We should form a new National Organization of Gun Owners

[rpgamerd00d]

I am not joking.

Someone who is motivated, dedicated to gun ownership and (preferably) rich, should literally form a national organization of gun owners, that promotes the right to own guns, and yet shares the views of liberals in tight gun controls and safety. This would be the home of non-radical-right-wing-nutjob gun owners who believe in the 2nd Amendment but NOT in the agenda of the RightWing nuts over at the NRA.

Ideas for a name:
National Organization of Gun Owners (NOGO)
American Gun Owners Association (AGOA)
American Gun Rights Association (AGRA)
American Gun Rights Organization (AGRO)
Gun Rights Advocates of America (GRAA)
Gun Owners of America (GOA)

Feel free to add good (non-silly, please) ideas for a simple name that has a good acronym that could really seriously take on the NRA.

[goclark]

1. I think that is a marvelous idea!

I have 3 friends that would join immediately!


The CONS think they own the gun issue and Jesus too.
We let them have both and Moral Values too.

[StellaBlue]

2. This is pure genius.

I don't have a gun, but I know plenty of people who would sign on (I'm in Texas! haha).

Who is the rich sponsor going to be?

You can totally organize this on the net, though. Perhaps in the meantime. If you have thousands of interested people who are willing to be active, or even pay minimal dues, it will be much easier to get a major patron to head it up.

To quote the Dixie Chicks, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition! :D

[TygrBright]

3. National Gun Rights Organization

heeheehee... you KNOW what it would end up being called. Sorry, sorry, sorry... it is a BIT silly and I apologize. I just couldn't resist. But I AM supportive of this idea though I'm not a gun sports person myself and don't own any guns. Nor do I have any plans to. However, if I WANTED to, and were prepared to commit myself to learning to do so safely, I would appreciate having the right to do so.

So yes, I'd support such an organization and would even be willing to join as an "associate" or whatever, so long as it didn't involve me with any of the extreme nutjobs advocating total freedom to stockpile missile launchers, etc.

supportively,
Bright

[benEzra]

20. The NRA supports the National Firearms Act...

So yes, I'd support such an organization and would even be willing to join as an "associate" or whatever, so long as it didn't involve me with any of the extreme nutjobs advocating total freedom to stockpile missile launchers, etc.

Using that criterion, you'd agree with the NRA, which supports the provisions of the National Firearms Act that restrict missile launchers...and automatic weapons, and sound-suppressed firearms, disguised firearms, sawed-off shotguns, nonhunting firearms over .50 caliber, and Kevlar-piercing handgun ammunition, and...

The NRA's position is that an adult with a clean record who has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent should, with a background check, be able to purchase and own any non-automatic civilian firearm under .51 caliber that meets the other restrictions set forth in the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968. You'd never know that from reading prohibitionist press releases, though.

[Wickerman]

4. Interesting

You might also post in the Gun forum and get input from the regulars, too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. I saw this idea briefly in another thread

I think it's an excellent idea. The NRA has become little more than a RNC auxilliary.

Gun Owners of America gets my vote.

I don't own a gun (I think families are generally safer without them), but I support reasonable gun ownership (waiting lists and assault rifle bans are fine with me).

[-..__...]

12. There's already a GOA (Gun Owners of America)

http://www.gunowners.org

You might be a bit surprised to know that they're even more right leaning and more supportive of the 2nd amendment than the NRA.

[MrBenchley]

65. They're headed by Larry Pratt, a racist so virulent

that Pat Buchanan had to flee his company publicly.....

[benEzra]

18. Actual assault rifles have been banned/tightly controlled for 72 years...

by the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934, and have absolutely nothing to do with the gun-control debate as it stands in 2006.

If you're thinking of "assault weapons"--by which the prohibitionists mean any civilian rifle or shotgun with a handgrip that sticks out, any civvie shotgun with a detachable magazine, any civilian shotgun that holds more than 5 shells, or any civilian handgun or rifle that holds more than 10 rounds--bans are entirely unacceptable.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Banning the kind of guns you DON'T have is okay, those you do - not okay.

The post you were replying to was meant to be an example.

I find the absolutism on which kinds of weapons are okay and which are not to be puzzling. Any regulation is subjective, for you a detachable magazine is an absolute necessity, but others won't feel safe unless they can buy RPG's and .50 caliber rifles marketed as capable of taking down an aircraft.

