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Torch My Ride: Arson for Hire

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niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 09:48 PM
Original message
Torch My Ride: Arson for Hire
SUV owners using fraud via arson for hire to collect insurance on ' upside down' vehicle debts; those are debts where more is owed
than the vehicle is worth. Now this avenue of escape from SUV financial indescretion is 'closed'

http://cnn.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/115584/article.html
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anything that gets another SUV off the road works for me. n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, I Ain't Lightin Mine On Fire Any Time Soon.
What a bunch of morans.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Arson? That's so last decade. Much better to have a friend in a scrapyard
You'd be AMAZED at what those shredders can do to a vehicle...


...just sayin'
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Or you can just wait for them to flip over...
...and self destruct on their own. ;)
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niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. That last gallon of gas you buy to torch your ride is the most expensive.
n/t
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. This story just makes me laugh out loud. Those SUV drivers were so
damn cocky. Been run off the road a time or two. Know other people who have as well. Of course the vehicles I was in, and those of my friend couldn't compete is size and weight.

The god damn times that pissed me off the most was when it was snowing and the frigging streets were slicker than snot. Those bastards didn't have any mercy.
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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Too True!!
that is why, while I don't want to see anyone get hurt...there's nothing I love better than seeing another fucking SUV kicking up it's little wheels, dead, upside down, in a ditch!

Assholes that drive 'em think they own the road, cuz they got four-wheel-drive and anti-lock brakes, and they're bigger than everyone else, so they can just bully everyone else...I love it when I can go by, see'em kicking their little wheels in the air, and I smugly think, "Didn't work, did it, asshole?!?"
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. With the price of gas
I don't see how they can afford to fill them up. Nearly $3 in my area.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. My friend's Commanche is a garage ornament
I don't think she's driven it in months.. She still drives her old Camry wagon .. I call it her "Beetle"..

I had ALWAYS wanted a Beetle when I was a kid, but had to drive a behemoth 4-door Dodge...Fastforward 35-odd years.. My husband came home & told me that a friend of a friend was selling a very sharp super beetle...fully restores and lovingly cared for.. Naturally I HAD to have it...so we drove down to the marina where this guy lived, and gave him the cash.. I drove it home, and was thrilled with it.. After a few months I decided it was not as "fun" to drive as I had remembered them in my youth.. My Accord Ex called and called to me, and that's how my SON ended up with the Beetle..

My friend saw the Commanche on the lot and HAD to have it, but since she bought it, she rarely drives it..
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Generalize much?
I own an SUV. Am I an asshole?

I don't think that I own the road.

I have never, in the 32 years that I have been driving, run someone off the road.

Never been in a ditch, either.

I have been run into by other drivers not paying attention, driving while impaired. They were all in regular vehicles. I was the one that got hurt when slammed into from behind. Funny, huh?

People have been torching vehicles when they get upside-down on loans and can't get out from under them for years. This is nothing new.

Just another smug SUV bashing thread. Yawn.
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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Most People Who Drive SUV's Drive To Intimidate. n/t
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Show your proof
Give me insurance company statistics, federal safety reports, state and county accident and violation reports on aggressive driving. Anything other than OPINION.


Generalization. Not acceptable as a basis for argument.

I could say that most women are lousy drivers because they all talk on the phone while driving and do not pay attention (like the one that rear-ended me at the stop light).

That would be a generalization. Prove otherwise with facts. You argue with opinion.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Most SUVs I've seen ARE guilty of THIS:
You're sitting in a driveway, ready to pull out. And SUV pulls up next to you, yurning in the other direction out of the same lot. You are driving a car.

They intentionally (because, being higher up, they don't have to do this) pull far enough out to completely block the car driver's view. Trucks do this, too, especially owners of Dodge Rams for some odd reason.

But SUVs are guilty as hell of this. They seem to do it just to needle the "silly guy driving the little car".
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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Yeah
You are talking about when they (the SUV) wants to pull out of a parking lot and turn left...whereas you (the car) wants to turn right...and so they pull up enough to block your view when you COULD turn right...and they don't need to pull up that far, they do it just to be annoying.

I'm familiar with that one!
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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-11-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. My Own Personal Experience
So YOU don't. Whoopie! ONE SUV driver who is actually a courteous, considerate driver. YOU show ME statistics that say SUV drivers drive safely...because I know that, generally, that's pure horseshit.

Fact is, most SUV drivers believe they are in the bigger vehicle, and THEY won't get hurt in the accident, so who gives a shit if someone in a compact car get killed?

SUV's suck!
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Opinion
No facts. All I keep seeing is .....GENERALLY....

If you believe that someone driving any motor vehicle would drive in an unsafe manner because they won't get hurt in an accident, that's just rubbish. Any accident can kill or maim any occupant of any vehicle involved, SUV or otherwise. If that were the case, tractor-trilers would be smashing ALL vehicular traffic in their way regardless of safety, as they are the biggest thing on the roads.

The overriding safety factor is the relative weight of the vehicles involved. A driver in a Mercedes hitting a Hyundai will statistically be safer, as it is the heavier vehicle.


How about a smaller weight SUV? Statistically no safer than a car of equal weight, and less safe than a full-size sedan in a collision. Shouldn't you be pissed at all the full-sized Lincoln Town Cars? If one hit your sub-compact, I am sure they would suffer less damage. Does that make them less safe as drivers, more aggressive? Doubt it.



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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. You Simply Are Refusing To Accept Reality
because you are an SUV owner.

No point arguing with you.

I've already motherfucking STATED this is my opinion, based on MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE...and you are treating me as though my own experience is not fucking valid. so to hell with it.

don't bother responding. If you do, you go on my Ignore list. We agree to disagree right here and now, and you just knock it off, and we stay friends. Your call.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Deleted message
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I drive for a living
I drive more miles in one year than the average person does in ten. I have over a million accident and ticket-free miles.

I see far more road-rage, stupidity, thoughtlessness, dangerous driving in my time than I want to. It has been my experience that there is no difference in any particular type of vehicle being driven more aggresssively, except for maybe younger men in sports cars, or teenagers that think they are still immortal.

I am also the safety officer for my small transportation company, responsible for safety audits and reporting to the federal government.
I deal with the FMCSA and other state and Provincial governmental agencies related to the safe operation of commercial vehicles.

I drive better than most do, yes. Probably better than you.
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. A bit of food for thought.
This article is a couple of years old but it contains some useful facts about SUVs and their drivers.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0212.mencimer.html

Just thought it might help to pull this debate back on topic and away from personal sniping.

<snip>

According to market research conducted by the country's leading automakers, Bradsher reports, SUV buyers tend to be "insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities. They are more restless, more sybaritic, and less social than most Americans are. They tend to like fine restaurants a lot more than off-road driving, seldom go to church and have limited interest in doing volunteer work to help others."

He says, too, that SUV drivers generally don't care about anyone else's kids but their own, are very concerned with how other people see them rather than with what's practical, and they tend to want to control or have control over the people around them. David Bostwick, Chrysler's market research director, tells Bradsher, "If you have a sport utility, you can have the smoked windows, put the children in the back and pretend you're still single."

Armed with such research, automakers have, over the past decade, ramped up their SUV designs to appeal even more to the "reptilian" instincts of the many Americans who are attracted to SUVs not because of their perceived safety, but for their obvious aggressiveness. Automakers have intentionally designed the latest models to resemble ferocious animals. The Dodge Durango, for instance, was built to resemble a savage jungle cat, with vertical bars across the grille to represent teeth and big jaw-like fenders. Bradsher quotes a former Ford market researcher who says the SUV craze is "about not letting anything get in your way, and at the extreme, about intimidating others to get out of your way."

<snip>

The occupant death rate in SUVs is 6 percent higher than it is for cars--8 percent higher in the largest SUVs. The main reason is that SUVs carry a high risk of rollover; 62 percent of SUV deaths in 2000 occurred in rollover accidents. SUVs don't handle well, so drivers can't respond quickly when the car hits a stretch of uneven pavement or "trips" by scraping a guardrail. Even a small bump in the road is enough to flip an SUV traveling at high speed. On top of that, SUV roofs are not reinforced to protect the occupants against rollover; nor does the government require them to be.

Because of their vehicles' size and four-wheel drive capability, SUV drivers tend to overestimate their own security, which prompts many to drive like maniacs, particularly in inclement weather. And SUV drivers--ever image-conscious and overconfident--seem to hate seat belts as much as they love talking on their cell phones while driving. Bradsher reports that four-fifths of those killed in roll-overs were not belted in, even though 75 percent of the general driving population now buckles up regularly.

While failing to protect their occupants, SUVs have also made the roads more dangerous for others. The "kill rate," as Bradsher calls it, for SUVs is simply jaw-dropping. For every one life saved by driving an SUV, five others will be taken. Government researchers have found that a behemoth like the four-ton Chevy Tahoe kills 122 people for every 1 million models on the road; by comparison, the Honda Accord only kills 21. Injuries in SUV-related accidents are likewise more severe.

<snip>

Lots more goodies like these in the rest of the article.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Keith Bradsher had a book to sell


He is also a critic of those that are more affluent and socially liberal. I would take him and his market research with a grain of salt.
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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Yeah, You would - Because It Proves Things You Don't Want To Accept!!
see,m this is why I didn't bother digging up actual research for you: I could tell you wouldn't accept ANYTHING that made a case different from your own point of view.

You, and people like you, disgust me. You simply refuse to accept, and you refute, and you malign...any evidence that proves a conclusion opposite to the one you want to produce.

It is completely and totally worthless to argue with you, I saw that earlier on, which is why I told you not to even bother responding.

But you did, and so it is off to Ignoreland with you.
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Not sure 'having a book to sell' is...
...such a compelling argument. After all, everyone who writes a book and gets a pubisher has a book to sell. Al Gore has a movie to sell. The Dixie Chicks have CDs to sell. This fact alone is insufficient to diminish the truth of their arguments. I could equally say that Bradsher had a book to promote. He believed he had an important message to convey and used the media to promote that message.

Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but I'm guessing you haven't read the book. Atypically for books of this type, it's fairly well footnoted and I've taken the trouble to check original sources on several of his statistics. The accident and fatality figures he cites are produced by recognized governmental and non-governmental traffic organizations and the governmental ones are used in the compilation of national traffic safety statistics. Dispute these if you will, but it's unfair to criticize Bradsher for relying on the most authoratative numbers available. They're not his figures, in other words.

The interviews with car company executives are attributed to named individuals where possible. Some are admittedly of the 'unnamed source' variety (for reasons of job security, no doubt), but they generally accord well with the opinions of those who were prepared to put their names in print.

What struck me most about the book was not that SUV drivers are necessarily everything Bradsher says they are, but that the companies that sell SUVs certainly believe that they are, and are making vehicles targeted at satisfying the demand of such allegedly antisocial, immature, self-obsessed people. If this central assertion is true, it should prompt us all to take a step back and think about our real reasons for buying SUVs. The car companies think they know why we love our urban tanks, and the picture they paint is very unattractive. What have we done to prove them wrong?
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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Thank You!!
just the kind of ammo I needed to prove that I am right. I was arguing based on my own personal experience, that, basically, SUV drivers are selfish assholes. Now I got some documentastion.
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