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NY: "They certified the machines, sent them to us, and they’re not working."

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:50 PM
Original message
NY: "They certified the machines, sent them to us, and they’re not working."


Malfunctioning machines cause ire
By Alex Costello July 24, 2008

-snip-

Nassau County is to receive 450 of the new machines, and has already received 240. There’s just one problem: of the 240, 85 percent don’t work. That’s right: 204 out of 240 of the new voting machines malfunctioned in one way or another.

-snip-

According to the Justice Department Web site, HAVA is intended to improve elections through three key means: creating a new federal agency to serve as a clearinghouse for election administration information, providing funds to states to improve election administration and replace outdated voting systems, and creating minimum standards for states to follow in several key areas of election administration.

-snip-

The government was also supposed to have created national standards for new voting machines in time for the first federal election in January of 2006....the 2005 election standards they passed were not posted in the federal register until January of 2006.

-snip-

Unfortunately, by the time the federal government fell through on their parts, New York State was already in violation of theirs, and was therefore sued into compliance by the government. According to William Biamonte, the Democratic commissioner of the Nassau County Board of Elections, New York State is currently 50th in compliance with HAVA.

-snip-

"We had major problems with paper jams, broken monitors, LCDs that weren’t working, busted wheels, and misaligned verifications that create security issues,"

-snip-

Everyone involved believes that the machines should be repaired or replaced by the time of the presidential election in November. However, if they’re not, the state could he held liable for the lack of accessible voting by the federal government. "If this is across the state, the Justice Department could then say you’re noncompliant with our consent agreement," said Biamonte. He did stress, however, that for this year, the lever voting machines would still be used, so citizens will still be able to vote in elections as they normally do.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, that's another way to STEAL an election --- non-performing machines . . .
didn't we see this in Ohio . . . ???
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hope we still have the lever machines
in November
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Seems I've seen this story before, and...
shipping damage on the early ones isn't exactly a cause for heart failure.

Ours in Suffolk County are working quite well, thankyouverymuch, and are only to be used for handicapped voting this year anyway-- the ancient lever machines won't be retired until after the presidential this year.

I was under the impression all of the counties that use lever machines were using them this November.
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. you said: "Ours in Suffolk County are working quite well, thankyouverymuch"
how do you know?
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Because Ijust went through a training session on them.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Hate to go all Cheney on you, but...
Edited on Fri Jul-25-08 10:20 AM by Wilms
So? :shrug:

Reminds me of a Board of Directors member of a major election reform group saying that you know your vote has been counted because the Opscan's counter flips numbers when you feed a ballot.

That's problematic. Actually, it's meaningless, too.

--edited to add link--
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I worked on them and talked with the county BoE...
people and everything looks OK for the trial run this election. A long time ago it was decided to use the lever machines this year and get the bugs out of the new machines before next year.

And who the fuck do you know, or are you just on Bo Lipari's mailing list?

BTW, the lever machines HAVE to be replaced, and not just because some judge said so-- they are at the end of their lives.

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Watch the expletives, pal. No one is trying to have a laugh at your expense.
We just are.

Never mind whom it is that I know. The subject now is what you DON'T know. But I realize you don't realize that you don't know Jack, let alone Bo, so I'll encourage you to read up on computerized elections. So try starting here:

http://2972595871546368566-a-1802744773732722657-s-site...


End of their lives... :rofl: You're funny!

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Lemme try this again. Have you ever seen or touched..
one of these machines? Any expertise or experience at all to make anyone take you seriously?

(Ever tried to help a handicapped person vote on a lever machine?)

Or just another anonymous "expert" on the internet?



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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I don't need you to take me seriously.
Talk about "another an anonymous "expert" on the internet". How many more rofls do you need?

Have you read a single report? Or do you prefer a state of mind consistent with being unencumbered by the facts?

Familiarity with the subject is a minimum requirement for a discussion.

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I've read lots of reports, but I've actually..
touched one. Again, have you? Or just read about them?

I've played with them, talked to people who are responsible for getting them on the floor, and read the horror stories on the internet. I know what I know, and you know what you've read.

