I am a VERY, VERY angry Homosexual today

[LostinVA]

I fucking mean it. That disgusting brief, written by a MORMON, which compares marriage equality to INCEST and denies us our rights because of a FUCKING BOTTOM LINE, is bad enough. But, to read posts defending this fucked up poo on DEMOCRATIC Underground? By non-troll posters?

WTF?

Shameful.

[FreeState]

1. +1 :( n/t

[Downtown Hound]

2. Who's been defending it?

Shame on all of you that have been.

[nichomachus]

29. Quite a few people, actually

It's not Obama's fault because he didn't write it with his own fountain pen. They had no choice. They had to do this. (Apparently, there's some federal law that requires the DOJ to compare gay marriage to incest and child molestation.) It's no big deal. Obama's playing chess. We just need to wait until 2010, when they've absolutely promised that they might try to repeal it. It's just a phony issue "ginned up" by Obama haters.

And they just keep recycling that horse shit over and over.

The list of talking points has become quite obvious. You're seeing them on all the blogs -- not just here -- and they are strikingly similar in illogic, language and tone. I'm guessing Rahm faxed them out about 10:30 or 11 this morning.

[earth mom]

101. Yep, the O administration is doing damage control.

:puke:

[Mika]

3. Links?

Can you please post some links to the thread(s) you are referring to.

:hi:

[LostinVA]

5. Against DU rules to link

[Mika]

9. WTF? Since when?

:wtf:

[LostinVA]

10. Always

[Duncan Grant]

8. Proceed directly to GD.

Check just about any thread on this topic.

[LostinVA]

11. +1

[QC]

15. It's all the usual cheerleaders, the ones who, if Obama ate a baby,

would rush to DU to declare that it was a brilliant political move far beyond the comprehension of dullards like us, and besides, the baby wanted to be eaten anyway.

You know, them.

[dropkickpa]

24. And don't forget, he's only been in office for 4 months

Cut him some slack, everyone eats at least one baby in their first year in office, and look what Bush left him with, who can blame him? :banghead:

[LostinVA]

25. lol

[QC]

32. Very true. And it's not like there's a shortage of babies anyway. n/t

[dropkickpa]

36. It'd be 3 babies by now if it were Bush, so were doing GREAT!

[QC]

50. And would you rather have McCain eating babies right now? n/t

[Starry Messenger]

55. lol

[Veruca Salt]

54. I'm sure it'd just be... A Modest Proposal

[LostinVA]

57. Ex English Major!!!

[Veruca Salt]

60. Haven't you mentioned you're of Irish decent too??

If so, that's perfect, you can break it down for us in a good old English dissertation!

I mean, we gays are apparently only good for our money and can't be given equal rights because that would be a strain on government finances, yes? Well next up shall be eating the children of the poor because they are a burden on the government finances too! I think QC is onto something here!

Oh man, someone stop me while I'm ahead!

[LostinVA]

62. Yes!

Is your name from the book or the band?

[Veruca Salt]

103. Mostly from the band

but a bit from the book as well! I thought it was quite fitting, and though it may seem a bit mean, I picked it back when I was only a reader of DU and couldn't figure out a handle to use... and people were referring to Hillary as Veruca Salt and hence my screen name was born! :)

[QC]

59. And why not? A young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing,

and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.

[sam kane]

95. The ingested babies show that Obama cares about climate change

population control is his answer for global warming, anyone who complains about dead babies doesn't care about our planet. Plus, he didn't kill them or cook them, anyone who says so is decietful.

[QC]

96. Exactly. He didn't kill the baby--he only ate it.

Someone who works for him, but over him he has absolutely no control, did the actual killing.

[OKNancy]

4. I wrote a lot of posts in several threads

I hope you don't think those of us who responded approve of DOMA in any way.

My main point was that Obama can't do anything about it until Congress gets off it's butt and repeals the law.
I haven't given up on Obama yet. I didn't support him in the primaries, but I think he is on the right track about many things. I also get the feeling that so many people built him up to be something he never was.

I remember in the primary days saying that I liked him but he sure did seem "churchy" and that bothered me.

Anyway, I really understand what my friends here are upset about. As the mother of a gay child, it hits close to home.

[LostinVA]

7. Not you

Some of your posts irked me a bit (as I'm sure some of mine do!), but you didn't defend it.

[OKNancy]

17. Good

I think what got my ire up was the over-the-top headline in the americablog post. If it had just said the DOJ or the administration, it wouldn't have been so irritating.

However, since the posts first hit and I've had to do a few errands, I am feeling regretful that I even posted.
I realized that in my efforts to provide a less emotional source, it probably looked really bad. Also the more I read, the more pissed I'm getting!

.

[LostinVA]

20. That's what irked me!

I first saw the one thread when it was pretty full, so your posts came across like that. I KNOW you have a gay child, so I didn't go Nuclear Gay on you (although I agree with Thom below -- Obama can do something, but he doesn't want to).

[ThomCat]

12. But Obama CAN do something. He is the head of the party and he stands

at the Bully Pulpit. He can use it! He could be rallying support to overturn DOMA. Instead he's silent. Worse than that, his administration is only speaking up to OPPOSE our rights, such as when they submit briefs against overturning DADT.

:wtf:

The party takes it's lead from HIM while he's in office. If he's not going to get off his ass to stand up for LGBT rights then neither are they, and his loyal supporters (that would be people like you) will let him get away with it.

This idea that Obama can't do anything is a very shallow excuse. :(

[paulsby]

49. this is false. not legally corect

first of all, obama can SAY anything. start with "I am against DOMA. i think it is bad legislation"

[ruggerson]

6. word

[angstlessk]

13. I have NOT defended the ruling..I have defended voting for a Democrat over a repug...ONLY

HELL I am on your side...but come 2012 I would still vote for Obama over say...Palin or Newt!

[nichomachus]

31. But if a Repug filed this brief

and they would have had no problem doing it, since it made all their arguments -- probably better than they could have -- the opposition to it on DU would be 100 percent. There would be no one here trying to justify it, minimize it, ridicule people who were upset by it, or anything.

[RufusTFirefly]

42. Welcome to the wonderful world of cognitive dissonance

If certain uncritical Obama boosters actually acknowledged some of the duplicitous and/or disappointing stuff that the president has done in our name, their heads would explode.

[donco6]

68. And everyone knows this is true.

It's appalling what hero-worship can do to the mind.

[QC]

74. Obama certainly got his money's worth out of those "behavioral scientists."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1889153,00.html

[Q3JR4]

111. ....

Q3JR4
Cthulhu 2012! Why vote for the lesser of two evils?

[billyoc]

14. Ah, but this is the new and IMPROVED Democratic picture thread emporium

And DNC fanboy meetup site.

[QC]

16. LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!11!!!1

[LostinVA]

21. lol

I ALWAYS :lol: when you post that!

[mix]

18. shameful indeed n/t

[Not Me]

19. PLEASED to elevate to the Greatest

Obama is one of the biggest disappointments of my life.

I gotta say, I got taken in big time with his bullshit.

[LostinVA]

22. I am a horrible cynic -- the Irish in me!

So, I'm not disappointed, just angry.

[dropkickpa]

26. Me either

I pretty much expected this stuff, sad to say.

[LostinVA]

28. I just expected a DADT bone

[dropkickpa]

41. Me too

He actually CAN do that very easily and he just. won't. do. it.

[foxfeet]

45. Guess it was wise to keep my sig line.

I'd considered changing it after the election, but no way, now.

[ThomCat]

23. The fact that ANYONE in Obama's Administration could write that Brief

and not get FIRED for it immediately is OUTRAGEOUS. :nuke:

A lawyer for our justice department, under a Democratic Administration compared gay marriage to Pedophilia, said that Loving vs Virginia should not apply as a precedent to us because because it's okay to discriminate against some groups, and claimed that DOMA doesn't discriminate because unmarried straight people aren't married either...

:wtf:

Ann Coulter could have written that Brief! :grr:

If this is the view that the Obama Administration is supporting and pushing behind the scenes then they are determined to set us back an entire generation. :(

[LostinVA]

27. Yup, disgraceful

Did you know the one author is LDS?

[ThomCat]

38. No, but I don't think that's surprising.

It's as if he saw the Mormons taking the leadership roll against us, so who else would he put on a case dealing with our rights? Duh! A Mormon Homophobe! :grr:

We knew he was filling out the Office of Faith Based Initiatives with a lot of homophobic people. Now we know he's putting them in other departments too. He has appointed at least 1 homophobic Mormon lawyer to the Department of Justice in the Civil Rights Division. I wonder how many other homophobes he has appointed in the DoJ, and how bad or how deep it goes?

We now know that we can't expect the DoJ to do Jack Shit for us for the next 4 years. :grr:

[donco6]

69. My thoughts exactly.

It's disgusting.

[DURHAM D]

30. Hey Lost -

You are not supposed to be angry - you are supposed to be proud. Our fierce advocate declared June as National Gay Pride Month.

Buck up girl and take to the streets. See you at the march on Washington in the fall.

[LostinVA]

37. I feel so ashamed now -- thank you

:pals:

[nichomachus]

33. I wonder if the defenders realize

that they're only making it worse. They're not really helping their idol.

[Neecy]

34. I'm pretty pissed, too

And honestly, I've been trying to avoid - even against all common sense and logic - the conclusion that Obama is, if not an outright homophobe, at least not comfortable with our community.

We know about McClurkin and Warren...and his little jokes, including getting married in Iowa and not wanting a "girly dog" in the White House. We know he doesn't think that we're deserving of marriage equality. We know that once the election was over that not only did he fail to be a 'fierce advocate' but he's been a complete triangulating coward.

Is he a homophobe? I'm starting to think so. An outright bigot.

[LostinVA]

39. Whoa -- good for you for taking a stand!

[NMMNG]

35. Words can't describe how sick I am, and pissed.

But I'm not at all surprised.

[WillParkinson]

40. My dear Lost...

Chess!
Rah-rah!
Pony!
Pom-poms!
Teh Gay!
Huzzah!

Which part aren't you getting?

[LostinVA]

43. I really wanted a Shetland Pony -- I was gonna name him Haggis

[Bluenorthwest]

47. No room for haggis

plate's too full.

[cboy4]

44. ++++++++1

:grr:

[pinto]

46. Repeal DOMA.

That DOJ's brief apparently comes from their take on states' sovereignty to establish marriage laws and the non-transferability of marriages legal in one state to another, where they would be illegal. One of DOMA's components exempts one state from recognizing the legality of a marriage from another state.

Smelt and Hammer were arguing that their legal CA marriage (which no one disputes) should be legal in all states. Clearly a gutsy federal constitutional challenge. One that would probably fail without some ruling that DOMA is unconstitutional or a legislative repeal of DOMA itself.

i.e. some of the cited precedents in DOJ's brief -

First cousins, married in Italy, were not legal in N.J.;

A 16 year old married woman, legal in one state, was "unmarried" in another, her marriage was illegal; among a few.

I don't know how these briefs are developed. Someone should have told DOJ lawyers to find less inflammatory cases to cite, if available, and a less inflammatory line of reasoning if they were going to defend DOMA in the first place in Smelt v United States of America.

The official notices on the case, up to appeal is here. A brief summary of Plaintiffs' arguments start on page 5. -

http://www.scribd.com/doc/15097245/Smelt-v-United-State...

I think pressure on the President and the Congress to address DOMA as legislation, mentioned by Solmonese at the HRC today, is a good tack to take in the short term. There are more legal tests of DOMA (and DADT as well) coming down the pike. Legislative action is another piece of the picture.

“The Administration apparently determined that it had a duty to defend DOMA in the courts. The president has just as strong a duty to put his principles into action, and end discrimination against LGBT people and our families,” said HRC President Joe Solmonese. “We call on the President to send legislation repealing DOMA to Congress,” he added.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3920093

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Disgusting language which they used by choice

making arguments they hand picked. Revolting.

[Duncan Grant]

51. Not one word or citation is an accident. It's all calibrated for maximum impact.

It's time for moderate, sensible, pragmatic LGBT people to ally with progressive LGBT activists whenever and however possible. Agreed?

[pinto]

65. I agree. See my comment -

These constitutional challenges are convoluted and lengthy. As they ought to be, I guess. It's part of our process.

Yet legislative action is a (somewhat) simpler thing. We need the message. We need the votes.

You know what I think is neat? There's a role for the edge and a role for the center.

My political advocacy is primarily in the health care and AIDS arenas. ACT UP was the headline component, the cutting edge, the folks that made AIDS an "issue" in the press. They did an awesome job.

I took another tack. A position in determining how Ryan White funds would be allocated in my county.

ACT UP helped us get these funds by their advocacy, helped define the issue. The Ryan White Act was federal and rippled through the states.

Funding, once secured, was another piece of the process. We had to determine how it was spent.

[Duncan Grant]

70. And each looks out for the other's best interests.

We can't dismiss each other's tactics or strategies -- an important thing to remember. This homophobic stranglehold on civil equality must end now. We need the support of the LGBT mods, pinto. I'm beggin' you to be a unflinching advocate.

Best wishes,
DG :hi:

[lapfog_1]

52. Ok, he is a homophobe...

A lot of folks suspected it in the primaries when he had that horrible anti-gay preacher at one of his rallies. Then again there was the Rick Warren inauguration flap... then the failure to do "something" (I was never clear what exactly) about Prop H8, then the failure to immediately do away with DADT (but no suggestions as to what to replace it with that doesn't break the law... and there IS a law here)... and now the Justice Dept. filing a brief in defense of DOMA.

