Wisconsin Teacher Fired For Having In-Vitro Procedure

[heidiho]

Catholic Hypocrisy At It's Best - Respect for Life, my ass!


Kelly and Eric Romenesko and the Roman Catholic Church agree that childbirth is a gift of life.


A disagreement between the couple and the church, however, over the morality of in-vitro fertilization has cost Kelly Romenesko her job with the ACES/Xavier school system and the Catholic church a lifelong member.


The Romeneskos, of Buchanan, tried unsuccessfully for five years to start a family before they turned to in-vitro fertilization.


When Kelly, then a French teacher for ACES/Xavier, the system that runs Appleton's seven Catholic schools, told her boss in September 2004 she might need time off to undergo the procedure, she expected no problems. Though she was a lifelong Catholic, she had no idea the church opposes in-vitro fertilization.


"You have a person who is, by all the information I've got, a fine person and a fine teacher, but for the fact that her public announcement (to her employer) of her intentions (to become pregnant via in-vitro fertilization) was in direct violation of the teachings the church feels its youth should be taught," said ACES/Xavier attorney Gregory Gill Sr.


Link:


http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060509/APC0101/605090635/1003/APC01

[electron_blue]

1. Wow! I didn't know the Catholic church officialy opposed iv anyway

[eallen]

2. The anti-choicers want to criminalize in vitro fertilization.

This is a religious issue. Even though the goal of in vitro fertilization is to make a baby, it involves technology that in their view goes "where man is not meant to go." In vitro fertilization wastes some embryos for each one that is successfully implanted. As does natural fertilization. But doing it outside the womb forces the fetus fetishists to face the absurdity of viewing those embryos as people, which their theology requires.

[electron_blue]

5. I was aware of the whole unused eggs problem, but not that the Catholic

church is officially against it. I found myself wondering if the Catholic church is really against a lot of things they are said to be against once I learned that the Catholic Church was officially supporting Kerry over Bush in 2004. Most people don't know that.

[Goblinmonger]

9. Do you have a source

for that? "Official" support of Kerry over Bush by the Vatican? I missed that one. I did know that cardinals in the Vatican said supporters of abortion (directed at Kerry) should be denied communion. http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2004/04/20040427_a_main.asp

[electron_blue]

24. I'll get a source for you. They said when you looked at all the issues

important to the church, Kerry was stronger than Bush for them.

[eallen]

11. The Catholic Church officially opposes in vitro fertilization. Cite here.

Here's some official gobble-de-goop on how the Church views IVF:

http://catholicinsight.com/online/church/vatican/article_475.shtml

Here's a news article on a teach who was fired from a Catholic school because she conceived through IVF:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/14543462.htm

BTW, I think the Catholic Church is within their legal right to hire teachers that meet their religious requirements, and fire those who don't. I also think the Catholic Church's views on IVF are one-step removed from a witch doctor's.

[REP]

39. More Cites

Pope John XX111, Encyclical Mater et Magistra
Instruction on Bioethics, Donum Vitae. Sacred Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. (1987).
Pope Paul V1, Encyclical Humanae Vitae

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Most people don't know it, because I'll bet you anything it's not true.

But if you can back up that assertion ("the Catholic Church was officially supporting Kerry over Bush in 2004") You can officially watch me eat my hat.

[electron_blue]

18. Okay, I'll get the link for you. And you find your hat.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Still Waitin'.

:hi:

[REP]

38. Posted In wrong Place

[Warren DeMontague]

41. That's in response to the assertion that the Cath. Church "officially

backed Kerry in the 2004 election."

Not that they officially oppose IV fertilization, which I have very little doubt that they do.

[JVS]

20. I doubt there is any official position on the elections

because they know that in the us if you take official positions on elections, you'll get taxed.

Thus while a small church or a pastor somewhere might be able to say "Vote for W or burn", no denomination as a whole, particularly not one as wealthy and visible as the RCC is going to shoot themselves in the foot by taking an official position

[JVS]

6. According to the Wikipedia article on IV fertiliztion

"The Roman Catholic Church is opposed to in vitro fertilization in all instances and advocates that infertility is a call from God to adopt children. It "infringe(s) the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage."<6> Also, embryos are discarded in the process causing them to die. Some estimates of the numbers of embryos killed reach 6 million, and the Catholic faith sees embryos as human lives with the same rights as all others. Therefore, the faith views this procedure as always unacceptable. However, it allows the use of more natural techniques which seek to treat the underlying causes of infertility."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_fertilization#Religious_objections

[MountainLaurel]

16. At the Jesuit U. where I work

IVF or other "reproductive technologies" are not covered by the health insurance plan (neither are conceptives or selective reduction, for those who pay for the IVF on their own)

[electron_blue]

35. Our state insurance plan doesn't pay for IVF either.

And the only hospital in our town will not tie your tubes, you have to go 70 miles away if you want that. Catholic hospital, dontcha know.

[Dorian Gray]

42. Yes, they do...

Primarily because many fertilized eggs may go unused or be destroyed.

[Javaman]

3. And another Democrat is born! if she wasn't already one. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. I was under the impression that was illegal...

under federal anti-discrimination laws.

[eallen]

12. It has to be allowed, under the 1st amendment.

The free practice of religion includes the ability to run religious schools, which requires the ability to hire and fire on the basis of religious criteria. You might argue that she was teaching French, not catechism. The counterargument is that they want a faculty that adheres to Catholic doctrine.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Baloney.

If you're going to employ people in the united states you still have to follow employment laws. You can't kick black people out of your diner because it's against your religion.

[eallen]

21. Not baloney. The issue is relevance to religious purpose.

There is a grey boundary, as there is with all such religious issues. A church likely would have a harder time justifying discrimination in the hiring of a janitor, than it does in hiring a pastor or a teacher. Which is why your diner example isn't on mark. This isn't about businesses that are open to the general public. This is about religious institutions: churches and schools. Yes, a business can be required not to discriminate against blacks. Or Catholics. A religious church or school is quite different. You should note that Bob Jones University, until fairly recently, forbid interracial dating by its student body. It did not drop that due to any legal difficulty.

[slackmaster]

13. She might have an ADA claim

Infertility could be a disability. I'm not sure.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

34. I bet she does.

I think "infertility" is a medical condition that treatment is provided for. I don't see how this is any different than a man who has Erectile Disfunction who wanted treatment.

[Tsiyu]

7. What a strange religion that one is

I will never understand why people look for approval from man-made rules. Where in the Bobble is in-vitro fertilization considered a sin? Are hysterectomies a sin? Is Viagra a sin? Cesaerean sections? Penis-enhancement?


Hell, in the Bobble, men had a bunch of wives and concubines. Maybe we should go back to that model? Except can we make it where women get to have many husbands and male concubines, too?

(I want a couple husbands to work and pay the bills, one to work on the cars, one to work on the house, one to hang with the kids and drive them around and one to party with....can I do that, Biblically?)

[madrchsod]

8. i don`t know maybe the church thinks

that priests molesting young boys is preferable to having a woman having a baby.

[BlooInBloo]

10. The more I see of this, the more I realize how 100% correct Gloria Steinem

has been lo these many years (and I'm a bit ashamed to not have caught on to it before).

It really IS all about male control of female sexuality.

[kevinbgoode]

14. The archaic Catholic Church used to also refuse to perform

c-sections. . .wonder how many women died during childbirth that the Church has never done penance for?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. Itr that's true, they would have killed my daughter and possibly my wife

The umbilical cord was making two turna around their neck.

God must be really displeased at the existence of that wonderful 5yo.

[kevinbgoode]

31. My parents told me about that old rule of the Church

Catholic hospitals, apparently, used to refuse c-sections - perhaps allowing them only to save children - however, there were mothers who died in childbirth.

My mother, who is elderly, told me of relatives she knew as a child who were frantic about not going to a Catholic-operated hospital.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. When are people gonna wake up to the fact that the agenda of these folks

is absolutely, bat-shit NUTS?

No Abortion. No IV Fertilization. No Legal Birth Control. No sex outside of marriage. "Biblical Punishments" (AKA death by stoning, most likely) for "crimes" such as "unchastity", masturbation, blasphemy, disrespecting one's parents, or homosexuality. A total junking of all science, in favor of teaching kids that the Earth is 6,000 years old.


Oh.. But, wait, I forgot- these are the very same "values voters" we supposedly need to bend over backwards to "court" so that Diebold will let us win elections, again. :crazy:

[ComerPerro]

23. Wow. A Catholic screwed over by Catholic doctrines and policy

what's next? A story about a Republican whose life was ruined by Republican policies?


I gotta say, I don't feel sorry for her at all...

[heidiho]

25. That's not really fair - she just wanted to have a baby

I don't think most Catholics know that Church policy prohibits IVF. I know alot of Catholics who have had that procedure.

Should all teachers and anyone else affiliated with the Catholic Church be fired for using any kind of contraception? That's also against Church teachings. Remember, this is the institution that turned the other way when their priests were molesting thousands of kids.

[ComerPerro]

27. I'm not saying its right or that I agree with it. I'm just not suprised

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Most Catholics use birth control, too.

I know a 34 year old woman who got married in the Catholic Church last year. Her husband was late 30s. Both successful professionals, first marriage. Does anyone HONESTLY think they had never had sex up until that point, with each other or anyone else????

The Church does, apparently.

And I agree with you about the shameful track record re: Molestation. ANY OTHER organization which had engaged in widespread conspiracy to protect pedophile criminals would not only be under indictment by governments worldwide, it would have been run out of every single city in this country by torch-wielding, angry townsfolk. But, as always, "special rules" apply to the Church.

[JVS]

29. I'm not even Catholic, and I knew that because the guy on TV was talking..

about it. If you want to be part of a religion, learn about it a little bit for Christ's sake!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. The HELL?

I don't care if Jesus himself comes down and screams "THOU SHALT NOT DO IVF" from Mount Everest. That was evil.

[Plaid Adder]

26. The Catholic position on fertility

is that God decides who conceives and who doesn't. Anything that attempts to control conception is therefore infringing on God's mandate. So, no birth control (apart from the rhythm method, which doesn't involve devices or medication) and no alternative insemination, in vitro fertilization, et cetera. If you or your spouse has a fertility problem, obviously God meant for you not to have children, so you live with it.

I can't understand why this woman didn't know that--you figure most Catholics do--and it's too bad she didn't figure it out before she told everyone at work what she was doing, but I'm glad she's quitting the church over it.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Impeachdubya's position on the Catholic Church:

A corrupt, potentially criminal yet extremely wealthy and powerful organization which -due to its history and track record, from the inquisition and Giordano Bruno to pedophile priests- has no moral basis upon which to lecture anyone about anything-- most certainly not their sex lives, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever.

[REP]

40. Sounds About Right!

The idea of celibate old men counseling anyone on sex has always struck me as ridiculous.

[slackmaster]

36. Their logic never ceases to amaze and amuse me

...<blah blah blah>... ...So, no birth control (apart from the rhythm method, which doesn't involve devices or medication... ...<blah blah blah>...

The whole house of cards falls apart when you ask:

"If that's the case, why did God give us the ability to figure out how to <insert appropriate verb phrase here>?" The proscription against using devices or medication does not appear anywhere in the Bible AFAIK.

I can't understand why this woman didn't know that--you figure most Catholics do--...

A lot of Catholics find themselves in similar situations. Their doctrine is non-rational and capriciously applied. The prohibitions against fertility enhancement fly in the face of their long-standing interpretation of the command to "Be fruitful and multiply" as meaning have as many babies as you can.

[heidiho]

33. Mrs. Romenesko's hearing now postponed until September

Link below:

http://wluk.com/common/article.shtml?article_id=1147300370017160