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. What does any of that have to do with the failure rate?
And what do you consider the implications of the failure rate on those with disabilities?

And that's before discussing security for the BMD let alone the optical scan!

Since you say you've reviewed material on the subject, what makes you confident that elections can be run safely using these computers? You're in a unique class. I'll give you that much.

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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I see
:rofl:
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. So I worked with the machines and know the people...
in the county who are setting them up but you know better, eh?

Mind telling me how you know so much?
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Diebold voting machine failures strike again in Alaska
By Ryan Paul | Published: August 25, 2006 - 08:48AM CT

Plagued by hardware defects, security vulnerabilities, and rapidly diminishing credibility, voting machine manufacturer Diebold has been dealt yet another setback as Alaskan state elections are hampered by problems with the company's products. Assorted issues with voting machines in seven precincts forced some election officials to manually count and upload votes.

The Alaskan Democratic Party had anticipated the machine failures, and encouraged voters to use paper ballots in order to ensure that their votes were not discarded or incorrectly counted. Diebold voting machines have a poor track record and a colorful history. The machines were successfully hacked by computer experts hired by Leon County, Florida, and a 2003 study of leaked Diebold voting machine code conducted by security analysts revealed that the code is fundamentally flawed and vulnerable to exploitation in numerous ways. The state of California banned Diebold machines and then sued the company in 2004, asserting that the voting machine manufacturer had installed uncertified software on the machines, violating its agreement with state and calling into question the validity of vote counts conducted with the hardware.

State Democratic Party spokeswoman and former state representative Kay Brown says "there are many systematic problems with Diebold machines that have been identified in many contexts," and feels that the occurence of "technical glitches with the machines is not surprising." A vocal critic of Diebold's technology since a 2004 election in which a catastrophic hardware malfunction caused the company's machines to miscount votes and report inexplicable 200 percent voter turnout in just under half of Alaska's House districts, Brown has written several articles criticizing Diebold, including one published earlier this month in which she claims that Diebold's hardware may have been certified fraudulently, and should not be used in state elections. Brown has also attempted to draw attention to a controversial letter sent by former Diebold CEO to prominent republicans in which the conservative businessman stated that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president."

Despite a growing body of evidence of fraudulent behavior and defective products, Diebold continues to claim that its machines are secure and reliable when properly configured. Alaska's Division of Elections Director Whitney Brewster has stated that the current problems are not a result of fraudulence or tampering, and has attributed the machine failures to technological problems exclusively. Brewster feels that the vote counts are still accurate, but this latest voting machine meltdown serves as yet another glaring reminder of the risks that voting machine technology pose to the most time-honored tradition of American democracy, voting.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060825-7592.html

My common sense is telling me that these mechanical/electronic-vote/counting machines should not be used to count our votes.

Use your sense, Americans don't need to put up with this BULLSHIT we just need to use our COMMON SENSE!!

Americans JUST SAY NO, No ballots leave our neighborhoods/polling places until they are hand counted (period)



K&R......
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. That county is Republican, isn't it?
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think Nassau County is trending Democrat.
But then, what isn't these days? LOL!

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Not anymore it's not. nt
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. It was for years, and is where Al D'Amato came from...
Al was the bag man for the Margiotta Republican machine, but many years ago (how many I would have to look up) the Machine was tossed and Democrats took over.

It all had something to do with the county almost going bankrupt on top of a few select indictments.

Anyway, the Democrats put the county back on sound finances, and are still running it, but everything comes to an end eventually. Last I heard the Democrats are running scared-- Nassau doesn't actually like Democrats, just needed tham to fix things for a while.

Oh, and they keep putting Peter King back in the House every two years.





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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Shameless County
I heard about ten or fifteen years ago their Republican stupidity almost lost them a prize public recreation area and the Republicans in the area donated to Democrats because they didn't like where their own policies were leading them. Someone should write a book about Nassau County, about how it's a constant reminder that Republican policies don't work, but people still like to live by their illusions.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. .
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