Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Myth: There is No War Between Science and Christianity

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:26 PM
Original message
Myth: There is No War Between Science and Christianity
Fact: The Church has persecuted or opposed almost every great scientist of the last 500 years.

Primary Source:

A History of the Warfare of Science With Theology in Christendom (2 Volumes, 1898) by Andrew D. White.

Summary

The Church has never been on the cutting edge of science -- on the contrary, it has been the one persecuting scientists. The list of those who earned the wrath of the Church reads like a Who's Who of Science: Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, even Bertrand Russell. The Church has also been on the wrong side of the social sciences for over 1,500 years, actively promoting slavery, anti-Semitism, the torture and murder of women as witches, sexual repression, censorship and the Inquisition, Crusades and other aggressive wars, and capital punishment for misdemeanors. This has given rise to a Christian field called apologetics, which attempts to defend the Church's errors, even claiming that science and Christianity are compatible friends, not enemies. But the atrocities and scientific errors were too profound, and stretched on for too many millennia, to be defended in any reasonable manner.

Argument

Most Christians will deny it, but there is a long tradition of warfare between science and Christianity. The source of this conflict stems from the fact that both attempt to do the same thing: to explain the world around us, and offer solutions to our problems. The difference between these two attempts is basically one of age. Religion comprises very old explanations and solutions; science, newer ones. And because they differ, they enter into conflict.

For example, all human societies have attempted to answer the question: "Where do we come from?" In ancient Israel, the answer was God and Creation, as described in the book of Genesis. But as human knowledge has advanced and grown, different explanations have arisen: namely, the Big Bang and evolution. Because people loathe being proven wrong, the appearance of new explanations has been threatening, and they react with hostility to these rival accounts.

The threat was all the greater for the Christian Church, because it prided itself on being the source of All Truth, guided by an omniscient God. (The term "Christian Church" in this essay refers to its spiritual leaders, leading theologians, writers of sacred canon, and any members defending the orthodox or fundamentalist viewpoint.) Being proven wrong on any count therefore had disastrous implications for the Church, not only because it undermined its authority, but its political and economic power as well. Not surprisingly, the Church moved energetically against scholars attempting to make scientific progress, branding their work as "heresy" and persecuting them to the fullest extent that they could. The full range of the Church's actions included harassment, discrimination, censorship, slander, scorn, abuse, threats, persecution, forced recantations, torture and burning at the stake. The list of great scientists opposed by the Church reads like a Who's Who of Science: Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, even Bertrand Russell. At no time has the Church been on the cutting edge of science -- it has opposed virtually all scientific progress for nearly 2,000 years. And Protestants would prove to be just as hostile to science as Catholics.

The war between Christianity and science has raged so long and bitterly that even 100 years ago, Andrew White, a former president of Cornell University, was able to write a huge two-volume history of the conflict entitled The Warfare Of Science With Theology. (1) Exhaustively covering hundreds of historical cases, he was able to demonstrate that the Church generally repeats the same three-step process whenever confronted by a threatening scientific discovery:

First, the Church tries to crush the "heretical" view, often through censorship and persecution of the scientist.

But as the evidence supporting the scientific viewpoint inevitably grows, the Church struggles to find a compromise position that incorporates both viewpoints.

Eventually, the scientific victory is complete, and the Church is left to indulge in apologetics, a field of study that explains away and defends the Church's actions. In this stage, it is common for apologists to claim that there is not, and never was, any conflict between the Church and science.

This process has occurred like clockwork down through history, resulting in a Christian Church today that is completely unrecognizable from the Early Christian Church -- indeed, if the two could ever meet, they would denounce each other as heretics. No Christian today could even begin to defend the Absolute Truth that the Church proclaimed a mere 500 years ago. This included the following beliefs:
The earth was flat, in accordance with its many descriptions in the Bible. Catholic bishops warned Columbus that he would fall off the edge of the earth for his lack of faith.

The earth was also the center of the universe, and the sun and planets rotated around it, fixed in crystal spheres.

Comets were not celestial bodies obeying the laws of physics; they were fireballs thrown in anger from the right hand of God, and they were messengers of doom and despair.

The ordinary events of nature were not caused by routine laws of nature, like physics or chemistry. Instead, they were the result of magic, miracles, and angels or demons who actively caused and intervened in ordinary events.

Living in abject filth, debasing the body, and refusing any sanitation or hygiene was viewed as a glory to God, and a means to salvation. Many saints were praised for refusing to wash for most of their lives! (It showed that they were not "vain" or "proud.") John Wesley's famous remark that "Cleanliness is next to godliness" was a decidely modern viewpoint, one that greatly reduced the plagues and diseases that ravaged Europe.

Both disease and insanity were either a punishment of God or a possession by devils, and using modern medicine to thwart the will of God was a sin. When Dr. Zabdiel Boylston first inoculated his own son against smallpox in 1721, the Church immediately attacked him; they claimed that injecting someone with a weakened strain of smallpox was "poisoning," and that it was blasphemy "to infect a family in the morning with smallpox and to pray to God in the evening against the disease."

Lightning was also considered a punishment of sinners by God; when Benjamin Franklin invented the lightning rod, Christians everywhere bitterly assailed him for robbing God of his judgment.

