Homophobia Won Yet Again Tonight At The Academy Awards

[ruggerson]

The seminal movie lost. The movie that addresses themes that society cannot yet confront lost. Hollywood was bludgeoned and threatened enough by the religious rightwing, that they could not comfortably vote for the "gay cowboy" movie. Couple that with the inherent homophobia of much of the older Academy members and... the better movie lost. Crash is a provocative movie, but it addresses themes we have seen countless times.

The movie that pushed the boundaries forward culturally lost. And, ironically, the underlying reasons for its loss are the very themes the movie addresses.

[skipos]

1. Sweet Jesus, they are just a bunch of awards! nt

[ruggerson]

140. Substitute the word "black" for "gay" and "racism" for "homophobia"

in the following and get back to me:

And she is not the only journalist who has written this:

http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=239


How Gay Will Oscar Go?
Handicapping who’ll win, who’ll lose, and who’ll just jerk off
BY NIKKI FINKE - Feb. 2, 2006

Given that it's Oscar time, I nominate the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for Best Bunch of Hypocrites. That’s because this year’s dirty little secret is the anecdotal evidence pouring in to me about hetero members being unwilling to screen Brokeback Mountain. For a community that takes pride in progressive values, it’s shameful that Hollywood’s homophobia may be on a par with Pat Robertson’s.

Despite the hype you’re reading in the press and on the Internet about Brokeback, with its eight nominations, being the supposed favorite to take home the Best Picture Oscar on March 5, Crash could end up winning. The issue isn’t which film is better. The issue is more like which movie was seen by the Academy. Frankly, I find horrifying each whispered admission to me from Academy members who usually pose as social liberals that they’re disgusted by even the possibility of glimpsing simulated gay sex. Earth to the easily offended: This movie has been criticized for being too sexually tame. Hey, Academy, what are you worried about: that you’ll turn gay or, worse, get a stiffie by just the hint of hunk-on-hunk action?

[skipos]

157. Ok, I did that, and I still find that it is just an awards show. Relax.

I disagree with the movies that win more often than I agree with them. If I thought Hustle&Flow stunk, does that mean I am racist? If I thought Memoirs of a Geisha stunk, does that mean I am a racist? Prove that Academy members are "disgusted" by Brokeback Mountain. Unsubstantiated rumors don't count.

[tallahasseedem]

2. I couldn't have been that Crash was a better film....

no that would be way too logical. :eyes:

[ruggerson]

31. Well if some Academy members refused to watch Brokeback

how would they know which was the better film?

[tallahasseedem]

39. Okay....we get it.

Your pissed the movie didn't win the gold statue, but dont take anything away from the other movie during your hissyfit.

[ruggerson]

56. Nah, I'm concerned about straight people refusing to open their eyes

and hurling personal pejoratives doesn't add to the discussion. This is about the subject matter of the OP, not me or you.

[fooj]

100. BBM won 3 ACADEMY AWARDS!

I don't see that as being slighted. Just my 2 cents.

Peace.

[mattclearing]

134. And it should have won 4. n/t

[mattclearing]

133. You can't see both movies and think Crash was better.

I'm sorry...it isn't possible.

[tallahasseedem]

137. Yeah...because we all should think like you.

All hail the all knowing movie critic. :eyes:

[mattclearing]

139. Did you see them both? n/t

[tallahasseedem]

141. Yup.

I even saw Brokeback with a bunch of my gay friends who found it quite forced and boring. How anyone got past Heath Ledger's mumbling is beyond me.

[ruggerson]

144. Do you accuse your "gay friends"

of having "hissy fits" when they say something you disagree with?

I'm just sayin'...

[baby_mouse]

166. Me and my boyfriend do it all the time.

And both of us are gay. AT THE SAME TIME. WITH EACH OTHER.

We must both suffer dreadfully from internalised homophobia. Oh, the humanity.

[ruggerson]

217. What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

She isn't my boyfriend she's a stranger on a message board.

[mattclearing]

152. I liked a lot of Crash, but I felt like some elements were stronger

than others, and some of the heartstring pulling was just unsubtle.

At the end of Brokeback, I bought it in a way that I didn't buy Crash. The direction was fluid, the story was simple enough to be effective, and the acting was fantastic.

Crash felt sort of hit and miss, which is likely to happen when you have multiple plots/characters interacting on the periphery of one another.

So that's why I thought Brokeback Mountain was a more satisfying movie.

But I can see how Hollywood would totally go for a touching feelgood movie about LA.

[baby_mouse]

171. I am unsure of your orientation...

So I can't accuse you of being one those *annoying* "homopositive" straights who bashes on about how homophobic other straight people are without finding out from real homosexuals what they actually want are what they actually feel is oppressive.

It may come as some surprise to some of you but Bareback Mounting's success at the Oscars is *low* down on this queer's "agenda". It's a freckin' movie! I don't give a toss about Heath Ledger's career. I don't even think he's particularly good looking.

Also, actually, the pair of them really annoyed me in that movie and I wouldn't give it *any* Oscars.

Also, I was really PISSED that there were so many stupid people in the States who are apparently unwilling to change their opinions about homosexuality as a result of gay relatives or through reasonable discussion but ARE willing to change their minds because of a "Dancer in the Dark" level stupid FLICK. Twangy twang twang go the sad guitars, god it was annoying.

[TahitiNut]

62. Nope. 'Munich' didn't win because Hollywood is antisemitic. Clear?

Everyone knows that there are very few Jews and gays in Hollywood, don't they?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Hatalles]

96. Good point. 'Paradise Now' didn't win Best Foreign Film either...

... need I continue?

I haven't seen either film yet, Brokeback Mountain or Crash, but I've heard a lot of good things about both... definitely will get around to them though as soon as I can find the time. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

114. But I thought the Jews ruled everything?!

:sarcasm:

[bullwinkle428]

138. I had to read those comments last night on another board -

people were saying that was the reason a certain film with a Palestinian theme wasn't as highly recognized. "The Jews" still remain many people's favorite whipping boy...

[mattclearing]

130. Especially considering that it wasn't.

Seen 'em both. It's not even close.

[ruthg]

226. It would be way too logical....

if in fact, Crash, was a better film. I don't think it was. I liked it but it was defenitely my least favorite of the five ( all of which were unusually good this year). I would have voted for Brokeback and Good Night etc - both... a tie.

My main complaint is that David Stratharin finally gets noticed and it has to be the same year that there were two other extrodinary performances ( Ledger and Hoffman). I adore David Stratharin.

good year for movies.

[Singular73]

3. Yeah, that must be it.

/sigh

So if any movie except Brokeback wins, its an anti-gay thing.

Gotcha.

[ruggerson]

6. Considering that industry journals

have reported what I wrote in the OP, I'd say yeah, that's exactly what it is.

[FreedomAngel82]

115. So are you going to post links to those OP's or not?

[ruggerson]

22. Try this on for size

LA WEEKLY

Handicapping who’ll win, who’ll lose, and who’ll just jerk off
BY NIKKI FINKE - Feb. 2, 2006

Given that it's Oscar time, I nominate the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for Best Bunch of Hypocrites. That’s because this year’s dirty little secret is the anecdotal evidence pouring in to me about hetero members being unwilling to screen Brokeback Mountain

Despite the hype you’re reading in the press and on the Internet about Brokeback, with its eight nominations, being the supposed favorite to take home the Best Picture Oscar on March 5, Crash could end up winning. The issue isn’t which film is better. The issue is more like which movie was seen by the Academy. Frankly, I find horrifying each whispered admission to me from Academy members who usually pose as social liberals that they’re disgusted by even the possibility of glimpsing simulated gay sex. Earth to the easily offended: This movie has been criticized for being too sexually tame. Hey, Academy, what are you worried about: that you’ll turn gay or, worse, get a stiffie by just the hint of hunk-on-hunk action?

