Advertising on DU: Stage Two

[EarlG]

Earlier today we began testing Google ads on our Latest page, per the announcement that Skinner made yesterday.

Here's what you should know about Stage Two:

1. We have now added Google ads to discussion threads. There is a set of "link units" at the top, and a banner ad at the bottom. There are also two other banner ads which drop into the thread depending on how many responses there are (the first one appears at five responses, the second appears at 25 responses).

2. Once again, we are testing to see which placements are most effective. This layout will remain in place until we have enough information to figure out which placements work best; after a while we may move the ads around so that we can test different configurations.

3. Once again, WE KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE ADS FOR CAUSES YOU MAY NOT WANT TO SEE. There may be some weird ads served up during this test period because they will be targeted to the topics of the threads themselves (in theory). It's possible that there will also be a disproportionate number of military ads to begin with. This is because the thread we were originally testing this on was a thread about veterans' rights. The military ads should disappear after a while.

As a reminder: we can filter ads from certain URLs but only after we see them, and it takes a few hours for the filters to take effect. So please don't start tons of threads complaining about all the ads you don't want to see. We'll take care of them as they come up.

4. Once again, feel free to click on ads which interest you, but don't be fooled into thinking that you can support DU by running all over the page clicking ads over and over again: first, it will artificially inflate our CPM rate so we won't get an accurate idea of how much money we can raise through the ads, and second, Google considers this kind of behavior to be fraudulent. So even though the ads are new, please treat them as you would on any other site.

5. Thank you again for your continued patience and understanding as we test out these ads!

EarlG, Skinner & Elad

[originalpckelly]

1. I think I prefer the top thin strip to the bottom banner ad...

It is noticeable, but not annoying. I hope that one does well because I think most people wouldn't mind it at all.

[annabanana]

5. I DEF. prefer the little one on top... but here's a question..

(Why does DU want me to join the Military?)

on edit: just reread #3 above... but I must admit it was a bit jarring...

[liberalnurse]

2. If you are interested in curbside feedback...

I don't care at all for the ad-links showing just below the thread/ preceding the reply posts after you click onto the thread to access. It is a bit overboard and intrusive.

[MadHound]

6. Yeah, I'm with you on that one

Don't mind them on the main pages, but in the thread themselve is annoying as hell.

Just my .02.

[crispini]

18. Word!

The little ones at the top are not so bad, but right in the middle of the thread... ew.

[liberalnurse]

38. To support my opinion, think of it this way.....

One clicks onto a thread because they have been intrigued by the topic and desire to read it and/or discuss the issue. The ad is just a stimuli option to attract ones interest.

When you have already clicked into a thread, the ad becomes a pure distraction...it interrupts the train of thought one had when they entered the thread. The ad's purpose should not be to distract but to evoke interest.

[bryant69]

8. I agree

I guess i could put up with it if you aer bringing in some serious scratch, but . . . it's still annoying.

[truebrit71]

26. Me either....I HATE ads to begin with, but placing them right there..

..is annoying....

I understand WHY you want to runs ads, but please try to think about the flow the thread when searching for locating them....As it stands they are quite distracting...

[shanti]

47. isn't that the point with ads?

:shrug: but fwiw, i find the google ads' placement annoying too.

[NYC]

37. I'm getting the ads, and not the original post sometimes.

Oh, well.

[trotsky]

62. Same here.

Worst possible spot. The rest, while I don't like, I can live with.

[Up2Late]

63. I'm with you on that one too.

And I hope these RW bogus survey (Hillery or Condi?) ads go away soon. They are just bad sites to avoid.

[babylonsister]

3. I have a question, admins. I assume

all these ads take up space. What if we reach Deathcon6 on some important issue. Won't the ads slow everything down further? As you can see, my limited computer skills are showing, so if I'm way off course, I'm sorry.
Thanks!

[Warren Stupidity]

4. OK I think it is too much.

I didn't mind the ads in the latest page but I don't like them everywhere, which is pretty much where they are now. In my opinion the ads ought to be limited to 'entry' pages, whatever that means, and should not be as pervasive as they now are.

[TimeChaser]

7. The top ads arn't bad,

but the larger ones below the OP are annoying.

