Mike Tyson vs Kevin McBride !

[H2O Man]

This weekend, the former heavyweight champion of the world returns to the ring, to face Irish contender Kevin McBride. While Tyson has been seen at a NBA semi-final game last week, the giant Irishman has been training under the guidance of Paschal "Packy" Collins (the brother of Steve, the only Irishman to win two world titles). McBride recently brought in Jimmy Clancy as a sparring partner, and has been using the services of hypno-therapist Patrick Brady three times a week.

I saw an recent interview of Tyson by Jim Gray, who noted that "Iron" Mike hasn't been a "great fighter in years." Tyson disagreed strongly. He views the fight as the first step back in his journey to recapture the crown.

Predictions?

[johncoby2]

1. Asleep before the fight even starts.

What a bore. The only thing that would make this interesting is to see Tyson get knocked out. Again.

[H2O Man]

2. He is still

the biggest draw in sports. America has a fascination with Tyson that clearly goes way beyond his recent ring performances. Still, his last fight, in which he was indeed knocked out, was considered the most exciting heavyweight bout of 2004.

When "Iron" Mike gets in the ring, I always have the largest crowds at my house.

[nightfox02]

3. the fascination stems from the fact that he could have been the best ever

tyson had so much talent but let the fast lane take it away...

he was hands down the most powerful uppercut in boxing EVER.

people know this and still want to believe and get excited like in the '80's...

[H2O Man]

4. Until Cus died

Mike seemed destined to be rated with the very best in heavyweight history. Experts saw him as a part of the elite group. I remember that when he was a young contender, Cus said Mike had the speed and style of Paterson, with the strength and power of Liston.

For a variety of reasons, his uppercut was one of the most awesome weapons I've ever seen.

He came apart when Cus died. Robin Givens didn't help him, and Don King hurt him.

If Mike were to be handled by people who understood boxing, and were not interested in his money-making potential, he could beat any heavyweight under 240 pounds.

[Awsi Dooger]

6. I don't buy it at all

I've seen Tyson in person a half dozen or more times and he's a shrimp. Maybe 5-7, 5-8 absolute tops. No one who has been there and seen him alongside me has disagreed. It's shocking to the point of laughable. Not even that thick. Just a little thug who intimidated people who thought they should be intimidated.

When he was in the ring with Lennox Lewis it was a farce, a good big man somewhat past his prime toying with a has-been little man. No matter if Cus had lived to be 120 and handled him every step of the way it was inevitable Tyson's physical stature would provide roadblocks he couldn't overcome. He was extremely fortunate to come along in an era with no great big heavyweights in their prime.

[H2O Man]

8. Lennox Lewis

was a good fighter. He got knocked flat twice in his prime by fighters that can not ne mentioned in a serious discussion of great heavyweights. Mike is short, and - like Frazier - was able to frequently use it to his advantage.

At his age, it is not realistic to think he will compete with fighters over 240 pounds. But that is a rule of thumb with old fighters .... including the greatest fighters from the lower weights: old guys should rarely, if ever "move up" and fight larger, younger guys.

Before Lewis, the only large champions were Jess Willard, Primo Carnera, and the second coming of George Foreman. Up until then, Mike wasn't as tall, but was as large as most, and significantly larger than most heavyweight champions.

[Awsi Dooger]

21. Evander Holyfield shoved Tyson backwards with ease

Whenever they were in close quarters in the first fight, he separated easily simply by pushing a little man like Mike Tyson straight back. Holyfield was a pumped up lightheavy with a narrow frame and he physically was too much for tiny Tyson.

Maybe I wouldn't feel as strongly if I hadn't seen Tyson in person so often. He looks like someone you could flick away without a concern. I am not exaggerating when I report Tyson is 5-8. Jeremy Schaap said on ESPN the other day that Tyson's 5-11 listing is a farce, that he is really 5-9. Schaap is more honest than most reporters, but he simply didn't go down far enough. I have shaken hands with Ali, Foreman and Holmes among others at big fight nights in Las Vegas the past decade or so. They are huge in stature. Tyson's listed weight may pretend he was a large heavyweight but he was anything but that.

I don't want to overreact to performances past a fighter's prime. But tonight was another example of Tyson displayng no heart. Name one fight with significant adversity that Tyson won. He always found a convenient excuse to scramble for his mouthpiece, take off an ear or plop on the stool.

