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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:57 PM
Original message
Low-Income Housing? NIMBY!!!!!
I've been trying to get progressives interested and aware of low-income housing issues, but of course, that isn't the focus now.. it's all on the crisis of the muddleclass. Here is one more example of how we're ignored, and demeaned (ignorantly), and there are very few who will stand up for us. While there is an active peace group in this town, they don't help us with this kind of issue.

There is a group who is trying to build a low-income apartment area here, which is DESPARATELY needed. To be clear.. this will NOT help me, as it's only for young people with low-wage jobs. It's not for us disabled scum.

However, predictably, there is much uproar, and much ignorant posturing. It's time we all learn how to combat this stuff!

Here is what was said at the meeting:

With low-income housing, you get people who are mentally unstable, a woman said. It makes more sense to leave them downtown where they can get the services they need.
http://www.canyoncourier.com/cgi-bin/storyviewxqwerty.c...

So, let's look closely at her thinly-veiled contempt: First, the residents will all be WORKING. They are job-holders. In fact, they are doing jobs that these elite residents DEPEND on... the wait staff of restaurants where they eat, the people who clean their up-scale homes, the people who staff their up-scale private golf clubs and physical training centers. They are the people who pamper them with massages when they are "stressed", and who clean the restrooms they use in the community when they are away from their mansions.

If she is talking about "mental illness", then the rate of mental illness for ANY worker is the same. So, there is as much "mental illness" in those mansions as there is in McDonald's.

Second, if she is mixing up workers and homeless people (and sometimes they are one and the same... more and more that is the case!), then the National Coalition For The Homeless asserts that there are 16% of homeless people who are classified as "mentally ill". That is certainly not a huge number, given that the rate for ALL the population is over 20%... from 22% to 25%. So, again, statistically there is more "mental illness" in the McMansions than there is in the homeless population.

It's time to start confronting this kind of LIE, and stop letting people fear-monger in this way.

Take away their LYING props, and make them say outright that they don't want "THOSE people" living near them. Make them show their bigotry outright.

Because that's exactly what it is... bigotry!

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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Whoa, did you come to the wrong place for sympathy. Theres
a crowd here who think this very way.

While I agree it makes a joke of their so-called liberalism and their fake democratic beliefs, they'll stick by this because hey, they don't want the poor or those who aren't as good as they are in their neighborhood dragging down the value of their 'investment'.

Note: I've been through this argument before.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thank you very much for your honesty! I've been saying for quite a while, and I have the bruises
to prove it, that "progressives" aren't all that progressive when it comes to poverty.

Actually, a while back, I posted a thread called The Conservative Paradigm of Poverty. Many of those same attitudes are expressed quite often right here on DU, and by the same people who are so adamant about the war, etc.

Actually, I'm sad at what you posted, but... the truth is more important.

And, I thank you for that.

:hi:
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. 'Progressives' aren't all that 'progressive' when it comes to their
OWN pocketbook or wallet is closer to what you mean.

Not being a wise guy but it's a cold hard fact of life.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Quite accurate. Also, it's just not a "sexy" issue, as a commentator on Air America radio
said to me, on the air, and, again, I appreciated the honesty.

People want to be part of "what's happening"... they want to be with the "in-crowd".

The "in-crowd" hasn't been interesting in poverty for quite a while, so the rest... well, it doesn't get them "fun", it doesn't get them recognized, it doesn't get them... much of anything.

So, we suffer.

And we die.

Big fucking deal.

:cry:
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. I own
and I bought in an area that has many town houses in the typical european centre ville style, apartments, condos, and public housing. The town I live in has only scattered site public housing because they think that the big "cit" or housing estate models are crap because the result is a segregated poor community. The idea here in Draguignan was that the poor should be spread out, thus increasing the chance that they will have neighbors who have jobs and will help their unemployed neighbors find work through word of mouth job ads...what a concept....
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #57
74. I've thought a lot about what you've said in this piece....
I've also thought that was a good concept, and it still sounds well, sound, to me.

However, in the last couple of years, I read posts from Katrina victims who see it differently, and their view is that it is just one more scheme for "developers" to take government money, then later turn around and sell it for a huge profit.

I'd like to see more on your concept, and to hear a cross dialogue with Katrina people.

