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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 11:58 AM
Original message
Cat peeing problem. Please help. Will have to have cat put down if
I can't solve this.

I have a neutered male. 6 mos old when I got him. Now about 1 1/2 yrs. Didn't do this at first, but the past 4 or 5 mos. he has started peeing in inappropriate places in addition to the litter box. That would be: anything soft or damp, i.e. clothes in laundry basket, damp towel on bathroom floor etc. Also on my sofa. Head to have sofa professionally cleaned. I now have a piece of plastic thrown over it. He pees on the plastic. Not every day, but fairly frequently.

I have put away my bathroom rug. Keep towels on shower curtain rod.

I am going broke from vet bills. At first he had UTI. I treated for that. Now vet says he has crystals in his urine. Says surgery not necessary. I have him on special diet which makes urine acid and will dissovle crystals, says the vet. I have also tried moth balls, and cat anti-anxiety meds. Vet says it IS possible to get cats to stop this behavior.

This cat is from a litter of a feral cat. Born in my son's storage barn. My son had all the kittens (8) and momma cat spayed/neutered at considerable expense. They all were litter trained.

My son took in 2, my daughter took 2 (females) and I took one. 3 found other homes. It seems all of a sudden something switched on and they are ALL (that we have) peeing where not supposed to, in ADDITION to litter box.

One more thing: when my cat sees me walk toward the couch where he's peed, he runs and hides under the bed. He KNOWS he did something wrong, but he still does it.

He is a great, gentle cat in all other ways. It will break my heart to have him put to sleep, but I can't live like this.

Ideas, please. thanks.



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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've been through this -- it is maddening.
Edited on Sun Sep-18-05 03:02 PM by IndyOp
You have to act quickly if kitty is going to have a chance in your home. If you get to a point where you really can't take it anymore try to re-home him - maybe even give him to someone who would be able to keep him in a home where he could be an outdoor cat.

I am going broke from vet bills. Consider talking with another vet - particularly one who has expertise in treating physical and behavioral conditions that effect this problem. Kestrel91316 is a DUer and a vet - you might PM him with the specifics of your cat's diagnoses and ask him for advice.

Of course, make sure that the litter box is kept exceptionally clean. Consider using a brand called "Cat Attract" (Lorien's suggestion in a thread below). Don't use a box with a hood. Put the box in a quiet, dark place. Feed the cat next to the box - we want that location to be a wonderful place to go.

You might want to consider 're-potty training' your cat - start by restricting your cat to a very small space with a litter box and then work slowly to larger and larger spaces afterwards. You will also have to spend a small fortune on good cleaners - such as Nature's Miracle - to remove the smell of old pee puddles in various areas of your house. See <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=243&topic_id=8767#8779> and paragraphs 3 & 4 here -- <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=243&topic_id=7549#7588>

If there is *anything* that might be stressing the cat - allergies, change in your household, anything -- try a stress-reducer like Feliway and/or Bach's Rescue Remedy.

Here are a few DU threads about this issue:

Jesse's Pee Problem
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=243&topic_id=8767>

Over the past week my cat has started to do potty outside her litter box. <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=243&topic_id=2524>

One more thing: when my cat sees me walk toward the couch where he's peed, he runs and hides under the bed. He KNOWS he did something wrong, but he still does it. Please don't interpret your cat's behavior as him 'knowing that he did something wrong'. Animals only connect events that happen within 1 minute of each other - if you see the pet peeing and yell it would associate the two and know that peeing causes yelling. If he acts skittish when you head toward the couch he is reacting to your demeanor - the general rise in tension in the house that is resulting from his pee problem.

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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Thank you Indy, and others here.
I have read through the responses and will check the above links tomorrow. (kinda late now).

Regarding the stress-reducer - the vet prescribed Fluoxitine. Kind of a kitty Zoloft. I tried giving it to him, but it ended in terrible battles. Vet says it's bitter. But they can bind it to something to make it taste like tuna fish or some other more acceptable flavor. Could try that.

Never heard of Feliway or Bach's. Do you get that at a health food store?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Lorien says below that Feliway spray should be available at
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 11:00 AM by IndyOp
most large pet stores (Cat Attract kitty litter, too). It is also available from Amazon.com. Here are some links with information about Feliway:

Since its introduction in 1997, Feliway has been THE miracle and last resort for people who's cats are spraying urine or urinating outside their litter boxes. This is known as 'marking territory with urine.' This behavior does not respond to 'behavior modification,' scolding, or to tranquilizing drugs.

