The outrage here over Lou Dobbs is hilarious.

[trumad]

But very symptomatic of how we can be at DU. The dude has always been a knuckle-headed right winger and just because he knocked Dubya around for a couple of months doesn't mean he's on our side.

It's like we lose all objectivity about someone if they bash Bush for a couple of minutes.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Yeah, it's silly.

It's been a very silly day.

[peace frog]

2. So true, but then we're desperate

"It's like we lose all objectivity about someone if they bash Bush for a couple of minutes."
We grasp at whatever straws float by us in the deluge of GOP oppression. But you are correct, Lou Dobbs and all the rest are playing us for saps.

[xultar]

3. We know he isn't on our side but what she said should be spurned

by both sides.

He was basically nursing a hard on. It was SICK. He says he's a journalist...well today he put his Johnson first.

[Poppyseedman]

4. Lou Dobbs has one and only one side

His................

[verse18]

5. Typical repug.

Why is anyone surprised?

[onehandle]

6. He's a traditional Republican, not a Neo-Con.

Which means he's a racist hate-monger.

Coulter is welcome in Lou territory anytime.

And on the Today Show. And everywhere.

She's "mainstream".

[cboy4]

7. Lots of DUers warned you not to suck up

to me so much over immigration!!! See what happens?

[Imajika]

8. Your so right...

I think I've made the same point like 3 or 4 times tonight alone.

Warning of the great Mexican menace night after night, to the point it long ago became obvious the guy is a complete xenophobe, should have tipped people off that maybe, just maybe, Lou Dobbs is not really much of a "progressive" individual.

[AlCzervik]

9. plus he's busy nailing himself to the cross, boohooing how people have

the audacity to dare criticize him, Lou on the cross, he's painting himself as quite the martyr for the middle class.

[Kurovski]

10. There are people who disagree. He's always been pretty fair.

Have you watched Dobbs for 4 years, 6?

Many people have.

I like you trumad, but your condescending insult here really blows the big bent one. :hi:

[unlawflcombatnt]

11. I think he's always been fair as well

I didn't see today's show with Ann Coulter. But Lou's been the biggest advocate for the middle class and American workers on TV. He's been the single biggest critic of Corporate Greed and outsourcing on the air.

He's also interviewed raving, pro-illegal immigrant activists and has been VERY polite and courteous to them as well. He's interviewed far more "pro-illegal immigrant" activists in the last several weeks than people who agree with him.

Despite all the empty rhetoric on this thread, he's never said a word that can be honestly construed as racist. That's just pro-amnesty spin by the activists that don't have any other arguments.

Calling someone a "racist" or a "xenophobe" doesn't' make it so. It does, however, prove that
pro-illegal advocates have run out of any other arguments.

Illegal immigration suppresses wages. There's not question about that, though there are many illogical, incoherent arguments made to dispute it. Illegal immigration uses up taxpayer money on social services, which reduces the amount available for legal American citizens. These are points stressed by Lou Dobbs. And there's nothing even slightly "racist" or "xenophobic" about these statements.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotsForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. Well that's a change since Media Matters proved he lied the last time he

claimed he had more "pro illegal" guests.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200604050004

[Mr_Spock]

21. One issue does not make the man

for me and most other "fair" minded people.

[unlawflcombatnt]

31. What "1" issue is that?

Is it standing up for middle class Americans? Is it standing up for working Americans? Is it opposing Corporate greed and control of the government? Is it opposing outsourcing and sending American jobs overseas? Is it opposing the Bankruptcy Bill? Is it standing up for port security? Is it railing against foreign ownership of American companies? Is it his opposition to selling out critical national defense industries to foreign companies? Was it his criticism of Bush's suspension of the Davis-Bacon act so that reconstruction workers in New Orleans could be paid less than the going wage? Was it his criticism of the Bush dictatorship's mishandling of the New Orleans relief and reconstruction efforts? Is it pointing out that consideration and discussion of a "Gay Marriage Amendment" is completely wrong and inappropriate? Is it Lou's constant criticism of the Iraq War? Is it Lou's opposition to George Bush and all of his policies?

Again, what "1" issue are you referring to?

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[unlawflcombatnt]

34. I agree with you

Mr_Spock,

Actually, I agree with you. I didn't initially follow your meaning. I thought your point was that Lou only had 1 issue he was "good" on. My mistake. Again, there are many positions of his I agree with.

[Mr_Spock]

45. Absolutely - just notice the posts today promoting his latest expose

He's hated one day, loved & pursued the next - he must be doing something right :D

[unlawflcombatnt]

30. Baloney

I've personally watched his show along with my wife on most days. So I don't need to read what some biased source has written. He's had twice as many "pro-illegal" guests as he has "anti-illegal" guests. Some organizations alleged "statistics" prove absolutely nothing, other than their Right-Wing-ish ability to spin facts.

National leaders of "LaRaza" had been on Lou Dobbs at least 6 times in the last 2 months.

And if you want to make completely unsubstantiated claims about "racism," just remember that the translation of "LaRaza" is "the race." Who's being a racist here? I guess it's OK to be a racist, or stick up for your alleged "race," as long as it's not the "white" race.

Talk about complete and absolute hypocrisy. And Dobbs freely has these "racists" on his show all the time.

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[SemiCharmedQuark]

40. I didn't even use the word racist and you say media matters is biased?

LOL

Why don't you start a post about that and see how many people agree with you.

[unlawflcombatnt]

42. Racism & Media Matters

I didn't claim Media Matters made a claim of "racism." I was addressing that to you. Are you claiming that you haven't made the "racist" or "xenophobe" claim in any of your posts?

And now that I've read Media Matters, I don't believe they're even reporting facts. As I said previously, in the last 2 months, Dobbs has had leaders of "LaRaza" on his show no less than 6 times. They've listed only 1 appearance by a LaRaza representative.

They've also falsely listed governor Janet Napolitano as someone who agrees with Dobbs. She does not. She just vetoed an anti-illegal immigration bill in Arizona.

Media Matters also has omitted to mention any of Illinois Congressmen Luis Gutierrez's appearances on Lou Dobbs, and he's been on 4-8 times in the last 4 months. And he is definitely someone who disagrees with Dobbs on this issue. And he definitely was on Dobbs during the time period covered by Media Matters.

Media Matters is basically distorting the truth in this severely biased article. They've understated the number of opponents who've been on Lou Dobbs, mis-labeled one opponent as a supporter, and simply omitted appearances by at least one Congressman.

Again, this Media Matters article is not only distorted, it's outright dishonest.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I had previously trusted them a lot more than I do now.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[SemiCharmedQuark]

49. Now who's being misleading?

I tried to keep this thread about facts, not opinions. So I made no claims of racism, I only stated the facts.

Janet Napolitano vetoed it because of the criminalization provision, NOT because she is pro-illegal. In fact her gubenatorial race is riding on her hard stance. Just because she doesn't agree that illegal immigrants should be thrown in prison, doesn't mean she's Lou Dobb's opponant.

[NNN0LHI]

33. Save your time my friend

The people who defend Dobbs could be presented photographic evidence of him wearing a sheet at a Klu Klux Klan cross burning and they will still defend him.

They think Lou is dreamy.

Don

[unlawflcombatnt]

38. Then "present" the evidence,

instead of providing unsubstantiated, empty rhetoric. You haven't presented fact #1. All you've done is call him names, based on you're deliberate misstatement of his "motivation" about opposing illegal immigration.

Thus far, the only "evidence" you've presented is name-calling and references to other sites that are doing the very same name-calling.

You have no argument whatsoever against Lou. That's why you keep playing the "race-xenophobe" card. There's no logic to you're argument. So you continue to falsely claim "racism" or "xenophobia."

Keep it up. You're not convincing anyone except the minority on DU that already agree with you. You've made it very clear, from your repeated empty rhetoric, that you have no support for your position.

I do want to thank you for completely verifying just how weak the arguments are for open borders and amnesty. In fact, the arguments are non-existent.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[NNN0LHI]

43. Evidence? My choice is I can either believe you or my own lying eyes

Which one you think I am going to believe?

Don

[trumad]

14. Yeah I've watched him for the last several years

and that's what I base my judgement on---He's your typical piece of shit repuke... Thanks for liking me but if you find my tone condensending to those who are fooled by this wolf in sheeps clothing.... oh well...

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unlawflcombatnt]

39. Have you really watched him?

He's the complete antithesis of everything the Republicans stand for. Obviously you have not been watching Lou Dobbs at all. He opposes everything the Bush administration stands for and has even written a book condemning Corporate greed.

He's the best friend working Americans and middle class Americans have on the air today. He's the worst enemy of the Bush dictatorship and the Corporatocracy that supports him.

You must not have anything else, since you have to resort to profanity and name-calling to come up with in order to pull any emotion out of readers. Your "opinion" that Lou is a "piece of shit" is not appropriate for an honest discussion. It's a deliberate flame.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[trumad]

53. OK---then explain his infatuation with Ann Coulter...

Go on--- I can't wait to hear you defend him with that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Lou Dobbs is not "fair"

His reporting on immigration has been one sided and promotes a xenophobic agenda. Here is what Media Matters says about Lou:

Despite a CNN spokeswoman's acknowledgement that the use of a graphic from the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) -- an organization linked to white supremacists -- during an immigration report on CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight was "regettab," the incident was not mentioned during the following edition of the show. As Media Matters has noted, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), the CCC "has described blacks as 'a retrograde species of humanity,' compared singer Michael Jackson to an ape, and promoted neo-Nazi and Holocaust denial materials."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200605250015