Public safety and personal freedom are often tradeoffs. In the area of guns our policies lean far toward personal freedom, in the area of speech and freedom from unnecessary search and siezure, completely the opposite.

The reason is because the former involves commerce, and we sure as heck don't want to mess with that. :eyes:

[benEzra]

25. My point was that gun owners support the restrictions on RPG's,

automatic weapons, and such. The NRA has been on record in favor of such restrictions for, oh, seven decades now. That's a red herring.

We oppose .50 restrictions because the gun-ban lobby is full of crap on the "taking down an aircraft" BS, and are merely using scare tactics to try to shatter the compromises embodied in the National Firearms Act. The group behind the .50 hysteria (the Violence Policy Center) states it's after all precision rifles down into the .30 calibers. I don't own a .50 and likely never will, but I might like a precision rifle in .30-06 or .338 someday.

Point of fact, .50's were pitched to the military on the grounds that they could be used to disable parked airplanes, electronics boxes, and such. A hole in a fighter's engine compressor casing grounds it.

What you can't do with a scoped precision rifle and civilian ammunition is to blow up a plane, or hit a plane in flight or during takeoff/landing. That's the stuff of Ahnold movies, not reality.

[hootinholler]

39. Caliber shouldn't be the deciding factor...

Energy delivered by the round should, if we need a limitation there at all.

-Hoot

[jody]

44. A group in England wants to ban all guns with projectiles delivering

energy equivalent to a tennis ball dropped from shoulder height. The Guns Forum had a thread on that topic a year or two ago.

[Paladin]

61. "Scoped Precision Rifle"?

Oh, you mean a sniper gun......

[-..__...]

70. I guess benchrest shooters are wanna-be snipers in your opinion then?

"Hey! Lookie there, Earl, there's a 747 sitting on the runway. Betcha I kin put a piece'o lead in that pio-lets right corner pocket from here".

Earl <crushing Strohs beer can> Belch... yer on.



http://www.rbgc.org/benchrest/benchrest.htm

[derby378]

6. I've got the site, but if only I were rich...

Still, here it is for what it's worth:

Amendment II Democrats

BTW, "Gun Owners of America" is already taken.

[rpgamerd00d]

9. This needs to be bi-partisan, so a site with the word "Democrats" won't do

Sorry.

But its a very nice site!
:)

[Jonx6]

11. Interesting site...

[SeaBob]

7. Guns

I think Wayne la Pierre has done a great deal of harm to America. I grew up hunting and remember when the NRA was respected by all Americans, not just gun nuts

[Montagnard]

8. I agree

The right has coopted too much and conflated them into movements for the upper class.

the Association of American Gunowners

AAG

[madinmaryland]

10. Sounds like something that Michael Moore could do really well!

I think he is a member of the NRA, but despises the way it has been hijacked by the right-wing nut jobs.

[mcscajun]

15. He joined the NRA pretty much as a subversive act.

Not because he ever supported them.

He joked with Tim Russert some time back that he joined with the hope he could some day be elected their president and switch the NRA over to supporting gun control.

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

27. Uh...Bowling For Columbine shows that he joined as a kid.

Pretty much as soon as he learned how to shoot. What he said to Russert might well be why he STAYS a member, though. :)

[mcscajun]

34. I stand *(or in this case sit)* corrected.

Thanks. :)

[jody]

45. "switch the NRA over to supporting gun control" is why the Repugs now

control the NRA. That battle was bloody a few decades ago between the NRA incumbents who either supported stricter gun control or were silent on the issue.

A group of pro-RKBA mavericks wrested control from the incumbents and quickly made the NRA a very powerful lobby group for pro-RKBA. Shortly thereafter Repug activists recognized that RKBA could be a divisive issue and used to swing elections. Repug leaders got in bed with the new NRA leaders and the result was presidents like Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II.

Our Democratic Party platform says "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do." See http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

Unfortunately four Democratic senators use their star quality attention to attract media and tout banning handguns, etc. As a result independent voters believe we Dems or gun-grabbers.

Is it possible we pro-RKBA Dems could make our party take a stronger position on RKBA?

[doc03]

50. Bush 1 actually quit the NRA after Wayne LaPeire made

a comment about the FBI being "Jack Booted Thugs." I quit the NRA when they came out against putting "taggets" in explosives to help identify their origin after the Oklahoma City bombing.

