The condescension of strait, white males.

[SarahB]

It seems like several times in the past few days, post have been made by strait, white middle class males who do NOT understand why people are upset. Essentially telling the silly GLBT people and women to calm down and CONTINUALLY compromise for a greater good. They give up NOTHING. It's pretty damn easy to ask others to give up THEIR rights when you are the status quo in terms of power.

It seems like there's consistently two philosophies in work here. One is compromise at all costs for the sake of inclusion (no matter the morality of those being included). The second is to stand up for what it right at the risk of "offending" bigots. Change comes from vocal minorities and yes, it can be slow, but to ask people to just shut up and take it over and over? :wtf:

I'm tired. So fucking tired. Any more, I really can't get into on a public forum because of personal realities. I do feel grateful that not every strait, white male is like this though. Still. The world sucks. :(

[readmoreoften]

1. I find it interesting that no one is disturbed by the fact that this guy is rabidly anti-choice.

Perhaps that's because they know if Obama tries to push an anti-choicer through, it'll be the end of the Democratic party.

[Taverner]

2. I don't like Warren, but to me he's just going to talk to his invisible friend for a few minutes

Now if they guy has any say in policy...hope he chokes on that hot dog...

[jobycom]

7. He's not going to be talking to an invisible friend.

He's going to be talking to every single American.

[Taverner]

Yeah and a lot of us won't be listening...

Of course that gives me an awesome Protest idea

Those who are in attendance should all TURN THEIR BACKS once he stats yappin

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

14. Ooh, I had the same idea. I like it.

[jobycom]

16. Many will. For many, this may be the first exposure to this man and his arguments.

We act as though everyone out there is as informed as we are. How many people who have never thought about these issues--marriage equality, choice, anti-science Creationism, appeals for the assassination of President Ahmadinejad, etc--beyond the gut reaction they've been conditioned to have are going to hear him pray and feel vindicated because President Obama invited him special? Even those who have already hardened their hearts and closed their minds are going to feel vindicated, as though even Obama justifies their attitudes.

If Bush invited this man to pray at the White House or Capitol, not a person here would defend it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. And in his invocation he will not even menion

marriage equality, choice, anti-science Creationism, appeals for the assassination of President Ahmadinejad, etc.

The 'people' will be no more exposed to his ideas after than they were before.

Tempest in a teapot.

[jobycom]

31. You sure? And what if he doesn't?

It will still give legitimacy to him, and through him, his ideas.

Not a tempest in a teapot. It's a middle finger to liberals.

[yardwork]

33. That's what Obama said about Donnie McClurkin and then Donnie had a half-hour to rant.

Those of us who contacted the Obama campaign to express concern about Donnie McClurkin being given a platform at an Obama event in South Carolina were told that he'd just sing one song and would not talk about his views that gay people should be saved through reeducation camps that he runs.

When the event took place, it turned out that McClurkin was the emcee, was on stage through the entire event, and repeatedly discussed his views about how gay people can be saved through prayer, including a half-hour rant. So you see how we might be feeling a little skeptical now.

At the very least, elevating Rick Warren in this way will give him more publicity and more support from people who will send him more money to use against gay rights.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. When he opens with 'Dear God', that means he is not talking to me.

I'm not quite that full of myself.

[jobycom]

29. Hehe. Some preachers say "Dear God," but that's not who their prayer is written for.

Public prayers are like open letters. They aren't written to the person they address, but for the general public.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

10. I'm still concerned with the message it sends.

Stupid, symbolic, ritualistic gestures and actions are potent on the human psyche. Why else would they have stuck around for so long?

The GLBT community interprets this as Obama shitting on them.

Evangelicals have been interpreting this as "Warren is a heretic and traitor" or "Obama may yet see the light."

And I won't pretend to know what Obama was thinking when he made the choice (though I have a suspicion), but it warranted more thought. After all, to you Warren's talking to his imaginary friend. To thousands of others it's something more profound (and I don't mean religiously).

