What is going through YOUR mind reading the posts on DU re: the Gates arrest?

[ruggerson]

and Obama's response to it.

[MineralMan]

1. I don't know about anyone else, but I described my thinking

in one of the dozen or so other threads on the subject.

[ruggerson]

4. I specifically posted in GLBT,

Mineral Man, 'tho you're more than welcome to pontificate.

[MineralMan]

9. Yes, I noticed that. Where's the GLBT issue in this

story? I can't find it anywhere. Race? Yes. Police overreaction? Yes. GLBT issues? Not that I can find.

So, I wonder why you posted it here.

[ruggerson]

12. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8543969#8543995

[MineralMan]

13. And I was to know about that post exactly how?

You're really stretching here to assume that anyone read your post late in that thread.

Sorry. I'll leave it alone. Mindreading isn't one of my skillz.

[ruggerson]

14. read the title of the OP

it's asking GLBT DU'ers how they feel about DU's reaction to the event. Not about the event itself.

[MineralMan]

15. Never mind.

I read DU from the Latest page. I've seen many posts on this subject, and there appears to be no unified reaction from DU. What do you think DU's reaction is. I've been reading threads on this all day, and I wouldn't presume to offer something up as DU's reaction.

Again, I don't read minds. Explain what you're talking about if you want to hear what people think about what you're talking about, please.

[ruggerson]

16. I'm not sure

why you're predisposed to be hostile over a simple question. I deliberately didn't want to lead with my own opinion. But, hey, whatever floats your boat.

[MineralMan]

17. Your question wasn't clear at all. Had you posted a link to

what prompted it, I would have understood. Lacking that, it just looked like another thread on this topic, with no visible link to the GLBT community. It's easy to forget that not everyone is following everything on DU. Providing some background information is a useful thing to do, since it lets people figure out what you're asking.

Now that I see the link, I more or less understand what you're asking, and wouldn't have posted at all in the thread.

[ruggerson]

18. No problem - I get what you're saying

my understanding is that could have been interpreted as "calling out" an individual or individuals. Plus I didn't want to influence any responses. You have a valid point in that I may have erred on the side of being too broad.

[bbinacan]

2. That many have a

knee-jerk reaction without reading the stories around this "issue".

[xchrom]

3. obama was correct -- it's simply sad

to the subsequent reaction to a very real every day reality.

and i say this as a person who A} is not an obama fan -- and B} is frustrated as hell with him lgbtiq people.

[donco6]

5. Am I allowed to say? Or is this a trick question?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6132592&mesg_id=6132592

[ruggerson]

7. I'm interested

in how GLBT folks of all colors have reacted to it. So, not a trick question in the least.

[Betty Karlson]

8. Are you by any chance angling

for a comment along the lines of:

"Now when that raid was done on that gay bar in Texas the president could have used some prime time too and weighed in on the issue so why didn't he"?

I surmise that this issue is just closer to the president's heart. He shares an important characteristic with professor Gates (and a legal background), whereas the closest he gets to relating with GLBT people is discussing bailouts with Barney Frank.

[ruggerson]

10. well he wouldn't have probably brought it up had he not been asked

so I don't think that's a valid criticism of Obama.

I did post somewhat along the lines of what you're getting at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8543969#8544613

My criticism is really about the hypocrisy of some DU'ers, but I wanted to hear other opinions.

[mitchtv]

24. as in the reply #7? on that post

transparent

[ruggerson]

25. ain't it?

[monmouth]

6. Professor Gates was far too polite....n/t

[stray cat]

11. I didn't see the incident nor do I know the participants to appropriately gauge their perspective

I think I would like to know what the exchange really involved - but then I like to know as much as I can about the facts before judging someone.

[insleeforprez]

19. Ding ding ding

We have a winner!

[Prism]

20. The posts or the arrest?

On the arrest, I think it was more a "contempt of cop" incident rather than racially motivated. Stupid no matter what the ultimate rationale. The President's comments were fine. I wish, perhaps, he had been a little more politic in their expression so the health care nature of his press conference didn't end up swept under the rug. But, the media will do what it does.

On the posts . . . I suspect you know what I'll say.