[meegbear]

9. ^^^ I don't care for the Goolge ads above ^^^

That's a bit much.

[rocktivity]

75. I agree--when I click on a thread, I want to start reading it

I think they work better on the bottom. You're done reading the thread, it has time to load, and once you get the subject matter synchronized, they'll be more relevant and less resented.

:headbang:
rocknation

[JuniperLea]

10. You can't please everyone... so let 'em bitch

You guys do a great job here and if a few ads can bring in a few shekels, more power to you!

I'll try to pay attention to the ads... Over the years I've pretty much trained my eyes to put such things on auto-ignore:)

Someone suggested the ads go down in case of a "hugh" story breaking to save bandwidth... Quite frankly, I always thought the lounge should go down to save space under such circumstances... the palaver rarely draws me in anyway.

[underpants]

11. What's with all the military stuff?

Not that I mind it but it just seems a bit misplaced as most DU'ers aren't in their prime recruiting demographic.

[EarlG]

14. If you read the OP you'll find out

[underpants]

17. Oh...yeah ...then there is that option

3. Once again, WE KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE ADS FOR CAUSES YOU MAY NOT WANT TO SEE. There may be some weird ads served up during this test period because they will be targeted to the topics of the threads themselves (in theory). It's possible that there will also be a disproportionate number of military ads to begin with. This is because the thread we were originally testing this on was a thread about veterans' rights. The military ads should disappear after a while.

[JuniperLea]

16. Shhhh...

Let 'em spend their (our) money needlessly:)


:rofl:

[warrens]

12. What's with all the military stuff?

Methinks they are barking up the incorrect oak.

[benburch]

31. Context.

When there are people talking about War, you get Military ads.

On White Rose, context sensitive ads don't work so well as they are all for florists.

[muriel_volestrangler]

78. I'm trying to work out why all ads for me are about Pink Floyd

Seriously, 6 out of 6 on this thread; 6 out of 7 on another. Ah well, at least everyone should get them now I've put them in the subject of this post. :D

[Richard D]

13. Slippery slope

Personally I'd rather donate regularly to DU (I like the FUNd drives!) than see ads.

[jsamuel]

15. pardon me...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

ok, I really don't like the one that displays under the op.

[quinnox]

19. lol well at least the ads aren't in every line between messages...

but although I don't like em, it is not my site that is trying to make money so what can I say.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Well donors may feel like it is 'their site' to a certain extent.

I guess I have mixed feelings about this. First I am a bit pissed that there are nearly 90,000 registered users but we couldn't even get 1200 donations this time. Sheesh. That said, I hate the google ads but am willing to tolerate them in moderation. I think we just crossed the line regarding moderation when they started appearing underneath the OP of a discussion.

[quinnox]

27. yea

that makes sense, donors should have more weight put into their input on these ads by the admins IMHO

[Sarah Ibarruri]

79. I'm pissed off too. If everyone had given $1 to $20, we'd not need ads nt

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. It's getting a little out of control.

There are ads all over the place.

[leftstreet]

25. I tried to recommend a thread, and almost got a date

:rofl:

[The_Casual_Observer]

30. Well, in that case it might not be too bad.

[suffragette]

51. LOL, I've been doublechecking before I click

so I don't accidentally click on one.
It's slowing my clicking quite a bit.

[dalaigh lllama]

86. Splurt!

:spray: Thanks, leftstreet :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

"I tried to recommend a thread, and almost got a date"

Well, here I am, reading all these serious posts, and then yours pops up. God, I just love this place.

[TimeChaser]

21. Could you switch the lines?

With the smaller ads below the OP and the larger ads above, it might not break the "flow" so much :shrug:

[etherealtruth]

22. Actually, it's not too bad

How's that for noncommittal? It really isn't very distracting.

I donate regularly and I donate as much as I can .... but like many (NOT all) others it isn't that much.

I consistently wish DU well and hope this works out as intended (or better).

[MaineDem]

23. I'm sorry but I don't like it at all

I find the ads annoying and distracting from the content on the page.

It looks cheap.

My two cents.

[truebrit71]

28. Upon further review I have to change my earlier comment..

..above AND below....wow it REALLY mucks up the thread....It is VERY annoying....and I DON'T want to join the military, I am NOT glad that W won, even if it means I get a free Razr, and I get as much humour as I need from friends and co-workers...

