What is the best proof that there is a God?

[JetboyOne]

Is the bible proof?
The fact that there is life on Earth?
Miracles that have been performed?
If miracles, what miracle comes closest to proving God's existence?

[HereSince1628]

1. When God speaks to you. Always has been always will be the best

proof.

Terribly difficult to duplicate or share, however.

[thefool_wa]

8. Amen

[trotsky]

17. Unfortunately that "proof"

is indistinguishable from hallucinations or electrochemical stimulation.

[kwassa]

18. Indistinguishable by whom?

[trotsky]

21. Anyone.

Even the person "experiencing" it.

[HereSince1628]

20. True, but then it is also irrefutable, being confounded by choices

doesn't mean there is no "correct" choice. The selection of which is resolved by faith. Seems that when a person is considering the domain of spirituality it might not be surprising to find faith is granted more power than rationality.

BTW, I never heard the voice. The closest I come is having the rocks, plants and animals tell me their stories.

[thefool_wa]

45. I can tell the difference.

God speaks to me all the time. He/She/It has no voice and does not communicate in a way that can be described, it just happens.

If you think there is no difference then it must not be something you have experienced. But to those of us who have, it is all the proof we need.

[trotsky]

46. That's great, but...

what happens when God tells two of you different things?

George Bush claims that God told him to invade Iraq. How does a third party determine if it's you, Bush, or God that's lying?

[thefool_wa]

48. its not about what god tells you to do...

Its not a voice that tells you to do things. God has never directly told me to do anything, and I don't believe that God told GW to do anything either. God lays the paths before us then lets us chose the route and just because a path exists does not imply that it is the path God wants us to walk.

Hearing god isn't about proving God's existence to anyone but the listener because ANYONE can lie and say God told them ANYTHING. My "hearing" god isn't about me proving the existence of God to you (for example), its about my feeling that that which I observe in the world around me speaks of God's existence.

If it makes you feel better, I don't think that this is the answer to the question posed by the original poster as, like I said, hearing God is only proof to the listener.

[trotsky]

49. Well, plenty of people DO say that God tells them to do things.

Sometimes those things are good, sometimes they're bad. My point is, we have absolutely no way of knowing if the person is even being honest, let alone what God supposedly told them.

And you're right, it's not an answer to the OP's question, but as you can see it opens up its own rather large can of worms.

[thefool_wa]

53. Can open, worms everywhere

I think that is why we both contend that this is no answer and goes more towards the perceptions of Faith than proof of Gods existence.

[Orrex]

33. Not proof at all

At least, not to one who thinks critically about these things.

Since your mind is finite and, when it comes to self-analysis, of only questionable reliability, even your 100% "certain" perception that the infinite God has spoken to you is insufficient to judge his existence, absent other evidence.

The most you can say is "Based on an inadequate number of samples, I have perceived that God has spoken to me."

[salinen]

2. Miracles

a human weakness to prove to the self that the self has importance.

[sui generis]

3. those are all circular

The best proof would be an appearance on television AND in your living room simulataneously.

Everything else is still just second hand info.

We need him to check in and say, hey dude, this is god speaking. Three, two, one, is this thing on? Testing testing . . .

Okay, yo people, sorry I've been gone for about 2000 years while ya'll burned each other alive, raped and pillaged and did all kinds of shit in my name. I was having mid-eon crisis and had to take a break, you know, go find myself, have a few mai tais, etc., but now I'm back and ready to part seas and set bushes on fire and all that groovy pyrotechnic stuff I promised.

Sorry about the jews and the gays and the gypsies. If I'd known I'm sure I would have done something.

:sarcasm:

[hatrack]

4. The music of Johann Sebastian Bach

The music of Beethoven, Debussy, Mahler, John Coltrane, Jimi Hendrix and Nusrat Fatah Ali Khan are also fairly convincing pieces of evidence.

:hi:

[nemo137]

16. Heh. Nice.

As a pretty-much lifelong choirboy, I'd have to agree.

[immoderate]

37. Evidence of genius I'd say.

Can't argue with your taste though. I'm sure you'd also include Ellington and Monk if you lengthened the list.

Do you think it denigrates those artists though to credit their accomplishments to some super being? And is my lack of ability to emulate them due to rejection by god or just plain lack of talent?

--IMM

[heidler1]

58. Does this God use genetics to indirectly create this talent or is there

no traceable connection to this talent? If it is traceable by genetics is talent predetermined? If Calvin was right and our chosen way of being is predestined when conceived or at birth then this would be pretty consistent with biology and genetics. However, that would throw a clinker in the promise by God that if you properly worship and believe that you will not perish, but you will earn everlasting life, because of it being predetermined who does it.

[drb]

5. This is not now and never will be any proof...

...of God's existance, save one: The person of Jesus Christ.

Don't trust what I say or what anyone else says. Do your own research on whether or not he actually lived, what he said and what he did. Make up your own mind.

[Nitrogenica]

6. If a tornado appeared out of nowhere and

mowed down Bush's ranch, I would suspect their might be a God.

Perhaps though the best proof of the existence of God occurs when people reach out to those less privileged than themselves and give from their hearts. I think of that as a commonality that happens in every society worldwide. There are always good people in our midst.

It is a universal truth, goodness and purity of heart does exist.
Is this proof that there is a god?

[flamin lib]

7. The only thing I know

is that I can't possibly know . . .

[Bob3]

9. well it depends on what you mean by god and what you mean by proof

Not to get to Socratic on you but if we're not sure what we mean by god we can't be sure what is meant by proof. Fred Hoyle the astronomer thought the universe was a put up job because of the odd way carbon is formed in the heart of stars. Gimmicking fundamental physical laws and relationships could be considered an act of god but that god is a very different god from the biblical god.

It's a wilderness that leads to headaches.

[trotsky]

32. I had never heard that about Hoyle.

Do you know what exactly it was about carbon formation that didn't sit well with him? I mean, from what I understand, it's along the standard fusion chain - once the hydrogen is "burned up," the star compresses and the helium starts to fuse, and so on, leading to carbon and heavier elements.

[Bob3]

34. There's a part where in order to get carbon

which is a fusion of Helium and beryllium in carbon where things get a little strange. Beryllium is unstable and likely to split into two heliums rather than join with a helium atom and become carbon. However there is - I don't know the math or the physics as well as I should - at a specific energy what is called a resonance where 3 helium atoms will hang together longer than normal, long enough to form carbon. Without this resonance there would little if any carbon in the universe and without carbon no life as we know. Nothing like this happens elsewhere during the fusion cycle - which ends with iron I think. From what i've read this offended Hoyle on some level. Why I don't know.
You could check the web and get a much better answer than this but that's the reader's digest version.

[Bill McBlueState]

61. I heard this in my grad stellar structure class

The professor, who likes to insert his religious views into things, was using this reaction as proof of intelligent design.

[Lexingtonian]

10. The fact

that you can imagine one.

Don't blame me. The various Arguments From Design essentially merge into Anselm's Ontological argument/'proof'. And that ends up at that place.

Your question is a little problematic. It makes all the difference whether you're talking about the theists' God (which the 'proofs' and 'faith' are about) or a different kind.

[greyl]

27. The best answer to that is:

It is ridiculous to assert that something that can be imagined exists because it can be imagined. We all understand what Superman means, but he does not exist apart from fiction.

[BobRossi]

11. My children. nt

[thefool_wa]

13. again, Amen.

[thefool_wa]

12. Scientific Proof

If you put aside the theological side of God, in my eyes, Science has actually already proved the existence of God.

First we need to address a point made by Bob3 - we should define God. Again, absent of theological ideas God can be defined (at least for these purposes) as pure creative energy that can bring something from nothing. This idea has been proved possible in both the theoretical AND empirical domains. Energy has been combined to form matter and anti-matter, thus proving the existence of pure energy which can be used to bring something from nothing.