Feliway has been proven to be effective for:
* controlling urine spraying
* controlling urination outside of the litter box
* reducing cat's anxiety, stress, anger, fear

<http://www.catfaeries.com/feliway.html>

Feeling totally alone, helpless, and frazzled from a cat (or two) who is peeing outside the box? At your wits end from the smells, and can't figure out why its all happening? I am a phone call away. Click on the shopping cart icon and buy your consultation. My assistant will email you and we'll set up your phone time. By appointment only. Feliway consultation, 30 minutes - $75.00. Scroll down this page: <http://www.catfaeries.com/feliway.html>

The Feliway homepage:
<http://www.feliway.uk.com/feliway_uk.nsf/Page?OpenForm>


Cat Attract litter hompage:
<http://www.preciouscat.com/WebPages/catattract.html>

Cat Attract litter (Petsmart page):
<http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?cm_ven=goo&cm_pla=unknown&cm_ite=sku&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302025596&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441779416&bmUID=1127145335727>

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is long & very, very thorough --
Edited on Sun Sep-18-05 03:13 PM by IndyOp
And this vet says do *not* put food & water near litter box -- and so does another DU'er "Keep the litter box away from the food and water. If they are close some cats will not use the box because they don't want to dirty the place they eat."


A PRACTICAL APPROACH TO FELINE HOUSESOILING
Susan Little, DVM

The most common behavioural complaint about cats presented to animal behaviour consultants in North America is house-soiling. The typical presentation is that of a cat that both uses its litterbox and eliminates outside of it. It is also typical for the cat to deposit only urine or stool outside the box, but not usually both.

It is critically important to discriminate between medical and non-medical causes of a behaviour problem. The common occurrence of feline lower urinary tract disease (FLUTD - formerly called FUS) makes this especially important for house-soiling problems in cats. This holds true whether the problem is soiling with urine and/or stools, or if it involves spraying or marking behaviours. A good history of the problem is second in importance only to the tests required to rule-out medical problems for both diagnosis and treatment. It is essential to establish an accurate diagnosis for each case.

Remember that a problem behaviour is not necessarily an abnormal one - most problem behaviours are actually normal ones which are exhibited in an inappropriate manner.

When your veterinarian is taking a history of a housesoiling problem be prepared to answer questions such as:
- detailed description of the problem, its duration, progression and severity
- a description of any associated events
- a description of any corrections already attempted
- a description of the environment: ie. number of animals, number of litterboxes, locations of boxes, interactions between animals, etc.
- medical history (ie any history of intestinal problems or FLUTD)

There are 3 basic categories of housesoiling problems:
1) normal elimination at an inappropriate site (most common type)
2) marking behaviour (spraying). It is important to distinguish between urinating outside the box and spraying - this is done by a description of the cat's body posture and location of the urine voiding.
3) medical disease

** or a combination of any of the above **

After taking a complete history of the problem, your veterinarian will want to run some medical tests. A urinalysis is always indicated when house-soiling involves urine, and is usually necessary if stools are involved as well. It is not unusual for a cat to have a medical problem when the behaviour history is suggestive of only behavioural factors. Other tests may involve blood samples to determine if another medical problem, such as kidney disease, is contributing to the housesoiling.

A diagnosis is reached by applying criteria to show which of the potential contributing factors (both medical and psychological) are involved. A working diagnosis has the advantage of suggesting the factors which must be modified in the treatment plan. A treatment plan is then formulated. The plan should be designed to: entice the cat back to the litterbox using any changes (sometimes extraordinary) necessary, and modify the inappropriate site to make it unattractive or inaccessible.

It helps to understand that elimination in cats is actually a sequence of individual behaviours, and a problem can develop at any of the steps involved. In nature, cats have an infinite variety of sites and substrates for elimination, but in a home setting, they are expected to use a restricted number of sites (often only one) and a restricted type of substrate (again, often only one).

The elimination sequence:
1) search/approach location - involves visceral sensation
2) dig - involves tactile sensation (very important)
3) eliminate - involves visceral sensation
4) sweep/cover movement - involves tactile sensation

The contributing factors to housesoiling:

1) Litter aversion: a common cause of house-soiling. A cat selects a site initially based upon the tactile sensation created when it scratches at the surface. A cat may dislike litter because of:

* inadequate cleaning (some cats are extremely fastidious, and this can set off a litter aversion)
* learned aversive association with the litter due to: pain (ie FLUTD), diarrhea, fear (owner catches it in litter to give it medication, or another cat in the house always traps it there to attack it), odour (either from inadequate cleaning, or from deodorizers or cleansers used by the owner)
* an unlearned spontaneous individual aversion - just doesn't like the tactile sensation of the litter type
* a plastic type litterbox liner is being used, so the cat catches its claws on it when it tries to dig
* the litter type itself may be OK, but there may be too little in the box or too much
* and just to complicate things, some cats dislike the litter if you keep it too clean

Signs of litter aversion:

* cat avoids litter completely
* cat uses litter, but scratches at the sides of the box, on the floor, or other objects nearby instead of in the litter
* cat uses litter, but shakes paws a lot during and after using it
* cat does not dig in litter
* cat straddles the box, putting feet up on edge of box to avoid touching the litter
* cat uses litter, then bolts out of box quickly
* cat meows at or talks to litterbox
* cat starts urinating in box in normal squatting position, but ends up standing and spraying urine

There are several steps that can be taken to correct the problem, but first ensure that the litter is clean. Then be sure you are not using a deodorized litter - some cats find these scents very distasteful and review your cleansing procedure. A product with an odour used in the cleaning process may cause a lingering smell - change your routine, if not in a cattery, try using only very very hot water and no cleanser. If you are using a litterbox liner, stop. Try different types of litter: you may have to try quite a few systematically (for 7 to 10 days each) to find the right one (you may have to try a wide variety of different materials). Cats can spontaneously decide that a litter they have happily been using for years is no longer attractive to them. If you want to make changes to the litterbox filler or location, always make these changes gradually. For instance, if you decide for whatever reason you want to use a new litter, first use an additional box with the new litter and gradually take away the old litter once the cat is happily using the new one. For changing the location of litterboxes, the same applies - add a new litterbox in the new location, and gradually move the old box day by day to the new location (means you will have a litterbox in unwanted places but it's only temporary).

Finally, remember that some cats prefer two locations for elimination: one for urine and one for stool. Providing enough litterboxes for this may be all that's needed.

2) Surface preference: a cat may find another surface in the house it prefers to the litter provided in the litterbox. This is very common. Even in cases in which some other factor was the initial cause, a cat can develop a new surface preference. The most common preferred surface is some type of fabric, with carpeting being number one. Sometimes these surface preferences can develop accidentally, ie. the cat accidentally scratched at the bathmat hanging next to the litterbox and develops an association between
elimination and the fabric. Cats can also have a primary preference for one type of surface over another - ie they just like carpet better. A nice study involving an experimental trial of different litters for cats (Dr. P. Borchelt, Vet Clin of N.A., 21(2), 1991) showed conclusively that cats prefer finely-grained textures. Therefore, the most preferred litters are the sandy, clumping types. Second most preferred would be actual playbox sand. Third would be the finer traditional clay litters. Last would be products such as wood shavings and recycled newspaper.

There are some cats who actually prefer a smooth surface - they will be the ones eliminating on a floor surface, in the sink, bathtub, etc. They may respond to an empty litter box, or one with a bit of tornup newspaper. You can then try adding litter very slowly and in small amounts to the box. Carpeting presents a particular problem as it is almost impossible to clean. Urine odour is very pervasive and usually soaks into not only the carpet, but the underlay, and even the flooring underneath. For lightly soiled areas, clean with a odour eliminator such as KOE or Outright, or get a professional carpet cleaner in (most home steam cleaners won't help). In many cases, the carpeting must be ripped out or the area re-floored in another material. It may be necessary to place a piece of scrap carpet in the litterbox itself to get the cat back to the box or to build a small platform surrounding the litter that is carpeted, so the cat can perch on the platform.

It may be necessary to block access to areas previously soiled (ie. keep bedroom door closed, cover the soil in plant pots with a fitted mesh or add lots of pebbles, move a large object on top of a soiled area). Areas can be made undesirable by many tactics: covering the area with tinfoil (don't use plastic, many cats love to urinate on it), using moth ball flakes (as long as there is no danger of a child or dog ingesting it and you only need a small amount). For cats who get up on countertops and urinate in things, place a strip of double-sided sticky tape on the edge of the counter so the cat's feet will touch it when he lands there - most dislike the sticky sensation. In some cases, you may need to resort to using a motion detector that emits a noise when the cat disturbs the area, this works very well; and most cats will learn to avoid the area after only 1 or 2 tries. However, be sure you want the cat to totally avoid the area (ie its not your favourite place to sit and cuddle), and if you have neighbours, you better warn them of the noise as it may scare more than the cat. For bathtubs and sinks, leave 1 inch of water in them. For only one or two favouritely soiled areas, try feeding the cat at that spot. In North America, there are companies who sell indoor versions of the "invisible fencing" systems used outdoors that could be used to keep a cat from certain indoor areas.

There are many other creative ways to make a spot aversive to your cat, but they must be used in conjunction with tactics to get him back to the litterbox, for if you train him to avoid one area he will go to another instead. In some cases, it may help to isolate the cat in a small area (typically bathrooms are used) with the litterbox, a sleeping spot, toys, food etc to enforce re-training. Make sure the food is not too close to the litter. This process may have to be carried out for 2 weeks or more. The cat can be allowed out of isolation only when the owner is around to carry it at first, then gradually for little play sessions, or cuddle sessions, gradually increasing in time providing no relapse to house-soiling occurs (if it does, you went too fast, start all over).

3) Location/Litterpan aversion: the location or the box itself can become associated with aversive events for the same reasons that the litter itself can (ie pain, fear, odour, etc.). Most cats prefer an easily accessible spot, but one with some privacy. So strike a balance between getting it out of the way for your own sake, and making it private but not too distant for the cat's sake. Some cats prefer open boxes, some prefer the privacy of closed boxes, most like large boxes, a few like small ones.

Cats will learn a preference in which elimination becomes associated with a specific location(s). This type of preference can develop very quickly if a cat first chooses to go out of the litterbox for any other reason. It is to be strongly suspected if a cat repeatedly goes back to one area, or one room. Some of these location preferences can become ridiculous, so don't be surprised by anything (the
most outrageous I've heard is a location preference for the middle of the dining room table). To help treat this type of problem, you may actually have to provide a litterbox in the cat's preferred spot to get the cat using the box again, and then slowly move the box back to another location. Cats will usually dislike having to eliminate where they must eat, so don't put the food bowl and the litterbox side by side.

4) Anxiety-related causes: you must always consider the possibility that stress or anxiety is contributing to the house-soiling (still, this is not as frequent a cause of house-soiling as most people think). Types of stress:

* separation anxiety: previously recognized only in dogs, now believed to occur in cats. Usually occurs when there has been a prolonged absence of an owner, ie over 8 hrs. The house-soiling will occur 8-12 hours after the owner's departure, which is totally opposite to dogs, where the behaviour occurs right after departure. The behaviour may involve diarrhea and destructive events in addition to house-soiling. It can be treated similarly to the way dogs are treated (ie training thru graduated departures - requires a lot of patience and time) and with some medications.

* fear: cats that are naturally shy or fearful may not want to come out into the open to go to the litterbox. In some cases, there is an identifiable fearful stimulus, ie a certain person, cat, dog, object, sound that can be modified or removed. Desensitization and counterconditioning methods can also be used. You may have to provide a litterbox for that cat in some *safe* location.

* overcrowding: there is a large variation in individual tolerances for overcrowding. Where some cats may be happy with 20 other cats in the house, others will dislike even 1 other cat, or even one other animal of any kind. Cats do not naturally live in social groups all the time, they spend much of their lives in solitary circumstances and get together for breeding or they may raise kittens communally, or if they are forced to by a limited food supply. Many cats may view all living beings (including people) in the home as part of the social group, and adding to the group in any way can upset them. You can decrease the number of cats/animals, you can increase the amount of vertical space available by adding cat trees, or even clearing bookshelves to allow cats to perch there (be creative). You can separate the cats/animals into smaller colonies within the home either on a permanent basis, or for a few weeks to resolve the problem and then try re-introducing.


