"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals

[William769]

and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't
mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's
just that they need more supervision."


Lynn Lavner

[FloridaPat]

1. Anyone know where the 6 are located in the Bible?

[William769]

3. I can narrow the search a little

They are all in the Old Testament.

[Burning Water]

10. Not exactly,

1 Timothy 1:9-11 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust

'Course, this was just the apostle Paul, whom many people have severe theological differences with.

[GymGeekAus]

14. Paul was a creep.

"Course, this was just the apostle Paul, whom many people have severe theological differences with."

No kidding! The man was seriously deranged. But there ya go. It quite clearly illustrates a problem we're having with our own society right now. When you let the nutjobs do all the talking, their words and opinions are the only ones who are recorded for posterity. When you accept their statements without support or evaluation, you're giving them power they haven't earned.

Closing yourself off to the perspectives of others is dangerous. Witness the radical right wing of the GOP, who claim to have a divine command of morality and ethics.

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient..." is actually a hollow statement when you consider it. It's basically saying "if you don't break the law, then the law doesn't concern you. But if you do break the law, you are either lawless, disobedient, or righteous." It's that last part there that requires careful scrutiny, and should have included an admonishment to the reader for serious caution.

But then again, Jesus did tell us we'd "know them by their works." Somehow, I have difficulty visualizing Jesus leading the charge to war in Iraq from the comfort of a Washington DC secure location.

Perhaps Paul was the first neoconservative? He did take the liberal message of Jesus and pervert it horribly. Neoconservatism is basically neoliberalism with a name change, right?

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. Except that is not what the Bible says

Remember, the Bible was actually written in Hebrew, some Aramaic and a peculiar dialect of Greek called Koine. Despite the assertions of the "KJV" crowd, the Bible was not written in English.

Speaking of the passage quoted above from Timothy, the Greek translated above as "for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind" can be transliterated as: pornois arsenokoitais

Pornos had a very specific meaning: prostitution, specifically women who sold themselves sexually. "Whoremonger", ie pimp, is entirely inappropriate and has no basis in the Greek text.

Arsenokoitos is more problamatic; it is made from arsenos, meaning "man", and koita, "marriage bed" (the same root from which Latin gets coitus.) In the Septuagent (an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures written about the 2nd century BCE), arsenokoitos is used where Hebrew uses the phrase "man who lies with" to describe a large variety of sexual sins. Given that arsenokoitos follows pornos, it very likely means a man who uses prostitutes.

The context of these two words is really, "prostitutes and those who hire them." There is no mention whatsoever of homosexuality in the original Greek presumably written by Paul. Any such interpolation is completely unbiblical.

[Burning Water]

17. OK,

whore hoppers, not whore mongers. I always thought of it that way, anyhow. As for the other, the word that jumps out at me is "problematic". Obviously, you have an opinion that is different from that of the KJV translators, but evidence as to who is right seems ambiguous. I am not knowledgeable enough in this field to have an opinion that should carry weight with anyone else, so I won't offer one.

However, based on the KJV translation, and others, that is what the Bible says. But then there is so much room for interpretation. Otherwise how could we have liberal and conservative churches and Christians all yelling at each other that they had the 'way'??

As for me, I'm, content to wait and let God sort it out for me. In the meantime, I try to minimize my prejudices against all people, of all colors, religions, politics, nations, genders, and whatever, which is one thing that I think I CAN definitely say the Bible teaches. To do no harm to anyone without just cause or necessity, to forgive to the extent that I am able those that harm me (I have some trouble with that one), and to judge men only on their own actions.

[Chipper Chat]

4. And while we're at it - let's look up the passage where it's

definitely biblical to own slaves.
And I'm so thankful all those fundamentalist christians obey the scripture that forbids working on Sundays!

[greyl]

6. Not just own, but beat slaves.

A quip care of Jesus.

It think a few of the homosexual references may be included here:

46. Should Christian men kiss each other?
Answer: Yes

Yes. --Why do we not see men kissing in church, then? "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss." (I Thessalonians 5:26. See also Romans 16:16; I Corinthians 16:20; II Corinthians 13:12; I Peter 5:14)

http://www.ffrf.org/quiz/bquiz.php

[Wickerman]

5. here is a list, both NT and OT

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

Introduction: Quotations, Overview, Basic approach, A caution, Biblical references to same-sex Activity, People's beliefs about the Bible. :


Analysis of key passages from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament):
Genesis 1: Be fruitful and multiply....
Genesis 19: the story of Sodom & Gomorrah
Other verses from Genesis: about Adam, Eve and Noah
The Mosaic code & the meaning of To'ebah Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Deuteronomy, Judges, Kings



Analysis of key passages from the Christian Scriptures (New Testament):
Romans 1
1 Corinthians 6 Translations of 1 Corinthians 6:9 from various versions of the Bible
1 Timothy 1

[cantstandbush]

9. I suggest reading all those passages in context...who is speaking and for

whom. Who is being addressed and why. Certainly, incest had its historic place in the Bible and must have been ok in the beginning.

[Wickerman]

12. I think the page lifted from

does a very nice job of explaining both the liberal and conservative approach to reading the bible. The emphasis is on the progressive perspective so I find this site a decent place to start.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Thank gawd all those straight fundamentalists don't want

to replace the constitution with the bible - wink, wink!

[applegrove]

7. I think on the groud, christian fundamentalists are a whole lot more

conflicted than you give them credit for..

[rkc3]

8. There are more verses in Leviticus pertaining to the care of leather

goods than in regards to homosexuality. I don't hear them espousing the virtues of mink oil every Sunday.

[pnwmom]

11. But zero to lesbians. Too bad, guys.

[JackBeck]

13. I love the story of Jonathan and David.

Especially the part when they're out in a field, naked, and embracing.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. There is also female same sex love

Ruth said, "Entreat me not to leave you or to return from following you; for where you go I will go, and where you lodge I will lodge; your people shall be my people, and your God my God; where you die I will die, and there will I be buried. May the LORD do so to me and more also if even death parts me from you." Ruth 1:16-17

Granted, it is not as overtly sexual as the several passages of Jonathan and David, but then the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures weren't exactly cognizant of female sexuality.

It is also interesting to note that in the apocryphal book of Judith, the title character single-handedly assassinates the chief general of Nebuchadnezzar's army, saves the Jews from destruction, becomes exceptionally wealthy from the booty she steals from the now dead Holofernes, then spends the rest of her days refusing to marry and living with her "maidservant." Very few power dykes could boast of a resume like that.

[kweerwolf]

23. Speaking of Jonathan and David ...

... I had a rather heated debate with fundie once who insisted the Bible was to be taken literally (especially for the verses she claimed that pertained to homosexuality). I asked her about the story of Jonathan and David and how they were viewed favorably in God's eyes. She got all flustered and claimed that text wasn't meant as scripture, but was poetry, and as such it wasn't meant to be taken literally.

Not surprisingly, she failed to see her own contradition ... but such is cognitive dissonance, I guess.

[ShalachEtAmi]

18. Me too..

When does the movie come out? :evilgrin:

And who will the lead actors be?

I vote Ryan Philippe as Jonathan....Matt Dillon as David...

[ThomCat]

19. Matt Dillon?

I never saw whatever it was that other people saw in him.

Do you have a second choice to play oposite Ryan Philippe? :P

[ShalachEtAmi]

20. Cmon ,you never saw the 2 of them together as 2 cops in `Crash`?

Yummy....

[ThomCat]

21. Have you seen Matt Dillon recently?

[JackBeck]

22. Get a load of this...

My husband's first name is Jonathan. And his middle name is David.

Hawt!