"By my hand alone almost 200 were taken out, that's just a rough estimate"

[LibertyorDeath]

Army Ranger Jessie Macbeth speaks about War Crimes he and other Rangers committed in Iraq with the encouragement and blessing
of their superiors.

http://www.peacefilms.org /



Article here

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/informational...

Thanks to DUer Barrett808 for this original thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[IndyOp]

1. MacBeth stutters through the whole video --

Below is a rough paraphrase of what he said - I just typed fast while he talked. I missed a lot and probably typed some things wrong. Most of what I have here, MacBeth said...

I got sh-sh-shipped off to Oson. Once I got there (Baghdad) the whole aspect of the country changed. Our job over there is to strike fear in the heart of Iraqis. Do whatever it takes to make them fear you. T-t-t-o be brutal. We have our own purpose. We aren't there for them. The Geneva Convention ain't nothing but crap. I thought we were going over the liberate the people. Operation Iraqi Freedom - it was more like Operation Iraqi Slaughter. Most of them were families hiding down there but we were told Saddam's forces were down there, a lot of them were dead, but a lot of them weren't dead. Smell of burnt flesh, people crying. They thought we were there for them. Seeing people lying around and rotting. S-s-s-some of them that weren't wounded very bad, we had to kill them. After witnessing that it changed me. I feel like I lost a lot of myself. W-w-we would go in, there would be an average of 5-6 people that were hurt just a little bit, they avoided the main blast because they hid behind something, a lot of time they knew there weren't insurgents in there, I think they said that to make it look like we were doing the right thing. The insurgents did a lot of jacked-up stuff to the American soldiers. People have a right to fight for their families. I don't blame them. I would do the same thing. By not speaking out I feel like I am betraying all my boys that died. We would do night raids, we would have them on their knees, if the man of the house did not answer we would shoot the youngest kid in the head. An average joe, trying to support his family. We would start killing off his family until he told us something. I didn't feel anything. I just wanted to do my job. I had to make myself hate them in order to do my job. I had to make myself not think of them as people, think of them as a target, so I could complete my job. I didn't keep counted, b-b-b-y my hand alone there were probably over 200 people taken out - that is a rough estimate.

On edit: The rest of the really, really rough 'transcript' is here:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >

[1620rock]

2. So much for all that 'support the troops' bullshit. eom

[LibertyorDeath]

5. He's got the courage to speak out. To implicate himself in War Crimes

I can support this Ranger and any others that have the courage of their convictions to speak out about the atrocities they were encouraged or ordered to commit by superior officers.

At the same time I am completely revolted by what he and others did
to innocent Iraqi civilians.

[IndyOp]

6. I don't support the troop's actions, but I do wish them peace and health.

I want all troops to put down their weapons. Now and forever.

I want romanticization of the military to end.

I want American's belief that they need protection from the world to end.

I want an end to all of the media and computer game bullshit that portrays killing as the highest moral action one can take in this world: At the end of the show the good guys kill the bad guys. At the end of the show the good guys kill. Good guys kill. Good guys kill.

I want an end to the policies that give our lower socioeconomic young adults piss poor options and allow the military to build lavish "Career Centers" that bring 'em in in droves.

I want an end to an American Public that is willing to cheer for soldiers going to war like they cheer for a football team.

I want an end to politicians who cannot tell the truth about war - it is all about which rich fat white bastard gets the $$$.

Many of the troops join out of misguided patriotism or personal desperation and they are destroyed as they are made to destroy. They suffer far more than I ever will.

I don't support the troop's actions. I want them to all stop fighting now and forever.

On edit: My cousin Mac served as a Green Beret in Vietnam. He was a surgeon who was on the front lines. He saw and did everything. We lost him. After he returned home he could not go on. He was destroyed by what he did. He joined for the right reasons - he believed the lies about freedom and liberty and democracy being in danger from the communism. He acted to care for patients and protect his buddies and he contributed to the conduct of war crimes by serving. This is a nightmare for all.

[LibertyorDeath]

11. Thanks for sharing this IndyOp

"My cousin Mac served as a Green Beret in Vietnam. He was a surgeon who was on the front lines. He saw and did everything. We lost him. After he returned home he could not go on. He was destroyed by what he did. He joined for the right reasons - he believed the lies about freedom and liberty and democracy being in danger from the communism. He acted to care for patients and protect his buddies and he contributed to the conduct of war crimes by serving. This is a nightmare for all."

[grytpype]

223. IT'S A FAKE!!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"He is wearing his beret on backwards. I doubt he is even who he says he is.

It's a shame that crap like this gets posted on DU. Giving credibility to these kinds of lies demeans the whole site."

"First thing I noticed that the Chevrons on his camo jacket are Marine issue. The Army sews on green patches, Marines use metal pins."

[gully]

226. His beret is NOT on backwards.

You can't see his "chevrons" in the video.

[grytpype]

227. From the "Peacefilms" guestbook

Mother Fu**ng LIES!

I hope all of you read what I have to say about this. First, I speak to you, of Ogrish, as a combat veteran myself. I spent 6 years in the army as an Airborne Ranger stationed with an Infantry bgd at the 82nd, and with the 101st LRS Detatchment. This is the most disgusting piece of propaganda footage I have yet to see about the war in Iraq. While there *ARE* instances of deliberate abuse, killing and even torture of Iraqi non combatants, this particular interview is completely staged. Here are my conclusions...
First of all, in the beginning of the picture, the patch the supposed "Ranger" is wearing can be clearly seen on the right shoulder. A US Army soldiers right arm indicates a combat patch. You dont get one unless you've spent 6 months in a designated combat area. That's fine, except, he is wearing a Special Forces "Group" patch. I only know one ranger Unit that is authorized to wear that patch and they were deployed to Afganistan with 5th group. Also, he has two "tabs" sewn above the right arm patch. This is incorrect. An "Airborne" tab should be sewn above it, but nothing else. I assume the second patch is either the "Special Forces" tab, or his supposed "Ranger" tab. Bull s***. It doesn't go there. Also, notice his rank... Two stripes, Corporal (E-4). Thiese are pinned on. Most Units standards will state that rank is to be SEWN ON. Not pinned. Certainly, a ranger unit would uphold this standard. That's WRONG. Next, take a look at his military photo. The wall photo is similar to the ones you will find of any soldier who goes to the E-5 board for promotion. It is required that they have a "Soldier's Photo" taken for their packet. The standard is either BDU's, or Class-A's. He is shown wearing BDU's. His "Ranger" tab should be sewn above his unit patch. It's not there... Next, notice that above his name tag, there is NOTHING sewn on the uniform. Almost 99.9% of Rangers are airborne qualified. It's par for the course. I've NEVER met a L.E.G. (Low Energy Ground) Ranger. This is usually completed before attending ranger school- except for very rare circumstances. Any airborne soldier would proudly display their Jump Wings. Where are they??? Next, no god damned Unit Crest is placed in the center of the patch in his berrett. Finally, his sleeves are rolled up. For most infantry units, this is not allowed. Support units (and some combat units) will roll up their sleeves in warm weather while in garrison- However, Infantry soldiers are usually not permitted to do so because it is NON-TACTICAL for their job duty. "We train like we fight- And we dont ever fight with our sleeves up." Also, they are rolled improperly. The US Marines roll their sleeve like the liars piture. The US Army rolls up their sleeves but then folds the cuff area over the lighter portion of the sleeve to keep the uniform's camof**e pattern continuous. That's wrong. Here's an abbreviated list of discrepencies...

1. Special Forces Combat Patch (Wrong)
2. Two "Tabs" sewn above SF patch (Wrong- Only One)
3. No Ranger Tab
4. No Airborne Wings
5. No Unit Crest
6. No Sewn on Rank
7. No One in the Army rolls their sleeves like that.
Bonus: 8. Mustache is out of regulation by extending past the corner of the mouth.

You don't take a picture like that- with your uniform looking like you got it from some steven segal movie set. Its disrespectful, and an Army ranger would be upholding those standards.

I don't care what the j*** says... He is completely uncredible.

[grytpype]

228. Another comment from a real soldier

I am completely against the war in Iraq. Completely. I followed the link to this video in hopes of seeing a soldier speak out against the war in a manner that would inspire others to do the same. Aside from the lack of dates, places and names, I found a few other oddities that I think bear consideration in interpreting this veteran’s interview.

I read through all of the posts after viewing the video. As I found the second post on the matters concerning military dress interesting, I went back and replayed the first part that shows the wall picture.

As a former soldier myself (medic, 91B), I can assure you that no one in the Army rolls their sleeves that way. Absolutely no one. It's no big deal that they're rolled while he's giving the interview, but they are again rolled in the photo on the wall showed at the beginning of the video. There is just no way that could be an acceptable Soldier's Photo. He'd have been called out of regulation in a heartbeat, and those pictures are not taken until the photographer decides the soldier is 'dress right dress.' Or at least that’s what I’ve experienced. You see, in the Army and Airforce we all roll our sleeves so that the inside of the BDU's (battle dress uniform) are not shown. The reasoning is that in any situation, a soldier can yank the cuffs down in one movement. Only Marines and Sailors roll their sleeves in the manner displayed in the wall picture. (And sleeves are never rolled in a combat situation. When I served at Yongsan Garrison's military hospital in Korea, we were not exactly at war but it was still considered a combat theatre-so even in the boiling hot of summer, we weren't allowed to roll our sleeves. And when I worked in Germany after 9-11, the post commander didn’t allow anyone to roll their sleeves because the military was in a combat situation. And I've never seen a battle-ready ranger with rolled sleeves at any time).

Also, all enlisted have a metal unit insignia on their berets, and all officers wear their rank on their berets. This young man has no unit crest on his beret in that photo, which is auspiciously out of regulation. Most important to me is that active members of groups like rangers, pathfinders, snipers and airborne (etc) have khaki patches sewn on to the fronts of their BDU's to identify their specialty. The picture of the young man showed no such patches. And his corporal rank was pin-on. That would never fly in a Soldier's Photo. And yes, his mustache is out of regulation. Though I doubt that would ever get past a ranger's platoon leader much less his 1SG, it would certainly not be allowed in a Soldier's Photo.

Even assuming that the photo shown was taken after he got out of the military, I still have trouble with the sleeve rolling. I can explain away the lack of unit crest, desert BDU’s (issued only to the forces in Iraq) and patches by assuming he threw his uniforms and stuff away when he got out. But even in those circumstances, I wouldn't even think to roll my own sleeves in that way. The Army manner of sleeve-rolling looks much more impressive, is much more versatile and is, well, an integral part of military dress. Assuming he had thrown his old uniforms away, but then went through the trouble of purchasing a new uniform for a photo-op or for family memorabilia (and those ranger berets aren’t easy to come by)- well, it just doesn’t make sense in that context to then put the uniform on incorrectly.

I’m having trouble reconciling myself to the possibility that this interview could be posturing to serve the anti-war movement- and I don’t know whether to hope that I’m right or hope that I’m wrong. To me, the end never justifies the means on any side. We just need more information on this one.

[gully]

231. Under the photo is "Iraq Veterans Against The War" I'm thinking

that the photo in question was taken by THEM?

[Recursion]

251. Marines don't roll sleeves like that either

That's too low and too loose. I agree with you; even if he was deliberately disrespecting the uniform:

A) I think force of habit would make rolling sleeves in a non-standard way unlikely,
B) Woodland camouflague is suspicious
C) Old-style (non-digital) camouflague is pretty suspicious too. The Corps has had the digis since '02 and the Army went in, what, '04?

[gully]

230. I'm not sure what picture this angry person is debunking, but it

is not the picture in the video that I watched. His beret is "fine" and medals can't be seen as it's a head shot. Further he has some medals pinned to the outside of his picture frame and his moustache was shaven.

The beret is on in the same position as Tillmans was in his enlistment photo. This MIGHT be propaganda, but those who are debunking it apparently have not watched the video?

[misternormal]

236. I have never seen a beret in the Army over the left ear...

... It is clearly backward...

[gully]

248. "backward" I was thinking backward as in backward baseball hat.

Not, over one eye vs. the other.