THESE ADS SUCK.

[Avalux]

29. I don't like the ads below individual posts.

You've done such a good job with the layout of DU, the ads are making it too busy.

I'm being honest, hope you don't mind.

:hi:

[Bonobo]

32. I HATE the ads that try to look like posts on "LATEST"!!

Truly loathsome and most unwelcome sight here on DU, our refuge from that crap.

Also, I do not appreciate this being done right after a fund drive.
I am hurting financially but I dug into my pockets BECAUSE I knew that DU relied on donations.
I feel a little bit duped.

[The_Casual_Observer]

33. I am afraid that some of these ads will load spy wear & browser

Hijack shit. Particularly the "click for free stuff". This could be dangerous.

[icymist]

34. Thank you.

I'll be censoring what I say accordingly. Thank you to warn us that we are being watched.

[Bucky]

35. I would prefer the ads to be on the side or at the very top. Not inbetween

Not in between the OP and the replies. Ads shouldn't break up the flow of the conversation, just serve as a mild distraction, like newspaper ads. News ads occur available space, not smack in the middle of the paragraphs of an article. That makes aesthetic sense and clearly draws a physical line between the ad space and the editorial content space.

[catmandu57]

36. I can live with them

I hope you guys get the filters installed, I've seen some offensive stuff so far.

[symbolman]

39. Fine with me

sheesh folks, imagine you're reading a great magazine and there are ads on the page, and even here and there in the text, it's the norm, and for a great cause and source like the DU, it doesn't bother me at all..

as long as they aren't those damn "floating" ads designed to hide text and get in the way, like a cat that wants to be fed while you read he paper :)

Whatever you guys like, okay with me, and CONGRATS to EarlG on a Merry wedding!

[DinahMoeHum]

40. Don't want the ads in the middle of a thread, either. . .

way too much. Bottom of the thread is OK with me.

[AirmensMom]

41. I don't like the ads at all.

Too bad it had to come to this. :( They really spoil the look of the site and I never click on them. The ones directly under the OPs are really annoying. Talk about a lot of clutter! Can you provide a profile field that lets us turn them off completely?

[TrogL]

42. I'm impressed

I didn't even notice they were there, and I'm not fond of google ads. They appear on my own website and they're in your face and usually wildly off-topic.

Here they seem to be behaving themselves, at least so far.

[TrogL]

50. ewwwwwwwwwww

I'm on the thread about the athiest removing crosses.

I got:

Ultrasound Agnostic Atheist Fetus Fetal Islam

:wtf:

[benburch]

43. Okay, Guys... TOO MUCH.

Crank back the number of ads a bit! There *is* such a thing as too much, and we are there.

[suffragette]

53. Agree with you, benburch

These are multiplying like little bunnies, but they are nowhere near as cute.
Way too much.

[benburch]

60. The ads between the message and the thread list are profoundly ugly.

Those MUST go. (In My Humble Opinion, of course.)

[suffragette]

65. Hard on the eyes two ways

Ugly and small enough to strain the eyes.
And it's not even about wanting to read them causing the strain, but seeing them and trying to avoid clicking on them instead of on the item I want to click on.
I can handle some here and there, on top or the side, but I really dislike the ones between the message and the thread.

[Swamp Rat]

66. Ditto! I very much dislike ads underneath the OP of a discussion, and

under the "replies to this thread." It is very disturbing, and as you say, ugly.

[liberalnurse]

73. What does "OP" actually stand for?

I work with way too may abbreviations in my job to remember everyone....

[Swamp Rat]

81. Oxycontin Pig

:D ... just kidding, and amusing myself. :D Otherwise, it means "Original Post(er)." ;)

[liberalnurse]

84. Thanks!

:hi:

[Maven]

72. Agreed.

The ads IN BETWEEN topics on the latest page are plain obnoxious.

[johnnie]

44. A little weird

But I figure in a short time I will be used to them.

[aquart]

76. I won't.

They bounce and kill my ability to focus. I don't do particularly well with moving emoticons, either.

The duty of the ad is to steal my attention from what I'm trying to read. Well, that part is working. My focus is shot to hell.

I feel dizzy.

[New Earth]

45. i don't like them either

:( not at all

[uppityperson]

46. NO ads between OP/posts please, NONE between posts on disc. pg

put them at the top or bottom, please NOT between the OP and replies. And please take them out between the topics on discussion page. I am clicking on them by accident. That is too much. Please.

[skids]

48. Technical detail and MNSHO...

The ad below the OP is sometimes too big for it's frame or whatever. When scrolling down the tread with the mouse wheel it itself scrolls when the mouse goes over it -- causes an annoying ripple on my browser, and I could see potential for some browsers might choke up and stop scrolling the page entirely.

As far as the ads go, in general I prefer the ones placed in static positions to any that "pretend" to be threads or replies.

[Jersey Devil]

49. This Reply was brought to you by Tide with Lemon Fresh Borax

"An anthropologist at Tulane has just come back from a field trip to New
Guinea with reports of a tribe so primitive that they have Tide but not
new Tide with lemon-fresh Borax."
-- David Letterman

[MazeRat7]

52. I've often wondered how effective their "targeting" was....

Personally, I am looking forward to seeing how far the technology has come over that past several years. The holy grail being to parse a web page and put up ads that are "compatible" or "complementary" to that pages content. It should be interesting to see if we start getting ads for natural health care items, or non-fiction/political book releases, indy dvd's, hybrid autos, consumer product reports,...etc, etc...

Just thought I would throw that into the mix...

Watching with interest.

MZr7

[JanMichael]

54. Buy buy Miss American Pie. Took my CPU to the DU and the DU...

...was saying FU.

Them Google boys were saying BUY and BUY and singing this will be the day that I BUY...

Buy Buy.

[liberalnurse]

74. That is adorable!

:bounce:

[NNN0LHI]

55. Ads no good. My machine running like a dog on DU now

Maybe I need a new machine?

I can't afford one. :(

Don

[Jigarotta]

56. about point #4.

4. Once again, feel free to click on ads which interest you, but don't be fooled into thinking that you can support DU by running all over the page clicking ads over and over again: first, it will artificially inflate our CPM rate so we won't get an accurate idea of how much money we can raise through the ads, and second, Google considers this kind of behavior to be fraudulent. So even though the ads are new, please treat them as you would on any other site.

==
as most of us know there are people from free republic and other places not 'democratic' that register here occasionally.
could they cause DU some hardships with Google if they do the no no multi-clicky thingy?

Seems like something to be thinking about.

[IndyOp]

57. HOW MUCH CAN I DONATE TO GET ADS (& STICKIES) TO GO AWAY?

I just installed Customize Google for Firefox so I could suppress the ads, but they are still there...

I'll give more $$ to get the ads to go away! Just name your price!

I avoid TV because I am a person, not a consumer. I hate ads, I hate salespeople. I am willing to get used to them here at DU, but they are *all* over.

How about 'testing locations' on successive days instead of testing 4 locations all at once?

Sorry for whining, but letting people donate $X.XX to have the ads blocked may be an option that benefits DU...

:thumbsup:

[Swamp Rat]

67. Like a premium member fee?

I'm down with that idea! :thumbsup:

Not only would that make DU members like you and I happy, but it would also generate even more revenue for DU.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

83. Swamp Rat, I'm with you. Premium member vs. Google ads...

For the sake of this country (and my sanity :) ) it would be more than worth it! MKJ

[peacetalksforall]

58. There may be a psychological and political benefit to some entity

that DUers might be repulsed by if that entity gained a political - pyschological advantage by 'bragging' that Democrats and Independents buy from them, read their stuff, spread their message, or whatever 'etc' they might dream up.

'We' might have to consider that the American Spectator, for example, gets their ad placed here by Google then spouts off about getting Dems to link, order, read their article about xxxx.

Hope it's just a matter of programming by Google/DU to get the safe advertisers on board.

Course, safe to Jack may not be safe to Jane.

[Coexist]

59. Is there any way to "box" the ads between OP and responses?

they are just floating there offending my delicate sensibilities!

Seriously, they need anchoring or something.

[SmokingJacket]

61. Yes, I dislike them in the threads very much.

All around the edge of the main page is one thing -- but in the thread just makes it tiring to be here.