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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. When the middle class "sneezes", the poor get the flu
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I knew I was feeling something coming on....
:hi:

I really wish DUers would take the hard-won facts I've been gleaning, and use them in to talk to other "progressives" on behalf of me and other poor and homeless people.

We sure aren't able to face this alone!


AHhhhhh --- CHOOO!!

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. One reason I kinda like small towns
Sure, we still get some of that snobbiness. But everybody goes to the same public school, the low income housing is mixed in with all the middle income housing. And you know when the rich fucks get in trouble so you can always take them down a peg or two if they get too snobby at you.

Are they putting in any "housing first" projects in your area? About 20 cities are starting projects for the chronic homeless where an apartment is the first thing provided, and any social services come after that. It turns out people can manage their personal issues better when they don't have to worry about a place to live and food to eat (duh).
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Well my small town...
is as clueless to this as anyplace in the country. We have politicians who want the status quo, meaning NO CHANGE whatsoever!! I just read in our local paper that landlords will now have to register their tennants at borough hall. Huh? Yeah, that's right, to make sure that no "undesireables" move into town. Close minded FUCKS!! This kind of thinking is what has ruined our little town and kept business and jobs away. Oh, also someone wants to open a halfway house here and it is going to be shot down before it even has a chance. No wonder the kids are leaving in droves, nothing for them here!!

K&R
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Well you need to take them the Constitution
That's illegal. What's your population?
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. 6,000...
I'm afraid the Constitution means nothing to these people, they do it because they can. Our "police force" has nothing better to do than sit around the corner from the bars to catch drunk drivers. And, now get this, arrest people for having the sense to walk home, I mean "walking drunk". Quote from our Mayor: "If one of the drunks stumbles into the street and gets hit by a car we'll end up with dead drunks laying all over the streets". I couldn't make this up!!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. ACLU
Seriously, you have to get somebody involved to stop the tenant thing.

The drunk driving stuff doesn't surprise me. I know they really don't have anything better to do. How many cops do you have on duty?

I lived in a town in MT that had about 3,000 people. My current town has grown to about 8,000. The MT town had 1 1/2 cops. My current town has, I don't know, at least 10, maybe more. The MT town was safer. It drives me nuts that we have so many cops and all they do is write traffic tickets. Tweakers all over the place, but they don't do anything about them unless somebody threatens to sue them. Go 5 miles over the speed limit, and they're johnny on the spot. :crazy:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. They want elitism, and expect workers (read: servants) to disappear when the work is
done.

and then they pride themselves on their intellect.

:rofl:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. BTW, "downtown" refers to not only a city a ways away, but a whole other country!
This is the mentality that brought us "Greyhound Therapy" back in the good ole RAYGUN era.

Some things are just so predictable.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. Heh.. that is COUNTY. sigh....
one little "r" changes the whole thing..

Although, come to think of it, it IS another country... this isn't the country I grew up in.

:(
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. The El Rancho, where ever that is, project seems like a great one. It's so true that many people
would object with a 'not in my backyard' argument. "Too many lights. Too much traffic." If the residents had wanted to keep their area of land where you could still see the stars, they should have shut out Wal-Mart and Home Depot. They have development now, so putting in the lower-cost housing would seem to me to be the ideal way to 'sensibly grow' the community.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. I've heard 1/3 of the homeless are mentally ill
http://www.psychlaws.org/generalResources/fact11.htm

http://www.psychlaws.org/GeneralResources/Fact3.htm

Having suffered from a mental illness, I'm not throwing stones. The mentally ill are drastically overrepresented on the streets and in the prisons. There are more mentally ill in jail than in mental hospitals. And (depending on which stats you use) far more on the streets than in hospitals.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. You heard wrong. Check my source. THEY are the experts on this.
I implore you to quit promoting erroneous "info".

It HURTS those who are most vulnerable, and most in need of compassion.

Every homeless person I've spoken to at length has said that the most hurtful thing to them was being assumed to be "mentally ill".

You can see for yourself in the above article, the damage that is being done. People will most likely NOT get housing they NEED, because of this kind of LIE.

It's time for us to come into the 21st Century, away from the RAYGUN shit, and speak the truth of reality.

I ask you for all of us who are suffering because of this LIE.

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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. How quaint
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 01:47 PM by Juche
Bigotry is evil, because it causes the homeless to be compared to the mentally ill. Thats almost as ironic as homophobic black people.

And aggressiveness will not change people's minds. If you rush at them and call them bigots, it'll just drive them away. Instead why not show them a film of people trying to survive on $6/hr and not being able to afford rent. That'll probably be more persuasive.

http://coe.west.asu.edu/homeless/mental.htm

"Nationwide, 20-25% of homeless people suffer from serious mental illness."

There is a difference between serious mental illness and mental illness. Only about 6% of the population has a serious mental illness.

"Homeless people with severe mental illness tend to remain homeless for longer periods of time, have less contact with family and friends, encounter more barriers to employment, tend to be in poorer physical health, and have more contact with the legal system than other homeless people."
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. I knew I'd get a DUer to be ugly on this thread. Thanks for your sneer.
Now, goodbye.

I spoke to you politely with consideration, and I get shit back.

You clearly don't care who you hurt, even when I told you how this hurts others, and have told me so.

So long...

Please, put me on ignore.

We have a hard enough time getting compassion without more conservative shit.


Ta. Ta.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Bigotry is bigotry...
no matter what form it takes. If your stats are correct than it is because of the failure of "society" in general and many government agencies from National to Local. This cannot be looked at through statistics, they mean shit, people cannot be "fixed" with statistics. The problem is that these people are "invisible" to anyone who should be able to make a difference. Our government would just as soon see this swept under the rug and hidden so they don't have to "deal" with it, actually doing something about the ENTIRE problem instead of just laying it off as mental illness and telling the people affected that it is their fault, go get "fixed". That IS bigotry and is not the answer!!
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Maybe they are.
But more funding for MH aftercare organizations like Easter Seals, more funding for group homes, more cooperation from the FHA, and less community resistance to supportive group homes that is based upon lies would go far.

Americans have to start treating Mental Illness like it is synonymous with "Possessed by Satan, thus unworthy of compassion, understanding and Proper Society". Because, it is from my personal experience that some of the people who rail so much against those in the MH community are the people who have some real and diagnosable issues of their own.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Please, could we PLEASE recognize the difference here???
this is the WHOLE issue I'm trying to bring up with this!

This is NOT a damned group home, this has NOTHING to do with MENTAL ILLNESS except that it is a red-herring to keep low-income working people out of the whole area.

Mental illness is a whole other topic, for a whole other thread.

Thank you.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
79. Excellent summary here
Edited on Tue May-13-08 07:38 PM by Naturyl
"Americans have to start treating Mental Illness like it is synonymous with "Possessed by Satan, thus unworthy of compassion, understanding and Proper Society". Because, it is from my personal experience that some of the people who rail so much against those in the MH community are the people who have some real and diagnosable issues of their own."

As a person with some diagnoses, I have some close first-hand experience with the sort of people who demonize mental illness. Ironically enough, in every case these people have diagnosable issues of their own, just as you suggest. But of course they will never know it, because there is "nothing wrong with them." All problems between them and the "mentally ill" (quoted because it's a term of contempt when used by them) are the fault of the evil crazy monsters, and they are blameless.

But, just for the record, Bobo is right and this is totally off-topic. Mental illness is not the issue regarding low-income housing and that false association is exactly Bobo's point.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. They're doing the same thing in the area where I live
There are plans to build a couple of low-income apartment complexes close to where I live, and the community is up in arms about it. They claim that low income housing equals more crime, more drugs, etc.

It's enough to make you want to :puke:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. What are the liberals in your area doing about it?
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. wouldn't low-income housing make people less likely to commit crimes?
If I didn't have a stable living environment I'd be much more likely to get involved in criminal activity.

What a backwards way of thinking.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. Of course. It's just a red-herring. What's really funny, is that when they talk about
worrying about kids causing trouble, it's the RICH KIDS who are doing the vandalism, etc.!!!

All of their arguments are bogus, but the "progressives" won't stand up and do the right thing.

They're frightened little weinies.

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demgurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. You are always out there on the battle front.
Thank you for all the information you dig up and pass on. I wish progressives were much more progressive when it came to these types of things.

I once heard, on public radio, about an "Alternative" to low income housing. One city, I forget which one, has rules in place where if you own apartment complexes with x-amount of apartments that so many must be set aside for low income housing people. From an outside perspective I thought this sounded really like a good thing. Why segregate poor from everyone else? We are all the same and should be treated as such. The people living ion those apartments with laundry facilities, pools, etc....got all the benefits at the same cost of government housing places. What do you think of an idea like that? Better, of course, is if everyone was entitled to a roof over their head and did not have to pay with their humanity to get it.

I am glad you keep bringing things like this into the light. Keep up the great job.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I was just blasted today on the Edwards forum for being too "militant", so I appreciate your kind
words.

This isn't something that is popular... if I wanted to be popular and get lots of recs, I'd post continual blasts at *. That would do it. :(

I get so much ugliness, because people don't like being told they are not looking at the real issues. But, I'm not the first to get blasted for that, and I won't be the last. It just doesn't make life very easy. Something about walking in the desert... :(

Thanks. I really needed your kind words today. A balm to my soul.

:loveya:
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Edwards supporters are saying you're too militant?
I thought that was why they liked Edwards. He's a fighter who's going to take on issues and the lobbyists. Wasn't that his whole campaign?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Yup, I'm too militant.
Here's a quote from Barbara Ehrenreich:

p. 221 "Someday, of course, --and I will make no predictions as to exactly when--they are bound to tire of getting so little in return and to demand to be paid what they're worth. There'll be a lot of anger when that day comes, and strikes and disruption. But the sky will not fall, and we will all be better off for it in the end."

People will blast me for my strong words, and dismiss what I'm saying. And, then, the fury of the people will eventually erupt, and they'll say, "But we didn't know....."

Whine.

You see, our suffering means little.

It's *WE* who are making *THEM* uncomfortable.

Poor dears.

:(

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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Ms. Ehrenreich is far too sanguine.
I figure we have 3 years, tops, no matter who the president might be, to get things moving back towards some kind of substantive balance. If they don't, the lid is gonna come off this sucker, with all the ugliness your fevered brain can fantasize.

Notice I used the word "substantive". The attempt to use sweet, mollifying words and produce nothing of real substance will work as well as windshield wipers on a Duck's ass. Repuke or dem, that president will preside over one of the most chaotic and destructive times in the history of this nation.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. You could well be right. She didn't see some of the worst, although I respect her work
immensely.

She didn't, for example, see the cops harrassing poor and homeless people just for the fun of it.

I feel the anger building.

Yet, folks want to make it be my problem alone. Sometimes I feel like I'm expressing the repressed anger of so many. When it blows, it's gonna make my anger look like a bed of daffodils.

"The attempt to use sweet, mollifying words and produce nothing of real substance will work as well as windshield wipers on a Duck's ass"

:rofl:

Thanks... that is quotable!

May I?

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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Please do.
All my bullshit can be presumed to be Public Domain, or at least GPLv2 or CC. ;-)
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Thanks. What I'm working on writing now is so depressing, this kind of humor is a boon.
:+

Get it where it can be found. :)
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. It's going to take cataclysmic social/political event for people to understand poverty
Only when we have the second great depression will people empathize with what it's like to live as a marginalized citizen.

It should be noted that I'm a totally middle class, twenty something, college educated office worker, so maybe I don't know my ass from my elbow.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
63. Many people are saying the same thing, as empathy is now a relic of the past.
I've been known to say it, also, even though I know it means I will die a suffering death.

So, I would say you are doing quite well with getting to know your elbow.

:)

Sadly enough.

I used to think it was important for a democracy to have a strong middleclass.

Now that I've seen what people do with that comfort level, and just become fat and happy and disdainful of others, I really don't care that it's collapsing. Maybe that will restore some compassion.

There ARE muddleclass people who still have heart who will be heart, and I am sorry about that. BUT, I'm also sorry about those of us with nothing who will go first. I'm a devout coward, and I'm not looking forward to more suffering.

I've had enough of that, thankyouverymuch.

:(
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demgurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
48. Sending out big hugs to you.
It is so easy for people to take words as a critique. They can focus on more than one thing if they try. I hope one day we are able to do away with all homelessness and move on to trying to conquer something else but for now the most vulnerable amoung us is who we must concentrate on.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #48
70. Friendly hugs greatfully received! I and a few others speaking out for poor folk
are now being called "Jerks" in the Edwards group.

Isn't that.....precious?

So, your hugs mean a lot to me!

:hug: :yourock: :hug:
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
80. Thank you for this...
"Better, of course, is if everyone was entitled to a roof over their head and did not have to pay with their humanity to get it."

This simple idea is so rarely spoken that it's always refreshing to see it reach the light of day. It would be better indeed if the necessities of life were a basic human RIGHT rather than a privilege - no exceptions, no conditions, and no strings attached.

But when "progressives" aren't even ready for this, how will mainstream America ever be? When the right wing has succeeded utterly and seemingly irrevocably in making "entitlement" a demonized curse word, where do we even start? I've been at it for 8 years, and the occasional periods I spend playing mindless online games and refusing to think about it at all are getting longer each time.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. What is progressivism if not a focus on poverty?
Focus on issues that represent low-income residents defines the movement, IMO. This is why I wouldn't call many of our national politicians progressive, despite that being the popular buzzword of the day.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I ask the same question. And get darts thrown at me for my effort.
Thank you.

Your words help.

I hope you will take the info I posted, and make good use of it!

:hi:
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. The risk factors for people...
Who have a MH diagnosis, a support and advocacy system, stability in housing and employment and an on-going course of care are very low. These things work to eliminate the stressors that can lead to decompensatory events. The real threats to the community are those who have MH issues, are resistant to diagnosis, primary care and follow-up programs.

Don't worry about stable MH consumers. It's the one's without the diagnosis and treatment that cause problems, too often.

I would suspect that horrifying woman is:

1. Worrying about housing values.

2. Listening to the whisper campaign that always takes place when MH residences and group homes try to come into the community. All too often, one of the first things that is whispered is "They are gonna put murderers and child molesters in that facility!". A local service organization has had to deal with that around here. In one case, that rumor was started by a cop, a local Sergeant and totally reprehensible individual.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I agree with you, but I want to correct one thing.. this is a WORKING community being proposed.
Please do NOT confuse that with a "MH residence", a step house for cons or addicts, or anything else of that nature.

This was sheer fear-mongering, and the "progressives" are mute.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. It seems that the new urbanism does not
always work to re-create economically diverse communities as much as push the poor out to the first ring of suburbia, where there are few jobs and no transit worth talking about.

I don;'t think this is inevitable, but needs to be fought by maintaining public housing, and promoting local service jobs and small business.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. And what's happening is more IMMIGRANTS coming in for JOBS!
In this very town, with the bru-ha-ha about those scums working low-wage jobs and not having a place to live, what the local McDonald's is doing is bringing in kids from Brazil, Thailand, etc., stacking them up several to a room in a cheap motel in a neighboring town, and treating them like serfs.

THAT'S what all of this is coming to....

Maybe we'll revert back to indentured servanthood... or slavery.

Wouldn't that be the American Dream?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
25. Shameless begging here... could I please have more recs from you good people
so that others on DU might see this?

There are many good and thought-provoking replies here... can we please bring this to the attention of others?

Thanks!

:hi:
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. You got one! Hope you are doing OK, Bobbolink. :hug: nt
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. THanks!!
And, hugs gratefully accepted.

:) :hug: :)
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R I'm still trying to figure out what a progressive is!
I don't know what they are 'progressing' to.
If it is progress to ignore poor people, they are succeeding.
If it is progress to make many more people poor, they are succeeding.
Low wage earners can't pay rent & buy food & take care of their families. Even with both parents working it is getting harder & harder to do that. The ones who put everything they had into housing are now homeless. The middle class is getting closer to being the 'newly poor' and are finding out how that feels. Still we have idiots like those mentioned in the OP who don't want to hear about ruining their town with housing even for low wage earners. Somehow this just doesn't sound like progress to me!

Yes, once upon a time the majority of homeless people were either drunks or possibly mentally ill, but that time is long gone. At one time we had excellent programs in place to help low wage earners & people who needed assistance for whatever reason. Those times are long gone too. Now, when the majority of homeless people are families, single parents with children, & low wage earners no one is interested in providing housing for them. This is NOT progressive! It is actually regressive.

Sorry Bobbolink, for rambling, but the attitudes are so disgusting to me.
Thanks for posting this. Somehow, some way people have to realize how hurtful their attitudes are & how much better our society would be if we we would all work together to build it & to help our fellow man instead of tearing them down.

