I don't mind if they check out my phone calls

[mdmc]

I really don't. What bothers me is that they are checkin us out, then claiming that they "really don't care where Osoma Bin Laden is".

This NSA bullshit is making us less safe by using limited terrorist fighting resources to do what is essentially political dirty work.

This spying effort is not making us safer. It is hurting our image and hurting our ability to fight terror.

Just like the war, this is a policy that makes us less safe in the name of fighting terror. This makes me :mad:

[ginnyinWI]

1. it's important to care

For one thing, it's part of a slippery slope; when they can do one thing, then they move on to the next invasion of our privacy and rights.

Also it is clearly illegal, unconstitutional. If they are going to do something like this, then they'd better make it legal first. We are a nation of laws, not men--at least we were. I think we will be again.

[mdmc]

4. and it makes us less safe

ok.. i care... :)

[Bake]

2. I have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of

BUT I FUCKING CARE!!!! You'd better believe I damn well care!! Why? Because it's WRONG WRONG WRONG. And ILLEGAL. It positively reeks!

That idiot Kyl (R) was saying in Congress yesterday, "this is crazy ... we have to get infromation about THE ENEMY ..." Does he even have the first clue how Freudian that slip was?? The tens of millions of Americans ARE THE ENEMY to Bushco!

Oh, and Agent Mike -- go fuck yourself.

Bake

[mdmc]

12. good points bake

we are the enemy and that is super sad

[Loge23]

3. Your point is well taken, but...

you SHOULD mind that the government is spying on you without a court order. I'd be pissed WITH a court order!
We are Americans. We are a free people. We have controls in place to prevent a governement, even or own, from limiting this freedom.
Millions of Americans have fought and died for this freedom.
Don't give 'em an inch.

[mdmc]

14. good points loge

peace. i won't give them an inch

[spanone]

5. I care. You bet I care. It's nobody's business. Period.

[dogday]

6. He who trades Liberty for Security--deserves neither

Since there is no oversight on this program, I would say they could spy on just about anyone they wanted to including political opponents, etc... Would make winning elections a hell of a lot harder... They can spew this crap about they don't hear anything, but this dog is not a believer of anything they say.. If they say that, then believe the opposite of it....

[Avalux]

7. Whether or not you care isn't the point - it's unconstitutional.

Personal feelings one way or the other are irrelevant, we need to focus on the law and the fact that unwarranted invasion of our privacy is a violation of our rights as Americans. Period.

The government invokes the words terrorism and national security as an excuse to break the law. Period.

[longship]

8. They're also staring into your bedroom at night.

Do you mind that?

The two things are identically the same thing.

[Inland]

9. It's one thing to trade liberty for security.......

people can argue about that. But where's the security? Turns out, we didn't get anything at all in the trade, so it's not about stopping terror at all. It's only about what we are losing in liberty.

[MADem]

10. Here's why it WON'T make us safer, in a nutshell

OK, your name is Al Kayda. You want to stir up some shit with your pals who have blown in from some unnamed Middle Eastern country. Of course, you don't want to get caught in the NSA phone web, do you?? How to get around it???

1. Phone cards. Tim McVeigh used them to great effect. Be sure to pay cash, now!! No debit cards!! Oh, and buy 'em at a raggy convenience store, with a surveillance system that's at least 20 years old...better still, send a BUM in to buy them for you, and pay him the cost of a bottle of Mad Dog for his trouble!!! Never use the same pay phone twice, now! And toss the card once you've used it, and never use sequential cards.

2. Tosser phones. Popular with drug dealers. Again, get a BUM to buy them for you! In the trash after you've made your call!

3. This one's a bit tricky, but can be done. Case a neighborhood, and figure out which houses have NO PEOPLE in them during the day (or at night). Break in CAREFULLY, and use the phone! Even better, go to a vacation area and break in to a cottage and use their phone--that'll screw 'em up. If it's in "vacation mode" where you can only dial out locally, you'll need a phone card, or, if you can find a phone bill, call up the phone company, give 'em the account number, and tell 'em ya need the phone activated. Then, DIAL AWAY! Yo, Osama! Howzit hangin'???

4. Tap into someone else's line. Best done during the workday, or in the wee hours of the morning. Park your windowless van on the street with a fully charged set of wireless phones. You'll need a bunch of 'em, but perseverence will eventually pay off. Keep changing the codes until you get a dial tone. Yeehaw! Alternatively, tap into the hard line of some sucker...now, what's the international calling code for Saudi Arabia????

Basically, this is the electronic equivalent of tossing Grandma's stuff and making her get out of the wheelchair and remove her old lady shoes at the TSA counter, while NO ONE IS CHECKING what goes in the HOLD of the damn plane. It's BULLSHIT. Where there is a will, there's a way. And holding the phoning habits of Americans in a creepy database is just gonna make us do one thing, and one thing only--develop increasingly technical crypto gear, available commercially, to keep these shitheels from listening in on things as mundane as calls to pharmacists or talking to the bank to resolve that overdraft, to conversations as furtive as calls to illicit lovers or that uncomfortable lab report from one's doctor.

Either that, or it's back to smoke signals. Welcome to Luddite America...Bastards!

[Elector]

11. Six Degrees

So the NSA identifies a phone # that made a call to Iraq.

Then they pull every phone # that ever connected to that. And so on and so on and so on.

The sixty-whatever percent who think this is all ok oughta be forced to watch a Twilight Zone marathon, maybe then they'd get it and think twice before they say "if you ain't doin' nuthin' wrong, you ain't got nuthin' to worry about" I still can't believe people actually say that out loud.

[newyawker99]

16. Hi Elector!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Coexist]

13. I care. If they think I am up to something - get a damn warrant

and you are welcome to see how boring a citizen I am. But, have probable cause, and get a friggin' warrant.

The law is the law, dammit.

[shance]

15. MdMc, this Administration is creating the terror. They are the ones

creating the wars and perpetuating them.

Wake up.

[mdmc]

18. i'm up

im awake. i care

[LSK]

17. i do mind, if America is no longer free, what is the point???

I WILL NOT SURRENDOR MY FREEDOM JUST BECAUSE OF THE BOOGIEMAN. FUCK THAT!

[mdmc]

19. thanks for the post lsk

i often ask what is the point. fight the fight.