Ok. Homophobe. Now what?

Take your support to some other candidate? which would mean either the repuke nominee or a 3rd party. Or just stay home and wait 8 more years...

Or... try to change his mind and get him NOT to be such an ass.

I'm not going to defend the filing of the brief. The administration can say whatever it wants about needing to overturn the law, blah, blah, blah... but that doesn't mean that they MUST argue the merits of the current law. And certainly not to the degree that been reported here (I haven't seen the brief yet).

But, seriously, Now what?

I'm disappointed with Obama on a whole host of other issues, from the war in Iraq to the people he surrounded himself with for his financial policies, to the "stimulus" bill that didn't seem all that "stimulating" to a real lack of leadership (other than nice speeches) on doing something about energy, to the EFCA delay, to the probable no single payer health care (which will still, in all probability, leave ME out... and unable to get any health care until I qualify for medicare)... and I'm sure I've left a few out of my list. Still, he has done more in 5 months to help the middle east than anyone else in my memory, he is doing SOMETHING about Afghan-Paki-stan, and has fired the first shot in the Palestinian/Israeli disputes... and while the stimulus isn't all that I hoped for, at least it wasn't just another "trickle down" tax cut for the wealthy... which would have been the alternative, and just think what McCain would be doing right now with the Supreme Court nomination (sure, Souter might have tried to hang around for 4 more, but he wanted OUT... and probably wasn't going to wait forever for the Dems to get someone else in the White House)...

Not to mention that Obama hasn't really done HIS part in grafting a spine into Reid or Pelosi... I mean with all that has come out about torture, Cheney, Rummy, and their neocon lawyer assholes should all be sitting around wondering who they can give up to avoid jail time... but that ain't happening either.

Obama wants to be liked by everyone... and looks to be headed to a place where no one likes him. And he should know better. He tried the bi-partisan shit and look what it gets him... the RW hate machine is on overdrive and spitting out potential assassins at an alarming rate (remember that guy that took all that money out of his bank account and drove off saying it was time "take out the President"???, but that story has been wiped by the next one of the NEXT RW asshole who actually shoots someone). Anyway, there isn't any making nice with the wingers... and they are ALL wingers (almost all). But he is still wasting his time trying to get them on board. I don't know what drives this desire for unity and cooperation. Perhaps it was his time as community organizer, perhaps it runs deeper than that. For sure, that's something Bush never bothered to worry about.

So that's my list of gripes. I'm sure I'm leaving out a few...

What should *I* do? Give up and work for a third party in 2012? Not do anything... and not even vote... vote for a Republican (I rather just kill myself now)... wait until 2016 to become active again? What?

[MNBrewer]

56. Change isn't enough.

Transformation is what's required and Obama is incapable of providing the leadership required on the issue of equality for homosexuals.

[lapfog_1]

58. I think he is VERY CAPABLE of providing leadership

and he also has the majorities in the Senate and House to do some things (though perhaps not all one could hope for as many of our Dems act more and more like Republicans of 20 years ago).

He chooses NOT to.

And, in a lot of ways, that's worse... and that's why there is the profound disappointment in this thread.

[MNBrewer]

61. I hear what you're saying.

The reason I'm saying he's "incapable" is that he's chosen to believe that gays (etc) don't deserve marriage. He could choose equality, but he doesn't.

He chooses inequality, which, for the time being, renders him incapable of leading on the subject.

[Veruca Salt]

53. +1

:mad:

[jonnyblitz]

63. there are some truly fucking VILE Obama supporters here at DU.

truly.

[nashville_brook]

64. amen.

[RandomKoolzip]

66. But...but...chess! He's playing chess!

Right everybody?! He's playing chess! And there's more pressing concerns, like which Broadway shows to attend!

Plus, he's the smartest guy in the room! And he's playing chess!


CHESS!!!

[QC]

75. And he's so dreeeeeeeeeamy when he takes his shirt off! n/t

[MNBrewer]

76. Chess is great,..... if you're not the Pawn!

[donco6]

67. The excuses are astonishing:

"Obama didn't write it."

Well, Obama doesn't push every goddam button in government, but he is responsible for it. How anyone could think that excuse absolves him from blame is beyond me.

"The DOJ HAD to defend the law."

There's a lot of argument back and forth on this, and I'm not convinced. But in any event, there was no excuse for using the incest bullshit. That makes the Rick Warren slap look like a high-five.

"They're really busy solving all the Bush problems."