[misternormal]

249. I can not speak for a ranger... but...

After spending time around them, I think they would rather have their balls flattened with a rubber mallet, (And we can only imagine how much that would hurt), than to be seen, much less have a photo taken improperly wearing their beret...

Just My opinion...

[grytpype]

237. No, his beret is not fine.

Look at these:

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe...

and this:



And now look at this and tell me his beret is fine:



His uniform is not remotely correct.

It's a fake.

[gully]

247. As I said, I believe the picture on the wall may have been taken

by Iraq Vets Against the War? But, having his patch over the right eye is not "backwards" which is what I was responding to. It may not be "army proper" but it's not a reason to dismiss every thing this man says.

However, times have changed and perhaps wearing it over the right eye is a sign of protest?



I'm not gullible for giving a guy who wears his beret "differently" the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe nor disbelieve him.

[Recursion]

254. Still doesn't explain the sleeves

Why would a Ranger roll his sleeves like a Marine?

Seriously, little shit like that gets pounded into your head every day you're in the military.

[gully]

255. Not sure if he rolled them or if they are the new issue uniforms I posted

in a pic below.

The army pic in the video does not look "legit" as in taken by the army, but he had a banner below it that said "Iraq Vets Against The War ..." and I wondered if they take photos or took it for him?

I'm not defending him as truthful or not, but I think there was truth to what he said about the experience in Iraq.

[file83]

257. gully, go to ivaw.net and look at their photos...the only photo of a

protesting veteran with a beret on is wearing it downwards to the right, the correct way. Still no evidence that wearing it downward to the left is a "sign of protest" as you have suggested (made up).

This guy: http://www.ivaw.net/index.php?id=180

And the third photo down on this link: http://www.ivaw.net/index.php?id=167

[gully]

258. I admit to wild speculation. However I understand it's not uncommon to

wear ones beret "wrong" regardless.



http://dakev.com/myblog/2003/05/Biography.html

Actually yes, the beret is over the wrong eye.

Upon arrival to my first duty station, I was issued a beret, along with a ton of other stuff. Up until that point I had always worn my soft cap. Nobody told me which eye it was supposed to go over, I just assumed, wrongly, it went over my right eye.

I wore it incorrectly for months until Master Sergeant Tyler caught it and corrected me.

I've done worse things.

Like saluting indoors. I was not told until recently that was a no-no. They just saluted back... so I didn't know I was wrong.

Also, in France the beret is worn downward over the left so a protest in this manner makes a bit of sense.



And, most importantly read this "proper wear of the beret" see specifically "COMMON MISTAKES" - the swiveled beret. Note the word common and the pictures that follow.

http://afsf.lackland.af.mil/Policy/Beret_wear.pdf

Flash not over left eye, swiveled to the left side of your head. The opposite is the Target Beret; swiveled to the right, a flash in the middle of your forehead gives sniper a great place to put cross hairs

I'm not ready to dismiss what he said because his beret was not on "right." I'm not vouching for him either, but I'm certainly not going to call him a liar because his hat was on funny.

[file83]

252. gully, show us one picture, just one picture of another Army Ranger with

his beret sloping downward to his left. Berets are ALWAYS worn sloping downwards towards their right.

If you can prove that wearing the beret downward to his left is CORRECT or even ACCEPTABLE, then maybe we'll believe you that "His beret is fine". Until then, you are dead wrong on that point.

[gully]

256. I may be. When I said "fine" I was saying it's not "backward."

I'm not going to argue that his uniform is correct or not as I have no knowledge, but I'm not dismissing everything he says based upon the uniform alone.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

276. I'll argue that the image is reversed in technical terms

SIMPLY HOLD A SIGN UP TO A MIRROR TO SEE WHAT I MEAN. THAT PHENOMENON CAUSES THE VIDEO INVERSION ISSUES. Some cameras compensate for image inversion but fail when it's a picture of a picture as in the video.

Windows platform media players typically use a system known as DirectShow to decode video files. As part of this system special filters can be installed, in order to handle additional video formats or add effects during decoding, for example. Unfortunately some filters can have undesired effects, such as inverting the video or commandeering DivX decoding from the genuine DivX decoder.

Upside down or mirrored video is commonly caused by these filters:

* Bicubic resize filter
Filename: bicubic_resizer.ax
Installed as part of many codec packs, this filter is perhaps most responsible for inverted video.

* G400 filter
Filename: divxg400.ax
Also installed as part of many codec packs, this filter can also invert the video.

* XviD filter
Filename: xvid.ax
Again, installed as part of many codec packs, the XviD filter can decode DivX video as inverted.

more info at: http://forums.divx.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/441101651 ...

this guy's LACK of being an effective speaker makes it more believable because if it was a lie, they'd have hired a better speaker.

[StellaBlue]

22. AMEN!

This is the great taboo, IMHO. Must be talked about. Where's the line between the 'Support the Troops' rhetoric and the fact that the GESTAPO were made up of REGULAR PEOPLE??? Deserves to be talked about, openly.

"What if they threw a war, and nobody came?"

[Nostradammit]

67. I want what you want, IndyOp -

This is a nightmare for all and a lot of people are not prepared for what happens when these soldiers finally come home. America is about to get a real good look in the mirror.

[driver8]

68. IndyOp, that is a great post. I agree with you 100%. I am sick of

this false bravado...this John Wayne heroism bullshit.

It is time this country learned the truth about what exactly is going on over there...that our troops are being maimed and killed and are killing for a bunch of lies; lies that make a few people very, very rich.

Bush and his cronies are criminals pure and simple. They are using the men and women of our military to do the work they won't do themselves.

[watrwefitinfor]

75. Winning Hearts & Minds

In Iraq, as in Vietnam.

Wat

[al bupp]

88. Joining in the chorus in praise of IndyOp /nt

[BeFree]

96. A nightmare, indeed

The stupidest thing humans ever invented, this war business.

Imagine if the defense budget was around just $100B,,, we could not have even thought about invading Iraq.

But with $400B + it became inevitable that the war junkies would act.

[motocicleta]

110. Bravo.

"I want all troops to put down their weapons. Now and forever.

I want romanticization of the military to end.

I want American's belief that they need protection from the world to end."

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

Kill your TV!

[Pacifist Patriot]

181. Amen

[Tom Joad]

8. Indy, bless you for the transcript,

First, cannot even access the video now, probably due to high demand. Second, there should be a transript anyway.

This is why so many are coming back with ptsd. What is the most difficult thing for a soldier to bear? Being shot at? No. (though that certainly causes high stress)
It is far more difficult to go against everything one is taught, a very basic instinct really, to not kill, maim, other humans.

[IndyOp]

9. The rest of what I typed from what MacBeth said is here:

It gets worse...

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >

[maveric]

17. Perhaps he's a stutterer?

Or maybe the trauma of war makes him do so?

[grytpype]

78. I don't recall any reports like this in the foreign media.

This would have been picked up in the foreign media if it was happening.

So take this with a big grain of salt, people.

[jaxx]

3. Makes me sick that this adm is behind this cruelty.

No wonder so many are coming back from Iraq with messed up minds. This is awful.

[RagAss]

4. This needs to be verified and then verified again....

...if it's true...well.....let's not even think about that yet....verification is the first thing to address.

[IndyOp]

7. He is presented as a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War -

I respect the group. If he is an IVAW member then I think he must be real - he couldn't pull the wool over fellow vets' eyes, I would not think.

[LibertyorDeath]

10. Hopefully Dahr Jamail can

(I emailed Dahr Jamail Iraq Team)

http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog /


When the invasion began, Jamail, a fourth-generation Lebanese American who grew up in Houston, decided he could sit at home, depressed and angry, or he could take action. He bought a laptop computer, a digital camera, and a plane ticket.

In Iraq for eight months between November 2003 and February 2005, Jamail reported “collateral damage” far beyond what the military or embedded journalists acknowledged. He wrote of soldiers shooting people in prayer at a Baghdad mosque. He relayed accounts of civilians in Fallujah with extraordinary burns (later revealed to be caused by white phosphorus) and of men and women who bore white flags being shot in the Euphrates River as they tried to swim to safety. Jamail also watched those profiting from the war, reporting examples of blurred lines between the military and corporations operating in Iraq, as well as Bechtel’s failure to restore potable water after being paid hundreds of millions to do so.

Unrelated sources corroborated the stories Jamail heard. “So either it’s a city-wide, conspiratorial lie, or it’s the truth,” he says. Acknowledging his reliance on interpreters, Jamail says, “I trust them. They put their lives on the line to even be seen with me, in an effort to get the truth out.”

After starting with a homemade press pass and no outlet but e-mail, Jamail created a web site, dahrjamailiraq.com, and began writing for the Inter Press Service, The Asia Times, and The Nation, among others. He also reports for Democracy Now! and the BBC. At the culminating session of the World Tribunal on Iraq in June 2005, he documented U.S. violations of Fourth Geneva Convention provisions for health care in occupied countries.

http://www.americanswhotellthetruth.org/pgs/portraits/D...

[RagAss]

158. kick for the truth

[Jeffersons Ghost]

309. and a kick for spite

[karlrschneider]

12. I watched about 1 minute of this and have to wonder about the standards

the "Army Rangers" have (or did recently)...this guy is a blithering idiot.
He may be speaking truth but ... what a sorry-ass excuse for a spokesman.

[EnfantTerrible]

13. Because he has a stammer?

Because he stammers he's an idiot? That's just an ignorant and idiotic statement.

[kittenwithmittens]

108. Chimpy stammers and he's an idiot.

Just sayin'

[Earth_First]

16. Ever been in a combat zone?

I assure you that recounting such an experience would have me struggling to maintain composure and clear thoughts...

[LibertyorDeath]

23. He's not a spokesman for anything except his own experiences in Iraq

and how that has changed his perception of War and the Military.

If you shut it of after 1 minute that says a whole lot.

[peacetheonlyway]

28. rough call

on the one hand, I've heard of converted Austrian soldiers being forced to fight with the SS soldiers getting their battalions lost and doing other things to avoid their orders so as to not lose lives fighting, and this level of resistance without getting yourself in trouble represent ways soldiers can resist without causing personal court martial activity..

AND, how this man managed to kill 200 is a little sad to me when inside he did not feel good about it, but I can understand the culture of killing in the military and the ways they punish you for not participating.Kevin Benderman got 15 months in the brig for doing 10 long years for the military and 2 tours of duty in Iraq, and still got 15 months for being a conscientious objector.

I totally respect this man for his courage and coming forth now...

his studdering is a verbal condition likely FROM BIRTH and has nothing to do with his testimony which I find to be accurate and from his heart... studderers often studder more when they get emotional about something... I suppose killing people against your will would make one emotional in the recounting of what must horrendous mental images... I very much pity this man and yet, I'm proud of his courage now.....

THIS MAN IS AN AMERICAN HERO... and while I wish he had the foresight to 'forget to carry out' some orders like killing the kids and women, I also think his speaking up now jeopardizes his life and marks him for death by the psychos at the top.....

rough call, but to call him an idiot is not warranted.. his sentences were articulate and his story was genuine. This man is no idiot.. and you my friend, owe him an apology for having to endure an unfair war...

it only made me feel that EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE WAR are victims... the iraqis are victims, the soldiers are victims, the american populace left with a 9 trillion dollar deficit are victims.. world governments depending on a strong US economy are victims.. this whole thing is a crock of shit and needs to stop immediately..


PEACE THE ONLY WAY!!! peace now... peace to my brother MacBeth.. peace man.. you are a courageous american hero despite your awful deeds.....

[rman]

79. As though Army Rangers would officially speak out on such matters.

LOL

[hiley]

84. "sorry-ass"

Name calling wow! karlschneider you actually shocked me with this one.

[Lars39]

86. People sometimes stutter with PTSD.

[in_cog_ni_to]

112. He's not a spokeman for the army. He's telling us what HE went through.

as horrid as it is.

[theboss]

282. I'm sure it was horrible...in his mind....

....where he made it all up.

[KansDem]

122. Oh, I don't know...being order to murder the youngest child in a family

...might make me stutter and stammer.

We would do night raids, we would have them on their knees, if the man of the house did not answer we would shoot the youngest kid in the head.

[Tace]

203. I Hope I'd Kill Myself First

[NanceGreggs]

14. Please keep this kicked!

P-L-E-A-S-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[northamericancitizen]

15. kicking for the Truth and the end of War. Now.

[NanceGreggs]

18. One good kick ...

... deserves another.

And I'm a night-owl, so I'm willing to do this all night long ...

[mortlefaucheur]

19. KICK!

Kickin' it

[LibertyorDeath]

26. Like the screen name mortlefaucheur LOL

Welcome to DU!

[LibertyorDeath]

21. Cheers Nance!

[peacetheonlyway]

32. kick this baby higher...

[fun n serious]

20. Kick

Please, if you have not seen the video. Please do.

[NanceGreggs]

24. 12:37 a.m. my time ...

... and still in a kickin' mood!

[northamericancitizen]

27. You're doing a good job Nance. I applaud your determination. eom

[NanceGreggs]

34. Just felt I had to reply to your ...

... ooops! I guess I just inadvertently kicked again, didn't I?

[Clarkie1]

40. You like kicking horseshit? n/t

[Hatalles]

25. Someone get this on YOUTUBE. Post a link. And we'll view/rate it up.

[peacetheonlyway]

29. kick again!

[Clarkie1]

31. I don't believe this guy. I'd verify before you kick. n/t

[davepc]

36. Verify this guy

Last thing anybody needs is another Micha Wright.

http://jimtreacher.com/ranger.htm

[peacetheonlyway]

38. I'll kick till my heart's content

let's say he's off in the # he killed.

let's even say he killed no one

let's say, the worst this man had to endure was the hot sun, in one fucking hot desert like shit hole.

then , assuming all this,

a. The Iraq war is still total bullshit
b. Soldiers and Ex-Soldiers alike need to stand up and speak out against the war
c. Citizens need to his all the soldiers speaking up like this guy
d. he's still 10 X more patriotic than me for sacrificing his time doing what he was FORCED to do per his military agremeent and for this I give him points... more points than I get sitting behind my stupid computer kicking stuff..... (well, ok I" make political documentaries.. but the point is about scale of personal sacrifice made by soldiers)....

and let the citizens decide for themselves if it's true or false...

as for me, I trust Macbeth 10000% percent more than Fox news... and we put fox news in MegaMillions of US households everday.....

my worry for accuracy from this boy is less buoyed than my understanding what he risks to merely speak before the camera....

the sheer courage of speaking about anything that is not RA RA RA KILL DEM TERARISTS is worth hearing and worth hearing by the American people uncensored...

and a few simple fonecalls to buddies he worked with can corroborate down to the finest details this guy's story...
i'm sure that will be forthcoming...

kicking like crazy.....

[Clarkie1]

41. So you want soldeirs to "speak up" by lies and exagerrations.

Yes, that will help tremendously.

[peacetheonlyway]

47. exaggerations

proper spelling, I believe..

woops, an accidental kick as well... my bad!

[The Stranger]

89. "Lies and Exaggerations?"

LIES AND EXAGGERATIONS?

Holy mindfuck, this malAdministration knows NOTHING but LIES AND EXAGGERATIONS, and you are trying to use that phrase when someone DARES SPEAK OUT?

[rman]

120. Troops are ordered to do worse than this - remember the tortures?

Abu Graib, Gitmo, illegal CIA prisons abroad.

So why do you think this guy exaggerates?

[DoYouEverWonder]

76. The reporter Dahr Jamail

is a very reliable source.

I've been following his reports since he put up his website. He wouldn't put this fellow's story out unless it was true. If you need verification go look at some of his photo galleries. There's plenty of verification there that we've committed atrocities.

[file83]

167. Dan Rather was reliable too. But even he got tricked into a set up.

Just sayin'... no one is perfect.

[DoYouEverWonder]

202. It think Dahr

is a little more street wise at this point in his life. Dan was too in his day, but his day had passed decades earlier.

[Common Sense Party]

205. I agree. Trust, but verify, verify, verify. Something about him

doesn't seem right.

What unit was he in? Did he ever apply for conscientious objector status? That doesn't even look like the proper way for a Ranger to wear a beret...but I'm not military.

I hope this story has been 100% vetted.

[Clarkie1]

30. Do we have any corroboration that this is authentic? I have some doubts.

I've never heard of the organization 'Pepperspray Productions" before, so I have to have some degree of suspicion until proven otherwise.

I don't believe this guy, and I hope I'm not proven wrong. Some of his accusations are unbelieveable. Also, he sounds coached to me.

[LibertyorDeath]

42. Pepperspray Productions

Pepperspray Productions is an independent video activist collective in Seattle. We bring you independent video from the front lines of the global battle against the corporate state. In addition to creating individual video pieces, we produce the activist video quarterly The Leader and the weekly public access TV show Indymedia Presents, currently showing on public access stations in the Seattle area, in St. Paul, Minnesota and Tuscon, Arizona. We also dub and distribute Indymedia Newsreal, a monthly compilation of short video pieces screened in IndyMedia Centers around the country and shown on Free Speech TV.

http://peppersp.server312.com /



Eyewitness in Iraq: Dahr Jamail, an Unembedded Report

A Pepperspray Production, 28 minutes

Dahr Jamail recognized that Americans were being misled about the US occupation of Iraq, so he went to Iraq to find the truth. After being unembedded in Iraq totaling over 8 months, he returned to the States to tell what he discovered. In this video Dahr Jamail speaks of the horrors of occupation, the use of illegal weapons by American forces, the rip-off of American taxpayers by Bechtel and other US corporations, the shabby and biased media coverage of the situation by US media, and of the resilient determination of the Iraqi people to be free from foreign occupation.

A portion of the price of this video goes to support Dahr in his ongoing efforts.

Testimonies From FallujaSee the preview! - Quicktime
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/multi_media/Dahr_Jamail_Previ...

See the preview! - Flash Video
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/multi_media/Dahr_Jamail_Previ...


http://dahrjamailiraq.com/multi_media/

[Clarkie1]

43. As I thought, Radical ideologues with no credibility who will lie to suit

their agenda, and get others to lie for them.

Thanks. This case is closed.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

70. where did you get your info...?

mighty strong accusations.

[Catrina]

73. Have you seen the torture pictures?

We have a Sec. of Def. who sits in on torture sessions. I too have spoken to Kevin Benderman's wife and to him. He went to jail rather than go back to Iraq to follow the kind of orders he was given, such as shooting children for throwing rocks. I don't think anyone has contradicted him.

Here's what's happening after these soldiers come home ~ this is not the first such story I've read about some of them committing suicide and murder ~ this is a particularly brutal murder:

Soldier convicted in wife’s death, mutilation
Machine gunner wounded in Iraq war sentenced to life in prison

FORT LEWIS, Wash. - A soldier was convicted Saturday of murdering and mutilating his teenage wife, a Fort Lewis spokesman said.

An Army jury found Spc. Brandon Bare, 20, of Wilkesboro, N.C., guilty of premeditated murder and two counts of indecent acts for chopping his wife to death with a meat cleaver and desecrating her corpse.

After a five-day court martial, the jury deliberated about four hours Friday night before reaching the verdict shortly after midnight, said Fort Lewis spokesman Joseph Piek.

........

His defense lawyer said he was an emotionally and physically damaged combat veteran, angry over his wife’s infidelity and the pending breakup of their marriage, who killed in a moment of rage.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12895003 /

This soldier's story (in the video) sounds believable when you remember all the other stories, which in the beginning we found too horrible to believe. There was the slaughter at the wedding party near the Syrian border, eg.


There's the admission now, after trying to deney it, about the slaughter of 15 family members last fall, including small children ~ and another similar incident earlier this year. And these are only the ones we hear about.

I remember the words of Gen. Miller to the troops after he went to Abu Ghraib from Guantanamo Bay ~ 'treat the Iraqis like dogs' he said ~ and I'm glad it has not been forgotten. These are cruel, evil people. They delight in the suffering of others ~ Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush ~ Ledeen who thinks the entire ME should be turned into a cauldron. Insane people have taken over this country. It happens occasionally in history. But it needs to end quickly and all of those responsible for this, have to be held accountable.

While most of this is kept from the American people, it is not a secret elsewhere ~ the image of this country is stained, maybe forever ~ to the rest of the world, looking on in horror, we are no different to any other cruel, evil colonial empire, slaughtering, torturing and pillaging in foreign nations. Bush is fooling no one with his ridiculous rhetoric about freedom and democracy. In fact those words are becoming hateful. I know I can't stand to hear them anymore, because I know what they mean ~ the citizens of Iran know their deadly meaning and will resist even more than the Iraqis any invasion by this cabal.

[rman]

82. The Radical Ideologues are in the WH, in case you haven't noticed.

Their policies create a radical reality, so people who speak out about it inevitably say radical things.

[Clarkie1]

216. The Radical ideologues are on the left and right, lies all. n/t

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[meganmonkey]

128. There is thing that has happened throughout history

It's called WAR.

During a war, horrible and unbelievable things happen.

The people 'winning' the war do a pretty good job hiding those things until later.

Well, it's getting pretty late already in this war.

In fact, a huge story just came out in the last few days about a massacre in Haditha. Committed by US soldiers against innocent civilians. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

You think that was an isolated event? You think Abu Ghraib was just a few bad apples?

Well you need to think again.

[leftchick]

188. there have been similar massacres since the beginning of the occupation

Fallujah being the largest with close to a thousand people killed. And they were not all "insurgents". Houses are routinely targeted by US air strikes in Ramadi. The full accounting of just how many have been slaughtered may never be known.

[High Plains]

142. Something is closed, but I'm not sure it's this case.

[mirandapriestly]

48. I live in Seattle

I'll try to see what I can find out tomorrow.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

62. You "have some doubts" ? no you don't, you called it bullshit

I just watched it, and I believe him. His mannorisms, his stutter is more pronounced when he talks about the things he did, the dis-connected thoughts... he's telling the truth.

[earth mom]

121. Yeah they said that bout John Kerry when he tried to talk about War Crimes

too. I guess in your view American soldiers can do no wrong? Give me a break.

The Iraq "WAR" is a TOTAL LIE from start to finish. I believe anyone with a set big enough to CONFESS to War Crimes that are MOST CERTAINLY going on there.

One more thing-Look at that guys eyes-there's ALL the proof anyone needs, right there.

[mike_c]

33. kicking in utter disgust at the crimes committed by the U.S. military....

[Clarkie1]

35. This is utter bullshit. I just listened to the whole thing.

The guy is spewing a bunch of B.S.

[mike_c]

37. Dahr Jamail has more credibility than most American journalists...

...IMO, and his recommendation carries a lot of weight with me.

[Clarkie1]

39. Like Truthout's credibility?

I'm beginning to think DU exists in some kind of little fantasy world all it's own. That video is crap. I wonder how much the guy was paid to say that stuff.

He disgusts me.

[LibertyorDeath]

45. You seem to know next to nothing....... about Dahr Jamail

so you resort to flaming this thread with your baseless
accusations.

[NanceGreggs]

49. Keep arguing your point, Clarkie1!

Everytime you do, you KICK this thread!

Oh, did I say 'kick'?

Ooops, did it again, didn't I?

[mirandapriestly]

50. Paid by whom? How can you be so sure?nt

[mike_c]

54. right-- this from a guy with a general's pic in his sig...

...and a generals name for his DU account. Don't be going all Patton and stuff on the poor misguided ranger....

[mr blur]

74. Well, someone's in deep denial, aren't they? (nt)

[hiley]

80. Dahr Jamail & Truthout no comparison, Dahr has been in Iraq

reporting without being embedded bullshit.

[rman]

83. If you don't feel at home on DU, you're free to leave.

[wtmusic]

94. Funny you bring up "little fantasy worlds" nt

[Junkdrawer]

103. "I wonder how much the guy was paid to say that stuff." I wonder...

which way that finger points...

[EnfantTerrible]

107. I'm wondering

Whose payroll you are on?

[Joe Chi Minh]

176. Usual suspects...

[Joe Chi Minh]

192. Have to say I think The Usual Suspects are double bluffing.

When I started to look at the first video, his body language didn't seem plausible for someone who'd been personally involved in the commission of heinous atrocities. Even maybe for an out-and-out psychopath.

His face is always relaxed and he seems to be all but smiling all the time. From what I've read of returned vets who were so involved, casually picking up his baby with paternal solicitude and that constant tranquil expression doesn't fit. Even his eyes - the window of the soul - are relaxed.

Then when I saw the info on all the "errors" in his dress, it's seems pretty compelling.

SO WHAT! The reason Democrats are prone to believe the worst about the ministrations of the Abou Ghraibers, is precisely because they've proved there is no depth to which they won't sink. Heck we enjoy finding them out so much we can't contain always ourselves. I suppose we should allow them their little moments of childish triumph.

[novalib]

109. "He Disgusts Me".

So he disgusts you.

Would that be because he is speaking THE TRUTH??

[Clarkie1]

215. And you determined that he is speaking the truth how? n/t

[Ms. Clio]

126. Haditha

Lawmaker: Marines killed Iraqis ‘in cold blood’

WASHINGTON - A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood," a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday.

From the beginning, Iraqis in the town of Haditha said U.S. Marines deliberately killed 15 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children.

One young Iraqi girl said the Marines killed six members of her family, including her parents. “The Americans came into the room where my father was praying,” she said, “and shot him.”

(snip)

Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

[hiley]

131. The Haditha video evidence

below Rep.Murtha's video
at http://veredictum.com/node/212

The Haditha video evidence, shot by an Iraqi film student, showed the aftermath of the murders in Haditha. Unarmed bodies of women children were seen slain in praying positions. The walls were covered with blood and bullet holes.




A 9 year old girl survived the Haditha massacre and was able to provide an eyewitness account of the crimes. In the video at the beginning of this article (pictured at left), the 9 year old girl describes what she witnessed, "The American's came into my room where my father was praying. They went to my grandmother and killed her too. I heard an explosion. They threw a grenade under my grandfather's bed."



The Haditha video evidence was eventually obtained by Time Magazine and broadcast on Arab television. The Pentagon gave way to public pressure and opened an investigation into the killings at Haditha. We can't help but wonder how many other atrocities have been ignored or covered-up due to a lack of public evidence and public pressure?

<clip>

MORE & the BBC Report

http://veredictum.com/node/212

[Ms. Clio]

136. thanks for the additional info.

Of course this has happened hundreds, even thousands of times already. Does anyone seriously believe there was just one My Lai in Vietnam?

[hiley]

139. only the seriously

delusional, and your welcome.

[meganmonkey]

141. Good lord

Fantasy world, indeed. A fantasy world where things like this don't happen in war.

And comparing Dahr Jamail to the Truthout mess.

How much do YOU get paid for the shit you spew?

[file83]

155. I think Dahr Jamail might have been tricked like Dan Rather got tricked...

...see my post below:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Joe Chi Minh]

178. As I understand it, Dan Rather is one of the nation's heroes.

Which means the Abou Graibers (Neocons) hate him. The people didn't sack him from his job, Dumbo.

[dailykoff]

179. Except Rather didn't get tricked.

No one's proven that the documents weren't legitimate. His network simply caved into pressure. Big surprise.

[file83]

195. Yeah, but you know what I mean.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigluckyfeet]

137. Pray for America

How can God overlook such wickedness.

[dailykoff]

51. In case anyone doubts that Operation Iraqi Freedom

is nothing but a genocidal oil rip-off, here's your proof.

p.s. we are gonna nailed for this by history if not by the Hague.

[peacetheonlyway]

53. good point, where's my European asskicking "Tough Love"

....

but where the FUCK is Europe?

We bailed their asses out over Hitler.. where's the modern day Churchill to pull together the opposing team to come in here and show us a little ass kicking 'tough love"

I need my European Tough Love right about now..????

and don't ask the dutch.. if I remember correctly, it took the nazi's what, a day, to secure most of holland?

Cool EuroStates to Bush:

"Brother, we love ya man, but we gotta get you into a treatment program over your alcohol abuse, and while we're at it, we're taking away your nuclear toys... it's time to grow up georgie.... you're not in college anymore"

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LibertyorDeath]

55. Thanks peacetheonlyway

Kevin Benderman & his wife Monica posted at DU for a while.
Their story is inspirational.
They are very courageous.

[peacetheonlyway]

56. I was at the kangaroo Court Joke of a Trial

it was a total sham..

the judge was ugly and had too much caffeine.. she slapped her own army lawyers consistently for their sloppy job and all but wanted to give all the trial wins to benderman's sharp/smart attorneys but she couldn't.

the sentence of 15 months (exactly the tour of duty length benderman was supposed to do a 3rd time in iraq) was predetermined before the trial...

the audio of the trial shows that Benderman was railroaded..

when this is all over and honest people are back in the whitehouse, we will award benderman a medal of honor.. and his wife and kids too for putting up with this shit for as long as they have.....

thanks for saying thank-you.....

[NanceGreggs]

57. Well said!

Uh, oh ...

I think I just again.

Can't seem to help myself.

[peacetheonlyway]

58. hey nance... that donkey of yours

sure has a kicking habit...

thank god for Kicking democrats.....

[NanceGreggs]

61. HEY!!!!!

Did you just say ?

I thought you said , but I could have been mistaken!

[peacetheonlyway]

104. the only thing better

is if your donkey was kicking bush's head up and down...

hee hee....

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LibertyorDeath]

60. Thanks to wtmusic for getting it on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=wtmusic

Rate it UP!

[Hatalles]

63. There's a freep dropping nasty comments at the vid page. nt

[NanceGreggs]

64. Is he emailing his comments from Iraq?

That's where all the Freepers are, you know, fighting for this Noble Cause and all ...

Oh, oh, I think I just again!

[Hatalles]

65. Note to YouTube visitors/members...

Leave a comment or two on at least one of the vids... about 24 comments and it should hit the Most Discussed page... which is often the quickest way to get it over onto the Most Viewed page.

[Hatalles]

72. The Part 3 video clip has made YouTube's "Most Discussed List" for the day

[DTinAZ]

265. The videos have all been deleted from YouTube

Perhaps they were removed from YouTube by "wtmusic" because the PeaceFilms.org site is back online, and has the video, or more likely, it's due to the growing list of discrepancies involved with this story.

DT

[northamericancitizen]

66. One more Kick. Peace Now....

[laylah]

69. Imagine! n/t

[tavalon]

71. kick

Just like I got kicked in the gut by this. Man that guy is suffering. And our fucking Government couldn't care less if they tried.

[Mnemosyne]

77. Needs a

[rman]

81. kick for peace

[hiley]

85. yes

peace

[OKNancy]

87. I'd like to know when he was there - I can't

watch the movie since the site says "disabled"

He was protesting against a coffee house in March of 2004

Can a person be a Ranger at age 19 or 20?

April 12, 2004

Jesse MacBeth told another story.

MacBeth, a 20-year-old U.S. soldier who recently returned from Iraq after sustaining a back injury, said Coffee Plantation banned him from the store in March for the way he was dressed -- in his training uniform.

He had been sipping coffee calmly when a store employee asked him to leave. He refused.

Management insisted that he leave even after he took out his military ID card. Security guards escorted him off the premises under threat of arrest if he returned.

He said he hoped the protest would disrupt the flow of customers into the store.

---------------------------
More about his coffe store protest

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:VWAnD1gbBDkJ:www.as...

But before that, let me tell you why I protest. I don't protest for the homeless people because I know most of them are homeless because that is the way they choose to live. They like that life. I am doing my protest against Coffee Plantation on the basis that they banned me from their property for the sole reason that I was in my military uniform, in case some of the boneheads who own Coffee Plantation and those in the press who advocate for them have forgotten. This is America. We are still at war. Soldiers and civilians are still dying. So why would someone boot an American soldier who is drinking coffee that he paid for and talking quietly to friends?

snip
I love America. I would fight a million wars and die a million times to ensure the safety of America and the American people. So if that makes me a jerk or a socialistic pig, then so be it. I have a lot of pride in my country, my service in my uniform and all of my battle buddies out there right now fighting and dying.

"If you cut down the customers a lot, then they won't keep their business going," MacBeth said. "That's the whole point, to let society know what's going on."
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:jO1WfQ4goigJ:www.as...

[Heidi]

91. The video is very compelling.

I thought about calling my dad (Vietnam vet, Army) and asking him to watch the video himself and let me know what he thinks.

You can watch the video here, Nancy, in three parts:

Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtwAPMUXZ-M
Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9LGHGqSKEc
Part III: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFHgMlbNwU

[OKNancy]

92. Thanks, I watched the first part. video say he was wounded

article says a back injury.

I'm suspicious.

[wtmusic]

93. Try video on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtwAPMUXZ-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9LGHGqSKEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFHgMlbNwU

[fun n serious]

95. Someone is Hushing him

The original video has been diabled.

[wtmusic]

97. It's possible the server was overwhelmed. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

98. The video link has been disabled. NSA is at it again. Anyone have a copy

of the video?

[Heidi]

100. Here it is in three parts:

Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtwAPMUXZ-M
Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9LGHGqSKEc
Part III: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFHgMlbNwU
__________________

[in_cog_ni_to]

113. Thank you, Heidi.

[Heidi]

114. Prego!

[Junkdrawer]

101. See post #92 n/t

[Xithras]

130. Looks like they exceeded their account limits.

I thought it was suspicious that the site went down too, but it looks like they have a shared hosting plan with Yahoo. It's standard Yahoo practice that when a client exceeds the bandwidth they've paid for, the site gets shut down until more bandwidth is purchased. I would guess that the sudden rush of viewers for this video pushed them over their bandwidth limit, so Yahoo cut them off.

Before you attack Yahoo over this, remember WHY they do it...the case of an infamous Slashdotting victim. Many years ago some poor sap had a small back bedroom business and one of those $99 a month hosting plans that got him XGb of transfer allowance. He posted a video or something that made it onto Slashdot, and his traffic exploded as their several hundred thousand viewers all clicked the link to his page. When the guy got his bill the next month, he had something like $30,000 in bandwidth charges, which absolutely broke him. There was a campaign to get his host to waive the charges, but he ended up paying a substantial portion of it.

The case became fairly well known at the time, and following that most hosting providers changed their models to start cutting people off when allowed transfer limits are exceeded. It looks like that may be the case here as well.

[peacebuzzard]

99. (gasp) I saw this last night and

I have no doubt we have exceeded the 100k mark of civilian deaths.

This misnomer -- insurgents-- has been erroneously and liberally applied as a label to justify the slaughter of an innocent population.

[wtmusic]

102. YouTube video (and kick)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtwAPMUXZ-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9LGHGqSKEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFHgMlbNwU

[DTinAZ]

105. His name seems to be "Jesse" -- not "Jessie"?

...and yet in the "Pepperspray Productions" graphic in your post, the name seems to be misspelled. A little searching with Google confirms that, so the misspelling in the graphic that you presumeably obtained from "peacefilms.org" before it was taken offline is puzzling, and a bit of a red flag.

DT

[DTinAZ]

198. Spoke with people from Pepperspray Productions

...and the "Jessie" thing was a mistake made by a producer, who didn't ask for the spelling of his first name.

DT

[deaniac21]

106. He is going to be one of the leaders of the revolution!

http://www.socialistalternative.org/news/article13.php?...

[DTinAZ]

111. I've written to the website owners...

...of both "peacefilms.org" and PepperSpray Productions, asking for some clarification on this video interview. The misspelling of his name in the graphic is odd, as is the lack of mention of this video on the PP website. I copied the message to the Iraq Veterans Against the War, in that Jesse Macbeth is listed as being affiliated with them on various blogs regarding recent protests.

