Are you a militant atheist?

[BurtWorm]

I ask because I saw a quote while I was on vacation in an Utne Reader I was glancing through from a British writer named Gray about the increase in atheism in Europe since 9/11. Gray (whose full name I forget, but I think there was an initial J in it somewhere), went on to criticize this trend, arguing that "militant atheists" were the cause of more genocide than fervent religionists ever were--and of course he cited the Nazis :eyes: as well as Stalin and Mao to back himself up.

Setting aside the blantantly erroneous claims that a) the Nazis were atheists and b) that Stalin and Mao's genocide was inspired by their alleged atheism, I started to wonder if there really was such a creature as a "militant" atheist, or if this was a media creation to villify atheists. It seems to me that there are outspoken atheists, and unabashed atheists, but *militant?* :shrug:

But don't let my skepticism influence your answer if you regard yourself as a militant atheist.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. I'll see your Mr. Gray and raise you an even wackier Brazilian

whose name I won't grace with a mention.

He wrote that EACH AND EVERY GENOCIDE in the history of mankind was the work of atheists. How over the deep end is THAT?

[BurtWorm]

3. That is just a wee bit way the fuck over the deep end.

:wtf:

[SlackJawedYokel]

4. Because they obviously weren't

"real Christians", right?
Did he not tie in Satan somewhere, too?

Along those same lines... doesn't it strike you all as odd that some fundy christians talk about the "christian" origins of this country and cite the very high numbers of believers, etc., and yet insist on talking about how *bad* everything is?(as if that Chicken Little routine never gets old)
About how we're *so* much worse off *now* as opposed to that mythical "golden age" of the 1950's(when all that christo-fascist propaganda got started in the first place)?

I mean just who are all these people getting divorces and committing these crimes and immoral acts?
Just who are all of these bad parents and juvenile delinquents running around?

Wouldn't the vast majority of them be actual *believers/Christians*?

Cletus

[SlackJawedYokel]

2. Seems to me that governments who suppress

things like religion are fascist/totalitarian and not atheist, per se.
Since when did atheism encompass persecution?
Last I checked it was a position, nothing more, nothing less.

From where I stand, governments that persecute believers are *anti-religious*(typically for plausible political reason) and shouldn't be confused with espousing any form of atheism.
I suspect that Stalins government were completely unconcerned with the theological/spiritual aspect of organized religion so much as its political aspect.

What exactly would a militant atheist do?
Kill/harass people in the name of a lack of belief in the supernatural?
Doh.

Cletus

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. Funny thing is those so-called "atheist" governments end up allowing a LOT

of churches -- as long as they don't badmouth the government.

Whereas if you DID badmouth the government, being an atheist would most certainly NOT save yo' ass from the gulag.

[immoderate]

6. The religion goes on with these people...

They just substitute themselves for the deity. The mechanisms remain the same. Support for the leader leads to salvation.

--IMM

[NMMNG]

7. Here's the (very brief) article/commentary

Among the Unbelievers

"A revival of atheism is a curious by-product of the 9/11 attacks," writes the British thinker John Gray. In Europe at least, "unbelief has been given a new lease of life by a savage reminder of the persistent intensity of faith." But atheism is no cure for mass violence, he suggests. Nazism, Maoism, and Soviet communism were as deadly as the most primitive religions, perhaps because that's what they quickly became. Indeed, militant atheism may hold clues to "the enduring urgency of the human need for religion."



Reviewing a British television series called A Brief History of Disbelief in the magazine Prospect (Nov. 2004), Gray, a professor of European thought at the London School of Economics, calls atheism "primarily an episode in the decline of Christianity." As a "mirror image of Western monotheism," atheism "shares many of its worst features," including dogmatic followers who fear uncertainty no less than death. "Happily, the atheist revival depends for its vitality on the primitive religiosity to which it is a response," Gray concludes, "and when that sputters out we can look forward to being rid of unbelief as well."

His conclusion makes no sense. Theism is belief in something that does not exist, getting rid of that is not going to make failing to believe in the nonexistent disappear as everyone will then be an atheist.

[beam me up scottie]

8. Slightly off topic but

did you see the first episode of the Sci Fi channel's Tripping the Rift?

Jobe and Gus go back in time and accidentally run over god with their spaceship.
Flash to the future, it's now an idyllic world, a Utopian society.

I was immediately hooked.

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

9. No, I've never seen that

But now I'm wishing I had.

[beam me up scottie]

10. You used to be able to steam it from the SF channel website

but I can't find it now.
If I do, I'll pm you.

[NMMNG]

11. Cool, thanks.

[salvorhardin]

12. I watched Jonathan Miller's A Rough History of Disbelief series

If you can get your hands on a copy I highly suggest you do so. Miller examines the history of disbelief (he's one of those who doesn't particularly like the term atheism) from the ancient Greek philosophers through the enlightenment and the present day world.

[BurtWorm]

14. It sounds like he's confusing atheism with Satanism.

Atheism has more to do with the rise of science than the decline of Christianity. I know I just posted a thread in DG arguing that science takes no position on the god question, but though I firmly believe that, I also believe that by removing the god question from the center of one very important branch of philosophy, science made atheism a more reasonable-seeming, less audacious position to take.

And that's why, it also seems to me, that "militant atheism" is an invention of theists to demonize all atheism, including that arrived at through reason.

[Modem Butterfly]

13. It seems to me that the term "militant atheist" refers to someone who...

...is quite comfortable with and confidant about their atheism. The folks who talk about "militant atheism" are usually expressing frustration that an atheist has dared to expose the logical holes in their theism.

[onager]

15. Maybe "militant atheist" should mean...

...atheists who carry guns in public.

And wear T-shirts saying: How soon do you want to meet Jesus?

[trotsky]

16. That seems to be when I hear the term brought up, too.

If you're remembering the same person I am, that is... ;-)

But also, you're a "militant atheist" when you insist on voicing your opinion. You know, the same thing every religionist on the planet is allowed to do by default. But when we do it, we're "militant."

[beam me up scottie]

17. I can't remember which DU atheist

posted this, but I saved it because it was so right on:

Militant atheism doesn’t exist on its own - it is often a reaction to much of the arrogance that religious conviction maintains towards the world and the human mind.

Let me know which one of you guys deserves the credit.

[NMMNG]

18. It wasn't me, but I wish it had been--it's an excellent quote.

I Googled it and found it here. Scroll down to the comment left by micketymoc. There's nobody on DU by that name so if that same person is here s/he has a different screen name.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Interesting.

Now I'm really curious!
It is such an excellent observation.