But not too busy to write a supremely insulting brief.

"They purposely wrote a crappy brief because they want to lose."

And they did it while playing two simultaneous games of 3D Vulcan chess.

[Chovexani]

71. I'm fully convinced Obama could carry out a child sacrifice in the Capitol rotunda

And people on here would cheer about how he's reaching out to the Molochian community and a certain person would post gleeful pictures of the event squeeing about how dreamy he looked when he was tearing kid hearts out. And of course there would be the Helpful Post explaining that reasonable people can disagree on it.

This site is Free Republic spray painted blue now, if there was ever any doubt, it's gone today.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

72. Lostinva told me to post this for her: "lol"

We only have one laptop right now.

[donco6]

73. Yep.

And they'd have 16 documented reasons it's A-OK.

And 20 people telling us not to whine about it.

[MNBrewer]

77. The Central Committee has it under control!

[QC]

78. Best post ever! n/t

[ruggerson]

110. I dare you to post that in GD-P

:P

Cause, unfortunately, you're absolutely right.

[Irishonly]

79. I Was Angry

I have been so disappointed in the ignoring of civil rights. I guess I was pretty naive as I believed DADT would be history by now as well as DOMA from what I heard during the campaign. I listened closely and the surging in Afghanistan didn't surprise me and some of his appointments didn't either. I wasn't dancing in the streets but I never also knew Obama was not as progressive as I was.

I wrote and protested Warren and that did a whole lot.:-( I don't understand how you can call yourself a fierce advocate and then stand silent. I wish I could do more.

[DURHAM D]

80. Hey Lost - Alert! TheBigotBasher has just arrived on the main page.

He has apparently missed or chosen to ignore all of today's discussions and is attempting to provide a defense for Obama.

Go have fun children and don't play nice.

[LostinVA]

81. lol -- check PM

[xchrom]

82. recommend -- from another angry gay person. nt

[Pale Blue Dot]

83. And another from an angry straight person. nt.

[dickthegrouch]

84. Repeat after me: MARCH ON WASHINGTON

October 10th 2009

Does *anyone* believe we don't need it?

[mitchtv]

85. Beyond angry

Vindicated is more like it . I never filled in the empty "HOPE" slot. Never trusted him, never will:argh:

[ZombieHorde]

86. Your anger is justified, but I wish you peace.

:hug:

[Starry Messenger]

87. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

Another angry straight person. What a fucking nightmare. Welcome to the new bureaucratic theocracy.

[ruggerson]

90. ...

:hug:

[Starry Messenger]

92. ...

:hug:

[Clintonista2]

88. PUMA!!!!!!!!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

89. lol

[bluedawg12]

91. Reading the brief "marriage" is an important word after all?!

It's one of the bases they claim the suit has no standing, because they are not recognized as married.



right wing logic.

[NWHarkness]

93. "Obama didn't write it"

And Bush didn't pour water down anyone's throat.

[LostinVA]

94. May I use this?

BEST analogy I've seen yet.

[NWHarkness]

98. Be my guest

[QC]

97. And I have it on good authority that Bush did not drop bombs on Iraq.

Neither did Cheney.

Other people did it.

[happydreams]

99. Not gay for a day eh. .....

Who said its not temperaMENTAL.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

100. Huh?

That makes zero sense.

[Bluebear]

104. ?

[queerart]

106. They Are Just Being A "Gay Baiter"........ (nt)

[earth mom]

102. I don't blame you. I'm sick of all of the rah rah bullshit too. nt

[greeneyedboy]

105. i am tired of being told to shut up -- by OUR side.

Funny thing: when I express an opinion that Obama is caving on health care, or on torture, I get unanimous support and agreement from my left-of-center/progressive/Dem. allies.

But when I express dissatisfaction with his "separate but equal" pandering on civil rights, I get lectured by the same so-called allies and told to shut up.

Regardless of the issue, I will stand with my progressive allies to keep up the pressure on his administration to bring forward the BEST progressive policies--even on issues that don't directly affect me personally. I'd appreciate it if my allies would have my back in the same way.

[rusty charly]

107. I removed

my Obama sticker from my car today.

[QC]

109. Mail it to the White House. n/t

[Name removed]

108. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

112. I'm With Ya LostinVA

Yeah. I'mm vry pissed-off too and disgusted with Obama. Yes. I knew it was likely coming and that he'd do nothing to help us but the knowldg doesn't do anything to cool the anger.

[LostinVA]

113. OOOO -- a deleted subthread I didn't see!

Can someone PM me what it was?

I hope it included something about my Shetland Pony "Haggis."