[VegasWolf]

64. Okay. Having seen the new ads at the top of the "latest" threads, they

aren't too bad. If they pull in revenue for a great site like this, then OK!

[hunter]

68. Put the ugly one between the original post and reples at the bottom?

Probably get less hits there, but it's too distracting where it is, and the links are hugely long when you mouse over them. I get a big ugly yellow band across my screen if my pointer happens to land on them.

[mcscajun]

69. OUCH, this hurts.

Advertising on the left side of the main pages, fine. No problem; bills must be paid, and they've got to be paid somehow. But these new Google Ads are just WAY Too Intrusive, and cluttering up the place.

Advertising between the "breadcrumbs" banner for a discussion page is one thing; annoying enough but I could ignore it after a time, but right between the OP and the responses? EEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUWWWWWWWWWWWWYYYYYYYYYYYYYYUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK. Talk about a way to kill a train of thought, mood, et cetera.

Ads before the Announcements, pushing the Latest and the Greatest even further down the page? Totally inappropriate. There's a place over there I suppose where they could be used to break up categories. After Announcements, After Latest, that kind of thing; but let's keep in mind the Announcements are of more importance to us than the ads.

Ads breaking up the thread listing in the middle of the Latest page? See EEEEUUUUWWWWYYYUUUCCCKKK above. Plus, there's insufficient white space now between threads on the list. :ugh:
Makes it very user UNfriendly to read.

And to think I heard George Carlin doing the Advertising Lullaby just this afternoon on the way home from work...

"Quality, value, style, service, selection, convenience
Economy, savings, performance, experience, hospitality
Low rates, friendly service, name brands, easy terms
Affordable prices, money-back guarantee.

(snip)

No cash? No problem! No kidding! No fuss, no muss,
No risk, no obligation, no red tape, no down payment,
No entry fee, no hidden charges, no purchase necessary,
No one will call on you, no payments or interest till September.

Limited time only, though, so act now, order today, send no money,
Offer good while supplies last, two to a customer, each item sold separately, Batteries not included, mileage may vary, all sales are final,
Allow six weeks for delivery, some items not available,
Some assembly required, some restrictions may apply."

Much more to this one, but you get the idea. AAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EarlG]

70. Thanks for all the feedback

No, seriously. :)

The Admins pretty much agree with you all on this one. We're not very keen on it either. We'll be making some adjustments shortly. Thanks again for your continued patience. We'll be playing around with this for a while.

[hashibabba]

77. I'm new here..

but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents anyway. I don't really mind the ads, mainly because they're all over the place everywhere else I read. So I'm used to them. I never even notice them. They're like a border around the perimeter of the page. Of course, I'm so immune to them, I don't even to see them to click on them (because I'm never interested in all that junk, anyway).

But I do have to say the ones after the OP are just awful. I'm glad you've noticed that too!

[EarlG]

71. Latest update here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1284527

[gristy]

80. As others have suggested, I think if you have a star you should

have the option of turning the ads off. Best of both worlds then, I think.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

82. I pretty much hate it. Of all the changes made, this is the only

one to which I've had an unpleasant visceral reaction.

DU currently resembles a Google search page. I really liked the DU look, even as it morphed and evolved. The generic Google page look is discouraging.

Scrolling down a page and encountering ads is the unhappy icing on the cake.

I think we need to contribute a lot more money.:cry:

Just my two cents. MKJ

[LiberalUprising]

85. I don't see any ads

Not complaining though, maybe adblock is taking care of them cause I do see them with IE and they do look cheap and tacky as some others have said. Don't like it a bit

On edit

Yes it is adblock, just turned adblock off and there they were and back on it goes, thank the gods for ad block!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

87. "thank the gods for ad block"? Advertise much? n/t

MKJ

[LiberalUprising]

88. Hey if YOU want to look at ads

be my guest but really aren't we bombarded with enough ads in daily life already? If I want to buy something it damn sure won't be on the basis of a cheesy add on a website.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

89. I apologize for snapping at you. I guess I'm still getting used to the ads

which I'm not particularly thrilled with, and just reacted to your post without thinking.

MKJ

[LiberalUprising]

90. Think nothing of it

I've done the same myself, in fact I was a little harsh with my reply as well

Thanks BHP :pals: