHOUT the inspections we DID have and without the diplomacy that WAS progressing, we wouldn't know ANYTHING about what was found or not found. Bush would have more easily planted the WMDs with no UN inspectors in there. THEN, where the eff would the argument be?

[Breeze54]

19. I didn't want ANY

WAR!!!

Get off your high horse! He already admitted he fucked up!!
:grr:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1426304&mesg_id=1426304

[bvar22]

15. Good Post. I'm adding to your list:

The Honor Roll in the House of Representatives.

These people had the intelligence to see through the Neocon pack of lies,
The Judgment to NOT TRUST the Bush* administration with a Blank Check for War,
And the Integrity to vote their Conscience.
Their Principled Stand should NOT be forgotten!

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Representatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC) J
ohn Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Gresham Barrett (R-South Carolina)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland) Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
John Duncan, Jr. (R-Tennessee)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas) Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
John Hostettler (R-Indiana)
Amo Houghton (R-New York, retired from office)
Jay Inslee (D-Washington)

I salute the above Patriots!
:patriot:

[Breeze54]

17. Thanks for the list!!!

I was trying to find that too!! ;)

I agree!! They all are the TRUE patriots!!!
:patriot:

I never trusted that piece of shit liar bush. I never will!
:grr:

[chill_wind]

25. Thank you both.

Amazing how much gets lost and forgotten in the "fog of war".

[chill_wind]

24. This needs a permanently engraved place for reference somewhere at DU

if it doesn't already have one.

Thank you Breeze54.

[Breeze54]

26. Thanks...

Why don't you copy it into your journal? :shrug: And the other list too!

BTW? Welcome to DU! :hi:

[chill_wind]

28. Great idea! Done and thank you.

Many thanks each to Breeze54 and bvar22 for these two memory-refreshing lists. I am combining them into one journal entry for preservation puposes.

They should never be lost or fogotten.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1434149#1434876

***************************************************************
On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 107th Congress - 2nd Session
as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk
under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate
Vote Number: 23 - Vote Date: October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM

Vote Summary

Question: On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )
NAYs ---23

Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

The Honor Roll in the House of Representatives.

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Representatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC) J
ohn Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Gresham Barrett (R-South Carolina)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland) Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
John Duncan, Jr. (R-Tennessee)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas) Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
John Hostettler (R-Indiana)
Amo Houghton (R-New York, retired from office)
Jay Inslee (D-Washington)

[roody]

27. Why did I know the facts at that time and Kerry did not???

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Not true. He wasn't the first.

Friday, May 21, 2004

The last Spanish troops complete their withdrawal from Iraq today

According to reports on the radio and on newspaper websites this morning, the last 600 Spanish soldiers have left the military base in the southern Iraqi town of Diwaniya today. In a few hours time they are expected to cross the border into Kuwait and from there will start the journey home.

http://www.euroresidentes.com/Blogs/2004/05/last-spanish-troops-complete-their.htm

The last I heard Zapotero is a pretty "serious" politician. And, he didn't wait to talk to the new parliament.

I'm delighted that Kerry has finally renounced his pathetic vote for the war and has decided to try to get a withdrawal.
Does much to ease my regret for voting for "the lesser of two evils" in '04.

[blm]

13. I'm delighted you only took a year to hear it.

.

[gordianot]

12. I wonder if Corporate America has decided they have had enough?

Stay the course is not working out.

[dogday]

20. Me thinks Miss Hillary might just come around

if people keep booing her like that..... :shrug:

[Breeze54]

21. Wanna join me?

;) http://www.codepink4peace.org

or

http://www.listenhillary.org/

All men are welcome!
:)

[dogday]

22. I found the Houston Group for Code Pink

I am going to send them an email... I can't do a lot because of my health, but I can dial a phone and write letters and work on the computer like nobody else, so I will help in my way....

[Breeze54]

23. Awesome!!

I do the same and go to protests when I can...I'm no spring chicken anymore! ;)

Hang in there, ok? If you need to talk, pm me.
I'm still trying to 'calm down' from it all...

[Jeffersons Ghost]

29. Kicked and Recommended. nice work... as Franklin said...

At the 1st Continental Congress as the Crown was hunting all those signers of the Declaration of Independence down to hang them, "WE'LL EITHER HANG TOGETHER OR HANG SEPARATELY!"