In summary, make the simplest changes first, make all changes gradually, be prepared to address multiple factors, and be prepared to modify your treatment plan.

The prognosis is variable, and it partly depends on getting an accurate diagnosis. The longer the problem has been going on and the more severe the problem and the more animals in the home, the graver the prognosis.

For new kitten owners there are steps to take from the start to try to avoid housesoiling problems:

* make the litterbox location easily accessible, but in a low traffic area
* try to provide 1 litterbox per cat (or for those cats that prefer 2 locations, two boxes for the one cat)
* use finely-grained litter types
* do not put food and water beside the litterbox
* scoop the box at least daily, change traditional litters at least once weekly and scoopable litters every 6-8 wks
* avoid frightening the cat in the litterpan, or trapping and catching it there
* **never, ever, ever punish a cat for house-soiling
* **make any changes to the litterbox filler or location gradually
* ** call the vet quickly if any housesoiling occurs
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here's something that worked for me.
My vet recommended this for a cat I had (years ago) who sometimes "forgot" he was housebroken. What you do is put the cat, his food, his bed, toys and his litter box all in one small room (like a bathroom). That's where he will live for about a week -- of course, you spend time playing with him; don't ignore him -- and because cats instinctively avoid making a mess near their food or their sleeping area, this method can help them remember what the box is for. Worked great for my cat, who lived happily after to the ripe old age of 21.
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. why don't you take him
to a shelter where he can be adopted by a patient and loving parent... one who won't threaten to have him "put down" because of a problem he can't help.

absurd.

u probably declaw too right?

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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I will just assume
that you replied without really thinking.

Several people here took the time to try to help, some responding at great length. I am most grateful for their responses and I found much that was helpful in them.

You don't know anything about me and I wonder why you find it necessary to be accusatory rather than to offer solutions, as others have done.

Not to bore you, as you have probably already made up your mind, but...

I had a siamese cat for 17 years. When she was about 12 she developed hyperthyroidism due to a growth on her thyroid. I understand that this is not a rarity in cats. I treated her with Tapazole (2 pills daily) for the next five years.

In the later years the tapazole began not working as well. She would hardly eat. I went from vet to vet to vet. I was told repeatedly that surgery was very dangerous because these growths wrap themselves around the parathyroids, which are responsible for calcium metabolism. I was told that if the parathyroids are even nicked during surgery the imbalance in the calcium metabolism can cause the heart to stop.

I finally found a vet who stated with confidence that he could do the surgery. Afterward, he said the growth just popped out and wasn't entwined in the parathyroids at all. (Shouldn't someone have been able to determine this?)

By that time she was so frail that she died in my arms the next day, as I rocked her and sang to her. There is a hole in my heart that will never heal.

As to the present situation - we have 2 no-kill shelters here. The message on their answering machine is "We are always full." quote/unquote.

As I said in my OP, he is a great kitty in other ways. I came here to ask for help with this. I was told by a vet's asst. that if people know a cat has a peeing problem no one wants them.

BTW - I don't believe in declawing cats. I have always clipped my kitties claws with a nail clipper. No problem.




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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. i think people get a little inflamed
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 09:00 AM by Kashka-Kat
at the words "have to put down", that's all... I hear your frustration but lets just not think that right now, OK? With patience it should be possible to correct this. It sounds like you're a caring person who does want to try. Ill write more later this afternoon- not uncommon for kitties to develop aversion to their box due to medical problems, they can come to associate it w/ the pain.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I don't care how many cats you've had.
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 09:17 AM by superconnected
If your answer is to put them down because of a "pee-ing" problem, I have no respect for you.

I hope you give up the animal. You really shouldn't be entrusted with it.

Kelly Abbott
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Exactly, I don't want the person who started this thread to have any
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 09:20 AM by superconnected
animals. This person will put the animals down as soon as they are inconvient.

Truth2power - Please take the cat to a no kill shelter so it can have a chance at getting a LOVING person who can handle an animal. You've already proved you cannot.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Superconnected:
My questions to you and Newsguyatl (who posted above) are these:

Do you think your response to the OP is going to help the cat in question?

Or are you just bashing someone to release your anger? Whether your anger is somehow 'righteous' or not, your response to the OP has made me angry.

Have you never expressed frustration with a phrase that you did not entirely mean and later regretted?

Have you never been backed into a corner and had to make a miserable, lousy, devastating, no-win decision?

While I believe that having a pet is a HUGE commitment and that if you take in a pet you should be willing to go to great, great lengths on behalf of your pet - there ARE limits.

How likely is the person who wrote the OP to come back here for help with future problems?

How likely is it that someone else who is incredibly frustrated with a situation with their pet will ask for help here if they see this thread first?

The poster obviously loves their pet and wants to make it work. What response do you think is going to make it likely that the cat will do well in the long run?

:(
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. I am going to say both sides of this issue could have been handled better.
I think the OP was being very inflammatory by posting a death threat in the subject line of his/her post.

In defense of the OP, I know we've all had moments with our pets, children, spouses where we've thought very dark thoughts. This doesn't mean that we act on them. It could have been that the OP was in an emotional state at that time, and didn't REALLY mean it.

But, I think that the OP has to realize that the sentiment they expressed would be very offensive to many people who post here.

To those of you who want advice with pet problems, take a deep breath and think before posting. Same goes for those who respond.

If you see something that offends you, ask for clarification. It could be that something came out more harshly than was intended.

This group was formed for those that love their non-human family members. Let's try to remember that.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I dunno what it is like where you live.
But in my area, the no-kill shelter is always full, and so are the rescues. If you have an animal with a serious behavioral problem you can:

a. Deal with it (what we are trying to do here)

b. Have the animal put down.

c. Take it to Animal Control where the animal will have a terrifying few days before it is destroyed in a less than humane way by state employees (they have multiple animal gas chambers here, or used to. Sometimes all the animals don't die on the first go, so they have to gas them a second time).

So the only real option is to deal with the problem. Flaming the OP is not accomplishing that.

I think it is important that people feel comfortable posting here with problems they are having with there pets. There are many regulars here who have EXTENSIVE experience and knowledge about all kind of pet issues and lots of rescue experience. However, new posters will not be able to take advantage of that knowledge and experience if we flame them mercilessly because they don't live up to our oh so high standards of pet ownership.

And sometimes a little knowledge is all it takes. A few months ago, a friend called me. In passing, she mentioned that her assistant was taking the family dog to the pound because he was fighting and roaming. I told here that the local pound has a 70% kill rate, so her assistant should assume that the pound was a death sentence and that all they needed to do to rectify the behavior problems was to have the dog fixed. Then I gave her the number of the low cost spay/neuter clinic. And you know what, they didn't take the dog to the pound and he is living happily with that family today.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you Wildeyed -
I think you said well what I meant to say -

I know that I have deeply appreciated vets (and friends) who have gently talked me down from moments of panic by providing helpful information and reassuring me that if I was patient and willing to take a few important steps that things would probably work out for the best.

It is not just new posters who won't feel comfortable posting problems here - I am a whole lot less comfortable as a result of reading this thread. In future, I'll be a lot more likely to PM Lorien and Kestrel with problems and may miss out on the input of others here.

I spend hours each day and a ka-billion dollars a year keeping my puppies happy and healthy and I'm afraid to admit problems here because I may not live up to the oh-so high standards of pet ownership.

And - trust me - I am a believer and acter in regards to that sanctity of ALL life.

The issue in this thread has become for me: Is it only acceptable to post cute pictures and say 'awwww' in this forum or can we speak honestly about problems?
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I definitely don't live up to the standards,
Even though I have spent so much time nursing sick animals over the last few years, not all of them mine, that my vet jokes that I could pass the vet tech practical examination with no problem. And I volunteer sporadically with local rescues to help save the lives of abandoned and abused animals. And I provide a safe, loving and stimulating environment for my own pets.

This forum was so helpful for me while I was going through my dogs end-stage renal failure. I got some great info, plus a lot of shoulders to cry on. I was very grateful, and started checking in here regularly. But recently, it has become really judgmental and I don't feel as comfortable posting here anymore.

I think the unproductive flaming also goes against part of the Pets Forum mission: To help DUers place pets who can't take care of them with other DUers who are looking.



