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Coalescing Evidence of Massive Voter Registration Fraud in Ohio 2004

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:17 PM
Original message
Coalescing Evidence of Massive Voter Registration Fraud in Ohio 2004
More and more evidence continues to accumulate that Voter registration fraud was responsible for a great deal if not the total Bush vote margin in the 2004 Presidential election. The latest evidence comes from Mark Crispin Miller, as documented in his recent book, Fooled Again How the Right Stole the 2004 Election and Why Theyll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them). Added to previously existing evidence, the evidence presented by Miller makes it all but incontrovertible that massive voter registration fraud was a major factor in Kerrys loss of Ohio. Only an idiot or a liar could look at the current mass of accumulated evidence and conclude that there is not a huge story there:


Discrepancies between NY Times reports and official voter registration figures

I initially suspected that there was something very wrong with voter registration in Ohio, and especially in Cleveland, when I discovered a HUGE discrepancy between reports by the New York Times of massive new voter registration in Democratic areas of Ohio (ten times that of Republican areas) and official voter registration figures. I posted a DU article entitled New York Times Reporters Probably Hold Key to Proving Kerry Victory in Ohio, in which one of my main points was that the Times reporters identified 230,000 new voters registered in heavily Democratic Cuyahoga County in 2004, compared to official Secretary of State figures indicating only 119,000 newly registered voters in Cuyahoga County. I suggested at the time that a major reason for the discrepancy of 111,000 voters was either illegal purging of voters or fraudulent manipulation of the official figures to hide the fact that votes in heavily Democratic areas were electronically deleted on Election Day, or a combination of those things. Along these lines, I later posted another DU article, entitled What Happened in Cleveland a Plausible Scenario for a Stolen Election, where I estimated that if the discrepancy between the official figures and the newspaper reports was due to voter registration fraud, that could have cost Kerry about 46 thousand net votes in Cleveland.


Confirmation by Greater Cleveland Voter Registration Coalition

Having failed to get the NY Times or its reporters to respond to my enquiries, I managed to get a large degree of confirmation from Norman Robbins, leader of the Greater Cleveland Voter Registration Coalition. According to his figures, as communicated to me by e-mail, there were160,894 new voter registrations received by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections in 2004 (compared to 31,903 new voter registrations in 2000). This was about 42,000 more registered voters than the 119 thousand increase in registered voters between March and November of 2004 indicated by the official figures (though Normans number of newly registered voters in Cuyahoga County is somewhat less than that identified by the New York Times.) The discrepancy between Robbins figures and the official figures could be due to purging of newly registered voters, or failure to process the new voter registrations, which Robbins describes in his report.


Illegal purging of registered voters

Confirmation of the probable reason for the above noted discrepancies came from research by Victoria Lovegren, who posted a report at Ohio Vigilance which indicates the purging, apparently illegal, of 165,224 voters from Cuyahoga County alone, for no other rationale than that they hadn't voted recently. Dr. Lovegren notes in her report that this practice violates the National Voting Rights Act. This matter is still being investigated. We don't know at this time precisely when these purges occurred, though it was some time between the 2002 and 2004 November elections. Perhaps the most troublesome aspect of these reports is that the purging appears to have been done discriminately, that is, with no specific criteria for who would be purged.

Dr. Lovegren's report also notes numerous other issues of serious concern, including the following:
 Registration applications being rejected for trivial reasons.
 Insufficient staff to deal with all the applications for voter registration.
 Requests for absentee ballots not responded to.
 Hundreds of long time voters missing from the voter roles
 Jammed phone lines on Election Day, so that voter inquiries couldnt be answered
 The public was not allowed to watch the provisional ballot verification process.
 Numerous voters did not receive provisional ballots as required by law.
 Numerous dirty tricks aimed at disenfranchising Democratic voters.


What effect did this have on the ground? Evidence from Mark Crispin Millers Book

A question that is often asked of me when I talk about voter registration fraud in Ohio is what effect the purging of Democratic voters would be likely to have on the election results. There are two lines of doubt that have been expressed to me on this question. One is the question of whether newly registered voters would be as likely to vote as would long time voters. This question is answered in the Democratic National Committee (DNC) report on the 2004 Ohio election. According to Section VI, Figure 12 of that report, new voter registration was correlated with high voter turnout, meaning that in general, newly registered voters were more likely to vote in the Ohio 2004 election than were previously registered voters.

The other line of doubt is the question of whether people who are purged actually are prevented from voting. I am asked, Couldnt these people re-register after they found out that they were purged? I would answer this question by saying that maybe they could re-register if they know they were purged but an unknown number of these voters didnt know until Election Day. But I didnt have much of a sense of how frequently the purging would actually prevent voters from voting until I read Professor Millers book.