[jody]

52. Yes but that was 1995 after he used the NRA to get elected president. nt

[doc03]

53. I suppose you're right, was it after Oklahoma City?

[jody]

54. OK Explosion was April 19, 1995. Bush resigned from NRA on May 3rd, 1995.

[ShaneGR]

47. He was being sarcastic....

He enrolled at a VERY young age, if I'm not mistaken it was as a child and because his father was a member.

[mcscajun]

49. See post #34.

:)

[blondeatlast]

57. Edit--I see that you acknowledged the mistake. Very cool of you. nt

[mcscajun]

58. See post #34.

:)

[Minnesota Libra]

13. I have in the past and currently do own guns and................

....all are registered. So why more restrictions? The only thing I'd like to see is a gun organization not controlled so much by neocon/fundies but not necessarily even more gun ownership restrictions.

Maybe what we should do instead is put the responsibility for gun ownership right where it belongs - with the gun owner - by passing a law that any crime committed with a gun carries an automatic 10 year prison sentence with a $1 million fine, and if someone is hurt or killed that prison sentence automatically jumps to 30 years with a $40 million fine. That would come before all the other charges that could be brought like robbery, assault, on and on. Hit a person's life and wallet and people wake up.

If we want to get serious about controlling the use of guns then let's get serious - otherwise let's play around some more.

[-..__...]

14. Define "tight gun controls and safety".

I agree with background checks and licensing for CCW.
Anthying more than that, I would probably not support.

[realisticphish]

16. same here

past that, and it gets a little grey for me. But I like the general idea

[rpgamerd00d]

19. Ban on all fully automatic weapons for one.

Adding safety regulations on storage of weapons and ammo.
Shutting down loopholes that allow felons to get guns.

Things like that.

[benEzra]

Er, that was done 72 YEARS ago...

Ban on all fully automatic weapons for one.

Er, that was done 72 YEARS ago, under the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934. Familiar with it?

To own any automatic weapon, you have to pass what amounts to a Secret-level government security clearance. All such weapons manufactured after 1986 are restricted to police and military only by the McClure-Volkmer Act.

Adding safety regulations on storage of weapons and ammo.

Such as?

We keep our guns in a safe when not in use. But I would NOT accept any law that required me to always keep all guns unloaded AND locked up, since such a law would also outlaw self-defense, which happens to be the primary reason Americans own guns.

Shutting down loopholes that allow felons to get guns.

There's common ground to be found there, although such loopholes may be fewer than you might think.

[jody]

46. What benEzra said. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

17. Gunowners United for National Sanity (GUNS)

[mcscajun]

59. Sounds great!

I like it. :)

I'm a semi-sane gun owner. :)

Sane enough to own one, anyway. Not sayin' much more than that. Those who know me will tell you different. "She's Crazy!" :rofl:

[benEzra]

21. Some thoughts from a gun owner...

I think it might be helpful for those of you who aren't gunnies to understand where we gun owners are coming from. This essay may or may not be helpful, but here it is for anyone who's interested:

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?


FWIW, the gun-ban lobby has launched so many front groups over the years to stump for sweeping gun bans from a supposedly gun-owner perspective that ANY such crap will be quickly seen through. The gun banners started the American Rifle Association back in the 1970's (huge flop). An extreme anti-gun group (Stop Handgun Violence, of Massachusetts) started the American Hunters and Shooters Association a couple years ago, which is also a complete flop. Contrary to prohibitionist stereotyping, gun owners are NOT stupid rednecks, and are actually more likely to be college educated than the general population (because owning guns costs money, time, self-discipline, and knowledge of the law).


A more successful approach, IMO, would be to get the NRA to realize that the repubs are a sinking ship, and get them to do a better job reaching out to pro-gun Dems and indies. Between a quarter and a third of Dems and indies own guns, and the anti-gun lobby was founded by, and is headed by, Republicans. The gun prohibition lobby is currently one of the RNC's best assets, and has arguably handed the repubs the House, the Senate, and two Presidencies since 1994.

[davepc]

28. did you set up a DU Journal?

That post would be a good cornerstone for one.

[catnhatnh]

22. How about....

National Organization for Guns Under No (re)Strictions???Whoops-nevermind.

[diamondsndust]

24. R.A.G.E. ...................

Registered American Gun Enthusiasts ??.... :shrug:

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

26. www.gunsanity.com

National Gun Sanity
Pro responsible gun ownership
Anti assault weapons, cop killer bullets, etc.

[benEzra]

29. Why ban protruding handgrips on rifles?

Anti assault weapons

All rifles combined account for less than 3% of homicides in the U.S. annually. Banning civilian rifles with handgrips that stick out (aka "assault weapons") makes absolutely no rational sense. Check out the 2004 FBI Uniform Crime Reports; scroll down the "Rifles" column in this table: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/offense_tabulations/table_20-22.html

BTW, you know that military automatic weapons are already restricted by Federal law and have been for 72 years, yes?

cop killer bullets

Banned in 1986, by a law the NRA helped write.

Legislative history here.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

35. Modify the assault rifle ban then

I'm not in favor of allowing somebody access to an AR-15 that can be made fully auto with a $20 modification kit. That and clip size are my problems with assault rifles. I don't the need for them for anything, other than killing people in large quantities.

Regarding cop-killer bullets, legalizing them keeps coming up for some reason. Maybe this is a red-herring.

Yes, I know that military automatic weapons are banned.

[benEzra]

43. That was done in 1986...

I'm not in favor of allowing somebody access to an AR-15 that can be made fully auto with a $20 modification kit.

Early AR-15's could be converted via a NFA-restricted kit (auto sear and whatnot) since IIRC the receiver dimensions were the same as the M16. The McClure-Volkmer Act of 1986 stiffened the convertability requirements for all firearms, and all post-'86 AR's are as difficult to convert to full auto as any other civilian self-loading firearm. Under the National Firearms Act as amended in '86, any civilian firearm that is easily converted to a machinegun IS a machinegun, even if not actually converted.

That and clip size are my problems with assault rifles. I don't the need for them for anything, other than killing people in large quantities.

30 rounds is a reasonable capacity for a civilian rifle, and has been considered so for 60 to 100 years. An AR-15 is no different than an M1 carbine in that respect.

As far as their purpose being to "kill people in large quantities," I should point out that AR-15 pattern rifles are THE most popular civilian target rifle in the United States, bar none. They are very accurate and a lot gentler to shoot than full-power rifles are, and the ergonomics are vastly superior to old-fashioned straight stocks. They also make a good home-defense gun in lieu of a pistol or shotgun (less wall penetration than a pistol, way less recoil than a shotgun).

Here's an AR in the hands of a competition shooter, on the cover of a book on American civilian gun ownership:
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0195150511.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I don't own one myself yet, but that's only because we have medical bills out the wazoo--my 7 y.o. son is a cardiac kid, and we've spent maybe $50K out of pocket so far in copays/deductibles/non-covered services. So no $1500 rifles for me in the near future. I do own a civvie AK-47 lookalike, though ($379) and it's my main target/recreational rifle. Not as accurate as an AR-15, but my local range only goes up to 200 yards, so it's adequate, and I can hunt with it should I ever take up that pastime, I suppose.

Regarding cop-killer bullets, legalizing them keeps coming up for some reason. Maybe this is a red-herring.

The last few years, the prohibitionists have been trying to resurrect the term to refer to rifle caliber ammunition. They'd like to give the Attorney General the power to ban any caliber of ammunition they deem "nonsporting," which would allow them to (hypothetically) ban .223 or 7.62x39mm ammunition at whim. Since pretty much any centerfire rifle caliber on this planet will penetrate NIJ Level II or IIIA body armor, rifle ammo in nonhunting calibers constitutes "cop-killer bullets."

FWIW, .223, 7.62x39mm, and 7.62x51mm/.308 Winchester are already covered by the construction-based 1986 statute prohibiting armor-piercing handgun ammunition; these calibers are considered handgun calibers for the purposes of that law. .30-06 and up aren't covered by that statute, since even without AP a .30-06 will drill through Level III hardplate body armor, and even with milsurp AP a .30-06 won't penetrate Level IV.

[-..__...]

36. Count me out.

"Anti assault weapons"???? Fuggedaboutit.

I personally own 5 of what you call "assault weapons" (along with roughly 50 "hi-capacity banana clips").

Never used in a crime or in malice. I keep them locked up. Take them to the range regularly.

"Cop killer bullets"? Ah yes... the mythical teflon coated Black Talons that will slice through a kevlar vest like a hot knife through butter.