DT

[Heidi]

116. Other questions.

My father is a Vietnam veteran, and has spent much of his professional career in service of other veterans. It is my opinion that less-than-credible spokespersons have the potential to damage to the work and inroads made by other veterans who've served and lived to talk about the experience. Mr. Macbeth's video account supports much of what many of us believe and which would serve our cause. It is in interest of truth that I respectfully ask, in curiosity and not mean-spiritedness, about Jesse Macbeth:

- Date of enlistment and age at enlistment
- The jurisdiction of the court that gave him the choice of enlisting or going to jail
- Location and dates of basic and Ranger training
- Term of deployment and related information (with whom he served and names of commanding officers)
- Docmented wounds and any related awards for combat injuries
- Date of return from Overseas
- Any documentable repercussions he believes he has suffered as a direct result of his outspokeness

[wtmusic]

118. At this stage some verification of claims would certainly help. nt

[DTinAZ]

267. Explanation from the owner of Peacefilms.org

The following was posted in the Guestbook on the Peacefilms.org site:

Submitted by: Terry Portinga
Comments: I am the citizen who put the Jessie Macbeth interview on my website. I am a volunteer social justice cameraperson/video editor. I did not film or edit Jessie's interview yet I did put it on the site and I take full responsiblity for that. At present we have asked a number of veterans, those who know Jessie and those who don't, to review the video and talk with Jessie. I am hoping to hear the first reports shortly. If Jessie's claim to be a Ranger does not check out as I am hearing other citizens say is the case, I plan to still intensely follow up on whether the experiences Jessie claims to have had in Iraq are valid. If there is truth in Jessie's story, whether he was a Ranger of not, we as citizens must know. So lets see first what the vetera**ay. I will let everyone know. If Jessie's story is found valid, he will stay on this website. If Jessie is not a Ranger but his story checks out, I will pull the interview off the site but Jessie will be back in a new interview that has been verified. I'm new at all this so bear with me. We are all just citizens trying to get at the truth.
This site was put together by a web designer giving me little recourse at present but to communicate with everyone the way we all communicate on this site and that is through the guestbook. But it should work out.
In the meantime, how about if someone goes to the video page with Ms. Eman Ahmad Khamas speaking and lets us know what they think. Listen to her talk about genocide. I know the text is long and small on that page but get out your magnifying glass. The Vets will put Jessie under a magnifying glass and you can put Ms. Khamas under one. Fair enough? Go to the "Learn Something" page and click on the link, Women Say No To War. Dig around and read some of the articles about Ms. Khamas. Ok, I only have read one myself so far but hey, thinking is tough. But in a democracy of the people we have to think, like it or not. Case in point: It appears I should have been more critical regarding the Jessie Macbeth interview. But that is what freedom of speech is all about. Getting feedback, altering course with the help of other free voices and arriving at the truth.

Terry doesn't seem to be responding to emails (not mine, at least), and I don't think that anyone has yet received a response from IVAW either (and many of us have written to them). The only principals who are communicating about this are the people at Pepperspray Productions.

DT

[theboss]

269. If he is not a ranger, but his story is valid?

Oh...well...sure...he has a lot of credibility at that point.

Is that we've been reduced to? Close enough to the truth?

[davepc]

274. well, the story still has some truthiness!

A fraud is a fraud.

[brentspeak]

115. Hmm. This is a good test to see which DUers are gullible and

which ones aren't.

There are red flags all over both the video and its website which indicate this story could be 100% B.S.

[wtmusic]

117. You're right

And I'll own up to it. If he's lying I sure as hell hope he never gets a shot at selling me something...

[Peter Frank]

206. Well, I sincerely hope that this is a bogus story... n/t

[retrospective66]

119. Peacefilms Site Disabled

At least that's what I get....


Site Temporarily Disabled
This site has been temporarily disabled. If you are the owner of the site, please contact customer care.

[Scoody Boo]

123. It appears he was not a Ranger.

His picture of him in his Ranger Uniform is up on another site. Wrong flash on his beret. He is wearing Special Forces Flash on his beret, this is simply not done, EVER.

Also, it appears that on the dates he gave for being in Falujah fighting with 3rd Ranger Battalion, 3rd Ranger Battalion was back in Ft. Benning being awarded a campaign streamer for their Battalion Guidon.

He claims to have a Combat Action Badge along with a Combat Infantryman's Badge. As an infantryman he would be inelegible for a CAB.

I'm sorry folks. Somone will sonnoer or later blow the lid off of what is going on in Iraqm but I don't think it will be this guy.

[Heidi]

125. Links?

I'm interested in learning more and seeing for myself. Do you have links to the other sites you mentioned?

[file83]

140. I'm not an expert, but this is what some people are saying about his beret

and the most obvious - he's wearing it the wrong way in his photo:



Notice his beret is sloping down to his left.

But every Army Ranger wears their berets sloping down to their right:




I don't want to believe he is a fraud (and fooled PepperSpray Productions), but at the same time, I don't want us all to pull a Dan Rather.

I'm sure a lot of the stuff Macbeth discusses happened, but he may not be real - maybe he is a plant to try and discredit some people, like Rather got framed?

[Ms. Clio]

147. yes, this is more persuasive

but damn, I'd hate to see Dahr Jamail get Rathered on this.

[-..__...]

148. Looks like he's wearing a new beret with the lining still in it.

Usual SOP for any new beret is to immediately rip the lining out and soak and shape it so it lays to the side like the ones in the above pics.

[file83]

152. I also noticed the fold on Macbeth's beret is wrong...

...all rangers (and regular army) begin the fold on the beret near the top of the badge/crest patch. Macbeth's beret has a fold that begins near the bottom.

I've read about the beret and how seriously Army Rangers take wearing it. It is a matter of serious pride and history and honor. There is simply no way he'd wear the beret that way in a photo.

I've heard others mention minor details like the way his sleeves are rolled up is wrong. The Army T-shirt that is issued is brown, not black. I've read that his badge/patch is completely wrong - that there is no branch of Army Rangers that has a yellow patch.

But, wearing the beret wrong is enough for me. This guy is a fraud - my only question now is why?

Who is Jessie Macbeth?

[davepc]

164. try here.

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/milblogs /
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/05/antiwar_poseur_.h...
http://www.indepundit.com/archive2/2006/05/winter_soldi...

some of these are more right wing then others.

discussion at Kos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/21/19755/3571

[Xithras]

127. His story is a deft mix of truth and fiction.

Enough truth to make it believable, and just enough fiction to piss people off. I have friends and family who have been in Iraq, and I've had many half-sober conversations with them about what is really going on there. Freaky s$#& to be sure, but nothing like this guy is describing. Every one of them has a story about a dead civilian...the car they lit up when it blew through a checkpoint, the 12 year old kid who ran into the street with a toy gun, the goat herder that made the mistake of hanging his pack on the highway rail as he sat on it to eat lunch. The common thread between them is that in every case, the soldiers believed that the dead civilians were a threat. Did they shoot at protesters? Yeah, over their heads. Did they threaten family members of known insurgents to get those insurgents to talk? Yeah. Did they kill those family members? No, they scared them, they occasionally detained them, but none of them would ever shoot someone they knew to be innocent.

This guy has taken the truth of Iraq, some of which does admittedly skirt the law, and has added just a handful of details here and there to push it over the top.

Why don't I believe it? Because one of the other things I happen to have learned from them is that there are ALL KINDS of international media organizations (primarily from Europe, but also Al Jazeera and other ME networks) running around Baghdad looking for the slightest hint of scandal to use against us. Europe isn't America's biggest fan at the moment, and anti-American stories are hot commodities over there. If you expect me to believe that American soldiers slaughtered an entire mosque full of innocent Iraqi's, burned their bodies, hung the remains from the rafters, and covered the inside of the building with anti-Iraqi/pro-America graffitti, and that NOT ONE journalist from ANY country ANYWHERE heard about or reported on it, you're going to have to show me more evidence than a dodgy video from some guy with a questionable military background claiming that it's so. Where are the bodies? Where are the families? Where are the photos? Mission reports? Who was his commanding officer on this mission? Where did the order come from? I understand that the American media wouldn't cover this, but there is plenty of media there that WOULD.

If this really happened, he could have simply refused the order. The worst they could have done to him is charge him with a violation of Article 90, but the media would have been all over that. We executed the death camp SS guards after WWII because we decided that "following orders" wasn't an acceptable excuse for war crimes. The fact that he didn't do so proves that he's either lying, or that he's the modern equivalent of the Nazi SS. Both possibilities put everything he says under a haze of suspicion, so I really won't believe a word of it until some sort of supporting evidence is found.

[Ms. Clio]

133. Haditha

Lawmaker: Marines killed Iraqis ‘in cold blood’

WASHINGTON - A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood," a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday.

From the beginning, Iraqis in the town of Haditha said U.S. Marines deliberately killed 15 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children.

One young Iraqi girl said the Marines killed six members of her family, including her parents. “The Americans came into the room where my father was praying,” she said, “and shot him.”

(snip)

Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

[wtmusic]

135. You have no proof that he's lying

so why make the false claim that his story is part fiction? You have your opinion--don't we all. Let's find out the truth.

BTW, "the media would have been all over that" is lame support for your argument. The media wasn't anywhere near "that".

[Scoody Boo]

143. That he wears fake flash...

on his Ranger Beret is enough proof for me to doubt the guy was ever a Ranger. A Ranger does not need to wear Special Forces flash and is in fact in violation of the UCMJ if he does so.

His sleeves are rolled up wrong, he has the wrong t-shirt on.



Maybe what happened happened, but I need to hear it from a guy who at least was a Ranger if he claims to be one.

All this guy is doing is set himself up to be shutdown.

[wtmusic]

144. We'll see

but you have a good point about the flash -- compare to photo of Pat Tillman:

[file83]

145. Did you notice too that his beret is on the WRONG way?

Check it in this post I made that illustrates it clear as day:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Scoody Boo]

151. Earlier this morning Jessie MacBeth...

had a profile on Military.com. It is gone now. In his profile he claimed to have both a Combat Action Badge and a Combat Infantryman's Badge. If he had a CIB, he was an Infantryman and not eligible for the CAB. If he had a CAB he was not an Infantryman and not eligible for a CIB. No soldier is eligible for both.

[file83]

153. Have the freepers picked up on this?

They would have a hay day - DU Admins better yank this article off line quick.

[Scoody Boo]

168. Freepers, Veterans' Sites...

Ranger.com, The Site that exists only to ridicule this site. This guy is getting a new asshole torn into him all over the internet. Things, proof that he is a poser is popping up all over the net. Independent verification of story has not.

It is one of the faults of this site that people scurry immedeately to support anyone who says what they want to hear.

I want to hear that Cheney and Rove were dragged out of the Whitehouse in cuffs, kicking and screaming. I want somebody to tell me that I won the lottery. But I want it to be true when I hear it.

[kittenwithmittens]

170. Way too late.

The site that shall not be named has been all over it since this morning. They debunked this guy in about ten minutes.

[OKNancy]

154. He said he got a bronze star too

see post 149

[file83]

160. I'm not sure what that signifies, lot's of people get bronze stars...

...and there is no way to check Macbeth's claim against an official list: no list exists for the Bronze Star.

What do you think is important about that claim?

[OKNancy]

184. I have no idea. My thoughts are that

although I don't doubt there were atrocities in Iraq, I'm not sure about this particular messenger.
Something about him just doesn't ring true.
He just doesn't look and act like a Ranger. In the Coffee House protest article of 2004 it puts his age at 20. Can a person be a Ranger at age 19 or 20? In the same article it said he was out because of a back injury and there was no mention of stabbing or shootings. Now, he could have done a second tour after that article, but does that jibe with the Fallujah dates.

I think we owe it to ourselves to be skeptical and be careful adopting our heroes. By that I mean "DU heroes". If it all pans out, then so much the better. If not, then it is another lesson learned.

[wtmusic]

159. Screenshot

I thought something like this might happen, so I took the liberty:

[file83]

163. And now that page has been removed? Weird....I wonder why.

Anyone can sign up at Military.com and pretend to be in the military, right?

[wtmusic]

165. Yep.

Somehow I think whoever removed the listing might be able to give us some answers.

[Ms. Clio]

174. so anybody could have posted all that info & called himself Jesse Macbeth?

hmmmmmm.

[wtmusic]

182. Exactly. Hmmmm.

The plot thickens. Or thins.

[Scoody Boo]

189. If the profile was put up...

to discredit him, it would still be up. My guess is MacBeth put it up himself, was called on a lot of stuff and decided to pull it.

[file83]

193. I just set up a profile for Fred Garvin (Dan Akroyd)...

http://unitpages.military.com/community/MemberProfile/M...

Anyone can do this.

[-..__...]

194. The Military.com account/membership was activated in 2005.

(no month given).

The protest march pic was taken on March, 19 2006.

So, if the Mil.Com profile was not set-up by MacBeth, then the impostor responsible for the info must have been clairvoyant in seeing that the real Jessie would pop-up months later telling some questionable war related stories.

The Interests: "Killing Haajis" comment... an impostor wouldn't have spoiled the effect by posting that. Could be that Mr MacBeth has a strange sense of dark sarcasm?

[wtmusic]

199. That comment struck me as odd too

but agree that it's more a verifier than a detractor. Severely brainwashed at the time?

[Ms. Clio]

201. the protest march pic could have been posted anytime, though

and the killing haajis comment is what really makes it sound like an imposter, to me. We have no way of knowing how or when this profile has been edited, either.

I'd like to know if he had any interactions with those groups he apparently joined.

[LibertyorDeath]

166. I could Kiss YA !!

THANKS!!!!

At least let me buy a round

on edit anyone can sign up and post that info

Ok then I'm still waiting on IVAW response

but the Thanks and the drink still go.

[wtmusic]

169. You got it

I think we're all going to need a drink by the time this is over.

I'm going to be seriously pissed, either way.

[Ms. Clio]

171. great work!

there's definitely something hinky about all this.

[Scoody Boo]

175. That is what I was talking about...

the Combat Action Badge on the lower left and the Combat Infantryman's Badge on the lower right cannot be awarded to the same soldier. The CAB is strictly for those MOS that are not Infantry. The CIB is strictly for Infantryman.

[LibertyorDeath]

190. Are you 110% on that?....Just asking

[Scoody Boo]

200. Yes. 100% Certain.

The Combat Action Badge was introduced so that soldiers who had been in combat BUT WERE NOT INFANTRY could recieve some recognition. Before that, the only people authorized to wear a Combat badge were Infantrymen when awarded a Combat Infantryman's Badge and no one else.

He would not have been a Ranger if not an Infantryman.

[reformed_military]

270. Clarification on the CAB and Ranger/Infantry

An Infantry soldier needs to be assigned to an Infantry unit to be eligible for a CIB, it is not just because he is an Infantry Soldier.

Criteria for the CAB:

(a) May be awarded to any Soldier.

(b) Soldier must be performing assigned duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized.

(c) Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or beingengaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.

(d) Soldier must not be assigned/attached to a unit that would qualify the Soldier for the CIB/CMB. (For example, an 11B assigned to Corps staff is eligible for award of the CAB. However, an 11B assigned to an infantry battalion is not eligible for award of the CAB.)

Currently, there has been only ONE period for awarding the CAB (9/12/2001 to current), so his Military.com site where he has a CAB with a star on it (2nd award) is impossible. A second time period has not been created. Same for his CIB... 1 award for the Iraq/'Stan.

Additionally, Rangers in general and a Ranger Battalion specifically are made up of infantry and non-infantry soldiers. Try and tell an Ranger Medic that he is not a Ranger because he is not infantry.

Before that, the only people authorized to wear a Combat badge were Infantrymen when awarded a Combat Infantryman's Badge and no one else/

Don't forget the CMB (Combat Medics Badge)

Having said that, he is a total, 100% fake.

[DTinAZ]

271. the awards and badges have been removed...

...from his Military.com profile overnight. But there's no certainty that "Jesse" even created the profile in the first place.

DT

[DTinAZ]

204. The profile is NOT gone...

...but you have to be logged in as a registered user to view it. I just logged in and was able to view the profile, as have almost 100 other people since the screen shot was posted here earlier today.

The thing that bother me about the profile is where it says "now a single father" because at the beginning of the video on YouTube, the narration states "we went to the home of Iraq veteral Jesse Macbeth and his wife Lynne and their newborn baby boy." So, unless his wife has very recently left him, that's inconsistent.

DT

[DTinAZ]

264. The Military.com profile has been redacted

The profile for "Jesse a Macbeth" has been further edited in the last 24 hours, removing all the "Awards" and "Badges" that formerly appeared there. Some have pointed out discrepancies in the combination of badges that formerly appeared in the profile. The removal of that information, if done by "Jesse" himself, is a further red flag.

DT

[Xithras]

207. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Carl Sagan was the brilliant man who dreamt up that quote, and it's the standard by which I judge all claims.

You are asking me to hang the entire military because of the unsubstantiated claims of a single individual. I never said he was a liar, only that somebody making a claim like that needs to have either the background or the evidence to back it up. What I see right now is simply a claim, with absolutely nothing to offer it even a sliver of credibility. You think his uniform gives him credibility? George Bush wore a uniform, how much credibility does that give him? Nada.

My statement was that my discussions with Iraqi vets, nearly all of whom either killed or were present during the killing of Iraqi civilians, challenge this lone individuals claim of systematic and deliberate executions of civilians. He has one claim, they have another. If he wants his claim to outweigh theirs, he's going to need more evidence than his voice. So where is that evidence? Where are the dates? The after action reports? Where in Baghdad is this mosque that was vandalized where the mass murder happened? What supporting evidence is there of the child executions? Surely their bodies are buried somewhere and can be examined to substantiate his claim, so whhat evidence can he give us to identify them? And speaking of identification...if he's so horrified by his "crimes", why hasn't he identified his commanding officers? Surely he understands that the Hague would be interested in charging people if genuine war crimes were committed, so why hasn't he released their names so an investigation can begin? Oh, and who were the other people in his unit? It would be interesting to see what they have to say about his claim.

The words of an individual are not "evidence", they are a claim. I'm not calling him a liar, but I'm saying that his claim isn't believable until some sort of evidence is proffered.

As for the media, the AMERICAN media may have abandoned its duty to the truth, but there's plenty of non-American media in Iraq who would have exploited an atrocity like that to the hilt. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that the Italian socialist papers would have buried it? Are you going to have me believe that Al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya would have conveniently ignored a slaughter like he describes? The American media may be complicit in the Iraqi farce, but there are plenty of non-American media networks in the Baghdad area who would have jumped on it as the scoop of a lifetime.

Hell, the friggin Baghdad bloggers would have been all over it! So where's the evidence?

[wtmusic]

134. He never claims to have been in Fallujah. nt

[OKNancy]

149. Yes he did

http://www.socialistalternative.org/news/article13.php?...

What did your division do?
I was in the Third Ranger Battalion. Our job was to strike fear in the hearts of the Iraqi people.


We would go into people's houses and plow down entire families. We would interrogate people. If we didn't like the answers that they gave, then we would kill the youngest child. If they gave more answers that we didn't like, then we'd move on to the rest of the family. They could've been innocent people.


We would leave the bodies in the streets and blame it on the Shi'ites or the Sunnis. we were ordered to go into mosques and slaughter people while they were praying. I won't go into full detail because I'm still haunted by the memories.


What was the assault on Fallujah like?
Fallujah is where we slaughtered people in mosques. We provoked the people there. Some people escaped from the mosques and saw us. We would dig holes and leave mass graves of children, women, and old men. We were ordered to let people die on the street. We were told that the Geneva Convention means nothing to us in combat.


We were ordered to fire on peaceful protesters in Fallujah. Somebody threw a rock at us, and an officer said that he thought it was a grenade. Then we were ordered to fire. When it's daylight in Iraq, it's daylight! Nobody really thought it was a grenade.


What medals did you get in Iraq?
I got a lot. I got a purple heart. Half of them, I don't remember. I got five or six medals just for landing. I got a bronze star.


What injuries did you get?
I got stabbed many times. I got shrapnel in my knee. I got shot in the back.

[wtmusic]

162. OK

Hadn't seen that article. But where are the dates posters say contradict his story?

[Alameda]

124. dehumanizing our troops

The problem is that being in an active combat situation is a prime cause of the dehumanization of our troops. They are not really to blame, they are being turned this way.

From what I've learned, keeping ones humanity in a situation such as the one they are in is nearly impossible.

Imagine you have a nice pet, kick, abuse, traumatize it and then what do you get? Anyone who has fostered an abused animal or child knows what I mean.

[populistdriven]

129. The US seeded Death Squads in Iraq - wo why not believe his story?

[file83]

173. It's not the story - it's the man attached to the story. You see...

...this is why we must be careful:

This Jessie Macbeth guy convinces a whole bunch of anti-war people that his story is true.

The anti-war movement rallys around him.

The Bush supporters get a "tip" that he's fake. Macbeth is researched and proven a fraud.

The anti-war movement gets laughed at and loses credibility. And then NO ONE on the right will ever believe another war crimes story from the anti-war movement EVER again. Not good.

We must NOT allow this to happen. EVER. Just in this thread alone, a lot of minor blog research has discovered that this guy has a high probability of being a fraudster.

Let's not pull another Dan Rather.

[LibertyorDeath]

186. Good advice

I'm trying to verify it through IVAW

[Peter Frank]

262. I could not agree more. Well said...

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LibertyorDeath]

138. Iraq Veterans Against the War think he's legit , so do I

From dyingwarriors blogspot
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Nr0UvuVwjVQJ:dyingwa...

Googles un-cached version has All the Names Removed...WTF
see here http://dyingwarriors.blogspot.com /


Iraq Veterans Against the War lead off the 3rd anniversary war in Iraq/Afghanistan march and rally in Tacoma, WA. on March 19, 2006. right; Joshua Farris, returning Iraq veteran. left; Jesse MacBeth.



Introducing returning Iraq veteran. March 19, 2006, Tacoma, WA third anniversary war Iraq/Afghanistan rally. left; Joshua Farris, returning Iraq veteran. center; Lietta Ruger of Military Families Speak Out - WA chapter; right; Jesse MacBeth


Iraq/Afghanistan third anniversary presentations returning Iraq veteran and Military Families Speak Out - Washington state chapter; March 19, 2006 in Tacoma, WA. left = returning Iraq veteran, Joshua Farris.
center = Jesse Macbeth

[meganmonkey]

146. Thanks

I can understand people not wanting to believe that US soldiers are doing these things and that our tax dollars are paying for it. It is hard to imagine the circumstances that would lead a soldier to commit such horrible acts.

But there has NEVER been a war in which such atrocities didn't occur.

I weep for this man and his own wounds, and for the Iraqis whose lives were destroyed, and those who continue to be destroyed every day that this war goes on.

So thanks for posting these pictures. Those who refuse to believe Mr. Macbethn may not think these pics are enough evidence that this guy is for real. But those who aren't sure will see these and realize it is true.


PEACE!

[LibertyorDeath]

150. I'm currently emailing IVAW to try & establish beyond Any Doubt

that Jesse Macbeth is a former Army Ranger that served in Iraq.

[meganmonkey]

156. That's a great idea

although I am sure there are still those who will demand scans of his records posted online, and then claim that they are photoshopped anyway

[DTinAZ]

157. Hope they answer soon

I did that hours ago and they've not answered. I also called the phone number on their website, but it says that they're in the office on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I emailed the owner of the "peacefilms.org" website as well as PepperSpray Productions, and neither of them have responded yet.

DT

[LibertyorDeath]

161. I just sent the email. Will post the response soon hopefully

[brentspeak]

187. If this guy in question was marching with IVAR, it still doesn't mean

he is who he claims to be (a Ranger). It just means he approached IVAR before a rally, told them he was a Ranger, few questions were asked of him, and they let him march with them. It does not necessarily mean they are vouching for this guy's story, or even at this time confirming that he was a Ranger.

[LibertyorDeath]

191. That's why I emailed them for confirmation

that he is indeed a former Army Ranger back from Iraq.

[brentspeak]

225. You still think he's "legit", now?

[DTinAZ]

286. IVAW confirms his resignation from their organization

I just got off the phone with them. They're not ready to post anything about this on their website, in that it's still under investigation. I suggested to them that they try to post some sort of disclaimer about his statements/video/activities very soon.

DT

[reprobate]

172. "Site Temporarily Disabled" Someone really don't like what he says.

[file83]

177. That may be because the owners have reason to believe they were tricked...

and want to do the prudent thing and remove the video until they can be sure.

This happens more when a story becomes popular. If the producers were tricked, the viewers will tell them so.

[wtmusic]

180. More likely a bandwidth issue

they got hit with thousands of requests for video and they weren't prepared for it

[LibertyorDeath]

185. Yes bandwith issue this is just a small sample of Groups that have a link

to the Video

http://groups.google.ca/groups/search?hl=en&q=Jesse+Mac...
Sorted by relevance Sort by date
No Bravery! USA Army Ranger - Jessie Macbeth
... info/article13140.htm "What we are doing over there is wrong" Confessions Of An
Iraqi War Veteran Jessie Macbeth - Former Army Ranger and Iraq War Veteran ...
seattle.politics - May 22, 7:28 am by torresD - 1 message - 1 author

Testimony from a US Army Ranger
... 34:59 PM Central Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes: May 21, 2006 Testimony
from a former US Army Ranger Jessie Macbeth, a Former Army Ranger and Iraq ...
Open Debate Political Forum IMHO - May 22, 10:27 am by NT - 13 messages - 5 authors

Former US Army Ranger and Iraq War Veteran Tells All
REPOSTED TO BROADEN DISTRIBUTION Jessie Macbeth, a Former Army Ranger and Iraq War
Veteran Tells All This 20 minute interview will change how you view the US ...
us.politics - May 21, 9:33 pm by Defendario - 1 message - 1 author

* Testimony from a former US Army Ranger *
... Visit the Dahr Jamail Iraq website http://dahrjamailiraq.com ** ** Website by
http://jeffpflueger.com ** Jessie Macbeth, a Former Army Ranger and Iraq War ...
misc.activism.progressive - May 22, 2:07 am by Richard Moore - 1 message - 1 author

"I didn't Sign Up To Kill Women & Children" Jessie Macbeth ...
... info/article13140.htm "What we are doing over there is wrong" Confessions Of An
Iraqi War Veteran Jessie Macbeth - Former Army Ranger and Iraq War Veteran ...
seattle.politics - May 22, 6:52 am by torresD - 4 messages - 3 authors

Former Army Ranger and Iraq War Veteran Tells All
A Day in the Life of Occupation www.dahrjamailiraq.com Dahr Jamail's Iraq Dispatches
Jessie Macbeth, a Former Army Ranger and Iraq War Veteran Tells All Dahr ...
misc.activism.progressive - May 22, 6:14 am by Mark Graffis - 1 message - 1 author

we were ordered to go into mosques and slaughter ...
... other interview too: http://www.peacefilms.org/videos/Jessie_Macbeth_Iraq.mo...
RightClick then SaveAs Testimony of Jessie Macbeth. Former Army Ranger and Iraq ...
aus.politics - May 22, 3:57 am by [e-mail] - 1 message - 1 author

"I didn't Sign Up To Kill Women & Children" Macbeth - Iraq War ...
... info/article13140.htm "What we are doing over there is wrong" Confessions Of An
Iraqi War Veteran Jessie Macbeth - Former Army Ranger and Iraq War Veteran ...
us.military.army - May 22, 5:50 am by torresD - 10 messages - 3 authors

NOBODY FEELS SORRY FOR AMERICANS ANY MORE
... on: 22.05.2006 <06:43 > (229 reads) Video: Testimony from a former US Army Ranger
May 21, 2006 (1188 bytes) Jessie Macbeth, a Former Army Ranger and Iraq ...
soc.culture.jewish - May 22, 9:52 am by serwad - 3 messages - 2 authors

[file83]

197. Yes, and that too. :-)

[dailykoff]

183. Rather didn't get tricked, he got smeared.

His network caved in to an internet-based smear campaign based on false allegations. No one's proven those documents weren't legit.

Just like no one's proven this fellow isn't legit.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_Tires]

208. wow...insane

[HysteryDiagnosis]

209. Vid won't play in Firefox.... any suggestions? Anyone else havin

trouble getting it to come through???

[file83]

259. You've gotta download something from YouTube....it works on my

Firefox, after I installed the player from the link they provide. You might have to close all your firefox browser windows after you install. Then repopen them - it should work.

[rpgamerd00d]

210. This has been debunked as a fake, fyi.

[wtmusic]

211. where? nt

[rpgamerd00d]

213. debunked here:

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/05/antiwar_poseur_.h...

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:jO1WfQ4goigJ:www.as...

[OKNancy]

218. Hard wading through that- here is one that states

a lot of what the skeptics here have figured out

. Claim: Attended Ranger School. Truth: Would be awarded the Ranger tab, worn on the left shoulder above the 3/75 scroll.
2. Claim: Attended Special Forces Qualification Course. Truth: Would be awarded the Special Forces tab, worn on the left shoulder above the 3/75 scroll. SFQC from start to end takes about 1.5 years to complete, without any breaks. In a 11-03-2003 interview with the Eastern Arizona Courier he claims to have been home 2.5 months, making it 08-20-2003. He claims to have spent 14 months in Iraq and Afghanistan, making it 06-20-2002 when he departed for overseas. Special Forces is a total of 18 months making it 01-20-2001. Infantry combat training (boot camp) is 13 weeks, Jump school is 3 weeks, and Ranger school is 8 weeks (total of 24 weeks) making it 07-20-2000. A total of 3 years and 4 months of training and combat. If he was 19 years old in the interview then he was 15 or 16 when he enlisted. Minimum age of enlistment is 17 with parental consent. He also claims to have joined when he was 17, so the training and combat timelines do not work out. And this is if the system worked perfectly and the day he finished one school he started another, which is impossible because these schools are not collocated.
3. Claim: Fought with 3/75 in Afghanistan and Iraq. Truth: Would be wearing former wartime service 3/75 scroll on right shoulder.
4. Claim: Wearing Special Forces shoulder sleeve insignia on right shoulder, with Special Forces Qualification tab. Truth: No claims of being assigned to any Special Forces Group. The Special Forces Qualification tab is not worn on the right shoulder as a part of the former wartime service insignia.
5. Claim: United States Army Soldier. Truth: Rolls his uniform sleeves inside out not authorized in the Army.
6. Claim: Combat Infantryman Badge 2nd award. Truth: CIBs are issued during qualifying eras. The two most recent eras are Persian Gulf War, 17 January 1991 to 11 April 1991 and Somalia, 5 June 1992 to 31 March 1994. He would have been 9 years old to qualify for a second award.
7. Claim: Combat Action Badge 2nd award. Truth: IF he was an infantryman, he would not qualify for 1 CAB, he would have had to change his MOS prior to the incident awarding the CAB. There has not been a second qualifying era to award a second CAB, so it is impossible for him to have a second award.
8. Claim: Ranger. Truth: His beret is the correct color, but he is wearing the flash for the 1st Special Forces Group (wrong) and no distinctive unit insignia (wrong), which is required.
9. Claim: Operation Iraqi Freedom/ Battle of Fallujah. Truth: The Battle of Fallujah (Operation Phantom Fury) began on 11-08-2004. As we read about our intrepid “Soldier” was at home protesting coffee prices. Operation Vigilant Justice began on 04-05-2004 and did not include elements of 3/75.

[rpgamerd00d]

221. Nice info, good research. He should be ashamed for lying.

The war is bad enough.

[IndyOp]

219. Your 'blackfive' debunking site mentions only his outfit --

I'll wait until we hear back IVAW. Also Dahr Jamail reported stories that corroborate MacBeth's accounts. Maybe MacBeth is a fake and *we do have to be careful not to be sucked in by someone who isn't telling the truth* -- still, I want to hear more than hit hat and beret are wrong.

[Julius Civitatus]

220. Dahr Jamail is being "Dan Rathered"

Which would be very convenient for the wingnuts with the growing scandal of the Haditha massacre reaching critical mass.

[Ms. Clio]

224. COINTELPRO n/t

[OKNancy]

222. more than that - his dates are wrong

I figured that out pretty quickly.

[IndyOp]

233. Perhaps he got tipped off and so pulled the video from peacefilm.org...

[-..__...]

229. Uhhh, the guy has credibility problems...

serious credibility problems.

What makes you think that the IVAW hasn't been suckered in as well?

It's not like they demand corroboration, a DD-214 or conduct a background check.

[IndyOp]

232. I logged off, thought about the picture, and now am feeling

upset about having possibly/probably been fooled about such a horrific issue. If IVAW and Dahr Jamail have been 'rathered' that sucks.

[-..__...]

239. At first I thought the guy might have actually served...

and saw some/limited action in Iraq but fabricated/lied about his Ranger, SF, decorations, awards and most importantly, what he experienced over there. I'm thinking some young stupid grunt, mechanic, NG, etc that had wanted to be the bad ass Rambo he could never be.

But now, I'm beginning to wonder if he had any military service at all.

[Scoody Boo]

250. I am beginning he is a vet at all.

Too many of the things he has screwed up on are things known by anyone with even the slightest time in the army.

[rman]

261. It would be us and IVAW who've been Rathered,

where Macbeth is the faked document - containing stuff that's in fact real.

[originalpckelly]

212. An old friend had a brother in Iraq; this is the tip of the ice berg

I never believed him, but after hearing about this, I now believe what he said was true. Basically, the G.I.s treat the Iraqis like crap. It has been a while since I talked to him, but I do remember him talking about this kind of thing.

[Mnemosyne]

235. A friend's husband is in Iraq and claims the Iraqi people,

esp. children, are "like animals". He told her the kids are so "stupid" that they have to hit them in the heads to get them to leave them alone. She has been forwarding emails to me that are ignorant, cruel and dehumanizing of the Iraqi people. The emails originate from her husband in Iraq.


I'm reconsidering the friendship.

[LibertyorDeath]

214. Does anyone here have access to USA Army personnel register

Anyone???

James A Macbeth member of

3rd Battalion 75th Infantry Regiment 2001-2005

75th Army Rangers 2001-2005

[Scoody Boo]

253. There is no...

James A. MacBeth, Jessie A. MacBeth, Jesse A. MacBeth, James MacBeth, Jessie MacBeth or Jesse MacBeth on any DOD site.

[Julius Civitatus]

217. Someone wants to "Dan Rather" possible war crimes -- careful

This may be all crap. Be very careful. Remember the Dan Rather fiasco, that nasty Rovian trick.

My take on this is very cynical, and unless I see compelling evidence to believe this guy, I say this is a set up.
Keep in mind that the Haditha massacre is about to reach critical mass, since it has been demonstrated it took place. Someone may want to pre-emptively disqualify any criticism of the actions of the US troops in Iraq. By disqualifying publicly this case, it may be used to disqualify any horror story coming out of Iraq, no matter how truthful.

Beware of the Rovian ratf#cking.

[Rex]

234. Someone verify this guy served. Shouldn't be to hard for some.

nt

[allalone]

238. maybe the picture is reversed, it happens

[-..__...]

241. In a video?

Even so, the lettering in the framed portrait reads correctly.

[pocket]

242. it's not revered

look at his name tag.

[Scoody Boo]

243. If this was so...

the button flap on his shirt would be facing the other way. And the flag would be backwards.

[pocket]

240. kick!

.

[misternormal]

244. Beret controversy solved...

Proper...



Improper...

[Scoody Boo]

245. Plus his beret obviously...

still has the liner in it. The first thing Rangers do with a new beret is take the liner out and soak the beret. You cannot get it to fold right if it has the liner.

[misternormal]

246. I was never a ranger, and never wore a beret, but...

I knew many rangers, airborne and special forces when I was in, and the first thing... the FIRST THING that they showed was pride in their uniform, and making sure that it was more reg. than anyone else...

[rman]

260. This guy may not be that proud any more,

feeling no need to wear his uniform properly.

I'm weary about this, but discrediting based only on the uniform isn't good enough for me.

[fun n serious]

263. Here it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessie_Macbeth

[theboss]

266. Aren't we tired of falling for shit yet?

Honestly.

[slackmaster]

268. More information on this obvious fake

http://hotair.com/archives/top-picks/2006/05/22/anti-wa...

[Julius Civitatus]

273. Well, that wingnut is already blaming the left for Jesse McBeth

See how quickly this happened?

The whole thing is a set up. I would even bet that Jesse guy was paid to put that show.

[slackmaster]

281. I agree with you - It has all the trappings of, well, a trap

Just like the "Karl Rove Indicted" stories.

[davepc]

272. And he has a rap sheet to boot: credit card fraud

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/james-macbeths-d... /


Party Name Date of Birth Party Address Court Case Number
1 JESSE ADAM MACBETH 03/21/1984 PIMA, AZ 85543 Pima Justice J-0502-CR-20040075
2 JESSE ADAM MACBETH 03/21/1984 Graham County Superior S-0500-CR-2004171


CASE DETAIL


Case Number: J-0502-CR-20040075 Case Category: Criminal Case Title: ST OF AZ VS JESSE ADAM MACBET
Court: Pima Justice Judge: DEWEY L BRYCE Filing Date: 03/23/2004 Disposition Date: 06/17/2004


Party Name: JESSE ADAM MACBETH Party Type: D 1 - DEFNDT/RESPNDT Date of Birth: 03/21/1984
Citation: CNONE
Count 1: FALSE REPORTING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT Disposition Date: 06/17/2004 Disposition: COMPL DISMISSED BY CTY ATTY
Count 2: FRAUDULENT USE OF CREDIT CARD Disposition Date: 06/17/2004 Disposition: BOUND OVER TO SUPERIOR COURT

[progressivebydesign]

277. He lives in Tacoma, Washington. That makes no sense. n/t

[davepc]

280. He's documented as being in Arizona

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:jO1WfQ4goigJ:www.as...

http://www.asuwebdevil.com/issues/2004/04/12/news/65749...

Jesse MacBeth told another story.

MacBeth, a 20-year-old U.S. soldier who recently returned from Iraq after sustaining a back injury, said Coffee Plantation banned him from the store in March for the way he was dressed -- in his training uniform.

He had been sipping coffee calmly when a store employee asked him to leave. He refused.

Management insisted that he leave even after he took out his military ID card. Security guards escorted him off the premises under threat of arrest if he returned.

He said he hoped the protest would disrupt the flow of customers into the store.

"If you cut down the customers a lot, then they won't keep their business going," MacBeth said. "That's the whole point, to let society know what's going on."

[progressivebydesign]

283. When I saw that Coffee Plantantion thing... I was suspicious.

Hmmm... his stories are getting more and more interesting, for lack of a better word.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

275. IT IS VERY STUPID TO ANALYZE THIS IMAGE. IT'S A PICTURE OF A PHOTO

SIMPLY HOLD A SIGN UP TO A MIRROR TO SEE WHAT I MEAN. THAT PHENOMENON CAUSES THE VIDEO INVERSION ISSUES. Some cameras compensate for image inversion but fail when it's a picture of a picture as in the video.

Windows platform media players typically use a system known as DirectShow to decode video files. As part of this system special filters can be installed, in order to handle additional video formats or add effects during decoding, for example. Unfortunately some filters can have undesired effects, such as inverting the video or commandeering DivX decoding from the genuine DivX decoder.

Upside down or mirrored video is commonly caused by these filters:

* Bicubic resize filter
Filename: bicubic_resizer.ax
Installed as part of many codec packs, this filter is perhaps most responsible for inverted video.

* G400 filter
Filename: divxg400.ax
Also installed as part of many codec packs, this filter can also invert the video.

* XviD filter
Filename: xvid.ax
Again, installed as part of many codec packs, the XviD filter can decode DivX video as inverted.

more info at: http://forums.divx.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/441101651...

this guy's LACK of being an effective speaker makes it more believable because if it was a lie, they'd have hired a better speaker.

[Ron Mexico]

279. Then how do you explain all of the discrepancies that have nothing

to do with inversion? The t-shirt? The pin-on (instead of sewn-on) rank? The way the sleeves are folded? The patch discrepancies?

This guy is a fraud and he's hurt the cause. Now when someone credible comes forth, he or she will get a lot more scrutiny.

Plus, as a vet myself, I am offended as all fucking hell at anyone making false claims about service time.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

285. and perhaps ron, you've answered your own questions

"Now when someone credible comes forth, he or she will get a lot more scrutiny." Reverse propaganda is a spooky image but certainly a possibility once we realize that our leaders consider this a "war of ideas." Who wins by making it obvious that this film is a lie? I know in my heart of hearts women and children are being killed by moral individuals who will speak out in greater numbers as time goes by.

[progressivebydesign]

278. Macbeth works with IVAW in Tacoma, Washington.

Alongside other veterans of the Iraq War, and widows of Iraq War veterans. While I am reserving judgment on his authenticity, it seems to me that the folks he has been working alongside for months, would obviously know if he was a fraud. Considergin Tacoma IS the home to Fort Lewis, an Army base. I think people are getting out of control here... someone posting something they swear is a criminal record for the guy from another state.

[DTinAZ]

284. it's been reported...

...that IVAW was reached by telephone today and said that Mr. Macbeth has resigned from the organization. Combine that with the removal of all information about badges and awards from the Military.com profile with his name on it, and the red flags are increasing.

DT

[Jeffersons Ghost]

287. 'reported" by who or what? DT of AZ?

on edit:

"At first I didn't understand what I was being offered, and then I didn't believe it. But I've made no secret that I live in New Orleans, and the caller knew of me through one of my writings here -- though I'm sworn not to say just which one.

The neighborhood is in the east, where the power is still only on near the Interstate and the phones aren't on at all. Three weeks of flooding and months of neglect have left the streets buckled and littered with hazards; I drove with a second spare tire in the back seat and, some distance from the nearest sign of re-emerging civilization, found the address I'd been given. There was nothing to set it apart from the others; they were all badly flooded, past the ceiling, and the neighborhood's prospects were so poor that nobody had even bothered to gut the houses and dump their contents on the street for collection. Nobody was collecting, and unlike other neighborhoods nobody knows whether there will be returnees.

Feeling extremely stupid, I knocked on the door. Just as I was ready to go back to my car the front door opened.

At first I didn't recognize her. The skin was deeply tanned, the famous blonde hair cropped short. She was wearing a tank top and loose jeans and tennis shoes, work clothes. Behind her, although it was not apparent from outside, the house had been gutted and cleaned.

"Miss Holloway, I presume," I said."

this is an online source, which "reported" on current stories.

[DTinAZ]

288. by other DUers

and now also corroborated by me, in that after trying to reach IVAW on the phone for the last 24 hours, they finally picked up and confirmed that he resigned from the org. Believe it or don't...your call. They're a bit overwhelmed by all of this and so haven't published a disclaimer on their website...yet. I talked to the producer at Pepperspray Productions this morning, alerting him to all the bad stuff that's surfaced about the subject of their short video, and he seems to be somewhat in denial, even when I pointed out that there's a bench warrant out for Jesse's arrest.

DT

[Jeffersons Ghost]

290. LIES, PROPAGANDA OR WHATEVER they're arresting him for using free speech!

or what's the excuse the propaganda machine uses this time? It all boils down the same in the basic human psyche, after the link forms. It's a "war of ideas." Who wins this battle in your personal mental battlefield.

[DTinAZ]

291. uh, no...

...it appears that they're going to arrest him for violating a court order of protection and assault.

DT

[Jeffersons Ghost]

293. and appearance is everything in a "war of ideas," isn't it?

check history or current events to see the charges dictatorships make against critics of the regime. what's the difference? where's tangible evidence? After discharge I threw my uniform away and regretted it after I finally bought another old Navy P-coat. BTW, when I wore it later, I didn't worry about how the badges were attached. Some guys stitched flags on the back of their combat jackets; upside down. defiantly non-reg, I'd say.

[DTinAZ]

295. *plonk*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plonk

[DTinAZ]

289. the video will be removed from peacefilms.org "ASAP"

according to the owner of the website...see this post for details:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

DT

[Jeffersons Ghost]

292. what a blitzkrieg hush job!

the propaganda machine moves so fast these days, it's damn spooky! what do you think of that little magic trick DUers?

[dailykoff]

294. Works every time. (n/t)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

297. so how much left wing propaganda can you kill in a week dailykoff?

[dailykoff]

299. If only RW propaganda got this kind of scrutiny

anywhere, ever.

[tabasco]

301. Right. We should just accept whatever lies support our world view.

That is the motto of a dittohead.

[dailykoff]

303. Unfortunately he isn't lying

about anything that matters. Listen to what he's saying and stop getting hung up on his damn beanie and merit badges.

For pete's sake, you'd think this was a freakin' fashion show.

[davepc]

304. exactly! Its the truthiness of what he says!

And as we know from watching the Colbert Report, truthiness trumps everything else!

[deaniac21]

306. You are ABSOLUTELY correct. His story is fake but it is also

accurate.

[Bouncy Ball]

308. No, it's not a fashion show.

But how you wear certain things and where you wear them are of utmost importance in the military. Everything means something and even its placement has significance.

Therefore, it IS a huge tip-off when you see someone claiming to be a veteran who doesn't even have things right that someone who has been in basic training would have right.

What he says probably IS true. Maybe not the details, but I have no doubt there are ugly, nasty things that have gone on in this war and that are still going on. War is not a Sunday picnic, after all, and anyone who thinks things like this do not ever go on in war needs to take off their rose-colored glasses and have a peek at the reality of things. This is one of the big reasons why some veterans are so against wars. They KNOW what it's like. They know how horrifically ugly it is.

But this guy? Not a veteran.

[tabasco]

302. So you think it is "left wing propaganda" to lie about war crimes.

Do you think the left wing supports lies against military units and trumped-up war crimes?

That's not the left-wing - that's the stupid wing.

[wicket]

296. Thanks!

[LibertyorDeath]

298. IVAW Statement on MacBeth Video

IVAW Statement on MacBeth Video

Iraq Veterans Against the War recently learned of a video interview with Jesse MacBeth that directs viewers to IVAW’s website and phone number. IVAW was not made aware of the creation of this video program and our input on it was never sought by its producers. Jesse MacBeth is not a spokesperson for IVAW and any claims made by MacBeth about his service have not been verified. We are currently investigating these claims and will have a full statement pending its resolution.

http://www.ivaw.net/

[Bouncy Ball]

300. Fascinating thread.

I have to back up what some people on this thread have been saying about the uniform and such. My husband served in some of the same units this guy claims to have served in and immediately spotted all the problems. In fact, when I first showed him the picture in this thread (the framed pic), he thought it was some kid "pretending."

If you think about it, if this guy was a set up, it's a clever, though ultimately unsuccessful way for the reich-wing war supporters to discredit anyone who claims anything untoward is going on in Iraq.

Unfortunately for them, there ARE people on the left who are serving and who have served and therefore can spot a fake from ten paces. The black shirt immediately caught my eye. I mean, WTF?

HOWEVER, that being said, remember, they are trying to discredit the notion that anything BAD is being done in Iraq.

Why would they want to discredit such a notion so badly?

Yep. Because these things DO happen. Some may think a veteran's spouse would be loathe to believe such things. Actually I am probably more likely to believe these horrible things happen. My husband doesn't sugarcoat things, he knows how things go.

War is an ugly, nasty business.

But this guy in the video? I doubt he ever was in the military.

Doesn't mean war isn't still an ugly, nasty business.

[LibertyorDeath]

305. Thank you Bouncy wise words

That means alot to me.

[Iblis]

307. Now What?

Where's Nance Gregg? Anybody else?

Kick! Kick! Kick!

L

[BikeWriter]

310. Mr. MacBeth has a forged DD-214.

http://justcitizens.blogspot.com/2006/05/macbeths-dd-21...

[BikeWriter]

311. Man who bragged of murdering Iraqis debunked by Army

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article...

[BikeWriter]

312. 54 VOTES FOR A FUCKING LIE! That fucking sucks!

[Moderator]

313. Locking

We dislike being the 'truth squad' but this story has been thoroughly debunked.