I'll simply say this. I know a lot of people are hurting and distressed because of the racial issues that have arisen due to the arrest, and out of respect for those people I've chosen not to take the opportunity to let my personal grinding axe fly in a manner I would really rather like to at the moment. The impulse for petty, karmic tit for tat has been running a little strong in me today, and I've been attempting to do all I can to resist.

Suffice to say, it is breath-taking to witness the hypocrisy of certain individuals who are upset with the Exact Same Tactics and the Exact Same Attitudes they themselves projected towards the LGBT community as recently as last week.

Bigotry and discrimination in any form is unacceptable and distressing, and it is simply a sad commentary that people outraged, upset, and furious today were happily and vigorously jamming their own bigoted thumbs in our eyes without giving it a second thought.

I wish people would understand that all discrimination and injustice are related and that we should be upset by it just the same. When we respond to it only when it is relevant to our own identities, then we're not being particularly empathetic or compassionate people. In fact, quite the opposite. We are quite readily and actively adopting the Republican ethic. "I only care if this so happens to affect me."

The President does not escape some of this either. He is understandably angered by racial discrimination, and that anger was very clear and present in his words and tone. You know when he gets worked up about something. That is an anger and determination I never see in him when he speaks on LGBT issues. I think it is somewhat related to his inaction and apparent blithe unconcern for our equality.

The past 24 hours have been clarifying in this way for me.

[ruggerson]

21. the posts

and you expressed it beautifully, as usual. The sheer amount and depth of hypocrisy is both overwhelming and disgusting.

[Prism]

22. You know what you're not seeing on DU today?

One single person screaming "Poutrage!" and complaining about ponies.

And I would have sharp words for anyone who did in response to the Gates incident. It would be inappropriate, heartless, and wrong.

[ruggerson]

23. bingo

n/t

[NMMNG]

26. Just goes to show you

where we rank in the grand scheme of things.

[Toasterlad]

31. I Can't Stand When Black People Play Oppression Olympics

Let's not indulge in them ourselves, okay?

The fact that we have it extremely shitty in this country does not mean that black people do not also have it shitty. With the exception of one poster (that I've seen), no one is claiming that gays have it easier than blacks.

People SHOULD be outraged over what happened to Gates. The fact that people should be outraged about what happens to US, and are NOT, shouldn't lessen the Gates outrage. Sadly, there is MORE than enough outrage to go around in this world.

[Prism]

32. I think you misunderstand a little

My intention and points aren't about Oppression Olympics, about who has it worse in the country, who endures more suffering. I agree with you that is a zero sum game and serves as little more than a divisive distraction.

My point, in a nutshell, is how some people can very deeply care about discrimination when it affects themselves, but perpetuate discrimination when it doesn't, and yet somehow not piece together that the discrimination is related and hurts other people just as much as they're hurt by what affects them.

It's about fostering mutual empathy rather than comparing wounds.

[Toasterlad]

33. I Agree With You.

However, who's hypocrisy are you trying to expose, here? What evidence do you have that anyone outraged over the Gates incident (with the exception of one bigoted poster) isn't equally outraged over the treatment of gay people in this country? If none, you are making a broad assumption about a group of people, namely, African-Americans and their supporters. The kind of thing which pisses us off to no end when it's done to us.

Yes, there is wide-spread homophobia in the African-American community, fostered by ignorant and hateful religious institutions looking to profit by turning one community against another. Yes, there are white people who care deeply about injustices perpetrated against black people who turn a blind eye to injustices suffered by gays. But it's not fair - and, in the Gates case, it is not appropriate - to use an injustice suffered by black people to bemoan the lack of attention paid to the outrages gay people suffer regularly.

If we truly want mutual empathy, we should be empathizing with those outraged over Gates, not calling them out for not caring enough about us.

[Prism]

34. It isn't really about attention

Although I think that is a valid point, and I think Ruggerson pointed out the disparity well by noting no one much cared about the raid the bar in Texas which highlighted the LGBT community's own tumultuous relationship with law enforcement. People will be interested in what affects them personally, and beating on the drum for attention on a message board is often a futile act.

When writing my thoughts, I did have quite a few posters in mind, who were always hassling the LGBT community in the most hostile, dismissive language possible, who are now deeply upset about the Gates situation. I note above the petty impulse to go tit for tat, to bounce around threads throwing their own words and attitudes down in response to the pain they're feeling. That's a bad, jerkish impulse, so after calming down and thinking on it, I tried a more constructive tack.