Steel core AP ammo for handguns has been illegal for civilian possession for some time now. Even most steel core AP rifle ammo is banned.

The way some anti-gun people would define it, just about every rifle caliber would be banned because it's easily capable of penetrating a kevlar vest.

[Paladin]

55. "MYTHICAL" MY ASS

You describe Cop Killer Bullets as being "mythical," and yet your fellow gun activist, BenEzra, contradicts you in this same thread.

In his posts nos. 20 and 29, BenEzra, ever ready to say something nice about the NRA, makes note of "Kevlar-piercing handgun ammunition" and states that "cop killer bullets" were banned in 1986.

Doesn't sound very "mythical" to me. Get your fucking stories straight......

[-..__...]

63. Reading comprehension 101.

What contradiction?

I clearly posted "Steel core AP ammo for handguns has been illegal for civilian possession for some time now. Even most steel core AP rifle ammo is banned".

Looking at my calender, it's 2006... not 1986.

Perhaps you were confused by my sarcastic jab at the gun-grabbing sob sisters and hand wringers who keep on perpetuating this "cop killer" bullet thing?

Apparently you're unaware of the whole teflon coated, Black Talon hysteria? It was a joke then (meaning laughable), and it still is.

They used to drone on about it (only the uniformed/ignorant still carry on about it), as if it had some certain magical ability to kill a police officer that standard FMJ doesn't. And let's be honest here... each and every bullet (regardless of it's composition), can be a "cop killer"; vest or no vest.

They picked a scary frightening label to get the medias and LEO organizations attention.

Fact is, while steel or beryllium core ammo can penetrate kevlar vests, the Teflon coating had nothing to do with it. Hard metal bullets will chew up the bore of any firearm. To solve this problem, a Teflon coating or layer was applied to the bullets to ease the wear and tear. Somehow, somewhere, some brainiac started the Teflon coated cop killer bullet myth and it caught on.

Then there's the "Black Talon" scare :scared: (hell, it even has a scary name). Anti-gun legend has it that these magic bullets expanded and opened up like little tiny buzz-saws, cutting, slicing and dicing through the intended victims torso.

Point is, there's this belief that these "cop killer" bullets exist and can be bought at every gun show and gun shop in America with nary an eyebrow raised.

[ManiacJoe]

73. Mythical is correct, short of

someone producing actual evidence of them. The 1986 ban prohibited the manufacture and sales to civilians. What it does not say is that prior to then, no one was manufacturing the stuff for civilian sales any way. There are a few companies that do manufacture special batches for government agencies, then and now.

[derby378]

42. Survey says? *BUUUUZZZZ*

Thanks for playing...

Any group that starts talking about banning or confiscating weapons is going to face an uphill climb in today's Democratic Party. Been there, done that, learning from our mistakes.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

62. Civilians don't need weapons with that kind of killing power

eom

[derby378]

75. It's the Bill of RIGHTS, not a Bill of NEEDS

When you put yourself in the position of deciding what American citizens need and what they don't need, that's very dangerous ground to tread on.

We Democrats need to pull together if we're gonna end the Republican dominance of Congress in November.

[benEzra]

76. What kind of "killing power"?

Civilians don't need weapons with that kind of killing power

The term "assault weapon" is generally defined by the shape of a rifle's stock, not by "killing power." If a self-loading shotgun has a handgrip that sticks out, it's an "assault weapon." If it holds more than 5 shells, it is an "assault weapon." If a handgun has a 12-round magazine, it could be considered an "assault weapon"...



You know the AR-15 is the LEAST powerful of all common centerfire rifles, yes? I'd challenge you to compare the "killing power" of a .729 caliber (12 gauge) shotgun to that of a .223 caliber rifle...

Some raw energy figures, for your enjoyment (from your resident Gungeon physics geek):

.Uzi lookalike (9x19mm)...................450 ft-lb
.AR-15..................................1,275 ft-lb
.AK-47 lookalike (7.62x39mm)............1,495 ft-lb
.30-06 deer hunting rifle...............2,900 ft-lb
.375 big-game hunting rifle (.375H&H)...4,230 ft-lb
.577 big-game hunting rifle (.577NE)....7,000 ft-lb



BTW, here are some "assault weapons" as defined by New Jersey state law, and S.1431/H.R.2038 (proposed "assault weapons ban" that helped cost the Kerry/Edwards ticket the 2004 election):


preban Marlin Model 60 squirrel hunting rifle



Benelli turkey hunting shotgun



Hammerli international target competition pistol




You are aware that the "assault weapon" issue is about civilian (NFA Title 1) guns with nontraditional styling or over-10-round magazines, not military automatic weapons, yes?