Bad weather and ferocious storms that ruined crops and killed people were supposed to be the result of Satan's demons stirring trouble. These demons were supposed to be frightened off by the ringing of loud bells; that is why churches traditionally have bells in their steeples.

The European forests were supposed to be filled with witches, gremlins, fairies, leprechauns, dwarfs, ogres, incubi, succubi, and spirits of the dead. They were thought to range from friendly and mischievous to violent and dangerous, and they were blamed or credited for much unexplained phenomena. The Church, from the Pope on down, blessed various holy relics and prayers that could be used to ward off these creatures.

One of the most bitterly fought "truths" was the supposed evil of usury, which is nothing more than the loaning of money for interest. For 1,700 years the Church saved its greatest condemnations for money-lenders. Dante reserved his most tortuous sections of hell for them. Today, of course, we consider modern banking practices to be a great benefit to society, one of the reasons why modern economies function so well. But it was not always so.

more, full discussion here:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-sciencechristianity.htm





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
The Whiskey Priest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another great book on the subject
The Republican War on Science----Chris Mooney

This book puts forward the hypothesis that there have been a marriage between the christian right and the corporate interest. It is a compelling argument and very interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm so glad we've overcome all that
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Yeah *sigh*
-------------------------------------------
Coming Soon!
The Liberal Christian Network!
http://liberalchristians.hostdiva.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scubadude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. I find that the Catholic Church is perhaps the most in tune with science..
Text from Catholic.com

The Catholic Position

What is the Catholic position concerning belief or unbelief in evolution? The question may never be finally settled, but there are definite parameters to what is acceptable Catholic belief.

Concerning cosmological evolution, the Church has infallibly defined that the universe was specially created out of nothing. Vatican I solemnly defined that everyone must "confess the world and all things which are contained in it, both spiritual and material, as regards their whole substance, have been produced by God from nothing" (Canons on God the Creator of All Things, canon 5).

The Church does not have an official position on whether the stars, nebulae, and planets we see today were created at that time or whether they developed over time (for example, in the aftermath of the Big Bang that modern cosmologists discuss). However, the Church would maintain that, if the stars and planets did develop over time, this still ultimately must be attributed to God and his plan, for Scripture records: "By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all their host by the breath of his mouth" (Ps. 33:6).

Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.

Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter— the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.

While the Church permits belief in either special creation or developmental creation on certain questions, it in no circumstances permits belief in atheistic evolution.

Much more enlightened christian thought (link to source of above text): http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

Scuba
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Funny thing?
The Muslims have more or less a religious directive to study and go into the sciences (except biology and relatedly evolution). In another generation there may be more Muslims in teaching posts than any other group.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Religion and science however share a believe in absolute truths
While relativism and anything goes is prevalent in society, science and many religions believe there is such things as absolutes, true and non true beliefs and statements. If all truth is relative there is no longer any room for scientific truths.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Um
Science isn't into "absolute truths" so much as science is focused on reality. Facts are not relative.

But Science is all about constantly reexamining its findings and striving to get closer to the truth, while knowing we'll never get there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Myth: Educated people in the Middle Ages thought the earth was flat
Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 08:11 PM by muriel_volestrangler
Fact: The last serious argument put forward for a flat earth was in 547.

Flat Earth

However, there is some persistence of flat earth thinking during the pre-medieval times and beyond. Examples include: Lucretius (99-55 BCE); the Bible; Lactantius (245-325 CE); St. Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386 CE); St. John Chrysostom (344-408 CE); Severian, Bishop of Gabala (408 CE); Orosius (385-420 CE); Diodorus of Tarsus (394 CE); and Cosmas Indicopleustes (547 CE).

But, look at where we are: 547 CE, just barely setting foot inside early medieval times with a single verifiable proof of flat earth thinking. Where does this leave the argument that medieval people believed the earth to be flat and were scared of sailing of its edge?!

Spherical Earth

Then, as we proceed into the medieval age, there's abundant evidence of spherical earth thinking. Examples include: St. Isidore of Seville (560-636 CE); the Venerable Bede (673-735 CE); St. Virgil of Salzburg (Vergilius), Bishop (745-784 CE). From here, there is an unending list spherical earth belief represented in the historical record.

It is interesting to note that some of the early spherical proponents during this time were cautious with their views, likely due to fear of repercussions from the Church. Some would simply refer to the ancient Greek teachings, quoting 'the philosophers' as teaching this or that, though without finding fault with them. Others would entirely sidestep the issue by saying we have no reason to ponder such thoughts because all we need to know is in the Bible. Examples of these two cautious approaches include: Saint Basil, Bishop of Caesarea (329-379 CE); St. Augustine (354-430 CE); and St. Isidore of Seville (560-636 CE).

In our view, the Venerable Bede (673-735 CE) represents a major turning point. He not only wrote of a spherical earth, but he did so without the cautious approach described above. This seems to indicate that a spherical view is widely held AND that the Church is not concerned about a scriptural conflict. Bede is also a major turning point because medieval writers who followed him quoted him frequently.

http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/flat_earth_myth_ch2.html


Objections from educated people to Columbus weren't that the ships would fall of the edge of the earth; they were that the distance across the ocean to Asia, Columbus' goal, was so great that the ships would run out of water and food before they got there. They were right - it was finding the islands of the Caribbean that saved Columbus' life. He had come up with an incorrect size for the earth, claiming the distance round it was far shorter than it was really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC