Just between us down here in the clubhouse....

[crispini]

what do ya'll think of the Truthout story? Especially those like Bunny and Patsy who have been following it closely?

I don't know what to think myself. I took it with a grain of salt but Truthout et al seem to be really standing by it. It makes me wonder if we are getting some kind of sniff of SOMETHING moving behind the scenes, but what that is, I don't know. :shrug:

[WolverineDG]

1. We're in the same boat, Crispy

I would love to believe the story is true. I hope the silence we're getting right now is merely the silence before the storm.

dg

[Botany]

2. I would not trust anything Rove & company put out.

Distract & Attack at the other side's strong point .... Classic Rove.

Texas 1994 Ann Richards was the one with the drinking problem ... not W.
2004 bush AWOL story Got people talking about Dan Rather instead of
bush going AWOL to miss his pee test
2004 Kerry 3 purple hearts, bronze star, & silver star ..... Kerry shot a kid in the
back and wasn't really a hero
2005 Cheney shot a man in the face after drinking .... but the story became about
how the story got to a local paper first
Al Gore never said "I invented the internets." but that was the story that was sold to
the American people
NSA spying 65% of Americans support the phone taps .... not really but that is the story that got
out
In the 1980s he planted bugs in his own candidate's office and called in the press and blamed the
other side.
Ohio 2004 election ... the problems were with democratic voter fraud ...... not all that other stuff.
besides people of faith came out to support W .... why don't you like Jesus?
Rove outed a CIA agent and her secret front company to R. Novak (the very same person Rove got
fired because of in 1992 by H.W. for planting stories w/) so it is Jason Leopold & Truth Out's fault.

Time will tell but I still think J L & Truth out are pretty much on the mark.

My Guess is Rove is singing like a bird to save his own ass.

[RevCheesehead]

3. I dunno.

Regarless of the Truthiness of it all, I must express my disappointment in the manner in which this story has been dealt with on DU, with BOTH sides displaying some shameful behavior. At this point, I almost don't care. I just wish we were better than this. :(

[crispini]

4. Now THAT I will heartily agree with.

It's a sad fact of internet life that people find it really easy to be assholes to people they can't see. I think it brings out the worst in us. I can understand why.... after all, they're not right THERE with you in the room... but I, personally, will always try to treat even my "screen buddies" with the same respect I'd treat a "real" person. :loveya:

[bunny planet]

6. It has seemed to bring out the worst in people of both opinions,

as to what happened, hasn't it? I just read a lot of it and shook my head. I think people are just fried from it all, and so tense waiting for something, anything, to happen. No excuse for the name calling, judgemental behavior, and downright superciliousness that went on and is going on.

I'm staying in the clubhouse till it stops.

[RevCheesehead]

7. That's one wise bunny!

I prefer "supercalifragaliciousexpialidocious-ness" myself! :7

[Greylyn58]

13. Amen Rev

I have pretty much stayed away from all the threads on this subject because it is obviously a crazed subject for alot of people.

Speaking for myself, I want to wait and watch. Letting the story play out...of course hoping for what all DU wants to see. That Rove is arrested for his crimes.

[bunny planet]

5. You are right Crispi, I do follow the story closely

I've been reading and reading, oy, my eyes are tired from it. I honestly don't know what to think. Leopold's history of being, shall we say, creative in his reporting history is troubling, but Will's standing by him really convinced me for awhile. I really do think something was about to happen, not quite sure why it didn't. I kind of think it's likely that Rove is squealing like the stuck piggy that he is, and that Fitz is zoning in on Darth Cheney now. At least that is the only thing I'd like to think happened to keep Fitz from indicting Rove after FIVE grand jury appearances and countless lying and obfuscating. There are now rumors flying about that Abu Gonzales somehow came in at the last minute and put the kabosh on Fitz's Rove indictment. That doesn't seem likely at all, highly unlikely since he had to recuse himself too, but there are already two threads on DU about it and one diary up at Daily Kos. I really get most of my info. at FireDogLake, they are the best for Plameology. I do think that Fitz has definitely uncovered a lot more than one nasty cover-up and conspiracy in his thorough sifting through the facts. There are lots of loose ends to tie. I have faith in him. Just instinctively feel like he's the real deal.

[crispini]

21. Well, from your mouth to God's ears!

Hopefully ...:thumbsup:

[CC]

8. I read but as far as

going into any of the threads, I stay away, far away. :scared: I think he got info from someone but many different things could of happened. Rove could of used his tactics to try to discredit liberal sites before hand, things could of changed that put a temporary halt to any indictments along with all previous suggestions.:shrug: My hope is Fitz found out that he had more things to indict Rove on and is making sure he dots his i's and crosses his t's and doesn't miss anything. Also it wouldn't be the first time a reporter was mislead or got a story wrong, they are human so not going to try hanging someone if that happened.


:hi: to all.

[Berry Cool]

9. While I believe something will happen someday...

...I see no evidence that it is happening now. Yet they had so, so many people trusting Truthout and believing it had.

I believe that Truthout, if it wants to be taken seriously, has to be held to as high a standard as any other outlet purporting to be a source of journalism. When Leopold first came out with this story, there was much celebration, and much bashing of the "MSM" who were supposedly either ignoring it or attempting to quash it. Now it looks as if the story has nothing behind it. It was very specific as to what had happened, and now I think it can safely be said that none of those things has happened.

Whenever people believe what you report, you have a serious responsibility on your hands. You can't have it both ways. You can't say "I am better than the MSM, I scooped them all because I am a brave blogger!" and then, when your story fails to pan out, refuse to take the heat for it, just as the MSM would have to. Can you imagine what a laughingstock any of the networks would become if they had reported this story and nothing had happened and they were steadfastly sticking to it like this? There would be headlines all over the place. Columns written. Reporters and anchors mocked and ridiculed.

If Leopold and Truthout want to really be playing with the big boys, they have to accept what comes with being trusted by some people MORE than the big boys. And that means that if they blew it, they have to own up to it.

LIke humans.

[Patsy Stone]

10. The question I have to keep returning to is:

Why do Jason Leopold, Will and Truthout want to sandbag their careers?

It makes no sense.

I have more to say, but I have to go to work. As to DU, well, we do this all the time. Bev Harris, anyone?

See you later, kittens!

p.s. And Botany's right: Now is not the time to start believing the noise machine. :)

[Botany]

11. Did I ever tell you that you are my Fav EDV?

"p.s. And Botany's right: Now is not the time to start believing the noise machine."

[SharonRB]

12. I'm with you, Pats

I still think they're right, unless they were intentionally fed bad information to discredit them. I'm just in standby mode until something breaks -- and I do think it will break fairly soon. If Rove is squealing and they get Cheney instead of him, I can't say I'll be terribly disappointed!

[crispini]

19. Ooo... Very Good Point!

Well done!

[Catchawave]

14. Hey Crispi.....

I stopped following right/left news sources since Raw Story had me up all night waiting for Bush to take a poop, and Truthout questioned my "liberalism" for not believing that Marines are begging for food on the streets of Baghdad.

As for the right, I'm a commie-pinko.

I'm waiting for the Fitz of July right now. :hi: In the meantime, I keep sending great DU links to KO and staff, since they're paid to check this stuff out :loveya:

[Berry Cool]

15. I think they were fed bad information

by people who knew they were so willing and wanting to believe it, and so badly desirous of a big "scoop," that they would swallow it hook, line and sinker. And that's exactly what they did.

It's too bad.

Real journalists know that they have to serve the truth...not fall into the trap of believing what they want to believe.

Now what I want to know is: Why aren't they outing their sources? They said they would. But they're not.

They're not doing anything they said they would. They're just stringing people along, I think.

[Patsy Stone]

16. So, more about me...

Questions:

1) Back in the days of Libby's indictment, Fitz was about to ask for an indictment of Rove, but Luskin came in at the 11th hour to talk about Vivack. Is it possible that Fitz has one (several?) indictment(s) already sealed from then, maybe not about Luskin/Rove/Cooper? I have to go back and read.

2) If Rove is squealing, it's against Cheney, and Fitz needs more in his hand than one count of perjury to make Rove do that.

3) I don't really know what's happened at Truth Out. I just don't think they'd openly sabotage themselves in a most spectacular way in such a small arena. I believe they knew what they were saying at the time. I don't know what else has happened. Except that now that Fitz is done with Libby from last week maybe we'll see him on TV this week.

:loveya:

[bunny planet]

17. One can only hope.

I would love to see Fitz call a press conference this week to give us some more good news.
I want these creeps to be taken off the playing field NOW, not after the election.
I know Fitz is famous for taking his time and being thorough but this is getting dicier by the day. They have to be stopped before they literally kill again.
I don't want the next I word we're all talking about to be Iran.
I'd much prefer a different I word, that ends with mpeachment.

[Patsy Stone]

18. Amen!

It seems to me that if Fitz was gonna let him off the hook, he wouldn't be back for a fifth visit. Five? No indictment? What keeps making him return? I think he's trying to 'splain away some lies, and I don't think the jury's buyin'.

They must be stopped.

[crispini]

20. Nice analysis.

:thumbsup: