Question...Any Dentists out there?

[Sugarbleus]

Last Thursday I started with an acute toothache in upper molar/wisdom tooth area. I have a cap on the last tooth/molar back there.

I didn't expect it; I try to get to the dentist as often as I can afford to. A building pain started in that region and grew to a molten lava dome of agony. I had just set some money aside to start with a new regime of dental care. I don't have any insurance that covers complete dental. Gotta pay out of pocket.

The pain was so severe by thursday night that I took a handful of whatever pain meds I could dredge up. I was so loopy the next day that I had my daughter call my old dentist to make an appointment. I agonized over the weekend with pain killers and Advil ...my stomach is upset from all of it. I thought I was to go in on Monday but appt wasn't til today--Tuesday.

I go in, say hi to all I haven't seen in awhile. They know I have a painful tooth and I tell them I'd like to start with a new regime. I go in to chat with Dentist; he pokes around and asks me a lot of questions about where the pain was. I told him I had seen a clinician dentist with my medicare/medicaid in the recent past but wasn't as happy with them so I'd decided to save my bucks do business with him again.

He verified that my two bicusbids <sp? were loose..loosing bone to hold teeth in. He tapped around my capped molar where I let him know that area was very tender and sore to touch. He looked at old xrays then took some new ones. He said he found nothing wrong...except for the loose teeth and a possible wisdom tooth problem. I asked him what should I do. He says, HE DOESN'T KNOW!!(????)

He mumbled something about a possible root canal and maybe removing the Bi cuspids...but said he hated to remove anything. He also said he thought the problem could be neurological (??) but didn't explain (WTH?) I told him that in recent years I'd developed a nighttime tight clenched teeth habit. He said that could cause a kind of trauma to the teeth. So he began to "shave down" my fillings and cap to see if that "would help"..

He showed me the xrays and said there was no abcess,no rot, just loose teeth and that pesky wisdom tooth....maybe

I felt like he gave me the bums rush out of his office. He was indifferent, uninformative, gave no advice except to give him $88 for the shaving and xray. No pain killers, no direction as to what Ishould do about the pain...NOTHING. Not even a suggestion for follow up. I told him I wanted my teeth checked over, filled, capped, new partial plates etc.. the whole works. He coldly told me not to think about "cosmetic" dentistry until this problem was solved. WHAT PROBLEM? I asked him is that all? He said what do you want to know?:banghead:

Has anyone ever had a dentist just tell you they didn't know what the problem was, charge you good money, and let you leave the office without relief?

I couldn't believe it. "HE DIDN'T KNOW" and gave no suggestions except to say in an offhanded way that "they" may do this or that. I asked him who "they" were; he said an oral surgeon. I asked him if that's what I should do, again he said he didn't know. SAY WHAT?

So here I sit without resolution to my dental malady and the pain is still there. My whole jaw hurts from the lower jaw, all the way up past my eye and into my head. Sheesh. The receptionist, whom I know, looked all sheepish...I simply didn't know what I was suppose to do. I gave them money and walked out with hand over jawbone. I will be going back to that county dental clinic I guess; I know they have oral surgeons on staff...but gee menee karissmass, here it is 6 days since onset and I am still having to swallow pain killers to get an ounce of relief.???

Is this ethical or common in anyone's opinion? Daughter said I shouldn't have paid him. I'm not going there with that but boy do I feel ripped off.

Wow, SB

[Spinzonner]

1. I had bad toothache that my dentist couldnt find anything

significant that would be the cause. It seemed to be above my molars but hard to locate precisely. He decided it could be a sinus infection affecting the nerves and prescribed antibiotics and pain medication for a week or so and I later got an extension of the antibiotics.

You might call and ask whether he considered the possibility and would issue a prescription.

Another option is to go to an emergency room or doctor to investigate that and other possibilities.

[Sugarbleus]

12. Nerve damage..hmm maybe that's what he meant by

Neurological? I haven't had a sinus infection in over 26 years. But with this so called "phantom pain", it did cross my mind.

If this keeps up, I wonder if my MD can help with anti biotics or whatever?

Someone in here say something about Arthritis? Have to go look. I DO have serious Osteo Arthritis...don't get the connection though.

Good ideas Spinzonner...thanks

[Spinzonner]

16. I'd never had a sinus infection or any other sinus problem

either before and nothing since.

I would go back at the dentist with the sinus theory to avoid another exam cost unless you're uncomfortable with an imprecise or uncertain diagnosis. A dentist should be able to prescribe the antibiotics - mine did and I'm in California also.

