Why is DU celebrating SNL attacks on Bush critics?

[robbedvoter]

Just went to a thread that, without warning sent me to a video in which SNL is lampooning Neil Young and the Dixie Chicks for their "lame" criticism of bush (message- not cool, kiddies). The post speaks of enjoyment and there are 3 votes for it.
Is this more of that battered wife syndrome where we are supposed to show we have a sense of humor by agreeing when people who speak for us are ridiculed?
What's with the GOP SNL hold on DU-ers?
When are we going tpo get what they are trying to do? :argh:

[William769]

1. Where is the thread?

I would like to see whats going on there.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. SNL is hardly pro-Bush.

And laughing at ourselves proves that we are human, unlike the other side.

[robbedvoter]

9. and NYT is liberal and only close elections can be stolen and we

fight them there so we don't have fight them over here and W "won" in 2004 because of the "values" people and there is no difference between the parties....



P.S. You do know Tina Fey is a republican, right? But maybe she is an "objective" Republican, why with the humor and all that...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

26. Wow, that's a whole field of strawmen there.

You can't possibly compare a freaking comedy show with the shithole that is Bushworld.

And about Tina Fey being a Republican? She voted for Clinton twice, and is a registered independent in New York, where she currently lives and works. She was registered as a Republican back in Pennsylvania where she grew up because her family was Republican -- that doesn't exactly make her pro-Bush.

http://www2.jsonline.com/enter/tvradio/apr04/224339.asp?format=print

Q. Are you a Democrat?

A. In New York, I believe I am a registered Independent. I voted for Clinton twice. But in Pennsylvania I'm probably still a registered Republican - I'm from a big Reagan household. And I'm 33. Mostly Ronald Reagan has been president in my life.

[merwin]

3. snl makes fun of everyone.

it is a big sign of insecurity when you can't laugh at yourself every once in a while. snl has no gop agenda at all. If you happen to think so, look at the last couple of weeks. al gore making fun of bush and a skit making fun of bush and frist.

[robbedvoter]

17. everyone - Gore, Clinton, Neil Young, Dixie Chicks, gays...

Oh, right! Also "Dick Cheney is overweight" Nope, sorry, that was part of making fun of Young and Chicks. Silly me!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. Anyone is fair game in comedy

and even our side gets funny sometimes. (Think Sean Penn in N.O.) Earnestness in itself is funny, and so is self-importance. I agree with both the Chix and Neil Young's politics but don't forget they are still making money and as celebreties may have rather inflated egos. They have both had a career renaissance because of this war.

I think the battered wife syndrome is overstating it just a tad.

[HuskerDU]

16. It's true that the Chicks are experiencing a renaissance right

now. But their career wouldn't have needed it if they hadn't spoken out in '03. This band ruled country music at that time and half of pop music as well. All of their success was thrown out the window overnight as country radio and fans dropped 'em.

These girls had worked their way to the top too. They played shitholes all across North America before hitting it big. They were never a Nashville hit factory creation.

Still, I thought the vid was pretty funny!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. Well, I don't begrudge their popularity

at all. Entertainers ebb and flow according to world events and politics a lot. It's part of what they do. The fact that they had the good sense to oppose the war shouldn't be held against them seriously, but it is still fair game.

I also loved Team America for just that reason. Nobody was sacred.

[robbedvoter]

23. Team America - got that Michael Moore guy! Hooray!

Doing the superiority dance for being oh, so above patty partisan politics!
Funny how these two were anti-war in their movie made during Clinton, but stopped as soon as "That's their Bush" came in" FUUUUUNY!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

37. What I loved about Team America

is you could read the RW blogs and they were all about "How can the Left not know TA makes fun of them?" And then the left leaning blogs were saying the opposite. "Are they stupid? Don't they see it?"

TA was an equal opportunity smear job.

[robbedvoter]

22. So, celebrity envy justifies it - I see.

And with this POV I am now forgiving every celebrity that hesitates to take a stand.
I forgot how much we love to eat our own. OK, see if I remember how this goes:
"Hey, how fat is Michael Moore?" (do I get points?)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

40. I will be blunt

I prefer my celebrities to be like...well, hookers. Pay them, enjoy them and forget about them. (and no, I never bought a hooker!) I don't want to mix politics with what is entertainment to me. If when I see an actor in a role and I can't get his latest political stunt out of my mind, then he no longer is any good to me as an entertainer. When an entertainer uses his/her celebrity to push an agenda they move into an entirely different realm. Most of them have the money to be able to do it, and that's fine. But as an entertainer they are useless to me. A case in point is Al Franken and Dennis Miller. Two brilliant, very funny men who now take themselves way too seriously and are no longer funny. Are they effective as political commentators? Perhaps. But they are no longer entertainers.

Michael Moore is an exception to the rule. I personally don't care for much of his work (and that's a whole other thread I don't want to get into right now) but the nature of his work IS political and I would assume, therefore, he has strong political beliefs. But his intention is not as much to entertain as it is to inform and persuade.

[tuvor]

5. I'm only surprised that it's been getting votes because I didn't think

it was particularly funny, aside from the title of the faux-Neil Young CD.

[Captain Hilts]

6. We have humor. They don't. That's why we're 'us' and they're 'them'. nt

[robbedvoter]

15. Riiight. We're so damn superior, we can enjoy being spat in the face

as long as there's a laugh track to it.

[Scoody Boo]

7. SNL is a comedy show...

it is supposed to be satire and lampoon everyone. You can't make a comedy show a truly political podium. The next thing you know, people will thing The Daily Show is real news.

[SmokingJacket]

10. Yep, andTom DeLay thinks Colbert is a fan! Hahahaha!

http://www.defenddelay.com/site/c.fuIWLhMTJrE/b.1084881/k.BE08/Home.htm

[Scoody Boo]

14. See?

That right there is hilarious! Will it sway anyone politically? Probably not, but still funny.

[robbedvoter]

19. Yup, but how does it prove your point?

It's not about 'swaying politically". it's more subtly - about creating a zeitgeist, planting memes: "Clinton had a BJ" "Bush critics are lame" "Gore is a loser" "There's no difference between the parties - voting is lame"

[robbedvoter]

12. And GE brings good things to us!

[robbedvoter]

8. Having humor shouldn't preclude us from seing through a lame scheme

SNL was entrusted for years to tell kids what's cool and what isn't. late night jokesters were enlisted too.
Clinton was excoriated most effectively by those "equal opportunity" attackers - and still is! In the era of Bush, Clinton is still attacked!
Again, for the "equal opportunity' fuzzy-think:
Satire is a weapon. it works when yielded by the powerless against the powerful. When that's reversed, its pure bad taste - like kicking a cripple (paraphrasing Molly Ivins comments on Limbaugh's "humor").
It's a very simple timeless rule : powerful, powerless - what's the "joke" attempting to do?
Why is it enjoyable to make fun of the brave people who speak truth to power? How are we "human" going along with this - and not shoot in the foot idiots?
How many ways does teevee has to shit on us before we get the message?

[Scoody Boo]

18. Comedy should be funny.

That is all I expect. I do not expect comedy to do anything else but make me laugh.

Carlos Mencia is hilarious. So is Lewis Black. They are on opposite sides politically, but both are funny. Which is what comedians are supposed to be.

If our message can be hurt or destroyed by comedy, then it was not much of a message to begin with.

Hell, some politics, both right and left causes me to laugh my ass off without thehelp of any comedian.

[robbedvoter]

20. Powerless to powerful. Or else kicks in the groin.

As long as it doesn't call itself satire, mindless humor can exist outside of political sphere. But attacking the powerless for laughs - do you also laugh at accident sites?

[Orsino]

51. I'm guessing that Neil Young himself got a laugh out of that skit...

...or would have had Spacey's singing resembled his in the slightest, and had the rest of the cast looked or sounded at all like the Disxie Chicks. The execution was a bit lame, but the concept, at least, was worth a laugh.

Unless we really want to be the PC police of the right-wing fantasies, we have to be able to laugh at ourselves.

[robbedvoter]

58. Umm, like Gore laughed at himself for "inventing the internet"

yeah, let's be good aports about them mocking us.

[Orsino]

64. A little like that.

I would be irritated at the perpetuation of that meme, except that it was Al Gore himself poking fun at it, and in the process defusing it further.

[Cookie wookie]

66. Well said. n/t

[rman]

11. "one thread" does not equal "DU"

[robbedvoter]

13. Granted, but see the replies here? DU is of different minds, but

unfortunately, too many of us have been conditioned to accept kicks in the face with a smile - and be proud that "it makes us human". I say let's be less "human" and more aware.

[northzax]

27. politics isn't, in fact, the end all and be all of life

you may not find this particular skit amusing, that's certainly your choice. There really is nothing under or above the blue sky that is sacred from profane humor. If there is something that cannot be laughed about, then I don't want to know. I hope the Dixie Chicks, for instance, would find it amusing that they can now laugh at the ugly situation, since they are obviously winning the war of words.

It's easy to laugh at the top, it's harder to laugh from the bottom, but you still need to do it.

[Jazz2006]

38. And as Aristotle said,

Humor is the only test of gravity, and gravity of humor; for a subject which will not bear raillery is suspicious, and a jest which will not bear serious examination is false wit.

[northzax]

41. old Aristotle was a freeper

surely you know that!

[DesertRat]

24. I saw the SNL skit

Didn't find it funny at all.

[SidDithers]

25. Did you see the Robert Smigel cartoon 2 weeks ago...

the one with the spit takes?

Saturday Night Live is hardly the GOP SNL. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Sid

[robbedvoter]

31. Smigel is good. Krugman writes for NYT - I don't read NYT

In a time whrn media is manipulating us at all levels, when are we going to let go of the illusion that SNL is funny?

[Imajika]

28. Yes, because a comedy show...

...should only make fun of the other side right?

Geeze, it's a damn comedy show. It lampoons everyone. That is what gives it fairly broad appeal and makes it funny. Some people are just too serious.

[Jazz2006]

36. Indeed.

SNL is hardly a bastion of Bush lovers.

It's comedy, for crying out loud.

Hell, I'm going to go and recommend that other thread now, because I don't like people telling me what I *should* and *shouldn't* find funny.

[rug]

29. You should have posted a warning on this post.

[robbedvoter]

32. What would that warning be?

[KyuzoGator]

30. Anti-Bush skits outnumber anti-Dem skits on SNL by about 2 to 1.

You should probably watch more often.

[robbedvoter]

33. As in dems sre losers vs "Cheney is overweight"?

next thing you'll quote me statistics about a majority of liberal journalists to prove to me that the media is liberal.

[KyuzoGator]

39. Perhaps you missed the Gore State of the Union:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fkXy4zNh3kk

[robbedvoter]

44. Not THAT earthshattering from the guy who won.

Again, NYT having Paul Krugman columns still is not "liberal". It's still a shill for bush like all the GE programming. Some day, even you will discover that truth.

[KyuzoGator]

56. Whatever, believe what you want to believe.

I'm not going to waste any more time trying to convince you that SNL isn't neocon.

[blm]

34. Except the GOP has 100% of the power in DC, and it's POWER that deserves

lampooning.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbedvoter]

46. Bingo. If power were equal opportunity, satire should too.

Lampooning the powerless - and especially those who speak truth to power is in bad taste.

[blm]

47. Absolutely. It's actually bad comedic form to attack those NOT in power or

even to MANUFACTURE a false balance. Too bad the news media has no ethical boundaries - and now SNL is following in their footsteps? Michael O'Donoghue would spit at them.

[robbedvoter]

60. "You don't balance the truth by putting on a liar"

E.R. Murrow

yet, it's what they do - and how effective they are you see on this thread. People are actually convinced that Young and the Chicks DESERVE to be mocked for attacking Bush. And that's DU, not "the other place"

[blm]

61. No kidding - I find the trampling of our own to be downright FOOLISH and

in these times when we need every voice and boot we have, it's downright DANGEROUS.

[NYC Liberal]

65. If you think the skit was parodying Neil Young for attacking Bush,

the point was lost on you. It was parodying him, but not for that.

Maybe you should watch it a few more times and maybe you'll get it then.

[robbedvoter]

77. Apparently I wasn't the only one. Other SNL fans agree - and are happy

that big bad famous Neil Young is taken down a peg or two by poor, unknown - oh, wait - by rich and famous as well SNL folks. Just because you enjoy being mocked at, don't resent my clarity. You are being played by SNL just like you were being played by the rest of the media. Have fun.

[NYC Liberal]

78. Wrong. It wasn't about "taking anyone down a peg,"

it was a skit about the very unsubtle title of Neil Young's song: "Let's Impeach The President." It's not a BAD thing. It's just the fact that the title was very to-the-point.

Now, the skit may not have been funny, but that doesn't mean that it's "Bush propaganda." It means that the jokes were bad. And furthermore, I am not being "played" by ANYONE, thank you very much. I am very much capable of discerning what is humor and what is "propaganda."

So let me ask you this: which liberals/Democrats CAN jokes be made about? Or is any humor about Democrats "Bush propaganda"?

By the way, you never answered my questions in this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1306584&mesg_id=1310546

[Patsy Stone]

42. Okay, so I watched it

I had to go find it, since it was so offensive to you you didn't post a link.

1) Who, exactly, do you think that made fun of? Is it not true that Neil Young, the Dixie Chicks and Bright Eyes released songs or albums critical of Bush's horrific polices? It's true, they did, and they weren't that subtle either. Good on them! But how was this a criticism of that fact?

2) Are you blaming Tina Fey because she's the Head Writer? Do you have proof that she wrote this?

3) Perhaps this was making the point that the message of the individual albums was *too* subtle for boneheads to get? Or, that they were right on the mark, and people shouldn't get upset about music in a "time of war"? That, at least, the albums they *did* put out focused on real issues in America worthy of dissent and protest, and didn't include petty complaints like Dick Cheney's overweight?

4) It wasn't a funny skit, it's true, but for the life of me, I can't see how this is offensive. Unless you think that Neil Young and the Dixie Chicks are so sacred that their names can't be mentioned in public?

5) Kevin Spacey: Democrat.

ed: sp.

[NYC Liberal]

43. "GOP SNL" - oh my

:rofl: SNL is by no means "GOP." Open your eyes and get a grip. And a sense of humor.

[robbedvoter]

45. I got me a sense of humor. Colbert report - hysterical. SNL - not so much.

Truth to power rule usually applies to my assessment of satire.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

48. You're confusing satire and parody.

Colbert = satire, SNL = parody.

[robbedvoter]

53. What's the point of parody ? I thought it was to make fun of its subject

In this case it was people who criticize Bush. Ha-ha-ha! Their criticism is so...un-subtle. La-me! Buh-bye! next!
Sorry, you can call it sauercraut and it's still propaganda to me.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

55. Parody serves as a caricature for a ripe subject.

Neil Young wrote a song called "Let's impeach the President" -- not exactly subtle.

That's why he was the subject of the sketch, which jokingly titled his album "I disagree with many of this administrations's policies."

The purpose was to point out the clearly unsubtle nature of the song, a song from an artist normally far more subtle.

And if you think SNL doesn't go after BushCo, you're clearly mistaken. They go after them repeatedly, far more than they go after our side. If one sketch in a 90-minute show offends you, then you clearly have some issues.

[robbedvoter]

57. Oh, so now Neil Young is a ripe subject of mockery for attacking W?

Anyone telling me that SNL propaganda is not effective - just look at your post.
I thought people attacking Bush directly were worthy of our respect and following. Now SNL tells you - and you buy it - it's mockery they earned. yeay! The power of humor! We're so very human! We laugh. Who is subtle enough for you? Lieberman? DLC? Arlen Specter? John McCain? The Bush look alile at the WH press shindig? In what way is criticizing Bush "cool" enough for not deserving mockery by SNL?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

59. Good freaking Lord.

Neil Young wasn't parodied for attacking W -- he was parodied for being so UNSUBTLE about it.

I watched the bit, and I watch SNL all the time, and guess what? I love Neil Young, and I hate W. Of course, you'd only be satisfied if I had that part of my brain removed so I'd just be a bitter and lonely person who never laughs at anything.

Is this how you go through life? Attacking anybody that doesn't fit your perfect image of humanity? Good luck with that.

:eyes:

[NYC Liberal]

49. So then your issue is that you just don't think it's funny, not that

it's "right-wing."

And what Starbucks Anarchist said.

[robbedvoter]

52. Unfunny AND Bush-serving. 2 issues in my little head.

If it were just unfunny, I wouldn't have bothered starting a thread here though. I can accept people's tastes being different.
What burns me is that some of you fail to see what they are doing - and accomplishing. Myddy the waters for people who need clarity. Decide what's cool and what 's not for the young and impressionable. Subliminally tar the opposition.
But then again, it took many of you a while to accept MSM was not liberal (in spite of statistics abpout most reporters being liberal). it's who makes the decision that matters.
Spacey may be a democrat, all writers may not be RW-ers, but the head writer is GOP, GE is her boss - read the Tim Russert story and do the math....SNL used to be subversive in its first few seasons. it's been hikacked from under your noses just like the NYT and the rest of the media. Comedy, scmomedy - it's 80% Bush propaganda - mostly by omission.
I bet in the next few years you'll see it too.