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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. But, but, but!!!
Tearing down the less-fortunate is such great sport! Hours of fun for the whole dysfunctional family! "Personal responsibility for thee, but not for me!"
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. "Personal responsibility for thee, but not for me!"
I'm reading a book on community responsibility right now, and it would blow the doors off most Dem meetings.

REally, we are sooooo out of our minds!

Thanks... you are spot-on.

:yourock:
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. OH ain't that the truth!
You nailed it!
:grr:
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
81. If I never heard the term "personal responsibility" again...
It would be too soon. Especially since, exactly as you suggest, it is usually bandied about by people who have absolutely NO actual sense of "personal responsibility" of their own. They are quick with a condescending lecture but always fail to notice that they are the very same people who have an "entitlement mentality" regarding their own right to consume as much as they want, pollute the planet all to hell, ignore the needy among them, etc.

A lot of them need their mouths washed out with battery acid whenever they spout a hypocritical, self-serving lecture about "personal responsibility."
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. OMG, you are a prophet! This is ELOQUENT!!
I just printed up what I wrote in the OP to share with some of the low-wage workers here, and now I wish I had your words to add!

REally, that is BEAUTIFUL!! Every single word of it....

:cry: :loveya: :cry:
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Bobbie, you have more eloquence in your little finger
than I have in my whole body, but what I said is only the truth.
If you can use it I hope you will.
:hug:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. aw, pshaw! but thanks..... I used your words for the piece I've copied and
given out to many others today.

They are incensed and that ignoramus's ugly statement, and many of them are fired up to write letters to the editor about it.

They really appreciated your words.

So many of us hardly ever hear those kinds of support!

:hug: :yourock: :hug:
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. Progressive is the new buzzword since Liberal is a swear word
people can't be liberal anymore, so we have some national politicians claiming progressive.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I am a LIBERAL
All in caps because I'm an old-time liberal who actually believes in equal rights for everyone. Absolute equality. I believe that if we want a truly decent & growing society we must work together & help each other. Think how much more productive our society would be if people didn't have the stress of being discriminated against. (for whatever reason)
I am not a religious person, but the 'Golden Rule' is, to me, the best way to go. If we all "did unto others the way we would have others do unto us" life would be so much better.
:hi:
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. political labels are just a way for the media to put us in a box.
They're totally useless.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Most things the media says are useless.
Geez, I feel like I could rant & rave forever, but it doesn't help.
Shutting up now.
:)
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. The "He's liberal! Oh no!" issue will always make me rant.
Some people are so gullible that you can attach one word to them and they cower in fear. Numbskulls.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. LOL!
When the media calls some of these politicians liberal my eyes bug out & I scream HUH????
Well, actually I scream :wtf: but I try not to cuss on here.
:D
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. HAH! I got you beat! ^_^
Cuz I'm one-a those RADICALS!!

:rofl:

Now, aren't you SHOCKED!?!

You see, the word "radical" comes from the word "radix", which means "root" ( and spawned the word radish, too). I believe in getting to the ROOT of the problems or issues, and dealing with it in a straightforward manner.

None of that liberal stuff for me...

:rofl:

:hug:
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. True! One a them WILD EYED radicals no less!
:rofl:

Whatever you is it's a GOOD thing.
:bounce:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Don't shoot!!!
Now that you've seen the wild of my eyes...

:rofl:

Now, young lady, back in my dirtyhippiecommiepinkobum days..

:rofl:

we were sooo baaaad.... :)

Power To The People, rightarm!!

:hug:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
67. Before the 80s, homelessness was rare where I lived, and the few that were homeless
--were either really screwed up or just preferred being on the move. It's just sickening to see the how normalized it's become since then--Seattle has a school for homeless kids, and the assumption is that it's unavoidable to have homeless kids so we'd best get used to a permanent solution for their education.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Yes, it was rare. And since the "looney bins" were emptied in the 50's and 60's, it's time to put
that old Raygun crap in the crypt with him.

Liberals are content to have homelessness be "normalized".

So, it is.

They're content to EXPECT homelessness.

Maybe it feeds their superiority?

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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #69
78. So are you suggesting that we go back to having bigger
"looney bins" and keeping people there against their will?
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
59. K&R
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
62. Kick n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
66. Update... I printed out copies of what I wrote here, and got them to a lot of people today,
low-wage people, who are FURIOUS!

Many have said they will be writing letters, and I hope they follow through.

One young woman at a bank made several copies for me to hand out, and said she will share it with many others.

One at WalMart said she is going to post it in their break room, make more copies, and write, write, write!

It was quite a day, and I'm hoping maybe this is the time poor folk around here start speaking out!
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
68. Know them by their actions, k&r n/t
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
71. One day my 10 year old daughter came with me to a homeless shelter
While I met with clients about their legal problems, she sat on a chair need me, supposedly reading a book.

When we left I asked her if she had enjoyed her book. She hadn't read to much as she watched the me and the people I was serving. She said, "You know, none of them looked like homeless people." I said, "What did they look like?" She replied, "They just looked like people."

And that is the truth. I think it would be better if we referred to people without homes, as, well, "people without homes."

While some people without homes have a mental illness, some of my relatives with homes have a mental illness. I heard once, and no I don't have a cite, that the most common denominator among the poor is not mental illness, but that the person has been a victim of child abuse or domestic violence.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Such an important point! I *hate* the term "the homeless* -- taking away our humanity.
Edited on Sat Apr-05-08 01:30 PM by bobbolink
A pastor I met uses a term I really like... he calls us "People made poor and homeless."

I really like that!

Legal assistance is one of the HUGE problems for all poor people, and crushingly so for homeless people! "With liberty and justice for all.." What happened to that, anyway???

I appreciate your assistance to people in need...and, I'd very much welcome a thread from you on this!

And thank you to your daughter for her humanity and sensitivity. She's obviously being raised very well. :hi:
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
72. It's interesting that the people who are
terrified of low income housing in "their" neighborhood don't realize
that THEY are one catastrophe away from being on the streets themselves!

So much for the Golden Rule!
:(

Thanks, Bobbie, for posting this!

:)
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KillCapitalism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
75. Good post. More mixed-income housing is needed here.
Near where I live there is a newer housing development of condos, townhomes, and apartments that is mixed-income. This means that middle-class, working class, and working poor all live in the same community. It appears to be working out quite well. I feel that warehousing the poor in urban ghettos just continues the endless cycle of poverty. With the mixed income development, everyone has a nice place to call home, and the community is stable. There are no pawn shops, liqour stores, and payday loan sharking businesses there which prey on the poor. The people have a better rapport with the police as a whole because of the increased stability. The working poor get opportunities to get better jobs by networking with their middle-class neighbors. One thing is that it's hard to get middle-class tenants in this development since a lot of middle class people like to look down at the poor. Basically it's very progressive minded middle class people who live in the development it seems since I see a number of Priuses with Obama stickers, etc. parked around there.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. This sounds appealing to me, also, but.... I've heard from some NOLA people
that this has built-in problems.

I'd like for them to talk about it more.

"This means that middle-class, working class, and working poor all live in the same community. "

So, once again, people like me are left out.

Yanno, this is so frustrating... where in the hell are people like me supposed to go?

Really, what becomes of me?
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Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-09-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #75
82. I'd totally live in a mixed-income neighborhood
I like a mix of people around me. What I don't like is class bigotry and anti-poor NIMBYism.

The best way to ignore a problem is to keep it boxed up in its own neighborhood, which is what we've done with our poverty. And it makes it easier for the "poverty industry" such as pawn shops and payday usury loaners to exploit the unfortunate and desperate.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Yep, outta sight, outta mind!
Glad you reopened a very significant thread! :) Thanks!
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
77. We're having the same issue in Austin
We have a non-profit group here called Mobile Loaves and Fishes that has been doing good work helping to feed and cloth the homeless and now they're going to start a new project called HOW (Habitat On Wheels) that will be a small community of RV's and site built cottages. Of course, the standard NIMBY issues have come up, but as of April 10th, it looks like they will be successful with the first step which is getting a long term lease from the city for a nominal amount. You can read about it here:

http://mlf.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=habitat_...

Also, the University of Colorado had a student project in the School of Architecture where they came up with a kit to upgrade used mobile homes into small but very liveable homes using donated materials and labor and above all, good design. Here is their website:

http://www.trailerwrap.net /

And here are a couple of articles about it:

http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/trailers-from-trash-t...

http://mapletonhomeassoc.blogspot.com/2005/10/trailerwr...
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