In that book, Miller recounts his conversations with Denise Shull, a poll checker in Summit County. During the course of her work on Election Day, Shull noted that approximately 10% to 20% of registered Democratic voters on her list were not on the official list of registered voters. Furthermore and this is very important these voters were described as ardent Democrats, as long time voters in the area, AND most of them were not voting. A possible reason for their not voting is suggested by an encounter that Shull had with one of these voters as the voter (or more precisely, non-voter) was leaving the polls. This voter was simply told that she couldnt vote and was given a phone number to call. And even more disturbing, Shull noted three of her fellow Democratic volunteers who described to her very much the same phenomenon occurring at the polling places where they worked that day.

What Shull describes not only provides confirmation that legally registered voters were purged from the voter rolls prior to the 2004 election, but indicates that most of these voters ended up not voting. What effect would this have had on the net vote count?

As I noted above, I calculated that with some modest targeting of Democratic voters, the purging of voters in Cleveland alone would have resulted in a net loss to Kerry of about 46 thousand votes. Targeting of Democratic voters in Cleveland could have been done relatively easily, since Cleveland is heavily Democratic (voted 83% for Kerry, 16% for Bush in 2004), and many precincts in Cleveland voted more than 90% for Kerry. In order to target Democratic voters in Cleveland, one would merely have had to pick out those precincts with a history of voting 90% or more for Gore in the last election.

But what about Summit County, the county where Denise Shull and other Democratic volunteers described on-the-ground evidence of voter registration purging, and where only 57% of voters voted for Kerry. Voter purging in Summit County would have been much less efficient than voter purging in Cuyahoga County, because any voter purging that occurred would have included a large proportion of Republicans as well as Democrats. Unless .


How could voter purging be made more efficient in counties with large percentages of Republican voters?

Millers book also describes a break-in at Democratic Party headquarters in Akron, Summit County, in the summer of 2004. The only thing stolen was two computers with Democratic campaign-related information on them. A similar break-in occurred three months later in Lucas County, and was described by the Toledo Blade. One can guess that with voter information obtained from these computers, the targeting of Democratic voters in these two counties could have been made a lot more efficient than it could have been without that information.


Conclusion

So, we now have:

1) A discrepancy of more than a hundred thousand between New York Times (and other newspapers) reports of a massive increase in new voter registration and official Secretary of State figures in Cuyahoga County alone.

2) Partial confirmation of the above from the Greater Cleveland Voter Registration Coalition, which shows a similar (though lesser) discrepancy

3) An explanation for the above discrepancies from the identification of the apparently illegal and targeted purging of 165,000 Cuyahoga County voters.

4) On the ground confirmation of voter purging of an unknown but probably huge number of voters, from Mark Crispin Millers new book.

5) Also from professor Millers new book, a probable explanation for how Democratic voters were targeted for the voter purging (via the theft of computers containing Democratic voter registration information).

6) From point number 1 above I calculated a net loss to Kerry of about 46,000 votes. But that calculation is based on the discrepancy between official figures and the newspaper reports of 111,000, not the 165,000 purged Cuyahoga County voters identified by Dr. Lovegren. AND, it doesnt assume the ability to specifically target Democratic voters. With specific targeting of Democratic voters, that number could be much larger. AND, thats just for Cuyahoga County.

7) The discrepancy between the official figures and the newspaper reports involves much more than Cuyahoga County. And the evidence in Professor Millers book also involves counties other than Cuyahoga. When other voter registration fraud from other counties (for which we dont have specific numbers) is added to that from Cuyahoga County, who can tell how many votes John Kerry lost in Ohio?

8) Just about the only thing missing at this point is for someone from Diebold (who handled much of the voter registration in Ohio, including Cuyahoga Co.) to tell us how this was done. Isnt anyone from the mainstream media interested in this?
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
A very troubling read....
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SushiFan Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just heard this today,
Looks like they stole not only 2000 from We The Voters but also clearly now the 2004 election( ! ) as well.

We might as well be living in Cuba or North Korea the way these GOP prix have killed America's democracy.

BTW, how do I K+R? This news deserves it and I would if I knew how! <embarrased>
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. you kicked it by replying to it....
each response "kicks" it to the top of the page.

You can recommend it for greatest by clicking on the words "recommend for Greatest page" at the bottom of the original post.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. I agree -- and I think that the evidence that they're killing our
democracy is all around us, not just in the election results.

This is the most corrupt and ruthless administration in memory, probably ever, and the most corrupt Congress as well. They have no respect for our constitution, or any law for that matter. And they virtually own our corporate news media.

Thanks for the K and R.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. We have got to get this information out before the midterms!
Thanks again, TFC for another enlightening post!
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R Thanks for your work.
Makes me sick all over again.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Thank you - But sorry to make you sick all over again
Of course almost everything that this administration does is sickening -- and a grave threat to our democracy, or what is left of it. So I think it's important to keep up the pressure on them and their enablers in the MSM.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. Thanks for posting this TFC - but please don't call them "the MSM!!"
There's NOTHING "mainstream" about their sick agenda of greed and manipulation. Please call them what they are, the Corporate Media.

B-) :thumbsup:

NGU.


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
63. I agree with your characterization of them
But it's hard not to think of them as "mainstream", since most Americans consider them to be mainstream.

What about the "MS"M?
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. I got myself Miller's book for "the holidays"
I can't wait to read it. In fact, I should turn off my computer and start reading it now! :P
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Me too! I was so happy that, when I walked into my
Edited on Fri Dec-30-05 10:18 PM by IndyOp
local leftie bookstore, "Fooled Again" was sitting right there on the shelf waiting for me!

I've been reading "Ultimate Sacrifice" about JFK murder and haven't gotten very far - it is 900 pages!

I will follow your good example and turn off the computer and go get "Fooled Again" - :)

I am hoping Mark will start posting chapters online soon, if he can get publisher's permission - it is the best way to get the word out!

:kick:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
58. I recommend it highly
Lots of good stuff in it, but I found the voter registration purging to be the most significant.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. IMHO Ohio was only the tip of the iceberg
I believe a lot of what was done there was also done in many other states.

The real question is now many ppl did take part in the fraud???? The more ppl, the more likely the true will come out like what is happening at NSA.

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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
44. Even in Colorado..a normally red state there were many televised
reports of people that were not allowed to vote or the process of re-registering was made so impossible for them they just walked away.

I noticed that the majority of people being shown in those reports were minorities. How many of them were Democrats? We will never know because the big story after the election here was VOTER fraud not ELECTION fraud.

I think this was done all across the US.

Personally, my guess is that if all these issues had been non-existent Bush would have lost by a landslide. All he really needed was Ohio, but I think the election was rigged everywhere.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. Yes,
there was a voter registration scam in Oregon that was exposed during the summer of '04. Last I heard, as of a few months ago it was still being investigated by the State of Oregon Attorney General's office.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. I think you're right
In Miller's book there are numerous stories of Sproul & Associates, who did everything in the book, and outside of the book, to suppress Democratic voter registration. It was probably more pervasive and systematic in Ohio than elsewhere, but it definitely occurred in many parts of the country.

I believe that voter registration fraud played a bigger role in this election than anything else.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. kicked
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Tfc: have you submitted this material as a guest editorial or article
to any major newspapers? If couched as a national issue (which of course it is) you could make your points about Ohio and the need for national election integrity at the same time.

Alternatively, you could contact people like Robert Koehler and Molly Ivins. I would guess that have a recent event or revelation as an initial focal point (e.g., "X happened this week, another example of why the questions about the 2004 election have not died away") would also help.

Great, great work.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Thank you Bleever -- I was planning on notifying
The Ohio Project, the Brad Blog, and Mark Crispin Miller. OK, I can see contacting Robert Koehler and Molly Ivins as well.

But with regard to a major newspaper, do you really think that any of them would touch it? I have severe doubts about that. I don't know -- I think that I should send it to the others first, and if they think there's a chance of a major newspaper being interested, then maybe they will help me with that. What do you think?
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. My thought about major papers
comes from the fact that the San Francisco Chronicle (my paper) often prints opinion columns or guest articles from people unaffiliated with the paper who may or may not be syndicated writers. I have to say that I don't know their policy beyond the fact that they often feature pieces by guest contributors on topics of serious import, even if they are in-depth looks at evolving stories when they concern deep matters that have obvious relation to ongoing developments in the news (as this has).

My suspicion is that there are other big dailies that do too. Again I'm guessing here, but I think that papers like the Boston Globe, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the Star-Tribune in the Twin Cities, and the Chicago Tribune might have submission guidelines on their websites.

And how about the Toledo Blade? Have you broached this with anyone at The Free Press?

And again, it's a national story. Ohio is the focus, in the way that you'd care for your whole body by taking care of your appendix if it had burst. You're talking about the health of the whole nation here as you delineate the ways the disease hurt Ohio.

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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. probably not the Boston Globe...
i haven't seen a good opinion piece from them in a few months... are they a NYT paper? Anyone know who owns them? What about Knight-Ridder? any word on the buyout?



...little stickers for placement in public restrooms...

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
35. Thank you Bleever -- I sent this off to several places, including
The Ohio Project, The Brad Blog, MCM, Molly Ivans, Robert Koehler, and Joshua Boak (the only contact info I could find) at the Toledo Blade. Maybe I'll send it off to some of those other papers as well. Of course, anyone else, especially if they have any contacts with a newspaper that might be interested in this, is free to contact them as well.

I certainly agree with your characterization of this as a national story. We can't very well win an election when key swing states are under the control of people like Kenneth Blackwell and Jeb Bush.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
51. Best of luck!
And thanks again for your excellent work on this.
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furrball Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why don't you post this on the Election Reform forum?
There it can be vetted by people who've been following the story unfold over the past two years or more.

They are the ones who've been conferred the honor of the "tin foil hat" for the very same information.

It is a shame that the "Election Forum" is now hidden, because has long been an insider's site to get the breaking news.

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. furball - time for change is well know in the Election reform forum
I know of Vickie Lovegreen too. Case Ohio, no electric ballots-- etc.

Truly a band of brothers and sisters--

K N R-- Really good read-- Time for Change
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Ever since the Election Forum became hidden, a lot less people see stuff
that is posted there. For that reason, a lot of us have been posting on GD and GD-P, so that our posts get a lot more visibility.

Once a thread gets onto the greatest page, I think that most of the people in ERD will see it anyhow, since I believe that most of them watch the greatest page because they know that a lot of election related posts will appear there. But if I post something in GD that doesn't get onto the greatest page, if I think it's important I will post a cross-post in ERD so that they will be more likely to know about it.

Most of us in ERD felt pretty bad when ERD got taken off the front page. I posted a poll in ERD to ask whether people thought that ERD should be placed back on the front page. The response was overwhelming -- 355 people voted, and 83% of them voted yes. Here is the poll:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. Hi furrball!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
53. Welcome to DU, furrball! From your comment, you've been familiar
with DU for some time, but it's good to see you joining in the discussion. :hi:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R with real enthusiasm and gratitude. Glad this is in GD, where more
people will see it - you can post a brief heads-up with a link to this main thread in the Election Reform forum.

It's not just the hacked machines and the long lines - they were taking NO CHANCES, and STILL our so-called representatives too often deny the obvious. Thank whatever good there is in the world for heroes like Conyers, Boxer and their truth-telling colleagues. And for our never-give-up fighters for the truth at DU and other online sites, like Time For Change and others.

Also don't miss this related current thread on the continuing DENIAL by all-too-prominent Dem politicians that elections have been stolen: How many of them are even willing to admit the possibility of electronic election fraud?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (12/30 Election Reform): Mark Crispin Miller: Why Dems are in denial about the stolen election

And ask yourselves - at what point will the loyal followers of Dem politicians who continue to waffle on the Iraq war and evade discussions of electronic election fraud FINALLY realize that their continued support of these people is NOT in the interest of this country?

Well done, Time for Change!!! :patriot: :yourock:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
32. Thank you very much Hope
I certainly share your sentiments regarding heroes like Conyers and Boxer. And let's not forget Keith Oberman.

I'll send this off to a few places, as suggested by some of the posters to this thread, and we'll see what happens.

Did you see the e-mail I sent you on this subject?
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. No, I didn't see it. I've just sent you a PM.
...and :kick:
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. kick kick kick
The biggest story of our time. This is why we have war, torture, etc.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for keeping this alive.
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. I expect the NYT will retract their story--like the exit pollsters did
Move along. Nothing to see here. :sarcasm:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. "Isn't anyone from the mainstream media interested in this? " NO
Of course not, even though you've written their story. They've never had more to crib from, especially on an anonymous forum. This is excellent and it's all "gathering" with intent to answer a question. You've got the various scenarios laid out. It's like global warming, the question now is not "if" but "how," or in your case "how many."

I simply can't understand why CM is so damn lazy. This took time to gather, I'm sure, but that's their full time job, they get paid for it too!

I hope somebody is interested. My contact with people who were hot on the trail in Florida 2000 but are not "naysayers" tells me that some of them have the ability but none have the inclination.

Sometimes I think that our only hope, and it's a significant chance I believe, is that the masses decide that "this guy had to steal it" after a few more months of * between 35-40% in real polls. That's sort of like getting the answer right without know how you did it but who cares, for the immediate task, "ending the madness."

Excellent work.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
47. Thank you auto -- I think you answered your own question in your sig
The CM isn't lazy -- not at all. They simply have a very strong interest in maintaining the status quo. Even if they thought that Bush was bad for the country, and bad for them as well, they would be afraid of how the masses would react if it was admitted that an election was stolen. They cover news that reflects badly on the Administration only when they feel that they have to -- otherwise they will go to great lengths to avoid doing that. Anyhow, that's my opinion.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. I agree. And to cover election fraud now means it wasn't covered
when it mattered. That would implicate the press in our current woes.

However, there is hope. "Greed is good." Somebody can make a lot of money and garner a lot of fame by breaking the story in a serious way. Once the opportunity arises, if the whistle blower or bearer of great evidence shops around, he/she will find this greedy reporter and we will all benefit. Even the current system can work.

I'd gladly go back to what I was doing prior to all this if someone would just publish the truth. You lay it out here, I've done so elsewhere. What more do they want. It's better than those "term paper" services...anonymous posters are not likely to complain ;)

Nice work.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
20. DIEBOLD handled voter registration in Ohio??? That's news to me
Your point #8: "Just about the only thing missing at this point is for someone from Diebold (who handled much of the voter registration in Ohio, including Cuyahoga Co.) to tell us how this was done."

This one surprised me - How widely is it known that Diebold handled voter registration in addition to voting in Ohio for the 2004 election? Do you have a link for this? Surely someone has commented before?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Here's a link for the use of Diebold's DIMS system in Cuyahoga County
http://ohiovigilance.org/Counties/Cuyahoga/Analysis/Cuy...

Actually, Diebold handled very few of the individual voting machines in Ohio. I believe that they did that only in Hardin and Lucas Counties.

But I believe that they supplied at least some, if not a lot of the central tabulators.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks. and a kick.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. Diebold doing voter registration. There's a head exploder.
Great work.

:kick: and recommended.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
60. Thank you -- and it looks like they do voter registration in much the same
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R and you know what's great....
every time folks like you gather ever increasing evidence that elections were stolen, it makes the mainstream media all the more irrelevant. More people need to get their news from the blogs.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
61. Isn't that the truth?
The DU is a wealth of news. It is certainly my primary source, and has been ever since I became totally upset with the MSM for their utter failure to cover controversy over the 2004 election.

The only problem is that there are still too many people who it for their news source, and too few people who use the DU and other similar forums.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R. . . . .n/t
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. Interesting that these problems always come up in states
where the person in charge of the election is a bigtime Bush backer...
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
65. What a travesty that such scum like Katherine Harris in 2000 and
Kenneth Blackwell in 04 were in charge of the elections. Both party hacks who couldn't care less about honestly carrying out the functions of their office. They both made a mockery of our claim to be a country of laws, and if we slide all the way into fascism they bear a good amount of the responsibility for that.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
Thanks for sharing!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
30. With regard to my last sentence in my first paragraph of my OP
What I definitely had in mind when I wrote: "Only an idiot or a liar could look at the current mass of accumulated evidence and conclude that there is not a huge story there", was our corporate news media - NOT fellow DUers who might disagree with me on this. I feel that our corporate news media is largely responsible for our loss of democracy, by virtue of the fact that for many years now they have served as tools of the Republican Party -- which is now probably the most corrupt bunch of political hacks who have ever ruled our country -- under the guise of journalism. They have been willing participants in allowing the Bush Administration to lead us into a fraudulent war, they have covered for * every step of the way and were a MAJOR reason why he is now our "president", and they have steadfastly avoided covering any controversy over the election. :mad:

But after sleeping on this I realized that some DUers may have taken my statement as a means of stifling dissent within DU, and I'm sure that such a statement would serve to stifle dissent within DU, and that is something that should not be done. I have respect for DUers who voice unpopular opinions within this forum, just as I have respect for DUers in general for voicing opinions that are unpopular with mainstream Americans. So, I should not have made that statement, or I should have found a better way to say it.
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freedomfries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. kick & thanks for your post TfC
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
36. Look at this info from Lucas County, OH:
-October 4, 2004 was filing deadline for new voter registrations. At that point there were approximately 20,000 unprocessed voter registration applications with less than a month before the election. One mail tray containing 4,500-7,000 (estimates vary) unprocessed Project Voter registrations were discovered on or about October 18,2004.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation pg 10

http://www.sos.state.oh.us:80/sos/ElectionsVoter/OhioEl...



