Why is it that drs are bashed if they give pharmaceuticals, but praised if mega-vits?

[uppityperson]

Seems hypocritical.

I read that doctors are bad because they prescribe so many medicines, they are swayed by advertising advocating doing so, are too busy to actually help people but just give them an Rx. (In some cases, I agree very much with this assessment)

I read that doctors are wonderful because they prescribe so many mega-vitamins, they are swayed by advertising advocating doing so, are too busy to actually help people but just give them an otc. (In some cases, I agree very much with this assessment)

If they are too busy or uncaring or manipulated, WHY is it ok to prescribe anything and why the praise for one and condemnation of the other?

[YOY]

1. Who makes the megavits?

n/t

[uppityperson]

2. A whole bunch of different companies. Why?

n/t is usually put in subject line, meaning "no text" in message so those who are on slow downloading don't have to open up the message to read nothing there.

[YOY]

9. Because I am going to bet they don't have their reps invade my doctors office like Pharma companies.

I alway have put n/t in the body. Usually because I make long subject lines.

[uppityperson]

12. Yes, they do. Have you not seen the massive advertising NDs and DCs get?

MDs are getting more as time passes, didn't used to but yes, they do get a lot of advertising and stuff from vit makers and yes, reps do make the rounds.

n/t in body means "no text here" but by putting n/t in body, you have put text there.

[YOY]

15. Yes I understand how N/T works. I have only been here for 5 years or so.

n/t

[uppityperson]

17. Ah. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Mega-vitamins don't have side effects as bad as what they supposedly cure or treat.

Also vitamins/nutritional supplements are often preventative medicine, which is better than merely treating symptoms once a disease/condition/whatever exists.

[uppityperson]

4. Wrong, some mega-vitamins do have serious side effects. You believe medicines don't prevent

a disease/condition/whatever but only treat them?

[Sebastian Doyle]

6. I believe corporatist "health care", especially Big Pharma owes its entire existence

to treating only the symptoms, not preventing disease in the first place.

[uppityperson]

8. While I agree there is a big component of that, "entire existence" is wrong

Health care workers prefer to prevent diseases, conditions, whatever in the first place.

Do makers of mega-vitamins make a profit? Do they make mega-vits altruistically to prevent disease or to make a profit?

[paulsby]

7. not true

try taking megadoses of fat soluble vitamins (do i need to name them for you?) and get back to me.

water soluble vitamins are generally not a problem. the excess (not used) is excreted in urine, usually.

[Sebastian Doyle]

10. Taking too much of ANYTHING can hurt you.

There was a well publicized radio contest gone bad a few years ago where a woman died from drinking too much water.

Does that mean water is bad for you? No, it only means she did something very fucking stupid and tried to force too much of it through her system at once, and the result was effectively the same as any flood... the water had to go somewhere and she "drowned".

None of that is comparable to toxic chemicals which will do fucked up things to you, even when taken in the proper dosage, according to the manufacturer's directions.

[paulsby]

13. well, yes

that is true too. i marshalled an ultra marathon where a man died from too much water.

as the ancient greeks said "anything is a poison is sufficient dose"

but fat soluble vitamins can be quite toxic in mega doses. something like vitamin C otoh, will give you diarrhea at worse. it's pretty hard to take so much vitamin c that it harms you

[uppityperson]

11. ADEK, here, from 1 website... and a bonus

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/vitamin-A.php
Vitamin A overdose and toxicity
An vitamin A overdose can be harmful to bones and skin, causing weakness and brittleness, even leading to fatigue and vomiting. Excessive intake of vitamin A is toxic, at dosages of around 20-25,000 IU daily. Consuming more than 25,000 IU of vitamin A per day (adults) and 10,000 IU per day (children) from either food or supplements or both is known to be toxic. For those 19 and older, the tolerable upper limit for vitamin A consumption has been set at 10,000 IU per day. An excess of vitamin A taken during pregnancy can cause birth defects in the fetus. Symptoms of a vitamin A overdose include tiredness, discomfort, lethargy, upset stomach, decreased appetite, vomiting, slow or decreased growth, joint soreness, irritability, headache, drying and cracking of the lips and skin, hair loss, and yellowing of the skin.

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/vitamin-D.php
Vitamin D (calciferol) overdose, toxicity, side effects
There is a high health risk associated with consuming too much vitamin D. Taking too much vitamin D (more than 1,000 IU daily) can cause a number of adverse effects including excessive thirst, metal taste, poor appetite, weight loss, bone pain, tiredness, sore eyes, itching skin, vomiting, diarrhea or constipation, a need to urinate, and muscle problems. Vitamin D toxicity can cause nausea, vomiting, poor appetite, constipation, weakness, and weight loss. An excess of vitamin D increases the absorption of calcium which leads to high levels of calcium in the blood and result in increased calcium absorption from the intestinal tract. Long-term overconsumption of vitamin D at any dose greater than 1,000 IU day may cause high blood pressure and premature hardening of the arteries. Vitamin D toxicity (hypervitaminosis D) induces abnormally high serum calcium levels (hypercalcemia), which could result in bone loss, kidney stones, and calcification of organs like the heart and kidneys. The hypercalcemia associated with hypervitaminosis D may cause multiple debilitating effects. Anorexia, nausea and vomiting have been observed in hypercalcemic individuals treated with 1,250 to 5,000 micrograms (50,000 to 200,000 IU)/day of vitamin D.

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/vitamin-E.php
Vitamin E (tocopherol) overdose, toxicity, side effects
The health risk of too much vitamin E is low. Vitamin E appears to be safe when consumed in amounts up to 1,000 IU a day. The National Academy of Sciences has established the daily tolerable upper intake level for adults to be 1,000 mg of vitamin E, which is equivalent to 1,500 IU of natural vitamin E or 1,100 IU of synthetic vitamin E. Doses of over 800 IU a day of vitamin E may interfere with the body's ability to clot blood, posing a risk to people taking blood thinners (anticoagulants).


http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/vitamin-K.php
Vitamin K overdose, toxicity, side effects
There is no known toxicity associated with high doses of phylloquinone (vitamin K1), menaquinone (vitamin K2), or menadione (vitamin K3) and its derivatives. High intake of vitamin K is not recommended for individuals taking anticoagulant medications such as Warfarin (coumadin).

BONUS:
http://www.vitamins-nutrition.org/vitamins/vitamin-overdose.html

With the increasing popularity of vitamins and nutritional supplements, it is necessary to look at all sides of this phenomenon, particularly from the safety angle.

Fortified foods and supplements are in these days. They are ideal for both the busy and the health conscious. A vitamin pill or a liquid multivitamin seems the ideal solution to compensate for a missed dinner. For dieters, it means you can limit your calories while still getting all the nutrients you need, right?

What’s more? These supplements are little regulated if at all. You can pick anyone of them up at your neighborhood grocery. More and more people today add nutrients to their diet by selecting foodstuffs fortified with vitamins and minerals. Manufacturers add iron to your breakfast cereals or they even add vitamin C to sweets or vitamin A to margarine. This is something that is done regularly by the food industry and most people would argue this is a very good thing.

These products are intended to boost your health, but they can be anything but healthy if you grossly overdo it. Taken to excess, you actually can overdose on vitamins and other food supplements. The food industry needs to desist from advertising health benefits that are not backed up by science or putting far too much of certain items, like iron in their products.

[valerief]

5. I remember when food used to have all those nutrients.

Now we get foodstuff instead.

[Celebration]

14. .Doctors that listen to the patient are really important

Doctors that entirely base their treatments on some sort of formula do not make me happy. Why not just invent a database, have people enter their symptoms and the answer is printed out? If that is what they do, what is the point? Let's just skip the going to the doctor thing.

I'm sure some doctors that prescribe megavitamins are bad. Honestly, I think all doctors should be treated as consultants. Listen to their advice, do your research, evaluate what they have to say, and then make your OWN decision. In an emergency, of course, you gotta just go with it.

[uppityperson]

16. I agree, and the system is getting worse as far as being able to take time

Locally most of our FPs have been bought out by the hospital/health corporation and they are being pressured to go faster, spend less time, etc. Many are getting very tired of not being able to provide good care, some have left.

The system is getting worse and finding a health care provider that can and will be able to take time to listen and work with you is a really good thing.

[Celebration]

18. And that is the *ding ding ding*

The megavitamin docs are more in the "screw the system" camp. That has its appeal.

Again, I would prefer to treat ALL of them as consultants.

But, at heart, I am a skeptic. That might surprise some people.