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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:34 AM
Original message
Are there in other Buddhist types out there. I have a question.
Are you all vegetarian. I keep trying to completely get off meat but I never seem to make it.

How do you handle that?
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. My studies in Buddhism coincided with my going veggie.
Edited on Wed Apr-29-09 01:46 PM by Ignis
But many (most?) Buddhists believe that the Buddha was not vegetarian, did not espouse vegetarianism, and did not say (and thus, it's not in the sutras) that one must be vegetarian to obtain enlightenment.

Personally, my own path showed me a dramatic conflict between Right Action / Right Livelihood and killing animals purely for taste. Because I do not think that eating animal flesh is necessary to live as a human being -- and numerous studies (cf. The China Study, etc.) and almost 20 years of being vegan seem to support that hypothesis -- I would only be eating meat for selfish, temporal, sensory reasons.

In my own ethical calculus, the suffering caused by eating meat outweighs the enjoyment I receive from the taste of meat. I don't question others' decisions along this path, but I do think that Buddhism requires at least considering the ethical implications of one's diet...just as one would consider the implications of any other action.

I hope that helps. :hi: You might also wish to cross-post this in the Veggie forum, as there are many ethical vegetarians there who probably have good insight into this choice--even if they're not Buddhist.

(FLAME-RETARDANT NOTE: I'm not bashing meat-eaters. Everyone must make their own choices, and this was simply the path to my own choice in this matter. I don't wish to weigh in on anyone else's dietary choices.)
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Some more info:
Lots of good veggie Buddhist information at the following link:
http://www.shabkar.org /

This site has a pro-veggie agenda, but it has some great scholarship in the way of quotes from the sutras, papers written on the subject by teachers, differences between the various traditions/lineages, etc.

Hope that helps. :)
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Im pescitarian - was lacto ovo for a long time
You might also like this site that has a large Buddhist base of posters of all backgrounds:

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=idx

There is a veggie section there too... from my understanding Buddha's last meal was Pork and a Monk can eat meat if its given to him but not prepared specifically for him.

Like all things in Buddhism study it out in your mind and follow what you feel is right - you can always change your actions in the future if you find you are happier one way or the other. I was a vegetarian before I found Buddhism (I consider myself a Modern Theravadin - most of them eat meat on some level outside of the Monks).

I eat fish and dairy now and have not had any meat outside of that for 15 years... it was a gradual process for me, I just felt healthier not eating it.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Wasn't that the meal that killed him?
Didn't he die of food poisoning?

But you can get sick from eating vegetable stuff, too.

Part of my problem is that I don't cook. And it is really hard to eat around here in the middle of cow country without eating meat. Not many places offer good vegetarian food - at least not around me. I get stuck with baked potatoes and mac and cheese.
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Yes - thats the story - however as you say any food could do that
Edited on Fri May-15-09 02:25 PM by FreeState
THere is a great thread on all of this over on e-sangha but you have to sign up to see it.

It is very hard in Cow country I know first hand - it takes time to get the hang of it but eventually you will find the places that work best for your diet. Sorry I cant be of much more help there! I use to order hamburgers without the meat - or even salads a lot LOL.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. idn't make it. I just got so hungry that I went out and got a hamburger.
There were a total of 2 non-meat dinners in the frozen food section. One was noodles and marinara sauce and the other was rice and and egg roll. If I eat salad I am still has hungry as when I started and almost all of the salads available here have some sort of meat in them. The only other alternative is just a little dinner salad.

I will try again.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. My husband is a Buddhist and he eats meat.
Nothing can be killed specifically for him, though. For example, he can eat clams at a restaurant that has frozen clams, but he can't eat clams at a restaurant that has fresh clams.

I'm not a Buddhist, but I am a vegetarian.

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mtf80123 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. By following the Precepts of course....
# 1. Do not kill
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mtf80123 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Of course some will attempt to justify killing....
Edited on Tue May-05-09 04:28 AM by mtf80123
But in the end.... it is still killing... and Karma increases. Spiralling into an everlasting whirl-pool of existence from one reality to another.

