Shaman Priestess remains found

[rosesaylavee]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4631093

Interesting post in GD... Anyone else read Merlin Stone's book When God was a Woman? I recently reread it and thought I would like to read more about this period. And Psychic Consortiums mention of the rise of the feminine reminded me of this period of time and how little is known.

[Cleita]

1. You should read anthropologist Marija Gimbutas "The Civilization of the Goddess"

about Neolithic Europe. It is a bit dry with a lot of archaelogical analysis of artifacts and digs, but she makes the case for a time when woman ruled and God was a Goddess. Some of her male colleagues poo pooed her assumptions as overstating things. They couldn't wrap their minds around a society that was matriarchal instead of patriarchal. But I found it very interesting and very enlightening. She has since died but some of her analysis is getting vindication with recent discoveries like this shaman's grave and others on the Asian steppes, which also have yielded the graves of warrior women.

[rosesaylavee]

2. Thanks

I will have to get a copy of that. I did a little googling after I posted that this afternoon and found some of the poo-pooing. How odd it would have been if there were no matriarchal societies ever. Very unnatural.

[Callie McAllie]

4. I believe the Iroquois Indians were a matriarchal society

before they got pushed onto the reservation. The oldest woman was "the decider" for anything big. The woman lived in long houses with their children and grew crops while the men went off hunting for weeks at a time.

I always thought that would be an ideal way to live. Other women to help watch your kids and help with housework, husband comes home every once in a while to party and provide food, then goes off again with his buddies.

:-)

[Cleita]

6. I believe many of the Native American tribes were as well as many of

the Polynesian tribes. In Europe though, we seemed to have been overrun by Patriarchal, warrior people and the women became servants to the men.

[rosesaylavee]

11. And the Navajos too

Or at least their lineage is traced through their mothers. Not sure how the leadership is organized.

[Why Syzygy]

13. My grandfather's

grandmother was of the Choctaw River tribes. The research I've done indicates they are matriarchal, and their earth ceremonies reflect this, but the "chief" of the tribe is a man. The man is chosen by the women. Before the men enter the ceremony circle, they are required to cut themselves and drop blood onto the ground. The women are considered clean due to their natural blood shed.

I wish I knew more about their way of life. I read a newspaper article in 1997 (I still have it) that describes their annual festivals which take place in northern Florida.

[crikkett]

14. So many cultures consider male bloodshed to be

purifying.

If you're not bleeding yourself you're bleeding the other guys - honor in battle and all that.

[lildreamer316]

3. I immediately thougth of "The Chalice and The Blade"

That book changed my life. Very similar to "When God Was A Woman".

[rosesaylavee]

12. I will have to find a copy

Thanks for the suggestion

[LWolf]

15. Me, too.

I found myself reaching for it, in fact.

Perhaps it's time for a reread.

[crikkett]

5. Pining for the days of Matriarchy is looking backwards.

I hate to say it, but my belief is that Patriarchy rose because Matriarchy highlighted the expendability of males and diminished males. Listen to you wish for the days when men would just show up to bring food and party, and then run off into the woods again. When god was a woman life was brutal and short.

A return to Matriarchy is regression. A hierarchy is a hierarchy, it fosters oppression. Wish for Matriarchy and you're just switching one unjust form of control for another. I come from a family with a matriarch and so I know this for a fact.

Women are just as ruthless and evil as men. Women are just as good and honorable as men. Men are just as creative and tender and loving as women.

Democracy, equality, cooperation, loving and honoring and valuing all individuals, that is the way forward. We progress to the extent that we learn this lesson.

[Cleita]

7. We need a partnership with men.

From what I've seen of the matriarchal societies of today, men are pretty much regarded as equals, but they don't control everything like it's been in European societies. It seems the women actually own a lot of the property, which makes sense because they are the ones who are raising the children. In Berber nomadic society, the woman owns her tent and if she's pissed off with her husband she can kick him out of it. It makes sense because he may have more than one wife, so she keeps a roof over herself and her children.

[rosesaylavee]

8. I don't think I said that.

And I gave the impression that I was looking back with any bit of yearning, I am sorry for that. I don't think we yet know enough about it to look back at it with anything other than curiousity.

I agree that there is no one thing that makes one hierarchy better than the other. I just find it a fascinating subject... especially since there are many who try to squelch information about any thing matriarchal coming out as another viable form of civilization.

[crikkett]

9. pelase forgive me - I was on a soapbox

I was using 'you' in the plural to comment on what I perceived to be the general tone of the thread and (you couldn't have known this) frustrating comments I hear around me in life. I should have been more specific in my complaint.

By no means am I against information coming to light. I love to learn and thank you for the post.

The matriarchy/patriarchy 'battle of the sexes' is a hot button for me - IMO it's a general failing of feminism to wish for matriarchy - and I succumbed. I did emphatically believe what I wrote. However I shouldn't use harsh language here, it's not the place for it, and so I apologize.

[rosesaylavee]

10. Not a problem...

I have a mixed history exploring this topic myself and after rejecting it after a long time, am coming back to re-evaluating it again. I actually read the Stone book when I was in college - it was a text in an existentialist class (or that is what I remember). When in college was introduced to feminism and was heavily supportive of ERA and had friends who insisted there was a goddess not god and lots of talk about the wrongs of this patriarchal society etc etc etc.

Well, I overdosed mentally on this stuff - or that is what I call it. Came to a point where I just threw it all out and ignored the topic for a number of years. Sometime this past year, came upon a post here that linked to a video by Rangimarie Turuki Rose Pere from New Zealand (http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rpere.htm) and it just resonated when she spoke of the mystical feminine of her people and all people from her way of thinking. It started me re-evaluating that whole idea and how it related to me.

So I am coming off of a decade plus of indifference/cynicism so I probably understand your post more than you would guess! And having the PC folks talking about the feminine this past month, well, I just find it curious on a personal level that this stuff is presenting itself again to me.