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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Here are some no-kill shelters in the OP's vicinity...
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. thank you, Regna. i didn't know about the last two. n/t
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Newsguyatl - I almost always appreciate your posts --
My questions to you and Superconnected (who posted below) are these:

Do you think your response to the OP is going to help the cat in question?

Or are you just bashing someone to release your anger? Whether your anger is somehow 'righteous' or not, your response to the OP has made me angry.

Have you never expressed frustration with a phrase that you did not entirely mean and later regretted?

Have you never been backed into a corner and had to make a miserable, lousy, devastating, no-win decision?

While I believe that having a pet is a HUGE commitment and that if you take in a pet you should be willing to go to great, great lengths on behalf of your pet - there ARE limits.

How likely is the person who wrote the OP to come back here for help with future problems?

How likely is it that someone else who is incredibly frustrated with a situation with their pet will ask for help here if they see this thread first?

The poster obviously loves their pet and wants to make it work. What response do you think is going to make it likely that the cat will do well in the long run?

:(









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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. My answer to the question
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 01:19 PM by superconnected
Do you think it will help the cat in question - yes.

I think it will help him if you take him to a no kill shelter.

I realize you may be sorry for suggesting it, and I certianly am sorry you did. But still, I don't trust him with you.

Even your responses are super reactionary. I don't feel an animal is safe with you.

I guess I'll sit here and watch you keep going off the deep end. And I'll keep thinking, "poor cat!"

--------------

Oh sorry indyop. I guess I didn't realize you weren't the original poster. I suppose I'll sit here and watch you jump off the deep end. You certianly are.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. Try "cat attract" brand cat litter and Feliway calming spray
available at any large pet supply store. You also might have your vet try liquid (low dose) Prozac; believe it or not, it really worked well for a cat of mine when he had behavioral issues.

If all else fails, please consider taking him to a no kill shelter. He may behave differently in a different environment.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. First, have this cat checked for diabetes.
Inappropriate, frequent, excessive urination is one sign of diabetes. Your vet may not have checked for that because he's so young but we're seeing it in many younger animals and it can also be caused by steroid use.

If you are wary of the vet bill, go to the pharmacy and get a jar of keto diastix. (about $5) When you find a puddle, dip one into it and look for a color change. If you get it, then take him to a vet. Diabetes is EASY to control and doesn't have to take a lot of time after you get used to the routine. I have 2 diabetics, brothers, so it can run in litters. (Takes me about 5 minutes a day to prepare insulin, test, and shoot and I keep a close eye on diet...not too many carbs)

If that isn't the case, then you need to go on a more thorough cleaning binge. Sorry, I know you think you've cleaned but you need to get a black light and check every area you think is clean. Urine will flouresce and you'll see what's drawing him back to certain places. You'll need to get a good enzyme cleaner to get rid of the attraction.

And if all else fails, then please think about taking the cat to a shelter where someone else may be able to cope with his problems instead of having him put down. Please.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
20. PLEASE listen to post #10 and #19. "Putting down" a year-and-a-half...
...old cat is really not an option. Both poster's gave great advice.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do you have an open mind?
If you do, you might want to try a pet psychic. If I were in your situation where the normal things didn't work, I'd grasp at straws, including a pet psychic. Who knows, it might work. The cost is less than another vet visit, most likely.
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Shoeempress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. One of our boys has cystitis which is what you cat has. Our boy is
about 15, and we've had him since he was 2. He is on Feline CD which is a script diet. Periodically he has a "flare Up" and pees in inappropriate places. We put him in the bathroom with his food, water and litter box, only. Morning and night we give him about 1 ml of cranberry juice after his meal via eyedropper. This usually lasts 24 to 48 hours and he comes out ok. Your cat may be experiencing pain when he urinates, and that is how he alerts you to the problem. His behavior is probably causing the others to view places he pees as appropriate places to do so. Make sure the litter box is really clean cuz that can also cause problems. He obviously doesn't want to make you mad, but probably can't help himself. Good luck with him, and please don't put him down if you can't deal with the problem, try to find him a good a loving home.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh truth, please read...
My Mom has a cat who has (had) the EXACT same problem. UTI, crystals in the urine, etc. She had to have his "male part" removed and he is on anti-anxiety medication - and it has helped. I will talk to her ASAP about what they did with him and get back to you, ok? Feel free to PM me as well...
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