If God really exists, why'd he design pedophiles?

[LAGC]

I mean, homosexuality I can kind of understand. Maybe that's just nature's way of dealing with overcrowding.

But pedophilia? Adults getting their kicks off of little kids, what purpose does it serve?

It just seems so much like the human appendix... a vestigial remnant of our earlier evolution. A random quirk of nature -- there's no real purpose for it at all. We see it in other species all the time, adults preying on children.

Sure, God supposedly designed us all with "free will" but why would one be inclined that way, in terms of sexual orientation, to begin with?

I don't want to hear comparisons to "why do people murder" -- that is clearly environmental, based on the way people are raised.

But pedophilia is BIOLOGICAL! Therapy can suppress the urges in them, but they never go away. This is evident by how often they re-offend.

Why, God, why?

[Gman2]

1. They're the only sociopaths with the Chutzpah to MAN the GOP?

[boston bean]

2. WTF is up with this sentence??

"I mean, homosexuality I can kind of understand. Maybe that's just nature's way of dealing with overcrowding."

my how the mighty DU has fallen.........

[TZ]

6. hmm well in ecology animal homosexual behavior

DOES seem to correlate with overcroweded environments (when the carrying capacity of and environment nears, more homosexual behavior occurs). That is a scientific observation, actually.

[stray cat]

3. Most habits are hard to break and most personality traits - is criminality biological

Beating spouses and children, rape, theft, mistreating people, being a jerk- all are usually recurrent patterns that are difficult to change once established

[Jim__]

4. "But pedophilia is BIOLOGICAL!"

Not all experts agree with you:

A variety of different theories exist as to the causes of pedophilia. A few researchers attribute pedophilia along with the other paraphilias to biology. They hold that testosterone, one of the male sex hormones, predisposes men to develop deviant sexual behaviors. As far as genetic factors are concerned, as of 2002 no researchers have claimed to have discovered or mapped a gene for pedophilia.

Most experts regard pedophilia as resulting from psychosocial factors rather than biological characteristics. Some think that pedophilia is the result of having been sexually abused as a child. Still others think that it derives from the person's interactions with parents during their early years of life. Some researchers attribute pedophilia to arrested emotional development; that is, the pedophile is attracted to children because he or she has never matured psychologically. Some regard pedophilia as the result of a distorted need to dominate a sexual partner. Since children are smaller and usually weaker than adults, they may be regarded as nonthreatening potential partners. This drive for domination is sometimes thought to explain why most pedophiles are males.

More...

But your question is really contained within the well-known question: if god is all-good and all-powerful, why does evil exist?

[LAGC]

11. Interesting, thanks for that.

I never considered the psychosocial factors. It does bring about the comparison to vampires, how once smitten the victim becomes a predator himself. But I don't think that explains away all of pedophilia. Because there are many abuse victims who DON'T grow up to be predators themselves. And I seem to recall seeing a statistic that only something like 25% of pedophiles admitted to being abused as a child. So that still leaves 75% out there that haven't. Although perhaps it is just because of "arrested emotional development" while growing up. Too bad scientists can't yet pinpoint the cause, for certain.

[trotsky]

5. No, the real question is, Why won't God heal amputees?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com

[darkstar3]

7. Equating homosexuality and pedophilia

is exactly the same as equating heterosexuality with pedophilia.

Pedophilia is NOT a sexual orientation. It is a psychological disorder that involves other instincts besides sexuality, chief among them being predation.

It really burns my ass when I see pedophilia equated with homosexuality or bisexuality. At that point, you are stating that homosexuals and bisexuals suffer from some sort of disorder, and the APA understands that this is simply not the case.

Speaking of the APA, they also believe that pedophilia is NOT biological, or at least not wholly biological.

Pedophilia is also not evolutionary. The appendix at one time served a purpose, which is why it is called vestigial instead of unnecessary. Pedophilia, on the other hand, has never served a purpose in the propagation of the species, and therefore could not have come about simply through evolution by natural selection.

Comparisons to murder, rape, other types of heinous crimes are perfectly valid due to the fact that each of these crimes are often the result of serious behavioral disorders such as sociopathy.

And now that I've thoroughly shat all over your thread, I will say that I agree with the premise of your title. If an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving God created all of humanity, pedophilia makes no sense whatsoever.

[LAGC]

10. I didn't meant to equate homosexuality with pedophilia.

Other than to say they are both sexual orientations, in a sense: people having certain proclivities towards certain other groups of people. It will be interesting if scientists ever really figure out if its biological or not. I just don't see why people would choose little kids over adults as sexual partners if there wasn't some underlying cause. If so, it brings up the possibility of catching a certain gene early, and being able to weed it out of the gene pool. But that could have implications for homosexuality as well (parents find out their kid is going to be gay, so they try to "fix" it) which could be dangerous, messing with nature like that.

But just so I'm clear, I see nothing wrong with consenting adults engaging in acts of affection with each other, regardless of gender. I think gay marriage should be legalized.

