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Vatican Protocol: am I the only one bothered that women meeting

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:39 AM
Original message
Vatican Protocol: am I the only one bothered that women meeting
the Pope are required to wear black, have their arms covered and assume a veil?

I don't know what bothers me the most, the notion that the Papacy still clings to the concept of itself as a government in exile or the misogyny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Nobility
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's biblical.
It ain't so much a Catholic thing (the Pope aside), it's a bible thing.

Julie
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. The veil, or even a hat, is now optional.
Edited on Mon Jul-20-09 10:37 PM by Matilda
I came on this article quite by chance:

http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2009/07/vatican-dr...


It's a bigger faux pas for a woman to wear white to a Papal audience than for her to leave her head uncovered.

The article also deals with the rules for visiting St Peters, and I was reminded of the time I was visiting Rome
many years ago. It was the era of the original mini-skirt, but I'd been careful to put aside a summer shift with
a hemline just below my knees for the visit to the Basilica, as I knew the rules. I covered my bare shoulders
with a cardigan, but I was refused admittance to the Basilica because I had slits in the sides of the skirt,
about 1 1/2 inches long - not exactly wanton. Without them, it would have been difficult to walk properly, but the
Swiss Guards deemed them indecent and refused to allow me in. Somebody offered to lend me a light coat, but I
refused to wear it because I didn't agree that my dress was indecent. So I missed out on the Basilica.

Edit: typo



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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I saw that faux pas about not wearing white. What's up with that, do you suppose?
Are they afraid of losing track of the Pope if someone else wears white? Are the rest of us less holy or something?I love the Body of Christ, but I've about had it with these old men running everything.
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ChickMagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Only the Catholic Queen can wear white
Queen Sofia of Spain wore white on her visits to the vatican. It does set her apart from
mere peons but it is a title the pope can bestow.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Worse and worse! Really, what does Jesus think of the idea of nobility?
First they wrapped the hierarchy and nobility in God to justify their power, now they're trying to wrap God in the hierarchy!
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ChickMagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I think it's merely ceremonial
The Catholic Queen must lead an exemplary Catholic life
and it must show in her words and deeds. She doesn't have
any power in the church other than being able to wear white.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Again, look to the bible
Many examples of various ranks there. And not all on equal footing. Surely you've noticed that, throughout the bible, women aresecond class citizens at best.

So is this some are more special than others thing just begin to occur to you? I ask because, and I may be mistaken, you generally seem to be taking issue with the Church in this forum. I know if I were still a practicing Catholic looking for a haven from anti-Catholic nastiness your posts would disabuse me of the notion that this is the place for such a respite.

Julie
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. One can love the Church and disagree with the hierarchy:
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Indeed.
Somehow your objections seem to have a different flavor.

Just sayin'.

Julie
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. We had a decent man retire as pastor, then a very dedicated younger
priest come in. He left because he felt the hierarchy will not allow reform any time in the near future. Since he's left, my parish was suppressed and we were assigned to a parish headed by a man who has a personal cult. He has managed to anger and alienate everyone from a convert who prefers the Latin Mass to the trustees to me. He has also spent a small fortune redecorating his office and the church building without consulting with anyone. The chancery backs him up every step of the way.

I have one daughter who feels unwelcome in most Catholic churches because she is gay. I have another daughter paying her own way through seminary who'd like to be ordained.

Information is coming out that bishops all over the world actively covered up crimes against children. They had no problem calling in the police if a priest stole from the collection basket. If a man is in love and wishes to marry, he is forced out of the priesthood. If he turns his back on his girl friend, all is forgiven.

So yeah, I'm pretty much disgusted with just about anyone in Holy Orders right now. There are some good , decent men out there busting their butts to serve the Church. By and large, I see a bunch of men determined to maintain and build upon whatever power they have.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Ok, you have grievances
and rightfully so.

I've gone further into this than I should have, seeing as I am not a believer or practicing Catholic perhaps it's not my place, just not sure why you post here, in what I am guessing was meant as a pro-Catholic forum, a refuge even.

I hope you achieve healing in your journey.

Julie
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. If it wasn't a vital part of my life, if I wasn't a believer, I could walk away.
Right now i am seeing faith communities being shut down like so many poorly performing McDonald's franchises. It's not supposed to be this way.
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Banned at the basilica!
Rome wasn't ready for you, or at least the Swiss Guards weren't.

I'm sorry you were barred, but it does make a great story. In the States these days people go to the White House in flip-flops, to cathedrals in shorts, and to work with both underwear and tattoos visible. There is some happy medium between a festival of slovenliness and keeping women beneath burqas...

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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. They banned a princess on the same day.
We read in an English newspaper the next day that Princess Paola of Belgium had been barred because she was wearing
a mini-skirt, about half-way up her thighs. So at least I was in exalted company - she's currently the Queen of
Belgium!
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