If I were honestly interested in a divisive flamewar, I could've easily gone wild with call-outs, pasting links to LGBT threads where the posters expressed the opposite sentiment of the ones they're now applying to Gates. Rather than open that can of worms, I thought a generalized approach would be much better and allow for more dialogue.

My aim in it is the hope that the next time the LGBT community finds itself specifically under siege by a political development or highly visible media event, people who have hassled or dismissed us in the past will give another think, maybe be a little more willing to realize that we spend a lot of time occupying each others' shoes, that it's about how these issues affect us on the human level instead of the political one.

I realize this is DU. Some people will listen, some people will hear, and some people will simply dig in. But that's a hazard of the trade.

[tbyg52]

35. Bravo and amen. nt

[Toasterlad]

38. See Post #37

[Prism]

39. It's really no bother

Until I started reading and posting regularly a couple months ago, I wouldn't have been able to keep track of individual posters either. I just finished work and have, quite literally, nothing to do until the middle of next month. It allows me to get much deeper into DU than I think the vast majority of posters do.

So your "Wha?" reaction is normal. The amount of time I spend here is the real problem =)

[TankLV]

45. of course ignoring the fact that there are black GAY people...

[enigmatic]

27. great post

Perfectly put.

[donco6]

29. And, as usual, all I can add is "What Prism Said." n/t

[lightningandsnow]

28. What was the point of posting this in GLBT?

Sorry, you guys...I'm not going to claim we're the Number 1 Oppressed Minority Group (TM).

Is this productive?

[Toasterlad]

30. It's a Response To an African-American Poster Claiming Gay People Have It Easy Compared to Blacks

And while that post was bigoted and narrow-minded, I'd agree that this thread serves no good purpose. The Gates incident has nothing to do with GLBT people, no matter who tries to rope us into it.

[ruggerson]

36. actually that wasn't it

and her color is irrelevant.

Her post was only one part of the picture, although her words were indeed ridiculous and offensive.

What I was seeing were many people who routinely and angrily dismiss homophobia on these forums with phrases like "i want my pony" and far worse, suddenly becoming miraculously sensitive to bigotry when it involved a black man getting arrested for no good reason by a white cop.

These offenders are white, black, brown - whatever - their race has nothing to do with it. The double standard is what is glaring, not their skin color.

And there are not just a few of them, it's a whole crew. They're hypocrites and worse.

[Toasterlad]

37. Sorry. Clearly I Am Missing Something.

While I'm definitely well aware of the assholes who are quick to shout us down when we raise a protest, I don't know most of them by name, so I didn't recognize them rushing to condemn bigotry against black people.

I shouldn't have presumed to speak for you. My apologies.

[ruggerson]

40. no prob

sadly I read DU enough at night so that I could identify twenty or more of them off the top of my head. Prism did a much better job than I expressing the point in his post in GD-P.

[noiretextatique]

41. i'm appalled by the people who support the policeman's actions

at DU. there are many posts here in support of the police. you can cherry pick if you like, but id wager you will find more support for gates' arrest than support for the post you chose to highlight.

[ruggerson]

42. not sure I follow you

nor am I sure which post you're referring to that I highlighted.

What I meant to say (and obviously I didn't do a great job of it) was that I was seeing a huge disconnect, in that some of the posters getting very upset about the Gates case are some of the exact same posters who get viciously angry and hostile towards gay people when homophobia is the topic. Thus, I see a huge double standard, in that they don't see that discrimination is discrimination is discrimination (to paraphrase someone we know and love.)

And yes it bothers me too that so many defended the cop in a knee jerk fashion. Racial profiling is an omnipresentn reality of life for black folks in the U.S. and to pretend that it didn't play a part in this case is to have blinders on.

[noiretextatique]

43. who are these people?

perhaps i don't notice them or purposely ignore them. i do notice the people who are consistently progressive on most issues...they are my allies. i cannot expect, nor do i expect, all Duers to be allies. sad, but true.

[ruggerson]

44. I'm not going to start calling them out

by name, but I will gladly address them from now on when I see it and I'll PM you to alert you to it.

Obviously, others besides me have seen this phenomena as Prism's post in GD-P
articulately points out.