The MD might bounce you back at the dentist but you're the one in pain and you've got to make the best call for you.

[Momof1]

2. I'm not a dentist but

"I told him that in recent years I'd developed a nighttime tight clenched teeth habit. He said that could cause a kind of trauma to the teeth."


STOP DOING THAT!!! Please take my advice, I'm in so much freaking pain from clenching my teeth while I sleep it is unreal. I've heard things like TMJ...and it just fucking hurts, and there is nothing they can do for you.

Another thing...how many wisdom teeth do you have left? How old are you, could they be impacted? I am in a unreal maze of dental problems right now myself. And getting answers and work done are 2 totally different things, and I haven't even got any real answers. Other than everyone tells me to stop clenching my teeth.


UGH!!!

[Sugarbleus]

11. Holy Cow! I never used to clench my teeth....just started

recently. I didn't even know I was doing it until I came to a half awake sleep state and actually noticed I did this. VERY TIGHT clench too.

I would have thought the doc would suggest a device or something if he thought I shouldn't be doing this. He said nary a word.

With these replies, I guess I can safely assume that perhaps the guy was just having an "off day"...in terms of not bringing up some possibilities.

I'm in my mid 50's. I've never had any of my wisdom teeth removed. I could see in the xray that there is a WT right next to my last molar up top. Dentist was worried about removing it because it would affect the molar which apparently is in good shape.

Dentist didn't say the WT was impacted....again, He didn't "know" what was wrong. :crazy:

My lady friend has TMJ (I think that's what she called it). Her jaws lock open; said it caused her immeasurable pain. Her teeth look like they've been through the wringer. Her jaws are a bit crooked too. She has adequate dental insurance to help her with the problem, I don't.

Yikes, thanks for the input. I hope like hell you get your problems resolved. I wouldn't wish dental pain on my worst enemy.

[this_side_up]

14. He doesn't *know* but also did not

refer you to anyone. Typical.

My jaws have locked in the open position and also
the closed.

The bottom joints have fully dislocated while I
was asleep. Woke up and luckily, it slid back in place.

Dentist was surprised; said usually Emergency Room
and lots of pain killers.

you friend is lucky her insurance helps. Here,
the dental and medical insurance fought it out
for years.

they finally decided that it is a medical problem
so med ins pays for the splint. They will not, however,
pay for any dental work, or replacing missing teeth
or anything else that would help alleviate the
problem.

Dental insurace does not cover any of that either.

[Momof1]

18. my WT

When I was 21 I had my right lower wisdom tooth taken out. It was right against the molar, the dentist couldn't see anything wrong with it. And it was the 2nd (easist) one to come out.

There was a cyst on it the size of nickel. Rubbing against my molar, that is where the pain was originating from. But since nothing showed up on the x-rays, my Dentist at the time, figured it would be one of the easier ones to take out with the less pain. But it was also the one driving me nuts.

(Don't ask about my wisdom teeth on the left side of my lower bottom mouth...it involves hammer and a chisel...that was the hard one he was waiting to do the last)

[vlad]

20. Sugarbleus-Question

Do you have any medical coverage at all?
Because I was mostly covered for my guard/mouth thing NTI, as I had other pains that could be caused by nightime cleching, sore neck, muscles, temples, sinus, migranes... You have to fill out this questionaire , but I could have gotten it from my family doc, it's covered if clenching is causing physical pain, I know it's covered for migraines..
Just wondered...
You have got to stop any night grinding...
We have to find you something that works.

[Sugarbleus]

22. Thanks Vlad.. I only just went to dentist today ..now with

all this info I can begin to find a way to get my needs met. I do have medicare w/a backup of medicaid (:scared:)--I think I could afford to save up some bucks if I have to fork over more cash for special stuff--we shall see.

I do have an MD as well. The dental coverage is pretty basic though, no frills dentistry. BUT, armed with this knowledge I think I can savy my way into some decent help. When armed with facts, I rarely take no for an answer. :evilgrin:

I have Osteo Arthritis which leaves me very stiff in mornings. I don't know if I can tell between dental pain and arthritis pain at this juncture; but this is just more nifty info I can ponder on. Been getting SPLITTING headaches too (before dental pain manifested), come to think of it. Hmmmm

It's time for me bed. Boy o boy, am I glad I found the courage to post this to subject. :grouphug:

[Momof1]

23. Actually THANK YOU

I didn't understand why I was getting the headaches and sinus pain and the eye pressure. Like the temples, and the back of my head. I thought my headaches were separate from my jaw pain (I knew that was coming from clenching). And it all comes from clenching teeth...lol.

I also started I think when Clinton left office, but it got a lot worse when I lost my Mom last summer. Since then, I have been clenching like crazy. I heard it came from stress.

[vlad]

25. an aside..

Most dentists have this problem. and alot of them have one..

You should ask yours, whichever one you go to, if they wear one...
The ones that have this problem really understand what you're talking about.

[vlad]

26. Momof1-

I'm so sorry, to hear you lost your mum...
Miss her much, I'm sure.
Take care of yourself!

[Momof1]

29. thank you.

She passed in August. It's weird the first few weeks it is just shock, then its the months and the days afterward. I really miss my daily phone call.

[Sugarbleus]

27. I'm so sorry about your mom.... I think we may be onto something

here with the STRESS FACTOR. Behind current politics, then personal stressors--in your case your mother--we may be onto something in terms of all this weird pain.

Certainly in my life, the stress is unbelievable and unrelenting...no WONDER I CLENCH my teeth. Ha!

Some in here suggested I try to calm down. I agree. I'm considering asking for sedatives, as needed, to keep my nervous system in balance. I need to eat better, sleep better, and take some down time for "just because".

I'll continue my quest for pain relief in terms of my "dental" malady...who knows, maybe I do have an impacted wisdom tooth. Gotta go find out all I can about this problem. This morning I woke with little or no pain. Wow..not putting all my eggs into one basket just yet though..another night is coming.

When I signed off in here last eve..headed for bed, I thought about having all my upper teeth removed!! LOL..THAT would cure it wouldn't it? But, who wants to wear dentures when they don't have to.. conundrum.

Take care Momof1 :hug:

[Momof1]

28. Thank you, I really started noticing the clenching

right after she passed.

My one sister, who has dentures has the exact same problem with her jaw pain with TMJ, her dentist told her to wear her top dentures to bed each night so she wouldn't grind her jaws. It doesn't really matter if you have teeth or not, you grind your jaws and the same thing happens.

My brother's wife, has been begging her Dentist for the past year to just yank out her top teeth, because she can't deal with the pain, BUT he won't do it, because he thinks that by pulling more teeth it will make her problem worse. But if they go ahead and pull the teeth, and get her dentures she is looking at $7,000 of work. But since she doesn't have that much money laying around she wants to get the work done a little at a time, which is why the Dentist thinks it will make her pain worse.

Its a very weird situation were different Dentists will tell you the opposite thing. But in the end it all comes down to money.

(A little side note about my Mom...lol. My Mom absolutely hated Dentists. In fact I never saw her go to a Dentist. (I was a late in life baby) But I Did watch my Mom pull every single one of her teeth out, one-by-one over 30 yrs. With just OTC numbing medicine. The pain she must of been in just floors me now, but her stubbornness and hatred of Dentists won out in the end) She was born in 1929, a real depression era child. While I was growing up, she never made fish or venison, she had her fill of that while growing up.

Monday was her 35th wedding anniversary, and she has been on my mind alot lately.

TY:grouphug:

[Sugarbleus]

30. Wow, I am a "late life" child also...

My father (long since deceased) was born in 1901. My mother was born in 1917. My hubby's parents are much the same. His sister is old enough to be his mother; his mother is old enough to be his grandmother: 94 years old!

It's funny you should comment on your mom's hatred of dentists; my own father was reluctant to use their services too. He would pull his own teeth out much the same way you described...did the same for us too. Yikes!

My dad lost his front teeth early on so instead of coughing up the bucks to have some made, he carved them out of parafin wax!!:rofl: Eventually he did get a real set.

I don't have adequate dental insurance either. The clinic I can go to will do only the basics. It's no frills dentistry. Furthermore, I am not qualified to ask for partial plates....only full sets of dentures should I lose all my teeth. Even then, without the big bucks, the dentures they offer are little more than PIANO KEYS in flesh colored plastic. :eyes:

Just because I have inadequate insurance doesn't mean I have no dignity or concern for my appearance, ya know? I was talking to the dental assistant in the private dentist's office on Tuesday. She affirmed that "dental" insurance isn't equal in all healthcare plans. That just seems ludicrous: ALL people HAVE TEETH, teeth that will at some point need attention.