[darkstar3]

12. Whether you meant to or not, you did.

And further, your first statement is exactly contradictory to mine. Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, in any sense. And by allowing pedophilia to be turned into a deviant sexual orientation, you give the anti-gay bigots ammo.

'I just don't see why people would choose little kids over adults as sexual partners if there wasn't some underlying cause.'
There are MANY underlying causes, all of them psychological/behavioral. There is a whole debate on the concept of 'nature vs. nurture,' where psychologists work with geneticists to determine exactly what traits are due to biology and what traits are due to environment. What they've found so far is that every trait they examined is rooted in both areas. People may be born with a tendency to be _______, but only through environmental factors can that tendency be nurtured, or eliminated.

'If so, it brings up the possibility of catching a certain gene early, and being able to weed it out of the gene pool.'
Eugenics?! How can you possibly be suggesting eugenics on a progressive board? Whether the reich-wing realizes it or not, eugenics is NOT a progressive value or idea.

*deep breath*

I'm glad that we agree on gay marriage, but I also think that when it comes to debate, ideas are not the only things that matter. We must be sure to choose our words very carefully, lest they be turned against us in later arguments.

[LAGC]

13. Not eugenics, exactly.

eu⋅gen⋅ics  "the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, esp. by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics)."

That's not what I meant. I don't see pedophilia as an inheritable trait, even if it is genetic. So I'm not calling for a "selective breeding" program or anything... but if we really could find genes that cause certain maladies, and could safely genetically engineer them out, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that in all circumstances, like if we could prevent cancers and other malignant diseases from occuring in nature. We'd just have to be very careful where we draw the line, that's all.

[iris27]

14. "I don't see pedophilia as an inheritable trait, even if it is genetic." Um...WHAT?

If you think it is genetic, it would therefore by definition be heritable. That's kinda what "genetic" is all about.

The technology to do anything like what you describe re: "safely genetically engineer them out" is still in science fiction territory. We may well be able to pinpoint a gene that predisposes toward pedophilia, and be able to test for it, but we wouldn't be able to do anything about it. It'd be like Down's syndrome or BRCA1/2 (breast cancer genes) today. We can test for them, but when we find them, all we can do is offer elective abortion or otherwise help the person deal with their bad genetic roll of the dice (preventative mastectomy, getting a jump-start on caring for a Down's child, etc.).

Sorry, that sentence just brought out my inner bio nerd and I couldn't leave it alone.

[LAGC]

15. You make a good point.

Taking Down's syndrome as an example... perfectly normal parents can still produce children with those traits. Its not so much inheritable by certain segments of the population as much as it is a random occurrence in nature. But it still stems from biological causes, none-the-less. But I think if we could pin-point a "pedophile gene" it would be helpful, if a parent did elect not to go for an abortion, to at least get those people into therapy ahead of time, to help them control their sexual urges before they actually hurt a child. Although it would suck for the child to be born and raised growing up knowing you had a genetic predisposition to sexual perversion. To be honest, I kind of feel sorry for pedophiles. I really don't think they can help who they are.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rrneck]

9. To challenge children's faith

in an all powerful and loving god.

[Deep13]

32. I think it's working. nt

[ZombieHorde]

16. Is pedophilia biological? The old nature versus nurture.

Is there evidence pedophiles are born and not made?

A good question may be: If God really exists, why'd he design malaria?

[Meshuga]

29. That is a good question

I mean, in my understanding (not my knowledge), the issues with pedophilia in the catholic church stems from the sexual repression of priests. So some of them would act on their sexual urges that had been repressed.

The same could be true of other cases of pedophilia. I had a college girlfriend who confessed that she was sexually abused by her 14 year old brother when she was 7. Sex was taboo in their family and so much so that the parents tried to cover it up rather than address the issue when they discovered it.

I am no expert and I could be wrong but pedophilia seem to originate from and sexually oppressive upbringing or environment more than be part of someone's nature.

[rd_kent]

17. God doesnt exist, so he did not create pedophiles.

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Better yet, why'd he design mosquitos?

[SidneyCarton]

19. Why did he design alcoholics, or addicts in general?

You assume that one cannot control one's impulses.

[LAGC]

20. No, not at all.

People certainly can control their impulses, it just takes a lot of effort for those predisposed to those conditions in the first place.

I just question why those impulses are there to begin with, that's all.

[SidneyCarton]

21. From a theological perspective the answer to your question is quite complex.

If we are indeed the spiritual children of God, how much say does he have in our actual individual personalities, our likes, dislikes, proclivities for certain sins, etc...

Theists (including myself) profess belief in an all-powerful God, but we rarely, if ever, understand exactly what that means. If one believes in the doctrine of Creatio ex Nihlo (That God creates matter from nothing) then your question is devastating, because it makes the assumption that God has full and absolute control over every aspect of the process, and that every character flaw, personality quirk, etc... is put there by divine design with an exact purpose in mind. I do not subscribe to such a doctrine, and believe that there are spiritual raw materials from which God creates spiritual beings. From this perspective, your question takes on a slightly different significance, because it begs one to wonder to what degree the nature of this raw material influences the development of certain individual personality traits.

The question then naturally arises: Why would an all-knowing God bring into existence a creation with such dangerous flaws. The answer to this one is particularly difficult, though I wonder if it is because, much like a parent who is informed that their unborn child will suffer from a serious birth defect, God believes that the potential of this new creation outweighs their imperfections.

[darkstar3]

22. But that means that God is not omnipotent.

By definition, if he doesn't have control over everything, then he is not omnipotent. If he is limited in what he can create by the raw materials of spiritual beings, then how can he be all powerful?

[SidneyCarton]

23. Depends on your conceptions of God.

[darkstar3]

24. More like the definition of omnipotent. n/t

[darkstar3]

30. So I'm still confused

Is your definition of God omnipotent or not?

[LAGC]

25. Where did those "spiritual raw materials" originate then though?

I think you're the one who admitted you were Mormon, am I right? I'm vaguely familiar with Mormon theology. You believe that we all had "before-lives" as well as "after-lives" right? That we were once spirits in some Great Kingdom beyond, and that life on Earth is merely a "test" of our spiritual components, am I mistaken?

My question for you then is: what generated the constitution of those spirit beings in the first place? Or did they always exist? I've always been baffled by this aspect of Mormon theology.

[SidneyCarton]

26. This is where things get really weird.

Your basic assessment of our beliefs regarding a pre-life and an after-life are essentially accurate. The creation of spiritual beings is considered to be the work of God, but they were created from (for lack of a better word) spiritual raw materials, which as far as we claim to know are co-eternal with God, and not created by him.

I realize that such a response is far from satisfying, the invocation that anything may be eternal, and have always existed in one form or another beggars our imaginations. It is merely the doctrine of my faith, which has informed my response to you. Take it or leave it as you see fit.

[LAGC]

27. Well, I happen to believe in eternal forces as well.

That matter always existed and always will exist. I believe the Big Bang as we know it, was only the beginning of a perpetual cycle of expansion and eventual contraction of the universe. So the idea of eternal forces isn't foreign to my way of thinking, even if it is hard for us finite linear beings that start and stop (birth and death) to fathom.

But one thing I don't understand about this concept of a spiritual consciousness before birth is, if life here on Earth is really just a means of test us, whats the point if our memories are wiped clean at birth? I mean, how can we truly be tested if we can't remember who we were in the "pre-life" as you put it? Or are you suggesting there are "spiritual pedophiles" who are predisposed in that way before birth, and some of it still rubs off on their beings once here on Earth? Or do you see it more as just addictive "spirit personalities" that exhibit addictions (such as "sex addictions" in this case) here on Earth? I'm just trying to understand.

[SidneyCarton]

28. Your question is an excellent one.

The primary reason that a test is ever given without a prior opportunity to study is to attempt to get a true gauge of the subject's abilities. Yet earth-life is not just a test, it's also considered a learning experience, one in which one's choices determine the degree of spiritual enlightenment one attains.

I would agree with your analogy of addiction in the case of pedophilia, how this works into the system is that our individuality is to some degree determined by our flaws and the way in which we choose to deal with them. I would imagine that there are far more people who have tendencies toward pedophilia than those who act on them, just as there are far more of us with addictive tendencies than who actually become alcoholics, addicts, etc.

The fact that such impulses are so difficult to resist once indulged upon suggests strongly the powerful nature of this addiction. It appears to act much like cocaine, having the ability to "hook" certain people with a predisposition with as little as one try.

[NotTheist]

31. They needed it

We can never understand, know or b in tune with the almighty, knowing, great and good powerful mind of god(The only real one - the Christian one).

He cares for us so deeply after the bible says so.

He created the pedophile for a reason. How dare you question it because you do not understand.

Possibly the tens of millions that are spent offering therapy to children who have been abused and can not afford insurance since they are now screwed up is good in gods eyes?

Possibly he is helping the children build will power. What does not kill you makes you stronger.

Many serial killers were abused. Serial killers murder several innocent people(hence serial). So, possibly this is gods method of population control.

Many people who are molested are over weight. Because they are overweight they eat more. Because they eat more they stimulate the economy by frequenting fastfood stores.


People who have been tortured, abused, beaten, molested between the ages of 2-14 usually wind up to be fairly screwed up adults. Fairly screw up adults usually need lots of meds. This might be gods wat to stimulate the pharma business.

Many times people who were abused get involved with 'adult entertainment'. This might be gods was of keeping the industry going.

People like you who question the greatness of god make me sick. There are obviously hundreds of thousands of reasons why god does this.

Or possibly? Just possibly.... There is really no reason to believe god loves everyone equally. The 1-14 year old child might have pissed off god or Jesus.

If the lord finds the smell of burning bullflesh pleasing and tells us exactly how to kill, gut and display a dove so it too can please him.... Why assume he does not find the screams of children pleasing?