[FreedomAngel82]

199. What, no link?

I do like to go read the whole thing.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

4. nonsense

crash was a better movie.

and it should have won best director, too.

the only thing outback got robbed on was best supporting. Michelle Williams totally deserved it, in my book.

[FreedomAngel82]

200. Yes

She's a great actress all around. I didn't care for any of the other people in her category.

[Journeyman]

5. Take a deep breath . . .

accept that industry groups are not always going to agree with the general public, and take heart that both films even got made, given the tenor of the times, and that both may have an ameliorative effect on society. And for that, we are all winners.

[cboy4]

53. Now what a very nice post. Maybe you can teach

a class here a DU.

[Dem2theMax]

84. The smilie says it all.

:applause:

Bravo. You said it all in a nutshell.

Heck, all five films up for best picture were truly wonderful films. They all had something important to say. Hopefully, people will listen. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

201. So when was there a poll on BBM????

How do you know how the general public feels about BBM? I think I missed that poll.

[Journeyman]

208. It was a generalized statement. . .

intended to be illustrative of general trends seen with all such "awards shows" through the years, and not indicative of any "scientific" or "popular" poll. I also extended my words to the original poster as a measure of kindness and compassion, since he seemed distraught by the decision of the Academy.

With this said, may I give some unsolicited but heartfelt advice, and -- with all due respect, and only because I believe few people other than you and I will read this -- may I point out that this horse is dead. It's time to get off.

[DesertRat]

7. I thought Crash was a better movie. n/t

[ruggerson]

8. Crash is derivative.

it's a theme we've seen countless times. Not a bad flick, but not anywhere near worthy of Best Picture.

[billkurtmeyer]

49. How is it derivative - we haven't seen it countless times?

The message is that everyone is racist, but everyone has some good in them. However, with that said I would imagine that they didn't have W in mind!

[jeffrey_X]

72. Really?

When in the 60's?

People write off race like it's a thing of the past. Thank "god" somebody has the balls to still call it like it is.

[Speed8098]

119. That is your opinion

Personally I thought Crash was excellent.

[BoneDaddy]

178. Actually I disagree

I thought it took themes that may have been old but are still very very pertinent in this day and age. I thought the acting was phenomenal and it's approach to race wasn't suger coated, patronizing or simple "Black and white". I thought it extremely thought provoking.

[DesertRat]

209. I respect your opinion

But I haven't seen the theme of Crash countless times. I thought it was an excellent movie. And apparently so did the Academy.

[ruthg]

228. I agree...It was Shortcuts meets Grand Canyon.

[marmar]

9. I'm not discounting that there's homophobia among voters...

but it's all so subjective...
I agreed that Brokeback was better than Crash, but I felt personally that Munich was the best picture. And several of my friends assert that Capote was better than all of them...
It's so hard to definitely say that homophobia is what decided the best picture winner. Ang Lee won best director, and Philip Seymour Hoffman won best actor potraying a gay man.
I agree that Brokeback was a seminal picture and had the most societal impact, but did that make it best picture? I don't know.

[SoCalDem]

20. Many GREAT movies never won best picture

And after a while people think they DID win..:)

[mediaman007]

44. I'm still upset that "Titanic" won. I preferred "L.A. Confidential."

[Guaranteed]

71. Titanic winning was a travesty.

Same for Gladiator, only slightly less so.

And I also thought LA Confidential was great.

[Chipper Chat]

86. Also "Oliver" in 1968

2001 A Space Odyssey was light-years better.

[Perky]

126. Agreed.

[regnaD kciN]

33. Hollywood is anti-Semitic!

I agreed that Brokeback was better than Crash, but I felt personally that Munich was the best picture.

Not to argue with your opinion (I haven't seen any of the three), but let's fit it in with the topic of this thread.

Crash, about racism, won Best Picture.
Brokeback Mountain, about a gay couple, didn't win the main award, but won a number of other major prizes.
Munich, about the Israeli revenge for the Olympic attacks, won nothing.

Therefore, it would appear that African-Americans are more acceptable among Academy voters than gays. However, it would also appear that gays are more acceptable among Academy voters than Jews.

Ergo, Hollywood is, above all, anti-Semitic.

:eyes:

[secretmouse]

109. Such sardonic humor...

Hollywood is OWNED by Jews! Jon Stewart is Jewish!...most of the major producers and directors are Jewish..."Munich" just wasn't a favorite this year..Gawd!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

202. By gosh I think you've figured it out!

And here people say the Jews rule everything! :sarcasm:

[jseankil]

10. Haven't seen Homophobia but I know Crash is a great film! /nm

nm

[Booster]

13. Great answer & you're right. I saw both films and Crash was a

better movie. Brokeback was slow in many places, and you certainly can't say Crash was slow.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

41. Crash had a fantastic screenplay, and it was realized perfectly.

I saw it when it came out early last year and was heartbroken because I felt that it would be out of Oscar contention. An out of sight out of mind thing... Amazingly it kept in the hearts and minds of those who counted.

[FreedomAngel82]

203. Yes I was very surprised myself

[QC]

77. Yeah, BBM really needed some car crashes and a few explosions.

That would have taken care of the slowness!

[Booster]

91. Well, it needed something.

[QC]

98. I dunno, I thought it was quite good, but then I have no problem with

subtlety.

[ruthg]

229. I thought BBM was riveting. I saw it twice and I will no doubt see it....

again. Amazing nuanced performances. The scene at Jack's parents house still gives me goosebumps as does Ennis' last scene with his daughter.

Its a wonderful film.

[malaise]

118. I saw both and agree with you

Breaking ground does not mean 'best picture'.

[Erika]

30. The film was vanilla not chocolate

and aimed at mediocrity.

[fooj]

101. I don't get the "vanilla not chocolate" thing.

Are you talking about Crash? It was about many ethnicities...

What's with the flavor of the month?

Peace.

[Webster Green]

11. Hollywood doesn't seem that homophobic to me.

Just my opinion.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

12. So Homophobic it won best director

and the best actress nominee was about a TS. and two best actor nominees were gay characters, as was one supporting actor character

and two of the best picture nominees were about gay characters.

What a bunch of nonsense.

[nonconformist]

32. Ditto. Exactly what I was going to post. nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

214. Best Director is voted on by directors *only*;

>>>So Homophobic it won best director>>>>

'Best Film' is voted by the entire academy... many of whom, the OP suggests, refused to see Brokeback.


"Nonsense" it is not.

[Harper_is_Bush]

14. Brokeback won lots of awards, and was roundly praised.

Your claim is a bit silly.

[mondo joe]

15. Come off it. Crash sucked. Brokeback was brilliant. BUT...

the awards don't indicate homophobia. Plenty of crapp movies win best picture, and Crash was nothing if not shallow liberal-porn. So don't be surprised it won.

[ruggerson]

19. Read this:

http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=239

And it's not just her saying this. This has been the word of mouth for a month now.

[ruthg]

227. infuriating. Damn.

[entanglement]

186. self delete

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Heh heh...you said seminal...

Heh heh...

[degreesofgray]

17. Brokeback won for

best director, best original screenplay, and Phillip Seymour Hoffman won for his portrayal of Truman Capote. So, in order to not be homophobic, does Brokeback have to win for every category it's nominated ?(I can't comment on my preference for best movie, since I have seen only one of the nominated films).

[semillama]

165. I think everyone is missing the true underlying issue

and that is the fact that BM didn't win Best Picture because of the growing problem of cowboy bashing.

Heck, even BM was afraid to make its characters actual cowboys, instead opting for the less controversial job of sheepherder (and why aren't they called shephards? Does it have to do with the fact they ride horses or something?).

It used to be that the cowboy was respected in Hollywood. Now they spit on Clint Eastwood.

:sarcasm:

[Touchdown]

174. They were only shepherds in the 1st part.

Ennis was a cowboy, working on a cattle ranch in the rest of the film. Jack? Rodeo riders are not called shepherds.

I thought Crash was a better film, but only slightly. I would've been happy if either won BP. Yes, I'm gay, and no, I don't suffer from internalized homophobia, or wish to be an assimilationist, with place at the table. I think the OP is full of crap. :eyes:

[BR_Parkway]

194. But then Hoffman couldn't have won due to homophobia!

OMG, I'm starting to understand how the Freepers feel with hearing that all arabs are terrorists and will kill you except when they want to buy our ports. Heads exploding!

[stillcool]

18. Very rarely do I agree with the choice...

of "Best Movie"...on a similar note...the entire spectacle seemed intentionally 'muted', so as to provide not one piece of ammo for the blow-hards to spew...but then again I see conspiracies everywhere!

[hippywife]

220. I didn't think so.

The whole montage at the beginning about not making movies like they used to was an hysterical "in-your-face-fundie-homophobes" moment! I loved it!

[angee_is_mad]

21. Oh pleese

Give me a break. I guess, Crash did not push any buttons!

[hopeisaplace]

23. My awards given tonight ...:)

Best Oscar Dress: Uma Thurman

Favorite Oscar fun moment: Streep and Tomlin

Other favorite Dresses: Reese Witherspoon, and Selma Hyack (<--spelling of Hyack? dunno)

Best Oscar Acceptance Speeches: Reese Witherspoon, George Clooney

Sexiest Oscar Men: Clooney, Phoenix, Jon Stewart

[Guaranteed]

24. Well, you might be right.

It's an uncomfortable subject. That's why movies like Brokeback Mountain are important.

In fact, I haven't been able to bring myself to see it, yet, for some reason. I hear how good it is, and I imagine that if I did see it, I'd agree. But I just can't do it, yet.

On the flip side, I did see Capote- which was absolutely BRILLIANT. The Giovanni's Room (a great book, as well) references were intelligible by those who followed the movie emotionally. And Hoffman won Best Actor for his Capote portrayal.

These things take time. Let the movie sink in- more and more people will see it. It just came out.

[Dem2theMax]

95. Please do go and see Brokeback. Or rent it when it comes out.

There are all of about four or five 'uncomfortable' (for some people, not me) minutes in the entire film. Once you see it, you'll be saying 'what was the big deal?'

The 'big deal' is the love shared, not the sex shared. It's a fantastic movie.
Two thumbs way up!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. Ridiculous! I just don't think Brokeback was that great of a film. I

think it got where it did because of its brave subject matter. Crash was a far better film. In my opinion the best movie wasn't even nominated...The Constant Gardner.

[MoonRiver]

122. Oh boy, do I agree with you about the Constant Gardener!

That it was not nominated is an outrage, imho. I also really, really likes Geisha. Glad it got the awards for visual effects (can't remember what they're called :dunce:).

[Merlot]

26. Not liking the film is not the same as homophobia.

Hollywood has always been tollerant of diversity. I really don't think hollywood was "bludgeoned and threatened" by the RW wackos. The fact that this movie was made and nominated pretty much belies that theory.

As for the older Academy members being homophobic - that's a pretty mean and unair lable to put on these people. Many older people may not be that comfortable with the subject matter. The society they came of age in looked at things differently. Don't hold that against them that at their age they aren't comfortable watching two men kiss. It doesn't mean they hate them or fear them.

Cut them some slack...isn't that gays expect from society - tolerance?

[Erika]

28. The actors were superb in Brokeback Mountain

It looks like the voters simply showed tolerance to racism not sexual orientation. I don't give a damn about their age.

[fishwax]

93. heath ledger was outstanding

jake gyllenhal not so much (he was okay, don't get me wrong, just not spectacular.) But ledger's creation and command of that character was just stunning to me. I grew up (predominantly) in Wyoming, and watching Ennis on the screen was a little like a reunion.

[fooj]

102. Yep...that's why Capote walked away with an Oscar for Best Actor...

:eyes:

[QC]

103. Well, that's the kind of gay character the establishment loves.

Safely stereotypical, easy to spot, nothing at all like Mr. Normal and the guys at his club. Characters like that have been in films since the days of the silents and they still make up most film and television portrayals of gays.

Suggesting that an icon of masculinity could be gay, on the other hand, is not safe at all, especially for an industry as timid as Hollywood.

[fooj]

105. Point taken.

However, I fail to see what all of the "uproar" is about!!! For goodness sake...BOTH BBM and CRASH WON 3 Academy Awards! What's not to celebrate?

Peace.

[cboy4]

106. The uproar is not directed toward you. You are not the problem

Forget the movie and forget the awards for a second.

Do you see the vicious attacks directed against the original poster?

There was absolutely no sympathy. No understanding. No, "well, I don't understand you're point can you explain?" etc.

Instead it was you're stupid, you're an idiot, this wins an award for the dumbest post. You gays are always crying homophobia.

I'll tell you what. If an African American says something is racist, I don't dismiss it. I listen and try to understand.

You can't say the same about many of the people who contributed to this thread.

[U4ikLefty]

112. Excellent post. I hope the liberals here will get what you are saying

sometimes I have tried to distance myself from the bigotry that hides underneath my "liberal facade". I have found that the release & discussion of BM has brought me to a new understanding with my gay friends and myself as a straight male struggling with my identity.

I haven't seen either movie. I haven't seen "Crash" because I have been a witness to many racist/bigoted cops in LA for many years as a Angeleno. I have been personally beaten by them (Hello South Gate & LAPD cops!!!), and have seen my "dark" friends treated to a menu of horrible punishments that aren't in our constitution. Maybe because I have been through the "real thing" a few times in my life and I don't need a movie to tell me what is real about LA racism.

..but the daily struggle with our sexuality is something that every man must deal with. We as men should be more empathetic to our gay brothers because male sexuality is not "dirty" of "wrong"...it something that is as beautiful as female sexuality.

That being said, I am glad BM has been such a success, beacuse it will make many men face reality, even if it is uncomfortable.

[dsc]

29. You are kidding, right?

Let's take a look at history. African American performers have routinely been unrewarded by Oscar. It took until the early 1990's for another black woman to take home an acting Oscar after the 1939 win for Hattie. It was in the 2000's before one took home a best actress oscar.

What does it mean if you don't wish to see two men kiss but are perfectly willing to see a straight couple kiss.

[izzybeans]

182. Were there any gay performers in this movie?

African-Americans were passed up as real people with an authentic identity. Aren't Heath and Jake married to/dating women? so who is being discrimated against? Ang Lee? he won an award perhaps more prestigious than the one being discussed here.

It is possible to not like this movie as it was possible to like it absent its subject matter. Maybe all those who didn't like Crash dislike because they are racists and could not stand the difficult in your face nature of presenting it. The two arguments are parallel and both are bunk for most people on this board.

[cboy4]

43. I'll tell you what gays expect from our fellow DU'ers

We expect a little bit more sensitivity.

Instead of mocking ruggerson, why not respond by saying, yah know, I really don't think homophobia played into the decision to not give Brokeback the award, but I understand your frustration and I'm sorry.

Would that be so tough?

Instead we have nothing but crappy, borderline hurtful responses from people I expect a lot more from.

[QC]

82. Don't expect so much.

The cluelessness about class and sexuality here are boundless.

[Bluebear]

97. Good luck with that.

:(

[Touchdown]

176. Get over it Mary.

I'm gay, and I think Ruggerson is way out of line. I don't scream "HOMOPHOBE!" when someone burns my hamburger at the corner diner, and that's exactly what he's doing here. He has no proof of homophobia, just an allegation. I completely understand his frustration to be the center of attention in this thread, and to sift some ego tonic for himself as well.

Yeah, I'm gay, and don't abide drama queens.

[cboy4]

198. I appreciate the Log Cabin propaganda

But the fact is I'll never get over it until there are more open gay people in the movies.

That's your business if you're comfortable with straight people laughing at you, but I'm not.

[Touchdown]

211. Oooh! I'm damaged. A Log Cabinette! How will I ever cope?

Who's laughing at us? Openly gay people in the movies are there, whether actors or characters. None of which has anything to do with Crash winning best picture, which has nothing to do with homophobia. Ang Lee won best director. Alan Cumming, John Hurt, Ian McKellan and probably a few others are all in films this year, starting with V for Vendetta, and X-Men III.

Now that you know about McKellan, etc. I honestly don't know what you're bitching about.

[cboy4]

213. I'm bitching about the fact that there are almost no

openly OUT gay actors in motion picture Hollywood. What's wrong with you?

While I don't know for sure whether homophobia played into the decision, you also don't know that it didn't, do you?

The fact of the matter is actors are afraid to come out in Hollywood because they're afraid they won't be cast.

My argument is that this is no longer 1946. This is 2006, and of all places, liberal Hollywood still suffers from a gay bias, and it's ridiculous.

If you can't at least concede that, than you're hopeless.

[Touchdown]

223. Your gripe has nothing to do with this subject.

You injecting a side issue into this confounds the issue of whether or not BBM was snubbed out of homophobia. The OP has the burden of proof that it was. I've yet to see any evidence of it. It's not my responsibility to prove that it's not homophobia. Nobody can prove a negative.

I agree that actors aren't out for the reasons you state, but that is not the issue at hand. You sound like Mona Charen on a Fox show. Everybody is talking about Abu Ghraib, and she brings up "What about lesbian fisting?"

[Mike Daniels]

221. I think you may be off on John Hurt

His file on IMDB http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000457/bio lists 4 spouses (including a current one) and 1 long-term live-in relationship. Unless the names listed are all incorrect they all appear to be female.

If he's gay he has an odd way of expressing it giving that he always has the option of staying single and not marrying another woman.

[angee_is_mad]

27. Brokeback had the bigger budget

and more buzz. But tonight proved that 6 million dollar (truly) independent film about something that touches just about everyone in this country everyday can earn a Oscar. Noticed that I wrote EARNED, because that is exactly what Crash did. It earned that damn Oscar.

[WildEyedLiberal]

34. You win the Academy Award for stupid DU post of the night

Erm, congratulations...

[ruggerson]

219. Really? Well I share it apparently with Ken Turin of the LA Times

http://theenvelope.latimes.com/awards/oscars/env-turan5mar05,0,5359042.story


But, you won't read this. It doesn't jive with your misconceptions.

[question everything]

35. Have you seen Crash?

I think that it dared more and it covered more topics that people think but do not talk about it. Have you been to LA in the past 15 years, or so?

Philadelphia won several years ago, so what are you complaining about?

[ruggerson]

38. Yes, and yes and not complaining just speaking the truth.

[Clarkie1]

48. Give me a break! You're not speaking "the truth!"

Your speaking your OPINION!

Get off the high horse (so to speak).

[ruggerson]

74. Ok, so from on we all speak "opinion" to power.

you're right, in general that's much better. And here I thought that personal experience was truth.

[Clarkie1]

81. You are assuming Brokeback lost because of it's content

not because it was an inferior film.

That's not speaking "to power," that's an opinion.

[ruggerson]

89. Based on empirical evidence

See up above, Nikki Finke's column. See O'Briens "Gold Derby" in the LA Times where he mentions the exact same thing (as a matter of fact he was calling for Crash to upset Brokeback). The buzz about this was all over town for the last month. The Academy members and studio folks I deal with professionally confirmed and validated that this was their experience as well.

So what I have is "opinion" based on firsthand experience and empirical evidence. What the people who disagree with me have is uninformed opinion based on absolutely nothing (and angry, uninformed opinion at that).

[dsc]

59. No it didn't

Hanks did and one of its songs did. But neither the director nor the picture won.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

76. Honestly "Philadelphia" wasn't a very good film......

It was really just a showcase for Hanks to put on a touching performance and get an Oscar.

It certainly was not the film "Schindler's List" was.

[dsc]

78. By no means am I claiming it to have been

but people should be accurate. No gay themed film has won best picture.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

83. Sorry, didn't mean to say you did......

...just arguing from a film standpoint.

Now, I've never seen "Midnight Cowboy" which won "Best Picture". Wasn't that a 'gay themed movie'? I seriously don't know.

[dsc]

85. It was male prostitutes but neither one was gay

good film though and Voight was both very cute and very good in it.

[MamaBear]

169. Not best picture

True Grit won best picture that year. It was the year I quit watching the Oscars.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

207. No, Midnight Cowboy won.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064665/awards

John Wayne did win best actor, it was generally accepted as his "lifetime achievement" Oscar.

[cboy4]

36. Alright, someone name ONE out major, or semi-major gay actor or actress

That's right. You can't name one, can you? Because there aren't any!!!

Actors are afraid they won't be cast in a film if they come out.

You really think there aren't many gay people in show business? Please. Why don't we know about them?

This so called gay cowboy movie is a step in the right direction, but all of you who say it's bullshit that homophobia isn't alive and well in Hollywood, with all due respect, just don't know what the fuck you're talking about...you just don't. Period. :argh:

Ruggerson thank you for your post.

[ruggerson]

37. They just don't see it

they refuse to see it. It amazes me, but I guess it shouldn't.

How sad.

[cboy4]

47. It is so disappointing, and yes sad.

N/T

[NYCGirl]

40. The reason these actors don't come out openly is not because Hollywood

is homophobic — it's because middle America is homophobic.

[Charlie Brown]

55. Ian McKellan n/t

[cboy4]

65. Never heard of him

keep trying

[Charlie Brown]

68. You've never heard of Ian McKellan?

He's possibly one of the greatest actors of his generation, and one of the most vocal gay-rights supporters in the business. I suggest you run to the nearest rental store and check out Richard III (1995), Gods and Monsters (1999, Oscar nom for best actor), and all of the Lord of the Rings movies (also nominated) as quick as possible, then get back to me.

[cboy4]

73. That's the problem. His generation.

How about this generation?

And of course I know who Ian McKellan is.

My point is you should be able to rattle off the names of gay actors in their 20's, 30's and 40's and you can't do it.

[Touchdown]

Oh' way to move that goalpost there.

You asked a question, it was answered.

McKellan is the first gay actor who has not only one, but TWO action figure toys in the stores, Gandalf, and Magneto (from X-Men) and kids are buying them up.

[cboy4]

204. OMG, you've got me now

I'm breathing into a paper bag, I'm so impressed that there is one, 80 year old man from England who is gay and in the movies.

Give me a break

[Touchdown]

212. Early 60s. Get off of it.

When you have action figures, lunch boxes, and video games in the toy stores, then you can brag.

Does Kevin Kline count, or does it have to be Haley Joel Osmet?

[cboy4]

215. My mistake. You're right, there's no homophobia in Hollywood

because some 60 year old from England has action figures and lunch boxes out :rofl:

And what the hell are you talking about with Kevin Kline?

He is straight (married Phoebe Cates) and played a gay character!!

I'm talking about major to semi major GAY actors/actresses. Not straight people playing gay rolls.

[Touchdown]

224. How many out gay actors have action figures?

1. It's an acheivement. Baby steps cboy4.

Kevin Kline? He may be married to Cates, but he likes to be spanked by leather daddys, according to my sources in the S&M community.

I've never seen a gay roll before, but a friend of mine made a big dick out of 6 Pillsbury Crescent Rolls before.:rofl:


I never said there was no hoomophobia in Hollywood. I said that it's an awful stretch to conclude BBM not winning BP is due to homophobia by the academy. Nobody here has made that case yet.

[ruggerson]

79. I think his point is

that Jodie Foster, Matthew McConaughey, Kevin Spacey, just to name a very few, don't dare be who they are and some even go to elaborate lengths to hide who they are, and this is in the year of our lord 2006. not 1956.

[cboy4]

80. LOL. Yes!

DUH

[Mike Daniels]

222. I think most people believe that Foster and Spacey are gay

Perhaps the individual actors themselves don't feel it's important to announce it to the world?

Whatever happened to just believing that some things just aren't the public's business?

[fishwax]

69. he played Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings trilogy n/t

[opiate69]

94. Sir Ian McKellan, for one.

[SidDithers]

131. Rupert Everett...

Came out in 1989 and has still had some pretty major Hollywood roles.

Sid

[CBGLuthier]

142. Ian Mckellan

Surely we can not deny that this man who has had two nominations (and should have won for Gods and Monsters) is not a major actor.

Yes, the academy is sadly skewed older and some what homophobic. Would a Beautiful Mind have won if Nash's bisexuality had been included.

American Beauty won best picture. I know it is a satire and written by a gay man but the gay character in it is borderline offensive.

I have not seen the films Crash and Brokeback Mountain because I watch movies at home. i will see both movies before I can decide which is the better.

[catbert836]

237. Okay

Rudolf Valentino
Ian McKellan
Graham Chapman
Rupert Everett
Stephen Fry
Nigel Hawthore

And many more... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gay_actors

[billkurtmeyer]

42. Get over the gay thing - now with that said I'm the biggest supporter of

gay rights but Crash was a remarkable film!

[Clarkie1]

45. Maybe Crash was just a better movie. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

46. BTW.... didn't Tom Hanks win Best Actor in 1993 for playing a gay

lawyer with AIDS?

[Guaranteed]

52. Yes, but that wasn't a gay love story. nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

57. Not a gay love story with sex, but a love story. Don't you remember he

had a very loving partner played by Antonio Banderas?

[Guaranteed]

64. To call Philadelphia a love story is an exaggeration.

In fact, Philadelphia was about a man with AIDS, who happened to be gay. It was a story about justice, not love.

[ruggerson]

92. That's exactly right

it was a courtroom drama about treating people equally, despite their disease or disability.

[ruggerson]

58. That was about the "gay-as-diseased-victim"

something mainstream society and Hollywood can accept.

But a love story that puts gay relationships ON A PAR with heterosexual ones?

No fucking way.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. See my above post. And as to victim? The beauty of his character

was that he didn't allow himself to be considered a victim.

[Guaranteed]

50. Courageous post about a subtle point.

This is my second post in this thread, but the more I think about it, the more I think that you're probably right about what you're saying.

Solid. Keep speaking out.

[KingFlorez]

51. Freeper-type logic

What I mean is taking things too seriously and over analyzing. I mean Crash did have the more complex storyline.

[Beelzebud]

54. It won best screenplay and best director... How can you honestly say that?

And best score. Get real...

[dysfunctional press]

63. exactly...and crash was just a better movie.

i just wish that matt dillon could have won.

[KingFlorez]

66. I'm buying it next week

After all I've heard, it needs to be in my collection.

[marmar]

61. I cannot believe how NASTY this post has gotten...

Clearly, there are many opinions on what the best picture was. But can't we disagree and be civil?

It's wrong to assert that there's no homophobia in Hollywood - you probably don't have to look very far to find homophobia, racism, anti-Semitism, sexism or whatever, even in "liberal" Hollywood.
But it's also wrong to assume that homophobia is definitely what determined the Best Picture. I know lots of people who saw Brokeback, Capote, Munich and Crash and loved all four, and you'd have lots of choices for best picture among those people.
If you're choosing the most groundbreaking movie with the biggest social impact, it's Brokeback without question. But does that make it best movie in the critical sense? I'm not so sure. You could have chosen any of those four for best picture without much regret, IMHO.

[alittlelark]

90. I second marmar's view.

....sour grapes.... there were a few GREAT movies nominated. Most LOST. It is what it is.

I thought Brokeback Mtn was AWESOME - the short story was MUCH better in my mind - but I made the mistake of reading it. I only saw 2 of the other nominees.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

It's all good.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

67. "Bridges of Madison County" didn't win an Oscar either

I guess the Academy hates older people being romantic and boring about it too.

[Lavender Brown]

70. Why are assuming it got few votes? It could have been very close

The fact that it didn't win doesn't necessarily say much about what everyone's feelings were towards the film. It's not an election, it's a little gold man.

[6000eliot]

75. The truly good, groundbreaking films rarely ever win best picture.

How many past best picture winners do you still watch today? I haven't seen either movie, but you only have to have eyes to see which is the more important film.

[eggman67]

87. Bull. The Academy got it right

I've seen all the films. Hoffman's performance was brilliant. He deserved that Oscar. Crash was the better overall film. That doesn't diminish BBM.

[jeffrey_X]

88. And if Brokeback would have won, racism would have won instead?

:confused:

[rwinkler]

99. My 16 year old son says Capote

was better than Crash. Although I loved Crash and have not seen BBM thought I'd throw this in. I think he liked it better because it was real and a true story of very compelling events and Hoffman was brilliant so I'm happy with the decisions of the Academy it seemed like everyone got a piece of the action including BBM.

[fooj]

104. Welcome to DU!

I'm pleased, too. You know...it seems as though every year ONE movie runs away with everything. It's nice that the "love" was spread around, IMO. For goodness sakes...BBM AND Crash BOTH won 3 ACADEMY AWARDS!

Peace.

[secretmouse]

107. With all due respect...

...I disagree; of the two movies, both of which are EXCELLENT,"Crash" was the better film as far as addressing issues...and much more powerful than "Brokeback".JMHO

[fujiyama]

108. I have seen neither film

and I don't know if homophobia was what influenced their choice.

But it does seem as though Crash was the "safer" of the two films to award. Plus considereing they awarded Best SCreenplay and Director for Brokeback, they might have figured they would "split" the win for the two front runners.

Personally, I don't usually agree with the Academy's picks for Best Picture, but I don't take it too seriously anyways. I'm sort of amused by all the fuss over this.

[Sleepless In NY]

110. Saw BBM, Crash, Capote, Good Night & Good Luck, etc

All good movies..but was hoping against hope "Good Night & Good Luck" would win. Wish more people had seen this movie, I think its a real eye opener, as to just how manipulated by fear, this country has become. Same tactics being used today. History repeating itself. And Unfortunately, a lot of Americans don't know their own history. Whether it's fear of terrorists or being unpatriotic, or of gays. And in the climate we are living in now..it would be a great help, to remind some & educate others.


So I was very disappointed it didnt win..but very happy because George Clooney won..both "Syriania" & "Good Night & Good Luck" were both excellent films..and besides Clooney's winning is sure to piss off O'Reilly! Hope Keith O rubs it on Monday nights show.

Besides BBM has won so many other "Best Movie" awards & was a box office hit. I don't think a homophobic message was sent because Philip Seymour Hoffman portrayed Capote & he was gay. Rather, I think they spilt it up to honor all of the movies, and so many of them were so good.

My only disappointments of the night were Reese Witherspoon winning...anybody else would have suited me...saw "Walk the Line" not at all impressive, she's as whiny in real life , as she was in the film. And Jon Stewart playing it safe... love Jon..but he's an expert at political humor, and he was stifiled, which made for a very boring show. Didn't hurt Letterman, and it wont hurt Jon, so not to worry.

[Behind the Aegis]

111. I am finding myself in some agreement.

I saw "Crash." It was an OK movie. It is a great training tool for diversity classes, but Best Picture? Naw. What makes me agree with the homophobia part is that people voting in the Best Picture category, didn't even see the film. Therefore, how can they say "Crash" was the best movie? It was simply their choice for Best Picture over the other three films. Wanna go the conspiracy route...they chose the worst of the five (the dark horse) to upset the gay film. :tinfoil:

Also, I am glad Lee won, but it was a "safe" award. To say a 'gay' movie is the "Best Picture" of the year would have have been paramount, in the eyes of some, as saying homosexuality is acceptable.

[mondo joe]

154. LOL - Diversity training! That's exactly what I've been looking for to

describe Crash. All the subtlety of a diversity training video.

[FreedomAngel82]

113. Where's your proof?

[U4ikLefty]

116. OMG what an intelligent question!!! {/sarcasm}

maybe you wish to post an opinion rather than a hit & run bullshit question.

Otherwise, I can ask you of your "proof" of the Second Law of Thermodynamics...which there is none.

No offense, but I fucking hate questions like yours, becasue they make no sense to anyone with an ounce of intelligence & the ability to do some research.

[ruggerson]

136. You must have missed this up top -

And she is not the only journalist who has written about this:

http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=239


How Gay Will Oscar Go?
Handicapping who’ll win, who’ll lose, and who’ll just jerk off
BY NIKKI FINKE - Feb. 2, 2006

Given that it's Oscar time, I nominate the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for Best Bunch of Hypocrites. That’s because this year’s dirty little secret is the anecdotal evidence pouring in to me about hetero members being unwilling to screen Brokeback Mountain. For a community that takes pride in progressive values, it’s shameful that Hollywood’s homophobia may be on a par with Pat Robertson’s.

Despite the hype you’re reading in the press and on the Internet about Brokeback, with its eight nominations, being the supposed favorite to take home the Best Picture Oscar on March 5, Crash could end up winning. The issue isn’t which film is better. The issue is more like which movie was seen by the Academy. Frankly, I find horrifying each whispered admission to me from Academy members who usually pose as social liberals that they’re disgusted by even the possibility of glimpsing simulated gay sex. Earth to the easily offended: This movie has been criticized for being too sexually tame. Hey, Academy, what are you worried about: that you’ll turn gay or, worse, get a stiffie by just the hint of hunk-on-hunk action?

[Raydawg1234]

117. Did you even watch Crash???

The issues in Crash are perhaps more important because it covers prejudices of all stipes among all kinds of people. What makes you think that brokeback is entitled to anything.

[Puglover]

121. I watched "Crash" and

it had the subtlety of a baseball bat. This reviewer sez it best.

“Crash” is saying “How horrible that we're all this way” when most of us are not only not this way but the exact opposite of this way. We may think these thoughts but we rarely enunciate them. Sure, racism still exists, but at its most potent it's usually silent. It's opaque. It makes you wonder “Is this happening because of race?” You suspect but you have no evidence. “Crash” not only gives us evidence it manipulates the evidence.


edit to add link

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11480804/

[mondo joe]

129. Unfortunately, I saw it twice. Once on my own, and once with a friend who

wanted to see it before the awards show. It did not improve with repetition.

So far the best defense of Crash is that it covered important issues. That, IMO, is neither here nor there with regard to movie making.

[Mass]

120. LOL The movie you wanted to win did not win, so the academy

is prejudiced?

Well, I think the academy and Hollywood are a bunch of pro Bush, pro Marcarthy supporters. They did not give the "Awards" to "Good Luck and Good night" and we needed to have the message sent throughout the country given the state of the media.

You sir are a "Bush supporter". :sarcasm:

Seriously, is it possible that, for once, several movies deserved the awards and they choose the one they thought better, without showing a prejudice. After all, BBM go three awards too including better director and best adapted screenplay, alot more than Good Luck and Good Night, another excellent movie with a message.

And should we say that "TransAmerica" fell over prejudice and that people do not want to give an award about a movie about transexuals. (actually, if you want to talk about somebody who deserved it a lot more than Reese Witherspoon, it was Felicity Hoffman.

[shadowknows69]

123. Actually I thought

Goodnight and good luck was the most important movie in the running tonight. Not to take anything away from the struggles the other movies represented but much of our country's problems stem from a press that no longer engages in showing people hard truths that could wake people up to the urgency of other issues.

[ObaMania]

124. Brokeback should'a won?

Nahhh..

Crash addressed some pretty important issues, too!

I thought the awards were fair all around this year (finally!) 'cept for maybe best song. Yuk!

And someone gotta tell Joaquin Phoenix to snap out of it. He ain't Johnny Cash any more!

[Perky]

125. The Oscars are not given out for political statements

If thate were true

Reds would have one.

F9-11 would have been nominated.

Good Night and Good Luck would have beat out Brokeback (it is a more important issue in my mind)

The only reason Brokeback was even nominated is BECAUSE it was a "Gay" Movie. It was not however great art.

[mondo joe]

127. If that were true Crash wouldn't have won - it was all political message

and no art (other than the sort you find amongst college freshmen).

[cascadiance]

177. Good Night and Good Luck was the "political pure play" this year though...

... and it was also a very good film too. If politics were the main deciding factor, it would have won. Instead it not only didn't win best picture, it got shut out!

[Nye Bevan]

128. And in 1996 "Bound" was not even nominated!

Clearly a case of lesbian-phobia on the part of the Academy.

But to give credit where it's due, "Rocky" did win Best Picture in 1976. If it had lost, this would have demonstrated that the Academy hates Italians.

[theboss]

132. I didn't like Brokeback Mountain

I thought it was 45 minutes (at least) too long and repetitive. Pretty to look at though.

[theboss]

135. Yea...it was a bad night for gay themes

You had Dolly Parton singing a song about how Jesus loves everyone, even the transgendered.
Brokeback won three awards.
Capote won for best actor.
Someone thanked their life partner.

Homophobia was rampant.

[QC]

156. Yeah, why can't the homos be happy with what they got?

Why do they have to be so gosh darn uppity? :sarcasm:

[newportdadde]

143. Lots of great movies do not get Best Picture.

Off the top of my head:
Shawshank Redemption
Star Wars - was a phenom
LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring - although they tried to make up for it after the 3rd film of the trilogy.

Ow and Ian McKellen should have won Best Supporting Actor that year as well.

[The Witch]

147. I wish Constant Gardner had been nominated.

That was the best picture I saw this year, including Brokeback. At least Rachel Weisz got her well-deserved Oscar.

[mondo joe]

145. Although Crash was the WORST nominated film, it should be remembered

that the award frequently goes to the most blah, mediocre SAFE movie --- Gump, Titanic, Gladiator, Traffic and now Crash.

Any movie that pretends to have teeth but actually doesn't is most likely to win best picture.

Brokeback didn't lose to homophobia -- it lost to artophobia.

[Toucano]

150. Did "Brokeback" have teeth?

I never saw or felt them.

[mondo joe]

151. I'd say it did - but not political teeth.

Brokeback didn't have a political axe to grind - just a quiet story about quiet lives that packed its punch through universal themes - wasted opportunity prime among them.

[cascadiance]

173. Agreed... Was hoping Good Night and Good Luck would win something...

It was my favorite film this year too. Liked Brokeback Mountain too, and felt it deserved best picture, but I really wanted to see Good Night, and Good Luck win for something like Best Original Screenplay. It was such a nice, concise, and accurate retelling of those events surrounding Edward R. Murrow, and you could tell that was Clooney's effort of passion. Though Clooney also did an awesome job in Syriana, part of me wonders if he picked up a lot of votes there of people wanting to give him some form of recognition, knowing that Good Night and Good Luck would probably get screwed out of other awards. I figured that they would make supporting actor one of the early awards too, so that he'd be less inclined in making a more strident political message in his speech then than if this award were at the end or if he won one of the other awards at the end for Good Night and Good Luck...

[izzybeans]

146. And ignore the movie Crash for its seminal themes and the 3 awards

Brokeback Mountain actually won, rense, repeat.

[izzybeans]

148. Yes the academy is made up of a bunch of homophobes.

:sarcasm:

[QC]

155. How many openly gay actors are there in Hollywood?

What do the studios tell gay actors who consider coming out? Why do gay actors hire publicists like Pat Kingsley to keep their secret under wraps?

You can bet your ass there's plenty of homophobes in Hollywood.

[FearofFutility]

161. I'm sure there are homophobes in Hollywood

but I think it's more a matter of there being pervasive homophobia in America. Hollywood is afraid that openly gay actors starring in their movies will hurt ticket sales. The loony evangelicals are calling for a boycott of a movie because Chad Allen stars in it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/02/national/02spear.html?ex=1296536400&en=477fbcf04175ea9a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[izzybeans]

168. I said the academy. no one I've seen denies what you say is true.

Yet this debate is just too surreal. Pretty much every damn movie up for POY focused on social justice.
If you're looking for someone to blame then here is the board of governors so that you can pick one at your leisure. If they picked Brokeback would that make them racist?

This argument is asinine and divisive. That's why I posted a half hearted comment about the academy. they nominated the damn thing and gave it three awards and yet there is this OP and a long line of others talking nonesense. Take it the E entertainment boards where it belongs. The victory had already been won, and now I'm sitting here typing about a stupid statue. This is beyond ridiculous so I'm done.

http://www.oscars.org/academy/governors.html

[cboy4]

205. It's not the statue, the issue is homophobia in Hollywood

There is a huge difference and you just don't get it

[Toucano]

149. "Crash" is a superior film.

If "Brokeback" had won, the fundies would be making the same argument in reverse.

The fact of the matter is, "Brokeback" is fairly cowardly in the way it "addresses" the issue. "Crash" is not.

"Brokeback Mountain" is not the first film to deal with gay love. Sometimes I think everyone in the U.S. was born last month.

[mondo joe]

153. Brokeback is only cowardly if you want your movies to be poitical protests

As storytelling BBM is infinitely superior -- IMO, of course.

[AusTexDem]

158. Driving Miss Daisy,In The Heat of the Night.

Any other best picture winners that deal with racism?
Any that deal with Gay themes? Did Philadelphia win best pic?
Not that I think we should be taking score. I was just wondering if maybe voters in the academy felt that it was time for a movie that seriously addresses race issues to win.

[BlueEyedSon]

159. Crash was a better movie. Move on!

[BuddhaGirl]

160. I liked Brokeback very much but Crash was a much better film

I thought Crash should have won best director also.

[WinkyDink]

162. I doubt this. "Midnight Cowboy" won decades ago.

No missing the theatre-scene therein.

[HuffleClaw]

163. bullshit.

the last time hollywood bowed to rightwing political pressure was in the mccarthy era. 'brokeback' was a love story, thats it. 'crash' dealt with social issues directly.

on edit: if crash HADN'T won, the threads would be accusing the academy of RACISM istead.

[QC]

170. "'brokeback' was a love story, thats it"

Well, actually there's quite a bit more to it. It's a story about a love destroyed by the closet. The fact that so many are so uncomfortable with the film, which includes those who strive so mightily to de-gay it, proves that it does deal with a social issue that is still hard for many people to confront.

[noonwitch]

164. No it didn't. The fact the movie was made says that.

If homophobia ruled Hollywood, the movie would have never been made nor released.

[Roland99]

167. Give me a fvcking break. Everyone I know that saw Brokeback Mtn said...

it was SLOW and BORING.

It's why I have chosen not to see it.


Crash, however, was like a harder-hitting version of Grand Canyon and certainly worthy of the Best Picture Oscar.

[Malikshah]

172. Wait...some of my best friends are gay....even my partner...

Couldn't be that..

Folks-- I agree w/ ruggerson

It's the insidious bigotry. Those claiming otherwise may want to reflect on the past 60 yrs of history in the US... It's the quiet kind of bigotry that dare not speak its name.

Suck it up and deal with it--we've still got a long way to go.

Those who say otherwise are either delusional, never been a victim of said bigotry, or have had to live their lives circumscribed by said bigotry.

No excuses.

Oh, on edit-- have a lollypop-licky happy-dappy day. :)

[Dutch]

191. Disagreeing with you on the merits of a film does not make someone a bigot

Suck it up and deal with it.

[Malikshah]

193. Excuses, excuses...

Key word there is merits of the film.

One film-- rehashing issues of race and bigotry. My god, how utterly ground-breaking.

One film-- dealing with an issue of love that is on the one hand is "forbidden" and handling the ramifications of that issue, but able to transcend that to deal with universality of the problems tied to denying love. Yup-- lots of films on *that.*

Excuses, pure and simple. Folks can gussy it up as much as they wish and try and analyze their way out of it, but the song remains the same.

Have the bestest of days-- in w/ anger out with love....

[cboy4]

206. Sorry, it makes one a bigot if they can not even recognize

a homophobia problem exists in Hollywood.

It's not about the film, it's a much bigger issue that too many people here refuse to recognize

[BoneDaddy]

175. Bullshit

How bout that.... Christ not EVERYTHING that occurs is anti-gay. This kind of bullshit makes you look foolish

[QC]

181. Wow, such a compelling, thoughtful, fiercely learned argument!

I have now seen the light! How could I have been so wrong?

[BoneDaddy]

184. I simply ...

responded in the same knee-jerk, I am such a victim, irrational, way it was presented by the OP. I get so tired of when people think just because they are part of a persecuted group to think that EVERYTHING is set up to get them... give me a break.

[QC]

188. How about some understanding?

When you are part of a group that is loathed, lots of things do seem like persecution and might very well be. Why are you so dismissive of other people's experiences? Do you honestly deny that homophobia remains a serious problem, even an acceptable prejudice?

[BoneDaddy]

195. No

first of all let me say I have supported gay rights for as long as I can remember. I have family and friends who are gay, lesbian and bi-sexual. I consider myself to be bi-sexual in orientation but am in a committed heterosexual relationship and I don't stray.

If you re-read the original post, what i reacted to was the dissing of Crash and the comment that BBM didn't win because it was a "gay" movie. That is the BULLSHIT I was responding to. The freaking movie won tons of other awards in Hollywood and abroad, it got tons of positive press, the director won the Oscar and the two leads were nominated as was the movie itself. Crash probably won by a small margin, yet you and people like the OP start ranting about homophobia. That is Bullshit, once again.

Sorry you don't like what I had to say, but being part of a persecuted minority doesn't make you right all the time. What I get tired of is that this kind of bitching actually works against you and makes you look childish, whiny and actually works against the gay community.

[QC]

196. Sorry, but I haven't done any ranting here--

only said that I do think many people were uncomfortable with the movie's theme, to its ultimate detriment. It's hard to deny that, given much of the commentary on it here and elsewhere. And, of course, I also said it's easy to see why people get suspicious, given the harsh backlash against us in this country.