The theological ramifications of this are our own to determine, but when you match this empirical evidence with something as simple as the creation of life in the womb of a mother, I think that there can be no argument that there is a God. But, of course, there always will be.

Just my opinion.

[Bob3]

22. Thinking about "creating something from nothing"

One thing about that is that as per Quantum Theory something comes from nothing in a vacuum all the time - "virtual particles" come into existence and then blank out again in the wink of an eye. Does that mean the vacuum is god? Or that god is the void? That links to some forms of eastern thought but again that strays far from the man with the white beard bringing adam to life image that the word 'god' brings to most western minds.

I personally feel that there is a god, I have not a jot of proof of that however. Just a sense. As for god's nature if god cares for the actions of folks on a small planet - I can't say. I have only the feeling that god does. But that's not a proof. Indeed the 20th and 21st centurys offer more proof we are on our own. But faith is what faith is

One thing that gives me a sense of the mystery that I feel lurks at the heart of the universe is music. Music is formed by energy, the vibration of air molecules - physics really - the laws of motion and transfer of energy. Music comes from the very warp and woof of the physical universe. Again this is not proof just a reason.

And I could be wrong

[thefool_wa]

44. As could we all

From my own point of view I agree, the true nature of God is that which we feel and believe, not something tangible or quantifiable, but something personal and born of faith.

I would not say that "virtual particles" necessarily show the void as God, but more show the void as the canvas on which God creates the particles. I honestly believe that Quantum and Nuclear Theory/Science give us the closest tangible proof of God we are ever going to get. Even then (to interject my own personal theological beliefs) it only comes close to explaining one aspect of a God that is incomprehensible by any of us prior to our deaths.

Music? I would say that music is probably closer to proof that we have a soul more than proof there is a God. Again from my own theological/religious point of view, that proves the existence of the second aspect of God, but in a more abstract sort of way. Do you know anyone who does not listen to music? Or that is not moved in some big way by a piece of composition be it Bach, Elvis or System of a Down?

[Bob3]

50. it's not our emotional reaction to music - its that it exists in the

first place that i find so mysterious. Again music springs from physics and a mathematical base - energy causes air molecules to vibrate as waves pass through, the waves interact and following the laws of wave mechanics create peaks and troughs - they enter our ears we hear harmonies, melodies what have you - why is that? It's quite beyond my ken to understand or alas write out in a coherent manner.

[thefool_wa]

52. But..

Music does not really exist WITHOUT the emotional reaction to it. I contend that it is the existence of a living spirit (or soul or what have you) that both produces the melodies, harmonies, rhythm, etc. AND permits their perception as music.

It's existence is defined by the physical and the mathematical, but without the living spirit (in all things, plants and animals respond to music as well) then it is no more mystical than the vibrations generated by a jack hammer.

This is getting way too close to the "tree falling in the woods" or "chicken and egg" discussion. Music does not exist without the spirit, nor can it be perceived without one. I know it is somewhat against the dogmas of my religion to believe that all things have a living spirit, but ah well. All that Groks is God :)

[Big Kahuna]

14. Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

-- Benjamin Franklin

[Bob3]

51. Beer does more than Milton Can

to justify God's ways to Man.

don't know who wrote it but it's a good quote.

[greiner3]

15. For me;

It would be emptying my bladder right now without me having to get out of my chair. Hell, I'm easy!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. Your soul

[ihaveaquestion]

23. Sorry, there is no proof that souls exists either.

Trust me - this is a useless exercise for both believers and non-believers. Believers believe and that's enough for them - end of discussion. Non-believers don't, but sometimes they bring up questions and try to discuss these things. Most believers can't or won't discuss any of these things logically - mostly because it's not a matter of logic for them. Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with that. Believe what you want and be happy. But this is a dead topic.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

24. Read this link and you will believe!

http://www.ghostweb.com/soul.html


heheheheh

[ihaveaquestion]

26. The International Ghost Hunters Society?

Now I know you're yankin my chain!