It's interesting to me that so many talk about affordable/universal healthcare but I never hear them include dentistry, PT, hearing services, mental health, or vision care. Might be worth looking into this before the healthcare talk goes much further.

Warmest wishes to you at the anniversary of your mother's marriage. I know the pain of loss when a parent leaves us. Live on FOR HER, you'll feel her all around in a "good way".

:grouphug: SB

[this_side_up]

3. what state do you live in?

For me....TMJ problems (temporal mandible joint) plus
arthritis in same.

The only mouth splint/guard that works for me is
the Talon. Doesn't prevent grinding but eases the
damage to teeth. Guard sometimes needs to be filed down
as splints do change your bite.

Do NOT ever let them file your teeth down. In the
80s, the dumb asses told me that would take care of
the problem. bastards. Filing only made things
worse. Think of a fulcrum. That is what your
jaw joints and teeth behave like.

Pain...inflammation caused by ? and grinding presssure.

For me, anti-glaucoma meds and/or anti-seizure
works to reduce the amount of fluid in brain and eyes,
which greatly reduces my teeth pain. Actually, the
tooth that was so bad the past 2 months...now does
not hurt. that took only 6 pills over 2 weeks.

My problem: the meds are acidic and my bladder
cannot handle acidic things, so I am left with???

If you can get to Seattle, the U of W has a good
dental clinic. I might go there next. Depends on the
result of my next doctor visit.

If not, search newsgroup sci.med.dentistry. Look
for one named Heir and send him e-mail stating
problem and what state you are in.


A retired dentist I talked to recently said that
UofW is good but he thinks UC at San Franisco is better.

[Sugarbleus]

7. Calif here.

Not so far from UCSF either..

I did wonder to myself (after getting his reaction to my clenched teeth) whether he would prescribe some device to keep me from biting down so hard as I slept. But nooooooo, the guy was all shrugs and blinking eyes...No presciptions..zero.

This was the first time I've ever had a doc of any sort NOT KNOW or have an inkling of what might be the cause of my pain. Really weird

How does the glaucoma/seizure meds help you? Reduces fluid? in eye and brain? Wow, what is happening with you. That sounds aweful.:hug:

Thanks for responding, BTW, I didn't think anyone would hit on this subject. I'm surprised so many have troubling probs with teeth.

[Momof1]

10. about the clenching

"I did wonder to myself (after getting his reaction to my clenched teeth) whether he would prescribe some device to keep me from biting down so hard as I slept. But nooooooo, the guy was all shrugs and blinking eyes...No presciptions..zero."

My sister-in-law paid a couple hundred bucks for something at her Dentist. My Dentist told me to go to Wal-Mart, there is a thing there for $20.

(My Dentist is at a clinic, where they don't get paid for the junk that they sell)

[Sugarbleus]

13. OTC dental devices.... sounds like a plan if it comes to that..

Thanks again...


Thanks to all of ya. I don't feel like the lone ranger now. I've got some ideas. I appreciate it very much. :thumbsup:

[this_side_up]

17. Call UCSF and get an appointment

as soon as you can.

If you grind/clench, you must have a mouth splint.
My dentist is retired, so I am now lookiing for a new
one. He wanted me to wear it day and night but...
PITA, so I usually wear it only at night.

It *will* change your bite as it brings your lower
jaw foward.

You might need to get a new dentist. Possibly
UCSF can help you with that.

You think it is weird that he supposedly has
no inkling and no recommendations. I don't.
Typical. But I won't get into that here.
Makes me sound like a nut :)

"How does the glaucoma/seizure meds help you?
Reduces fluid? in eye and brain? Wow, what is happening with you. That sounds aweful.:hug:"

A big hug to you also. I know what it is like.
The med helps by reducing brain cerebral spinal fluid = pressure.
Pressure = squishing the hell out of cranial nerves, along
with all of the other nerves.

For me, the pressure results in ?? -- Nerve
inflammation, pain, whatever. *that* results in
grinding in an attempt to get rid of the pressure, inflammation.

Vicious cycle.

You say:
I'm surprised so many have troubling probs with teeth.

I'm not surprised. Again, I won't
get into it here (look a nut! :)) but I do watch
the health news on the net and on various boards I
either lurk at or post....interesting health problems.
But I am not saying their problems are the same as mine,
just makes me Hmmmmm

Since I am not Frist or a Rep, I do not have the ability
to dx people from a video, much less a post ;p

Call SF tomorrow.

And for your own peace of mind, do start a log of
any health problems you have or pains or abnormal
blood or urine tests or whatever.

Do try to relax. It will help. You could also
wash your thumb a lot and then stick it in your mouth
on the cheek next to the tooth that hurts. Push cheek
outward. See if you can find the tendons and try to
stretch them. Slowly. Do it 3-4 times a day for a
30-60 seconds. Might be higher up the cheek, might
be farther past the tooth. Just try rooting around
and see what hurts.

Ice pack on the outside is good.

I had a book? don't know where it is or if I still
have it. Had some good TMJ info in it. Will look
tomorrow. Go search for TMJ and stretching.

I gotta get to sleep.


Edit to add: Physical therapy. SF should be able
to decide if you need 3-4 weeks of it. The therapist
can show you what and how to stretch.

[silverweb]

4. Teeth.

I've always believed that God made two mistakes -- teeth and fleas.

:silly:

I hope you find relief soon, Sugarbleus!!

[Sugarbleus]

5. LOL--->Teeth and fleas... Truer words were never spoken..

No kidding. Why such a delicate item..teeth? I wonder what ancient man did. Sheesh..

[Spinzonner]

6. Chewed roots, died young

very little processed sugar

[Sugarbleus]

8. LOL again.... wasn't able to "chew" much of anything in 6 days..

soft roots sound pretty good right about now..

[Spinzonner]

9. I was thinking some of those roots

night have had medicinal effect. FOlk medecine and all that.

Counteracting acid, Killing bacteria, etc.

[vlad]

15. Mouth pains from hell..

So sorry to hear someone in pain.. must respond..
Mine came in the form of pain you're talking about, plus ear pain(deep in there),pressure on my eyes, nose, & temples. I had been using those football mouth guards because I could not afford anything else, I would just have it shredded every morning.
The dentist says well, we can't do much here, until we get your other problem settled. I thought him to be mental, perhaps. All of my teeth, jaw, even cheekbones hurt like I wanted to just sledgehammer my head. Constant nuprin and sinus tablets. tubes of orajel 3-4 a week.
He made me this little thing called an NTI ( nociceptive trigeminal inhibition ), and told me to wear it , and that it might feel worse for a few days. And something about the power of the human bite, that I had cracked all the tops of my molars right off. And that that pressure put on the nerves there go straight through the one sinus cavity and through to the brain.
And that I had to teach myself a different method of holding my mouth so that my molars could not bite, clench, that the front teeth can't clench as hard.
I left thinking he was crazy, I truly did.
I wore it constantly, it goes over the front teeth only.
Every day less and less pain, until it was just those teeth that were cracked from grinding were just sensitive to hot/cold.
Then, after probably 2-3 months I got the teeth fixed.
Here's a site about the NTI(I'm not a salesperson)
http://www.nti-tss.com/

If any of that sounds familiar, that might help you!
I wonder how many of us here are grinders, teeth-clenchers since the 2000 election/selection.???

I wish you luck and hope your pains leave you. I remember them well.

[Sugarbleus]

19. 2000 election ...BINGO, I think that may be when this started...

LOL... no kidding, I think it could be a contributor... My nerves, my anxiety is way up. We teeth grinder/clenchers must look like this smilie---> :mad:


Hey, thanks for the link Vlad....... I will look into all the info posted. Right at this moment in time, I cannot imagine how I will "Teach" myself not to bite down when I'm sound asleep.. Like others have stated in here, some use a device to keep the teeth from clenching. It sounds about right to me. Damn, are my jaws powerful. I had no idea. The first thing that came to my mind when I discovered I had such a strong bite was: PARROTS, parrots can snap off a human finger like it was a saltine cracker..(something like that)

I can't say enough about my appreciation for all the info.

*Booking the thread too*

[Momof1]

21. How Much?

Sounds great, but...

No insurance

[vlad]

24. n/t sorry

sorry, there, was researching this horrible thing my dad has..

.. I think something like 200$

I'll try to find something like this, but alot cheaper..
I want to call a dentist here today and see.
Some place in Calif. charges like 600$, and I just spit my coffee up thinking how in the name of god does someone afford that, unless you're in something bigtime, like the mob, or politicians...
That's just rediculous. I think 200$ is ridiculous, so I'm going to keep looking... I can't imagine how many bottles of nuprin I would have bought, or teeth I would have had to keep getting fixed without it though.

A simpler method might just be to lock up the criminals in office!