***Of interest here is information obtained from the SOS website entitled ElectionsVoter/results 2003 and 2004 which show the # of registered voters number change from 03-04 was 11,947 in Lucas County: reg voters 2003 in Lucas=288,190 ; registered voter in 2004=300,137.


hmmh...
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Hmmm indeed
Do you know if Diebold with their DIMS software was also in charge of voter registration in Lucas County?

I think I'll have to read up more on Lucas County. There were so many "irregularities" in Ohio in 2004 that I might not have paid enough attention to Lucas County.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I was looking @ Lucas when the Noe scandal broke. The fact that
the corruption was so bad that Blackwell was forced (read: cya) to investigate the BOE tells a lot. Funny, that Tom Noe's wife was Chairperson of the Lucas County BOE while all these "irregularities" occurred isn't it? It was weird that Tom Noe was in contact with kkkarl before the elction then his wife's BOE has the most serious problems and it just happens to be a high Dem couty. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. In MCM's book he notes two counties where breakins into Dem. headquarters
occurred and computers with voter information on it were stolen.

One of those counties was Lucas, and this is also noted by Richard Hayes Phillips. So there is a partial explanation for the oddly low new voter registration numbers for Lucas County: The opposition obtained Democratic voter registration information, which they then used to purge Democratic voters.

This also fits with the NY Times article that said that new voter registration in Dem. precincts was huge all over the state. They don't give specific numbers for Lucas County, but certainly this points strongly to the likelihood, when combined with the computer thefts, that Lucas was one of the counties targeted for Democratic voter purging.

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yes, the breakin occurred in mid October-acouple weeks b4 the election.
LINK:

Lucas County Democratic headquarters burglarized

( THE BLADE/LORI KING )



The Lucas County Democratic Headquarters was burglarized overnight, and three computers, including the partys main system, were stolen.
The computers contained highly sensitive information, including the partys financial information, names and personal phone numbers of hundreds of party members, candidates, and volunteers.
The computers also stored e-mails from candidates that included discussion about campaign strategy.

A second computer, belonging to an attorney-volunteer working to ensure voters rights, also was taken, officials said. The headquarters on 1817 Madison Avenue does have an alarm system that volunteers believed they set late Monday when they left.
However, it apparently wasnt tripped during the night. Workers arriving about 7:30 a.m. yesterday noticed the back window had been shattered and called police.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2...
******************
Funny, the alarm wasn't tripped. It was also weird that the burglary at the Ohio Democratic Party last summer wasn't a break-in but that theives entered through an unlocked open window into ODP Chair (then) Denny White's office.


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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. Looks like the pieces in this criminal puzzle are out there, waiting for
more people to put them together at last. Thank you, TfC!

Over 50 votes on the Greatest Page - too bad it's not on the DU home page, but there's no predicting how they make their selections. The readers have made their belief in the importance of this thread clear. Let's hope that this interest proves very contagious in the new year and that the story continues to grow in completeness and public interest.

The burglaries of the Dem computers with their sensitive databases reminds me (and I'm sure you and a lot of other people) of the Watergate break=in.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Blackwell's Investigation into Lucas County, OH:
for the newbies:

**Blackwell, OH SOS Investigation of the Lucas County BOE

includes the fact that REPUBLICAN VOLUNTEERS were allowed UNSUPERVISED ACCESS to UNSECURED BALLOTS prior to the election, as well as this list:

*failure to maintain ballot security
*Inability to implement and maintain a trackable system for voter ballot reconciliation .
*failure to prepare and develop a plan for the processing of the voluminous amount of voter registration forms received.
*issuance and acceptance of incorrect absentee ballot forms.
*manipulation of the process involving the 3% recount.
*disjointed implementation of the Directive regarding the removal of Nader and Camejo from the ballot .
*failure to properly issue hospital ballots in accordance with statutory requirements.
*failure to maintain the security of poll books during the official canvass
*failure to examine campaign finance reports in a timely manner.
*failure to guard and protect public documents.
*failure to guard and protect public documents ....etc.


-One-half of the ballots printed and used in the 2004 general election in Lucas county were stored in an open space on the fhird floor of the county warehouse with no security measures in place.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation on Lucas County BOE page 4



-Live ballots were delivered to polling locations a week in advance of the election. Although the ballots were retrieved, one board employee who was assigned to the warehouse informed the SOS staff that he did not believe all the ballots were successfully retrieved.
SOURCE; SOS Investigation, page 5



-Lucas County BOE failed to record or retrieve ballot stub numbers of absentee voters ballots as required by statute OH Revised Code 3505.23. It was reported by an elector that her mother had received not one, but three absentee voter ballots. there was no way to determine if similar incidents occurred and if so how many.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation, page 7




-October 4, 2004 was filing deadline for new voter registrations. At that point there were approximately 20,000 unprocessed voter registration applications with less than a month before the election. One mail tray containing 4,500-7,000 (estimates vary) unprocessed Project Voter registrations were discovered on or about October 18,2004.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation pg 10

***Of interest here is information obtained from the SOS website entitled ElectionsVoter/results 2003 and 2004 which show the # of registered voters number change from 03-04 was 11,947 in Lucas County: reg voters 2003 in Lucas=288,190 ; registered voter in 2004=300,137.



-In late September or early October an employee of the Ohio Republican Party contacted Sam Thurber (*involved with politician wife Maggie Thurber in Noe scandal.) wanting to inspect and have copies made of all recently returned voter registrations, Ohio Republican Party offered to furnish volunteers to assist with copying postcards. No one at the Lucas County BOE can confirm that anyone was assigned to supervise Republican volunteers. On their second day of copying, a BOE employee, Jennifer Bernath, Democratic Booth Official) saw republican party volunteers peeling off the yellow return stickers applied by the post office. (Violation of RC 149.43 (B) (I) , and agruably a violation of 149.351.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation, pgs 18-19



-The Swanton 3 poll book turned up missing and has never been recovered.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation pg 16


http://www.sos.state.oh.us:80/sos/ElectionsVoter/OhioEl...


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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
46. KnR TfC!!! Thanks for all you do! n/t
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. 49 votes & a 4 star rating on the greatest page
truly should give some idea on how good of a piece this is TFC. Really well written.

In fact I opened the daily thread with your piece--
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Thank you very much Foger -- Let's hope we can make some inroads into the
"mainstream" media this year. :toast:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
69. Thank you Melissa -- When is Freeman's book coming out?
I'm very much looking forward to reading it. Any hints for us on any surprises that it may contain? :)
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
55. It's hard to believe after 5 years this issue has yet to be taken up k&r
let alone fixed by our 'leaders'

hopefully we will have new leaders soon who recognize the crisis we are all suffering through by the hard work and commitment by dedicated activists gathering this info and passing it on.

thanks for sharing :toast:

peace
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Maybe this DU threads explains why:
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. we definitely need to clean house-almost our whole body politic is corrupt
we need massive awareness campaigns to get this info out there and the only realistic place to start is the www.

thanks for sharing :toast:

peace
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. on PPI's (read: DLC's) Will Marshall
Edited on Sat Dec-31-05 04:50 PM by mod mom
More about Will Marshall (head of DLC thinktank-PPI called Clinton's idea mill *Note: thanks to LunaC's excellent post)
Note the PNAC link to the left.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295

This was a revelation to me !

LunaC's post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #55
74. These things take time
This is indeed a dark time for our country and the world. But if we keep on plugging away at it we will be successful.

Here's to having new and better leaders in 2006. :toast:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
57. Yet another outstanding post, Tfc. Thank you. K&R&Bmk'd.
Happy New Year.


Peace.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
70. Thank you ul
You keep putting the pressure on the criminal leaders of our country, and our own Democratic leadership as well, and our Democracy may be saved yet.

Happy New Year to you. :toast:
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Bushy Being Born Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
66. That's all well and good, but my question is - who cares?
I've been pleasantly surprised a lot of times recently because of further evidence surfacing around the country, but, really... Nothing ever comes from it! Most Americans simply don't seem to care, in the unlikely event that they get any information whatsoever from the MSM. :shrug:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. This will come out as the BFEE crumbles. The evidence has been collected
Edited on Sat Dec-31-05 05:50 PM by mod mom
by the staff of the House Judiciary Dem staff. When the whole house of cards collapses, the theft of the past elections will come out. The Dems are without subpoena power,+ can't hold hearings but mark my words this year (2006) there will be candidates who will raise the difficult questions and expose the crime.
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Bushy Being Born Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. I can only hope you're right
Or, more than that, I can do my part to make it happen. That will be my new year's promise - to do whatever I personally can to make this a nation I can once again feel proud to live in. Sorry for sounding like a pessimist in the earlier post. Happy new year, DUers. Never give up!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Things take time -- history moves slowly compared to our own lives
It seems like a long time to us, but the theft of the 2000 election happened only 5 years ago, and the theft of the 2004 election happened only a little over a year ago. In historical terms, those are very short times. Revolutionary changes are built up over a long period of time, one brick at a time. We shouldn't lose hope because we can't change things overnight. It's the long haul that's important.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
71. Plain Dealer will pick this up;
Columbus Dispatch won't. Hell, they did not endorse Glenn once! Cincinnati enquirer and Post won't pick this up. How can we get this out to the public? I believe the post, however to the general public it would seem to be just another conspiracy theory by the liberals. I'm not giving up, I just want to be realistic in this and can't afford the emotional highs and lows. Sorry for a bummer response!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. 70 votes for the greatest page, 5 star top of the page billing

W O W

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Thank you for your support Foger
That's exactly 70 more votes than I received for my last post! Go figure.

Anyhow, all the feedback was great, and I got lots of advice, and sent this off to several other places. Let's hope that this gets some wider exposure!

Happy New Year :toast:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #73
79. Just to clarify the above deleted message
This was my post, which was deleted by the mods at my request, because I accidentally inlcuded my phone number in it :blush:

It was a response to greiner3, where I said that I was taking his/her advice and writing a letter to the Cleveland Plain Dealer about my story, and I included a copy of my letter in the post. I removed my name but forgot to remove my phone #.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
77. .
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liam_laddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
78. NYT notices elections systems problems
Edited on Sun Jan-01-06 04:57 PM by liam_laddie
Maybe the issue is gaining traction in the public consciousness? Along with the (5)! LTTE's
published last Sunday (12-25-05) about untrustworthy elections systems, activists are seeing
a bit more CM attention given to our goal of truly honest, open and fully-auditable elections

Today (1-1-06) the NYT's Business section has a column by James Fallows about technology
advances, page 2. The last paragraph is copied below the link. I don't like his reference to the
Carter-Baker Shamission, but the link to VerifiedVoting can't hurt.

<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/business/yourmoney/01... >
-----------------------------------
A final point, and no joke: The most important tech-related question of 2006 is whether America's
electoral system will become more trustworthy, or less, as it becomes more computerized. The
technical steps needed to make computerized voting fair, accurate and accountable have been spelled
out repeatedly (and discussed here), most recently in a report by former President Jimmy Carter and
James A. Baker III, the former secretary of state. Many states have passed appropriate laws, but many
other states and the federal government have not. If anyone is looking for a political cause,
I suggest this one. <VerifiedVoting.org> is a good place to start.
-----------------------------------
Happy 2006 and may election reform be enacted to our satisfaction!
Bill O'Neil


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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
80. Thanks for posting n/t
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
81. crossposted at this website
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #81
84. That's great -- Thank you for posting this n/t
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
82. Cuy Co Prosecutor Bill Mason
Has he done anything to follow up on these reports?

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. I don't know anything about that
I don't even know if he knows anything about voter registration fraud in Ohio.

Do you think he would be interested in this, and if so, do you have any contact information for him?

Thanks.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
85. I'm one of the ones who was purged
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 09:05 AM by ohio_liberal
Nobody was able to tell me why, and nobody admitted a mistake.

Voters in Ohio are required to register 30 days before an election. On the day before the 'cutoff' my neighbor called me and told me that her husband had been mysteriously purged from the list of registered voters. He had to go to the county elections office and re-register. So I thought I should call too and check to see if my name was still on the list. I felt a little paranoid. I called the next afternoon and it was a good thing I did because I was taken from the list of active voters as well. I don't understand why. None of my information had changed and I have voted in every single election since I turned 18 in 1985. I re-registered with 20 minutes left to go before the office closed and the cutoff was complete.

I'm wondering how many others in this county were victims of purges as well. I'm guessing there are plenty.

The county board of elections is in total disarray. When I voted this past fall the poll books at my polling place were not alphabetized correctly and many cards were simply missing. Those people had to vote with provisional ballots. The county disallowed 60+ percent of provisional ballots. When asked why this had happened, the county deputy elections officer (who also happens to be a Republican) answered with this .... "We aren't mind readers." Good answer, lady. :(
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Thank you for this information
In answer to your question of how many other voters in your county this happened to, if you were from Cuyahoga County, the answer is probably over 165,000, and probably almost all of them were Dems. (See OP, "illegal purging of voters").

IMO this is a huge scandal and it probably cost Kerry the election and therefore is the reason why we are at war and on the verge of losing our democracy.

What county are you from?
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. I'm in Belmont County
Harrison County had similar incidents but not as many disallowed provisionals. Harrison County also had some crackpot try to challenge 700 voters about a week before the election (as some sort of surrogate of the state Republican party). He didn't bother to show up at the election board hearing so they dismissed the challenges. IMO, the guy should've been charged for interfering with the election process and for signing the paperwork stating he had info the the potential voters were fraudulent. Most of this stuff got little press statewide but it was big news locally.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Geez, they probably did this all over the state
I don't doubt that it cost Kerry 200 K votes.
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