Thanks for the laugh!

:pals:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

35. LOL

[jonnyblitz]

25. WOW! now I believe there is a god!! Look at all this irrefutable

proof!!! :rofl: :rofl:

[greyl]

28. Was this same brand of logic used when believing in WMDs? nt

[Zhade]

29. In order...

1) No.

2) Not necessarily.

3) What miracles? There's no evidence whatsoever that the purported miracles in the bible happened.

[JetboyOne]

31. 3) What miracles?

All the saints have performed miracles, I believe a miracle is necessary to get into the club. I'm just wondering if any of the miracles have actually been miraculous. Are any of the stories like the little girl at Lourdes have anything verifiable. Certainly if Jesus died and then rose from the dead that would be a miracle , but it is a story that is unprovable at this time.

[htuttle]

36. To the best of my knowledge, there is no proof of any miracles whatsoever

I cannot think of a single instance of 'supernatural', much less 'miraculous' activity that has passed any test of verification. Not one. And I have looked, for a long, long time.

If you believe in miracles, you believe on faith alone.

[JetboyOne]

38. I heard things like

tumors disappearig and stuff like that.

[htuttle]

39. The Church accepts anecdotal evidence of miracles...

...in regards to canonization of Saints. Anecdotal or heresay evidence can't even really prove that a tumor ever existed, much less prove a causal connection between a tumor disappearing and the act of praying to a potential saint.

But religion is religion and science is science. All there is to 'prove' any religion are anecdotal accounts and one's personal experience.

[trotsky]

40. Yes, the most important thing to note is that...

the same organization that determines whether a miracle has occurred also benefits financially from the declaration of said miracle. Red flags ahoy!

[Goblinmonger]

41. And that same organization

has condoned the rape of young children, so take whatever they say with that in mind. That's pretty much a deal breaker in my book.

[trotsky]

42. Kinda undermines their moral authority...

on just about everything, doesn't it?

[Goblinmonger]

30. Oh, boy

I won't go where many of you think I am going. I agree with the person above that this is really a pointless activity. I think there is no proof yet given. You think that something is proof. I just don't like the usage of the term proof. I have no problem that you believe any of the things listed above are proof of God. You all seem like good people.

One thing bothers me, though. When we say that good works, good music, etc are proof of god, doesn't that diminish our role in things? If I don't do good things/works, maybe god just isn't choosing to use me for those works; he is using others. I think T.S. Eliot and James Joyce are near perfect writers. They are so because they are geniuses. If I subscribe to the notion that their good writing is proof of god, then they are no different than me, they just had the hand of god helping them.

Again, I have no problems with your beliefs; they just don't make sense to me. Which I also hope you have no problem with.

[Bloodblister Bob]

43. There aint none.

[Strong Atheist]

47. When god(s) come to me

personally, introduce him/her/itself, maybe show a few miracles, then I will admit to being wrong, and not a second sooner...

[Goblinmonger]

55. I would add to that

Somebody else needs to be with me to witness it as well because I might just be in an "altered" state, crazy, dreaming, etc.

[Strong Atheist]

56. I trust myself, but ok. nt.

[barb162]

54. the existence of the universe...what started it, the big bang

[CarbonDate]

57. If a god wanted to....

...it could probably broadcast a message in the sky, setting the clouds in a pattern that say, "Here I am" or, "Surrender Dorothy". It could talk to us directly, rather than in the "voices in our head" way that so many Christians and schizophrenics experience. That it hasn't calls into question whether it even cares whether we believe in it. Assuming it exists.

[manic expression]

59. Anything

or everything.

[struggle4progress]

60. How could an issue like this possibly be subject to "proof" or "disproof"?

[MellowOne]

62. You can't prove or disprove He exists

He simply asks us to trust his word that He does exist. The Bible says our faith saves us. It's impossible to please Him without faith. Faith in Christ, faith that He is our savior, faith that He leads and guides us in our life. IF we could prove He exists, we wouldn't need faith.