[enigami]

7. Everybody want's to see Mike get the shit beat out of him

go figure, Now, If we could just get Barry Bonds to take up boxing.

[H2O Man]

9. Naw.

"Everyone" doesn't want to see Mike get beat up. Without being rude, most people who want to see him beat up are white. But most people aren't white.

[enigami]

10. Thats Rude

dosn't have anything to do with race. I'd like to see John Rocker get beat up also.

[H2O Man]

11. Sometimes the truth

is blunt, and appears rude. The national perspective on Mike Tyson has everything to do with race. Hence, when you say that everyone wants to see him beat up, the "everyone" you speak of is a specific group.

I would prefer to simply not see John Rocker. But I suppose if he were to fight Mike Tyson, in a ring or on a baseball field, I'd bet on Tyson.

[dr.zoidberg]

26. No, not at all.

Every single action that Tyson has done since he lost to Buster Douglas in 1990 has been one fuck up after another. I'm glad he's out of boxing. I personally thought that he wouldn't lose but I am glad he lost. I don't feel sorry for him. Not one bit. The thing is, he may have some mental instability, but he is a heart a con man. That interview he had on 20/20 with Robin Givens at his side proved it. I mean, during the interview Tyson came off as basically a kid and he threw Givens under the bus. She looked so bad in the interview that her credibility took a severe hit. He's no fool. He once said that he could sell out Madison Square Garden masturbating. He probably could too. The fans did not want to see Tyson get beat up, they want him to KTFO his opponent like he did in the '80s.

[H2O Man]

27. "he threw Givens under the bus."

Odd statement.

Mike clearly gets a wide range of responses from boxing fans, and from the general public.

[dr.zoidberg]

28. Well, not literally :)

That statement was more along the lines of Tyson ruining her credibility on national television so easily. Tyson truly does get a wide range of reactions. There are people who want to see the Tyson that destroyed Frank Bruno, not the Tyson that bit off Evander Holyfield's ear. I am a boxing fan. I've followed the sport for 12 of the 22 year that I have lived. The film of the old Tyson I saw made it look like he could beat anybody. To see him self-destruct was a painful thing to see.

BTW, The term "Throwing someone under the bus" is basically saying that a person burying some one they don't like. For example: During the Pistons/Heat series, Rasheed Wallace threw the refs under the bus for perceived bias.

[H2O Man]

29. Well, a couple refs

were throwing the Pistons under a caravan of buses in the first two games. (grin) I have mixed feelings on Robin Givens. I think she damaged herself in the infamous interview. However, she may have really believed Mike was bipolar -- although there are numerous things that may mimic a bipolar disorder, including some white powders that have been popular with the rich & famous.

I'd like to see Mike pull it together, and do some good works. Most importantly, I'd like for him to be a good parent. that's far more important than anything any athlete does in their professional life.

[H2O Man]

5. Graduation party .....

my younger son is inviting his friends from high school over for the fight. It's funny to think that when these guys were little, Iron Mike was the "baddest dude on the planet." I had offered to but the bunch of them tickets to the "Cinderella Man" movie -- which I thought was great -- but they all prefer to watch Tyson.

[bamacrat]

12. I hope Iron Mike makes his comeback, and regains the title.

[H2O Man]

13. "I'll gut him like a fish..."

The news media is playing up the Tyson fight. It's gotten a hell of a lot more attention than the Downing Street Memo. It's fascinating to watch the coverage. There is the "Mike and Mike" show on ESPN. The smaller guy was very accurate in his analysis of Mike, whereas the heavy-set fellow is invested in National Inquirer-style analysis.

I think that part of Mike's frustration is that he is treated like an idiot by people who are not half as smart as he is. Of course, this is almost entirely due to his uncivilized behavior. But he is actually very smart.

I bought a magazine called "StopSmiling" last night. It was their "boxing issue," with a series of extremely insightful articles, including an interview with Ken Burns on Jack Johnson; an article by Norman Mailer; coverage of Miles Davis' affair with boxing; an interview with Max Kellerman; and others. It is good to see boxing being examined seriously. I also got the most recent Boxing Digest, which had a great interview with Shelly Finkel. He notes that Tyson "is, in many ways, an intellectual. And people don't realize that. ..." Good to see boxing being discussed seriously.

[joeBlowSchmoe]

14. I know McBride, nice guy.

Largest man, I know, strong as a bull. See him in Dorchester, MA a lot at the Eire pub. He is a nice guy.