And from FAIR:
As FAIR has noted in the past, Dobbs' tone on immigration is consistently alarmist; he warns his viewers (3/31/06) of Mexican immigrants who see themselves as an "army of invaders" intent upon reannexing parts of the Southwestern U.S. to Mexico, announces (11/19/03) that "illegal alien smugglers and drug traffickers are on the verge of ruining some of our national treasures," and declares (4/14/05) that "the invasion of illegal aliens is threatening the health of many Americans" through "deadly imports" of diseases like leprosy and malaria. And Dobbs makes no effort to provide a nuanced or balanced picture of the issue; as he told CNN Reliable Sources host Howard Kurtz (4/2/06): "I'm not interested—are you interested in six or seven views, or are you interested in the truth? Because that's what I'm interested in; that's what my viewers are interested in."
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2867

[Mr_Spock]

20. I agree with him on almost everything except immigration

I can actually watch someone who I don't agree with on every issue.

I respect his opinion for the most part even though I do not always agree with him. He has SPANKED some of the RW elitist money guys like Forbes & others on his show like NOBODY I have ever seen because he understands the money scene.

He's more good than bad and I'm certainly NOT going to pigeon-hole every person who I disagree with on one or two issues that just aren't that clear cut to me anyway.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. I rarely agree with him

He is no different that a RW blowhard to me.

[Mr_Spock]

23. He's a whole lot different that the typical RW blowhard IMHO

All this "outrage" about Lou makes me laugh in the opposite way as the O/P.

It once again shows how intolerant some people who claim to be open minded are.

[unlawflcombatnt]

44. "Rarely Agree with Him?"

So what are the points you disagree with Lou Dobbs on?

Is it standing up for middle class Americans? Is it standing up for working Americans? Is it opposing Corporate greed and control of the government? Is it opposing outsourcing and sending American jobs overseas? Is it opposing the Bankruptcy Bill? Is it standing up for port security? Is it railing against foreign ownership of American companies? Is it his opposition to selling out critical national defense industries to foreign companies? Is it criticizing the U.S. trade deficit? Is it his criticism of the growing national debt? Is it pointing out that even considering the passage of a "Gay Marriage Ban Amendment" is completely wrong and inappropriate? Is it Lou's constant criticism of the Iraq War? Is it because he shows footage of Iraq, showing what a disaster it is? Is it because he criticizes the NSA wiretapping program? Is it because he criticizes the Bush administration's attempt to censor the press? Is it Lou's opposition to George Bush and all of his policies?

Are these all points you disagree with Lou Dobbs on?

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Kurovski]

24. I didn't say he was "fair", I didn't say he was "always fair"

And in FAIR's documentation, not once did they use the term "illegal" when discussing illegal immigrants. so to me, it appears that FAIR is itself "always pretty fair".

Dobbs has discussed the corporations' part in exploiting immigrant workers, illegal and otherwise. He has discussed Mexico's failure in creating an economy that can sustain her own citizens, he has reported on a study that revealed it would cost each American only ten dollars more a year for produce in order to provide a livable wage for farm workers. he has discussed many topics related to this issue.

Dobbs may think he's more balanced than he is, he may go over the top and annoy, (like that never happens at DU) and he is, IMO dead wrong about not wanting to make some peace with workers already here who have been exploited to the benefit of the economy, but in general my experience is that he's "always pretty fair" and that he can be persuaded on some issues.

He's a Republican. I don't ever forget that. He reports on many issues and I see what I see--flaws and all. If that means some find me to be a subject for pity and dismay, so be it.

In my life, after all the two-timing, back-stabbing, bad-mouthing, manipulation, forced group-go-along and dishonesty I've seen in my days I've taken on the adage "to thine own self be true" as my own.

And I'm sure you have as well. And the best thing, perhaps the only thing I can do when it comes to this topic, is to respect that.

[unlawflcombatnt]

41. Truth does not lend itself to opposing "views"

"I'm not interested—are you interested in six or seven views, or are you interested in the truth? Because that's what I'm interested in; that's what my viewers are interested in."

Lou's completely correct on his advocacy of the truth. He has stated his "opinion" on issues and has labeled it as such.

The "facts" however, do not lend themselves to different "points of view." The "facts" are that there are between 12-20 million illegal immigrants in this country. The fact's are that there are 143 million people working in this country, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. This can be verified at Total Employment Illegal immigrants are taking 7 million of those jobs. This means there are 7 million less Americans working than would otherwise be working. There are 227 million working-age Americans. This can be found at
The "facts" are that real wages are less than they were 2 years ago. This can be verified at BLS-Real Hourly Wages[br />
Below is a copy of this chart including both real hourly and weekly wages going through March of 2006



These are all "facts." And there aren't "differing points of view on facts." (Unless you work for the Bush Administration, where facts are simply pulled out of thin air.)