The "assault weapon" bait-and-switch is THE biggest albatross around the party's neck on the gun issue since the mid-1990's. If you are looking to create a viable, less-repub alternative to the NRA, creating an organization to stump for bans on rifle stocks with handgrips that stick out just isn't going to work...

[eallen]

30. I'll join. But let's be careful about the politics.

Other than the basics, there will be endless bickering over what laws are reasonable. You don't want to make that a barrier to membership. There was a time, three or four decades past, when the NRA was not so political. Or maybe it was, and I didn't so much notice it. Don't know. Anyway, I think the emphasis should be more on providing an alternative to the NRA, for gunowners who are not wingnuts. There are all sorts of ways to spin that, but the bottom line is that owning a gun doesn't mean you line up politically behind Charlton Heston.

Maybe we should call it "Warm Live Hands."

:hippie:

[Kolesar]

31. Liberals for Armed Revolution

:evilgrin:

[katinmn]

37. Here! Here!

:toast:

[Kolesar]

38. I'm feeling a little frustrated, y'all understand

:beer:

[katinmn]

40. Not alone.

:beer:

[stepnw1f]

32. Good Idea (nt)

[Lisa0825]

33. Responsible Gun Owners of America - RGOA

I think it is a great idea!

[Odin2005]

41. Thats a good name.

Both me and my stepdad hunt. He's as liberal as they come and hates how the NRA has become a front of the RNC.

The democratic party just needs to drop the gun issue, I personally am for the REGULATION of firearms, but no matter how the party spins it the RW propaganda machine will spin it as "They're going to take away your guns." I Know many people who vote for the pukes even though they a very left-wing on economic issues becaise of guns. I'm sick the anti-gun people in the cities think all us rural people are trigger-happy troglodytes.

[mwooldri]

48. What have you got against the National Restaurant Association?

Here's a few silly ones - well you decide if they're silly...

There's others:

Gun Owners Organization (G.O.O.)
Firing Is Really Easy (F.I.R.E.)
Black Americans Need Guns (B.A.N.G.)
Uruaguay Firearms Organization (U.F.O.)
American Association of Rifle Producers (A.A.R.P.)
American Arms Assication (A.A.A.)
National Shotgun Association (N.S.A)
Fire Arms of America (F.A.A.)
Firearms Department of New York (F.D.N.Y)
Latin American Pistol Division (L.A.P.D)
Gun Rights Advocates of North Dakota. (G.R.A.N.D.)
National Association of Rifle Owners (N.A.R.O.)

Ok, lunch break is over... and my brain is fried. Mark.

[doc03]

51. I brought this up myself about a year ago and

still think it is a great idea. I like the title in #33 (RGOA) Responsible Gun Owners of America.

[blondeatlast]

56. This is essential--the NRA was hijacked way too long ago. nt

[solinvictus]

60. I agree...

The NRA won't support anyone outside of the Republican Party, so they get none of my $$ anymore. I give to GOA sometimes, but I'd really rather see an organization similar to the ACLU concerned with the rights of all legal gun owners. The NRA is far too selective in its actions, particularly with the cave in during the 1994 AWB.

[SammyWinstonJack]

64. Why do we need guns? Seriously?

[LuCifer]

66. One word: REPUBLICANS!

How about we call it The Left Wing Radical Milita!??!?!?!?!

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. Well I don't want to shoot them, I just want them to go away.

[MrBenchley]

67. To compensate for shortcomings (snicker)

[SammyWinstonJack]

68. Guess that is why I don't have guns.

:shrug:

[MrBenchley]

71. Never underestimate the triggerhappy as a source of inadvertant humor....

And yes, that's a real product for gun, er, lovers.....

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. Crap! That is funny!

:spray:

[NuttyFluffers]

74. dig AGRO or GUNS acronym. but who's gonna save my blowguns?

blowguns, mancatchers, chain whips, spears, tranq guns, etc. several of that stuff isn't allowed in quite a few states. in fact, tranq gun games should become as popular as paint ball games! ahh, that'd be loads of fun...