There is no salvation without compasion for all living beings
~ Buddha~

PS. I handle Vegetarianism just fine.
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mtf80123 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. 1. Do not Kill
Edited on Tue May-05-09 05:21 AM by mtf80123
One must not deliberately kill any living creatures, either by committing the act oneself, instructing others to kill, or approving of or participating in act of killing. It is a respect to others' lives.

One should not deprive others (animals not excluded) of the right to live. If one is hurt or killed, one's family, relatives, friends will suffer. It is the cause of rebirth in Three Evil Paths. The effect of killing to the performer are brevity of life, ill health, handicapped and fear.

In observing the first precept, one tries to protect life whenever possible. Furthermore, one cultivates the attitude of loving kindness to all beings by wishing that they may be happy and free from harm.

Five conditions of panatipata (Killing)

1. The being must be alive.
2. There must be the knowledge that it is a live being.
3. There must be an intention to cause death.
4. An act must be done to cause death.
5. There must be death, as the result of the said act.

If all the said five conditions are fulfilled, this precept is violated.


In the Flower Adornment Sutra, it says that

For all bad Karma created in the past,
Based upon beginningless greed, hatred and delusion,
And born of body, mouth and mind,
I now repent and reform.

It is the well known Repentance Verse in Buddhism. In Buddhism, the distinction between what is good and what is bad is simple. It hinges on the intention or motivation from which an action originates. The deed which is associated with greed/attachment, hatred/ill will, delusion/stupidity is evil.

Greed, hatred and delusion are called the Three Poisons of the Mind... or Three Evil Roots, which are the primary source of all evil deeds. It is these "Three Poisons of the Mind" that create all bad Karma, resulting "all" kinds of suffering in accordance with the "Principle of Cause and Effect". The Three Poisons are also obstacles to the attainment of good Karma. Thus we have to abandon them by all means.


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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. Seems to me like eating meat and making excuses for it is just a cop out.
And I would be the first person to admit that I am guilty.

I keep trying to just eat vegetarian but I never seem to make it. So I guess the thing to do is just to keep trying.

I've been reading the Pali canon and some monks asked the Buddha about eating meat. He said that it was OK as long as it was left over from some other meal that was prepared for others. That made sense in his time where monks all begged for food and just ate what was given to them - left overs.

Doesn't really hold water today. Just eating meat adds to the demand for meat. And that leads to the killing of sentient beings.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Some people have had good luck picking a day to start.
For example, the Meatless Monday campaign might help you pick one day a week to eat veggie. That gives you both a fixed schedule to aid in buying groceries, and the confidence to prove to yourself that you can do it 1 day out of 7.

The next step would be to pick a 2nd day weekly. Try that for a few weeks/months until you feel confident, and add a 3rd.

Concentrate at the journey, not the goal, and you'll find yourself further along than you would have expected. :)
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's a good idea. I think I could do that with no problem.
There have been times in my life when I didn't eat meat for very long periods of time. But I really seem to need a lot of protein so I ate cheese instead. Now, a vegan wouldn't be very happy with that substitute.

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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-07-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Don't worry about what others think.
Just follow your path towards Right Everything ;) and take whatever incremental steps you need to along the way.

Again, the journey is more important than the destination, so there's no point in making sweeping, radical changes to your life that aren't really sustainable. Take the Middle Path. :) I've been a vegan for almost 20 years, but I certainly didn't go from eating meat 3x/day to being a vegan overnight.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. OK. That seems to be working.
I'm doing this one meal at a time.

I would love to just get to the point where I simply eat to survive - I kind of do that now as I don't really think about food much. Its just kind of something to eat. But I can use a lot of improvement.


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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Great! Here's another suggestion:
In the same way that we take refuge in the Sangha for support and guidance, it's important to have a local group to support your eating choices. Do a google search for your town/city/area and "vegetarian," and you're likely to find a local veggie group. Such groups are great for meeting like-minded folks who can clue you in to the local veggie-friendly restaurants and serve as dining buddies. Most of these groups also host a weekly or monthly potluck veggie meal as part of their meeting.

You should be up-front with them and say that you're trying to become vegetarian, and ignore any fanatics who give you grief that you're not there yet. :)
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I suppose that would mean cooking?
I'm afraid I don't have a sangha. All of the cool, withit types here in Kansas City live in the midtown area - many miles from me. Where I live are yuppie types who own huge houses and drive SUVs and rednecks who drink a lot of beer and work at the Ford plant. Barbecue is the big thing.

I have always just had to work alone and that has been difficult but not impossible. No one I know is a vegetarian.

One thing about it. I don't ever waste time in long philosophical discussions about the meaning of life. There is no one to discuss it with. Most people here are strict Baptists and they all eat barbecue, too.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You'd be surprised.
There are a lot more vegetarians, semi-vegetarians, and interested-in-becoming-vegetarians out there.

If your search doesn't reveal any existing groups, try using MeetUp.com to start your own group. Maybe meet up once a month to start at a restaurant where you could eat veggie.

Either way, best of luck in your search. :)
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I bet they are quite a few sanghas/zendos in your area
At the very least Google and call your local Unitarian church.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Our Unitarian Church is really snobby.
I tried going there years ago and it was mostly intellectuals from the university.

I think there is a group at Unity Village on the Plaza but that is just so far from me.

And there was another group I visited but they were also really far away. I can't remember who they were but they chanted from a book. And there was a video going on of a Hindu? woman - a really beautiful woman who sat and chanted.

Does that ring any bells. Lots of those people were vegetarians.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. i dont eat mammals.. it isnt required, it is suggested if it is necessary for good health, i saw a
video where the Dali Lama told an old monk who was ill to eat meat for his health, he wasn't looking good at all. i don't eat much, i do eat chicken, i am a border line hypoglycemic.. food is protein, carbohydrate.. etc. i work in aerospace, i cant get mind fog or overwhelming nausea at work..
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mtf80123 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-06-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Ommm
Edited on Wed May-06-09 09:05 PM by mtf80123
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. No -- Zen Buddhism doesn't require that you be vegetarian
I do my best to eat meat from animals raised and slaughtered a certain way.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. My vegetarianism has more to do with Gaia than Buddha
I was walking through a supermarket one day this spring with a package of flash-frozen strip loins in my hand, when suddenly all I could hear was screaming. "Noooooooooooooo!", She screamed. "Nooooooooooo! What the FUCK are you doing? You know better than that! You know what happens on the factory farms, in the feedlots, in the slaughterhouses, in the packing plants! Where is your awareness? Where is your conscience? Where is your compassion????" I burst into tears standing there in front of the dairy case -- a 58 year old man with a package of steaks in his hand, bawling like a baby. I went and threw the steaks back in the bin, and changed.

Any path that sensitizes you to nature can do it -- Buddhism, Wicca, Deep Ecology -- all that matters is that you know and that you care.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Mine started out as a financial consideration...
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 07:39 PM by Why Syzygy
last year. But since the swine flu was exposed, especially, I avoid meat. I haven't been able to stand the taste of chicken for a long time. I did have one burger a couple of weeks ago. I had dreamed of eating a hamburger. In the dream, half of us ate burgers and the other half were eating salads and steamed vegetables. Later in the same dream, I saw my puppy being grilled and then deep fried. Very odd dream.

Once you stop eating meat, even the smell of it cooking is perverse.

eta: I do think some women in certain age brackets do need meat. I wouldn't have been able to give it up when I was much younger. There were times when I craved steak. Of course, now I'm thinking it may have more to do with the hormones in the meat than the meat itself. hmmm
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It's the iron in the meat
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 07:48 PM by GliderGuider
Pre-menopausal women need dietary iron, and meat's a great source. That's one of the things that makes the "successful hunter" archetype so instinctually attractive to women. He has good genetics and he brings you iron.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Raw beets have lots of iron.
I have finally managed to just not eat meat any more. Just kind of happened one day - just didn't even want it.

I don't think you can justify eating meat. We don't need it. And it is just morally wrong. I have always felt that way but trying to stop was still hard. I had to find someway to eat that was satisfying. I managed that when I started eating everything raw - that way I don't have to cook.
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