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Mr_Spock]

19. I watched him for several years

I really liked his "outsourcing America" series as it has affected my career personally and he was the only one with the balls to take it on. His views on immigration are neanderthal like, but on the whole he is more of the traditional opposition (ie, Republican), I used to actually agree with them sometimes. I agree with him sometimes, and other times I don't, but I almost always respect his opinion.

I agree with the unnecessary condescension here - funny how this post is purely propaganda designed to influence people...

[NNN0LHI]

12. Lou and the Republicans code word for middle-class = white people

Pure and simple. It has been that way for decades. Funny some people don't realize that yet?

Don

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. LOL good call

[unlawflcombatnt]

46. And you have evidence for this claim?

Go ahead and post any evidence you can find where Lou has substituted the term "middle class" for "white."

[Upfront]

15. Guilty here.

I have now seen the light.

[NNN0LHI]

16. It takes a stand up person to admit when they are wrong about something

Its not easy for me to do I know that. I admire you.

Don

[samsingh]

18. we hope to find some intelligence in the main stream media

sometimes dobbs seems to be coming around - then the truth seeps through and we get very disappointed.

[Tsiyu]

25. Corporate media is designed to make you lose objectivity

It's a poison, a toxin you should seriously consider purging from your system.

But DU is one of the greatest places to vent, so I don't mind the Dobbs bashing at all. In fact, when folks bash the media here, I get to find out what they're up to without having to actually watch them.

Just wear protection, be careful who you suck up to and go have fun, kids! :hi:

[NiteOwll]

26. I've always thought he's a racist, right winger

who rarely takes a fair or objective look at any issue. But that's just me. :evilgrin:

[Rowdyboy]

27. He's a conservative/populist, along the lines of Ross Perot....

His rabid dislike and disrespect of the chimp certainly is heartening, but I know that the man is not on my side, even though we both hate *resident bush.

[ConsAreLiars]

28. Yup. He's just the blond version of Pat Buchanan.

No more integreity. No more insight. Just more jingoistic pandering to the most chauvinistic retards. And enough smarts to fool the gullible. He, like any good whore, has what it takes to earn the big bucks from those who use him.

[WildEyedLiberal]

35. Sort of like all the hero worship Ron Paul gets because he's against Iraq

Ron Paul is a fucking neanderthal, but he didn't support the Iraq war so he gets lionized as some sort of independent maverick American hero on DU. Never mind the fact that he never met a social program he didn't want to destroy - he opposed Bush on one issue so hoo-rah, he must be a DU icon. :eyes:

Something similar happened when Chuck Hagel criticized the Iraq war recently - despite the fact that Hagel is a dyed in the wool conservative, many here acted as though he was more progressive than half the Democratic party because he questioned Bush's strategy.

Seriously, just because someone bashes Bush about something doesn't mean that they aren't bad people themselves.

[unlawflcombatnt]

47. CAFTA

He was also one of the few Republicans who opposed CAFTA. He's also critiqued the Bush administration on its big spending policies.

He's one of the biggest opponents of Globalism on the planet.

You're right that he opposes most social programs. I completely disagree with him there.

But he is definitely not a "lock-step" voting typical Republican. He doesn't cow-tail to the Bush Corporatocracy. Nor did he hesitate to question Right-Wing icons, like he's done with Alan Greedspan on his Corporatist, supply-sider gibberish.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[WildEyedLiberal]

48. No, and he's never been. But there are other bad cons besides neocons

He's a Pat Buchanan-esque paleocon who opposes ANY intervention in the broader world. That's why he's against CAFTA and neocon foreign policy. He's also violently against any immigration, AFAIK, and violently against any social programs - including public education. His beliefs are actually more in line with the wackadoo Constitution Party than the Repuke party, he just runs as a Repuke so he can get elected.

[kmla]

36. Just another angry, conservative white guy who is indignant.

Mass media is chock full of 'em.

He's nothin' special.

Being an enemy of my enemy doesn't necessarily make you my friend...

[Jeffersons Ghost]

37. you're making me laugh at myself right now, because i was loving him

until he sucked butt for a reich-wing semi-female demon on TV. see, the left doesn't call her a witch... I've know several sweet caring people who called themselves witches.

[gizmo1979]

50. so don't fucking watch him then.

Man if you don't like him don't watch,but don't judge me because I like LOU.Man just shut the hell up.

[goclark]

51. How right you are ~ he is one of THEM

Sometimes he plays good cop bad cop but he is still on their side.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. My opinion of Dobbs hasn't changed. He's a racist fathead.