People are comparing him to McNeely, and let me tell you, this guy would but McNeely in the hospital having him eat through a straw for a month.

The thing is, he never took the sport as seriously as he should have until now.

He was quite the drinker but has been off the sauce for a while. People don't know this, but he was a real contender for a while.

Not saying he will beat Tyson, but he has tyson in age and size.

I like Tyson too. Always have, I don't think that it is because of his color that people want him beat. Trust me, most of the Irish guys I know wanted him to beat the bag out of that idiot McNeely.

I think the joy a lot of people got out Tyson falling is the same joy they got when they saw the Yanks get beat.

To say it is about color is over simplyifying a complex phenomenon in this country. People in this country love to see the mighty and arrogant fall.

However, the tables have turned so much for Iron, that now we want to see a Braddock like comeback out of him.

A lot of my friends are boxers they see Tyson as a riddle, how could someone so good get beat, was there a drought of talent in the late 80's? Maybe, when you see him against the top guys now you wonder how he was ever champ.

That being said, iron Mike Rocks. I am excited for this fight. I hope it goes the distance.

I'll be happy for McBride if he wins, but I will feel a twinge of sadness if Tyson goes down.

What pisses me off is that peopel talk down McBride so much that if he does knock out Tyson it will be the end of him. McBride is no Klitchko, He is no Toney, but he is legit.

[H2O Man]

15. I like them both.

It's too bad that one of them has to lose. But it's a job, and they are both doing it in large part for money.

McBride is very big, and if he is able to move Tyson backwards, he may very well win. Mike had trouble with tall fighters, even in his prime. Men like Bonecrusher Smith and Mitch "Blood" Green were able to go the distance with him. Holyfield recognized that Mike couldn't fight backing up. Of course, in order to back him up, an opponent has to expose themselves.

Two other points: the fact that many white people cheer for Mike, and want him to win fights, and really like him, has nothing to do with the fact that the vast majority of the anti-Tyson crowd are white. That's not a difficult concept to follow.

The second thing is that McBride has never been a serious contender. This is an opportunity for him to become one. At his very best, he has never been higher than the lowest ranks of the third tier of heavyweight contenders. This is why guys like Teddy Atlas are suggesting that Mike should ride a unicycle or participate in a hotdog eating contest during the fight. While I think McBride has a real chance to win, I will say that there is no evidence he has ever been a contender. He's never been ranked by any governing body as a serious contender; no boxing magazine has ever noted him as being a contender; and none of the "experts" has ever considered him as worthy of consideration as a contender. In his one opportunity on tv, he appeared to be a club fighter at very best.

But Saturday, he gets his chance. Good luck to him.

[dr.zoidberg]

16. re; Tyson/McBride

Tyson weighed in at 233. McBride came in at 271. I saw it on ESPN.
At McBride's weight, he'll be lucky if he can make the entire fight without gassing. I think Tyson is going to win this one.

[H2O Man]

17. Tyson at 233 lbs

Interesting. I've seen film of him training, and he looked fit.

[H2O Man]

18. I just got back

from the Boxing Hall of Fame's Induction Weekend fightcard in Verona, at the Turning Stone Casino. Heck of a show. It was 50 years ago tonight that the great Carmen Basilio won his first world title. I had him autograph a limited edition poster/print of the fight. There were about 30 champions and ex-champions there.

[crimson333]

19. Tyson is done

of course I am not as psychic, since I just found out he quit.

I thought he was Done in the 1st Holyfield fight.

[H2O Man]

20. Yep.

It's sad that he's had to keep fighting. If the legal system had allowed him to recover the money Don King has stolen from him, and which King just stretches out in court, he wouldn't have needed to do this. He knows boxing history, and must know that this is the path that Joe Louis walked.

[DanCa]

22. Mike Tyson who

The guy was just a protected bully and thug. I never understood what the public saw in the loon. Give me louis, ali, norton, foreman or even tex cobb Holyfield and Joe Hipp - a little sarcasam there- any day of the week than this clown. I am glad tyson is done.

[H2O Man]

23. He's just done in the ring.

When one door closes, another one opens. Mike Tyson is still less than a day away from being the most interesting athlete on the planet. He is one of the most insightful boxing historians alive, and may be used as a commentator.

Like many famous folks, Mike serves as a projection of the worst fantasies of a certain segment. They apply the demons within them to Mike. But that says far more about them than about Mike.

[DanCa]

24. Well from a pure sweet science perspective

Would you agree with me about his lack luster style and caliber of opponents? I mean if people want to watch pure bruisers I could see them watching Riddick Bowe Foreman or Norton in thier Prime. I just never understood the Tyson mystique. To me he was nothing more than a bully and you know what happens once you punch a bully in the nose. I will say this though I wonder if Tyson's career wouldnt have been better if he had stayed far away from Don King.

[H2O Man]

25. Honestly, I think Tyson's career ended

with the first bite of Evander's ear. I like Mike, although I recognize he has earned a good deal of the disgust that people feel for him. But I know a little more from his past. He was a short little boy with a lisp and a high-pitched voice, put in with other kids in the NYS DFY. When he was talking after the McBride fight about having had part of his emotional being removed, he was talking about being gang raped in these youth facilities. He went in problemed, and he came out very disturbed.

I had a couple friends who worked with him. One, Rose W., signed him over to Cus D'Amato. (I had boxed for years, and knew of Cus, and had actually encountered him when there were Golden Gloves in Troy NY in the early 1970s.) Cus really cared about Mike, and he tried to help him with his problems. But if you go back to books like Cosell, or articles on young Buster Mathis, the authors provide descriptions of the old man's odd side. So he helped him, but mainly kept him as isolated as possible ... just as Cus loved isolation. (At fight cards, he told me he never needed to watch fights; he could see everything he needed by watching boxers in the locker rooms.)

Then you have Cus die. Mike becomes the youngest heavyweight champion, and a multi-millionaire to boot. The controls are gone. Jimmy Jacobs was a good man, but couldn't compete with Don King. Kevin Rooney is okay, but he has his demons. Teddy Atlas is the smartest of them, but he despises Mike for a personal reason -- and he'll never forgive Mike. So the guy is going adrift with no one to confront his crap. It was an ugly stage. Many poor kids who find fame and fortune act out; Mike was extreme. He is lucky a good man (like Teddy) didn't splatter his brains with a gun.

But now, in the past few years, he is trying to make his peace. He is in debt, in part from being a fool, and in part because Don stole his money. He is finding King's attorneys can postpone justice indefinitely. He has had to box for that reason. Believe me when I tell you he knows boxing very well. He knew he stood no chance against Lewis. He was only there for money. He hasn't wanted to box in years.

When I look at Mike, I see a complex man. I can see the bad, but I also see the good. And I am aware that he was a helpless kid, stuck like a not altogether unattractive insect in a spider web in a dark, empty house (to paraphrase a description of another inmate I read years ago), and the terrible things that happened to him as a kid came to the surface as a young adult. He is a tragic figure.

[dr.zoidberg]

30. re: Tyson's career ended

I personally believe that Tyson's career ended when he lost to Buster Douglas. Everything after that was descent straight down hill.

[dr.zoidberg]

31. re:Tyson who?

I don't think he was protected. Beating Witherspoon, Spinks, Holmes, "Bonecrusher" Smith(best ring name ever IMHO)shows that Tyson was not a protected fighter. The key with Tyson was 1) You have to box him, 2) You cannot fight Tyson scared(Of course you can't fight anybody scared). Those were the keys. "Bonecrusher" Smith was a tough fighter. He was nuked by Tyson. He beat Spinks was an all-time great lightheavyweight . He beat Holmes, who was the man at heavyweight in the post-Ali era. He beat both Spinks in 1 round. He beat Holmes in 4. Both wins by KO. Both of those men are HOF'ers. All of the top heavyweights of Tyson's time fell to him. I'll just let you know right now, I'm no Mike Tyson fan. His self-destructive acts have made him look really bad. However, I will not let anyone say that he was a protected fighter.

[H2O Man]

32. I saw Bonecrusher last week.

Smith and Mitch "Blood" Green were both able to go the distance with Tyson by holding; they both were tall, and kept upright against the ropes to avoid his uppercut, while keeping their arms near his shoulders, to keep him from going to the head with a left hook or right cross.

Douglas was the first guy who ever pushed Mike backwards. Evander pushed him backwards from round one on.

After the Douglas fight, he had the potential to come back. (He fought Ruddick, a tough man in my book.) And he showed some class after both the Douglas and first Holyfield defeats. The second one was bad, very bad. The acting out was very bad. Now even Evander was DQed as an amateur for biting, but to bite the ear off was bad. Then to do the freak show.