[Taverner]

13. Yeah I it looks like that too

For me, as a person of no faith, he's just a loser hooked on fairy tales doing his bible geek crap

But for Christians, especially GLBT Christians - I can see how they would be VERY offended by this

[Rob H.]

23. Warren's essentially a differently-marketed James Dobson

which a lot of people here don't seem to realize. He's just as anti-gay, anti-choice, and anti-science as Dobson and his cadre of wingnuts at Focus on the Family. This was an incredibly bad choice on Obama's part, imo--the last thing Warren and his crackpot ideas deserve is to be given a veneer of respectability by appearing at Obama's inauguration.

Edited for punctuation and to add that I'm a straight white male who's disappointed and disgusted that Warren will be appearing. I also have a gay cousin in CA who's been slapped in the face twice in as many months, first with the passage of Prop 8, and now this. :grr:

[jonnyblitz]

3. you should have posted this in one of the main forums where

the two Massholes, tweedledee and tweedledum, would be more apt to see it. they are the first two who came to mind after reading this. good post, btw amd MUCH appreciated. :hug:

[SarahB]

4. Yeah, well,

I post over there to no avail. 28 recs in 40 minutes last night and locked. It's easy to be sanctimonious, pompous a**holes when you have nothing asked of you either, isn't it?

Besides, I addressed one of them last night when I got a snide reply essentially saying I don't understand, "stay close to home", and to let the politically savy people people take care of things. To some choice and GLBT are "abstract concepts" to throw to the wind. To some of us, itactually means something.

edit: To censor my cursing as not to get my post deleted.

[jonnyblitz]

15. I saw that last night. he was whining about me in the other's

thread today. fucking condescending jackasses...

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

5. Hang in there.

There are some of us straight, white, middle-class males who are fighting for this.

I'd offer a hug, but I have personal-space issues. :P

[izquierdista]

6. Not too tired

To start yet another thread though.......

[SarahB]

9. And you're not too tired to respond with a closed mind. nt

[Bluebear]

11. oh shut up

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

12. It never ceases to amaze me

how quick DUers are in general to go into threads they disagree with to just shit on the OP's idea rather than be constructive. If you really have a problem with it, hide the thread and save yourself the grief.

[KitchenWitch]

19. What you said!

And save us tne grief of reading the condescending bullshit (not directed at Liberal Lurker but at the person Liberal Lurker responded to.)

[Jamastiene]

21. Good luck with that.

We are not backing down though. Get over it.

[yardwork]

30. If you don't like it, get out of our forum.

[JanMichael]

36. I like this thread. I am glad she started it.

You can take a flying leap.

[northernsoul]

8. This "straight," white guy is mad as hell!

The Warren pick is especially offensive to GLBT folks, but he is completely odious to me for a number of reasons in addition to that. This was a huge mistake by Obama, and I stand shoulder to shoulder with you in your outrage.

[YOY]

17. So is this straight white male.

Betta recognize!!!

[Phredicles]

18. Same here. The whole "marriage has been the same for 5000 years" bit

tells me he's either willfully ignorant or lying out his ass. Either way he's a fraud. Not only do those of us who voted for Obama deserve better, I think it shows a surprising lapse in self-respect on Obama's part.

[KitchenWitch]

20. That "marriage has been the same for 5000 years" is patently bullshit

the institution of marriage has changed with the times. And each culture's customs regarding marriage are different as well.

He (Pastor Warren) really ought to read some history, some sociology and some social psychology before he goes spouting off about marriage.

[roguevalley]

24. I'm sure Sarah and Leah and some of the other women of the Bible

can say a few things about 'traditional marriage'. That doesn't even address the idea that the human race, according to the testament, was jumpstarted by incest: Genesis and Adam and Eve's children. and of course, there was Lot's daughters, which still icks me out and other cases of 'exceptions to the rule' that never seem to be mentioned by the other side in these kind of arguments.

For the record, I am a believer who leans to the spiritual who spent a lot of graduate work on the history and times of the Bible lands. I am aware that some people look at the Bible as a literal and truthful testiment of God and His life among people, something it wasn't intended to be. It is a document that was put together by committee to appease the needs and wishes of a tyrant. Some people look at it as infallible and that is where most of the problems come from. Warren does that because its easier for him than to think about life, its diversity and have informed opinions. He and his ilks have made life for believers, real believers who think and understand *A LIVING HELL*. There has to be a distinction made and tolerance shared for those of us who *SUFFER* because of people like this. I'm just sayin'.

[Jack Bone]

22. Me too....Rec #5...off to the greatest we go...nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. Straight.

Strait is a narrow body of water.

[David Zephyr]

28. Yep. To the manor born.

This gay white male just may be in love with you.

Thank you for saying it.

"It's pretty damn easy to ask others to give up THEIR rights when you are the status quo in terms of power." That sums it for me.

Here's a current thread that makes your point perfectly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8001444

[yardwork]

32. I want to say that there are a lot of straight white males on the side of human rights.

I haven't seen a real pattern in the bigotry. I see it coming from all sides and all kinds of people. Yes, there are self-identified straight white men who post anti-gay bigotry. There are also straight white women who post anti-gay bigotry here. There are straight black males and females who do the same. There are straight Latino/a males and females who do the same. And so forth.

There are even some self-identified GLBTQ folks who claim not to care about GLBTQ rights, and I believe some of them. Every group has it's self-loathing token torturers.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want the many, many straight folks who strongly support gay rights to feel that we are attacking them or ungrateful for their support, which I celebrate.

Not to say that I'm not mad as hell at the level of bigotry - much of it tacitly accepted by the admins - here on DU lately.

[SarahB]

39. I know.

I'm married to a non-bigoted strait, white male who's not filled with the bullshit, macho pretense that so many of them are.

The issue is that the core of power in this country is still held by strait, white males and therefore I tend to believe they are the LAST people who should be writing suggestions on a progressive website for us all to just continually "compromise". The fact is that they are the privileged and do not have to make compromises themselves. It simply isn't fair.

[yardwork]

40. Oh yes, the condescension from privileged people is too much.

Then again, as a woman I've had to deal with arrogant male privilege all my life - and I love men, don't get me wrong, my two sons are the dearest people in my heart - but some men...

[Elderon]

34. Embarrased to be White sometimes

Please don't think all of us white straight guys are the same. We definitely are not :) Alot of us actually do have our minds open and the recievers are picking up the correct frequencies. The Bigots mingle in all creed, color & genders, but I do realize my pasty nerd-like looks make me look like a prime candidate for bigotry.

I just have that look like someone that doesn't give a shit about your problems... It's a curse I think.

But on the contrary, my heart beats and bleeds compassion for my fellow man.

I am totally against the Warren thing and i'm not quite sure what Obama was thinking, but I do know that I'll gladly stand arm & arm and hand in hand with anyone on the face of the earth, that injustice has reared its ugly head upon.

I'm with you SarahBelle!

[cynicalguy1111]

41. why would u be embarassed? race has nothign to do with it

there is good and bad in all races

[JanMichael]

35. Not this straight white male!

Screw this crap--- this issue has shoved me over the edge. I THOUGHT I was angry about Prop 8. I had no idea what anger was.

Steph and I will not be watching the inauguration for this reason. The anger is just too intense for both of us.

[closeupready]

37. they do NOT understand. And the is why I ALWAYS ask them are you or are you not gay?

They resent answering because we all know IT MATTERS.

Well, okay, there are straight white males who do get it, I'm overgeneralizing, but I do find that many of them are like that.

[jgraz]

38. The problem is not with straights, or whites, or males. The problem is with hateful, stupid bigots.

And with superstitions that teach hateful, stupid bigotry.