[NYC Liberal]

62. Really? "Bush-serving"? "80% Bush propaganda"?

That's why just the other week they had Al Gore deliver a "State Of The Union", solo, for the cold opening?
That's why they do constantly make fun of Bush?

Maybe you could give me some examples of this "Bush propaganda" you keep spouting about. Like, specifics. You can use http://snltranscripts.jt.org/05/2005.phtm|this site> to help you out.


(BTW...if GE was controlling so much of SNL's content, why would they allow the Gore skit again? Or...why would they allow ANY of the skits making fun of Bush?)

[nutsnberries]

68. hey NYC Liberal....

Stop Making Sense.





:)

[Orsino]

50. Even Neil Young deserves a *little* ribbing.

"Let's Impeach the President" is less than subtle. It is a departure from his usual fuzzy imagery.

[robbedvoter]

54. For what? For criticizing Bush? Why?

This is a guy who gives people a free listen on the internet of his album. What exactly has he done to DESERVE a ribbing from GE TV?

[Orsino]

63. For having a pulse.

It was funny when Dana Carvey did Neil Young's version of The Mickey Mouse Club theme. It was funny when Neil Young himself suddenly turned blatantly and very specifically political. I found it funny that SNL exaggerated that a bit, and laudable that they would poke a finger at * at the same time.

And it was sneaky of them to slip in Young's real song title, "Let's Impeach the President."

[nutsnberries]

67. (i'll take this one)

oh no ! none of what you have mentioned is funny!

Neil is above being the object of satire. He is on the correct side this time, (he was fair game when he was not, btw, yup we tore him to shreds when he thought Ronald Reagan had some good ideas) and although the song and album are not very subtle, and Spacey did a pretty good Neil, we must NOT laugh at this corporate Bush-shilling - and that is ALL that it is!


:sarcasm: and :puke:




{btw, folks.... after watching the spoof (which is probably the first SNL thing i've watched since the last time Neil was the musical guest), i had a house full of people singing along to "let's impeach the president" young and old ... repeatedly ... good times ...}


~cosmicbandita, the author of the thread that spawned this one. :hi:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

71. Did you see the sketch where John McCain sang Barbra Streisand's songs?

The punchline was him saying, "Do I know how to sing? About as much as Barbra Streisand knows how to govern!"

:rofl:

But be careful not to laugh -- if you do, you're lending comfort to the enemy. :sarcasm:

[merwin]

79. I thought that was one of the best lines ever.

McCain can really deliver a good punchline :-)

Does that make me a right wing facist, that I laughed at a joke about a democrat from a republican? Hell, I laugh at a lot of the crap that Bush says when he's trying to be funny. Doesn't mean that I'm now supporting the GOP. It just means I have a healthy sense of humor.

I like to take the side of how an Israeli newspaper responded to Iran's holocaust contest by having a contest of their own... the Israeli Anti-Semitic Cartoons Contest had a drive to find a Jewish artist who could produce "the best, sharpest, most offensive Jew-hating cartoon ever published."

[Lerkfish]

72. a perpindicular point: Young did not "suddenly" turn political

He has in the past made political antiwar songs (4 dead in Ohio). I think its more accurate to say he is not afraid to write political songs, but does it when he feels like it.

fyi, this is his first album, of any kind, in a long time.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

73. Didn't the "Prairie Wind" album come out a few months ago?

[Lerkfish]

74. I stand corrected, then, if so.

[Orsino]

75. Yes, he did.

"Ohio" was thirty-five years ago. Along the way, there have been songs with political overtones, but Living With War is solid commentary, certainly a departure for him.

A long time? He has been giving us new albums every year or two. Prairie Wind was made last year, and Greendale was released in '03. Before that, there was indeed a lull after 1997's Year of the Horse.

[wizdum]

69. I haven't watched Saturday Night Live in ages...

...it's just not funny, IMO. In fact, I think the show sux, but to each, their own.

[RDU Socialist]

70. wow, you need help

the message of the sketch isn't "it's not cool", it's simply making fun of the fact that neil young's song titles are incredibly blunt in what he's trying to convey.

God, grow up.

[LynneSin]

76. Remember that anyone can nominate a page

and I believe that even non-star members can nominate.

So if JoeBlow freeper has an account with 1 post then they can nominate a thread.

I wouldn't read much into it nor would I read much into the SNL skit. They lampoon everything from both sides of the political spectrum