[BoneDaddy]

197. Understandable

Let's bury the hatchet then. The only reason I haven't seen BBM is I have no time at the moment. Looks good though.

[ruggerson]

218. Straw man

No one said "everything" is anti gay.

The OP states that the movie lost Best Picture, because of homophobia.

Period.

Don't quite know what your misplaced anger is about.

[Hosnon]

179. A bit of a stretch...just because a movie is about gay men and it loses

does not mean that it should have won and didn't or that homophobia "won."

Perhaps the best movie won? :eyes:

[ddzimm]

180. Meanwhile, in the boardrooms of Lion’s Gate and Universal...

excutives drool on an expansive oak conference room table, watching some Power Point presentation on how the Home Entertainment division will turn astounding profits this quarter due to the release of a million units of the “Academy Awards” version of each film.

[phrenzy]

183. Crash Was BAD

Ugh - "Crash??" CRASH?! That movie was about as subtle as a sledgehammer! Good lord - it was like watching an after school special. I've never seen a movie SOOO damn preachy as that. And god, the blatant and unoriginal 'heart string' moments were so gag inducing. That whole scene where the latino carpenter's kid was going to be shot by the middle eastern guy.. Just pathetic. Ok, let's show - slow motion "little cute girl running out to her daddy - then angry guy waiting to exact revenge" - People in my theatre were all "Ohhhhh noo! Ohhh noo!" - god I hate that kind of crap in movies.

Might as well have had some drunk teenagers in a pick-up tearing around the corner, and then show a kids little soccer ball bouncing in to the middle of the street in slow motion. SOOO damn played out.

And Tony Danza's "Can you act more.... Black?" - Umm yeah, I think we got the message on this one too. Jeezus didn't Spike Lee cover this territory about 100x more effectively in all of his movies in the 90s!?!

Anyway, I haven't even seen BBM but Crash was just crap IMO. The one other nominated movie I saw (Goodnight & GL) was 100x better than that nonsense.

PS - Don't diss Titanic! Yes, that movie was cliche and sappy, but it was an epic corny romance done right. In a way that hadn't been done in decades. That movie worked.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

185. Bullshit.

[onenote]

187. reality check

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2495073&mesg_id=2496305

[Turn CO Blue]

189. I don't buy it. Crash takes a hard look at racism.

Brokeback Mountain is a lovely film and I fully support the message and thought the acting was stellar -- but in all honesty the film was a little slow in parts.

Besides, Hoffman won best actor for Capote in his role as an overtly gay man. Best Actor is A VERY IMPORTANT AWARD IN AND OF ITSELF. Where was the homophobia for that award?

[QC]

190. Capote is the sort of gay character the establishment loves.

Safely stereotypical, easy to spot, sexless. Very easy to distinguish from Mr. Normal and the guys down at the club. Characters like that have been in the movies since the days of the silents, and still make up the bulk of gay characters on tv and in film today. They're very comforting.

Suggesting that an icon of manliness could be gay, on the other hand, is deeply subversive.

Besides that, Hoffman's portrayal of Capote was more impersonation than anything else. He got the mannerisms down just fine, but none of the power and complexity of Capote's character came through. Rich Little could have done about as well.

[Turn CO Blue]

210. Excuse me, but Capote isn't a "character" he is a REAL PERSON

Are you saying that Truman Capote lived his life as a stereotypical, easy to spot, sexless "character". That's ridiculous and a HUGE insult Capote as a person!

Capote was overt, which made him a hero of his time.

And the "impersonation" as you call it, of Capote by Hoffman is (by definition) Hoffman's JOB AS AN ACTOR. If you think none of the power and complexity of Capote's character came through, then I would counter that you and I saw different movies.

Edited to add: "Good Night and Good Luck" should have won for best picture. IMNSHO, it had the best acting and was the overall best movie of last year. The screenplay was excellent.

[Smarmie Doofus]

216. Correct re. Capote. It's a familiar dynamic....

the marginalized group is tolerated as long as adopts the role the larger society assigns to it. Thus Truman, like Liberace, was a favorite of pop culture while no one knew the BBM guys even existed.

[Yollam]

192. Crash was excellent - the Oscar was well-deserved.

I disagree with your contention that "homophobia won".

I saw both and would've voted for Crash - it was a more moving film to me.

[2bfree]

225. I agree.

No way was Crash the better choice for best picture. I enjoyed Crash but it wasn't as good as either Brokeback Mountain or Capote.

[StellaBlue]

230. I'm so tired of hearing this

I would've voted for Crash. Because it was a better movie.

Brokeback was great. In any other year, it probably should've won. Or Capote. Or Transamerica. Or others. This was a really decent (gasp) year for Hollywood.

Just because it was a movie about gay characters doesn't mean it was the best. Just because it didn't win doesn't mean the voters were bowing to cultural pressure from Middle America.

A lot of people, while moved by many of the films this year, thought Crash was better. Including me.

[Malikshah]

231. Suck it up and deal.

As someone who is part of the demographic that has to constantly act differently in public and look over one's shoulder....with all respect...get the sand out of your crotch and stop complaining.

[StellaBlue]

233. You suck it up and deal.

You know nothing about me.

I just thought Crash was better. I don't have to want Brokeback to win just because it has homosexual characters. I could've just written that same reply to the OPer, but that would've been RUDE and IGNORANT.

Life isn't easy. And, sometimes, you may have to meet people who don't agree with you about every little thing. Suck it up and deal.

What is WITH DU lately? The misplaced vitriol and unprovoked personal attacks are amazing.

[Malikshah]

234. I repeat-- suck it up and deal

It's called reality.

Some wish to complain about it..."I'm so tired." Do folks think Coretta ever got tired?

Did the Gloria Steinem ever get tired? Yeah. Sure they did. But I don't recall them publically trying to seek sympathy because they got tired.

BTW-- It's not DU. It's life. This isn't just about politics, or personal opinions about movies. It's about the issues involved...it's about a free society...it's about a hell of a lot more than yours OR my personal opinions about movies.

Suck it up and deal is a clarion call for a reality check.

BTW-- If I had personally attacked you -- which I wouldn't-- you would have known it--and my post would have been justifiably deleted.

I simply stated my view that folks need to wake the frig up and realize that there are issues much larger than their own personal worlds.

If one feels attacked-- then maybe think about the fact that discouse is a healthy thing.

Oh-- and have the best of days. :)

[StellaBlue]

235. um... may I point out that this is the ENTERTAINMENT forum

Like I said, you don't know me. You don't know my sexual orientation, race, background, nothing. My post was not about politics. It was just a simple observation. Just because the movie was about two gay men doesn't mean it was the best movie and we all have to just cow-tow to people like you to prove how 'liberal' we are.

I don't ever get tired of fighting the Man. But sometimes I take a short break to read opinions about movies.

[Malikshah]

236. True-- but movies can and do transcend entertainment value

They are part of the larger cultural milieu, much like religion, mass media, literature.

Are we to say that in this day and age we should create boundaries "It's only a movie" "It's not personal"

Yup-- don't know your life. Never asked to.

I do know that in using the "I'm tired" line, though, much is said. And to *that* I responded.

It's the whole "heat" and "kitchen" thing, unfortunately. As my previous post alluded to, these things transcend entertainment.

Opinions are free-- we all have them. Disagreements occur-- discourse is needed.

This is discourse.

[StellaBlue]

238. okay

I thought Crash was the more transcendent film.

[WI_DEM]

232. I actually thought "Crash" was the better film

But I enjoyed both.

[AtomicKitten]

239. me too