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I hate to say this, but do you think some of our Democrats knew

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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:49 AM
Original message
I hate to say this, but do you think some of our Democrats knew
about the electronic vote fraud and did nothing ? I don't hear very many Democrats screaming for recounts. I'm all for recounts in Ohio and Fla and everywhere else they cheated, but come on. This shit should be on every newspaper and news channel there is and it isn't. Please God let me be wrong here. Maybe BBV and all the petitions and everything else we have tried will work. Kerry won hands down. Record turnout mean Democrats, period. If they get away with this we will never win again. They'll make it look close every time, but at the last minute the repuke's vote totals will change and they will just barely win. Please people help me stay sane here and not think our Democracy is over.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. No, we ARE smarter than they are

all we have to do is decide to sink to their level. WE have to
hack the vote next time... and every time until we can remove
the evil of BBV.
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Next time might be too late.
I want to get all the votes counted legally and win this time.
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savetheuniverse Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. might? *Will
we could seriously be four years behind schedule--this should have happened LAST TIME and I've been kicking myself ever since, b/c I KNEW that as soon as the vote was called in 2000.

But ... who could have even IMAGINED what w.-cheney was gonna do? it's BEYOND human comprehension (believe me i translate folks with names like Hitler Goebbels Goering Schmitt Krieck Rosenberg for a living) in terms of propaganda , the WC machine puts the dead nazis to shame. i've been saying it for 10 years: this time the totalitarian terror will not take the form of overt physical violence against the "populace/volk"--it will be FISCAL terror. There we have it.

anyway, the reynolds wrap heavy duty is about to melt with that thought.

I am convinced it's not malice--it's denial across the board: think about it--we are talking about pulling off major major fraud when the whole world had the impressing they were "watching" -- despite warning warning warning. what's the jingle: it's all inside....

three days ago, I was saying "do something or we're doomed", now i feel like the kids who are saying "we voted and we died" ....anyway enough doomsday rant
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RUAWHACKO Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. catastrophicsuccess
i've been kicking myself for the last 12 days repeatedly in the ass because your right... We should have been working night and day since 2000 to make sure they wouldnt steal this one too.

I know how you mean as far as the doomsday rant goes. I posted somewhere earlier that yesterday I went off on a whole tangent in my mind about the purpose of bothering to vote ever again. Quite obviously the last 2 national elections have shown that every vote WONT count, & that you can work your butt off to get someone elected and.......... it doesnt change a damn thing. This isnt a democracy.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. We can't "hack the vote"-they own the machines.
:eyes:
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savetheuniverse Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. I'd say :)
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. I've become so cynical and
suspicious that I believe this is what happened. I feel sold out and used. I'm trying to regain hope for democracy in the US but it's difficult when all I can see is a downward spiral into facsim. At least, Ashcroft is gone, but I worry about where the demon will rear his ugly head again.
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savetheuniverse Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Brecht on the bastard and the bitch
If we could learn to look instead of gawking,
Wed see the horror in the heart of farce,
If only we could act instead of talking,
We wouldnt always end up on our arse.
This was the thing that nearly had us mastered;
Dont yet rejoice in this defeat, you men!
Although the world stood up and stopped the bastard,
The bitch that bore him is in heat again.


-- Bertolt Brecht, The Resistable Rise of Arturo Ui trans. George Tabori

http://velvet_peach.tripod.com/fzpacresistablerise.html

Don't know how "uplifitng" it is but I kinda like the quote.

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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. great reference to Barbara Bush's evil brood-lol-nt
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GR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. We Saw How They Fought In 2000...That's Was Round One...
and could perhaps be explained by the "newness" of the situation and the failure to recognize the truly radical nature of the Bush administration. They don't have that excuse now...They draw their contributions from the same trough as the republicans, they think, but this one was different, the ordinary people chipped in and they ignored our wishes to soothe their cronies and not rock the boat...We need to rock the boat...big time..
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. The silence does indeed seem strange and very disturbing...
I agree- and as I said in a previous email, in addition to the election machine fraud, millions of mostly minority voters were disenfranchised - AGAIN and this was worse then in 2000. Where is Jesse Jackson? What happened to Al Sharpton? Is every Democratic "insider" simply laying low until the evidence comes out or are we the only ones (with the BBV team) actively demanding justice here?

Where are people like Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins and Rob Reiner and Norman Lear and Whoopie and Puffy Coombs-- where is eveyone who so passionately worked to get everyone out to vote for a regime change? How do we get them on board?
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savetheuniverse Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Go to crossfire, Stewart!
yeah, you know seriously, where is Maher, even Stewart is ignoring it -- i can't even watch him anymore--remember that hardball segment -- well, stewart where the f are you WE NEED YOUR HELP -- you'd think they might throw in a couple bucks (and maybe they are--but if they were donating proportionately to what we are, we'd have seen the totals go up faster, no?), but these HOLLYWOOD people really don't have anything to lose, do they? Can someone go look for the typos in their brains?

What has happened to them?

I work primarily with African American youth. They are *devastated*....vote or die, yeah we voted, now we die.

It is heart wrenching....the reynolds wrap is melting.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Susan Sarandon was on Maher saying Voter Fraud
right after the election and he kept dismissing her. There is a widespread cognitive dissonance that is going on, and it will lift as we keep getting the word out. People go into denial right after someone swipes a chunk of their soul. Either it gets buried deep in the unconscious, which is what usually happens in this culture--or, and this is where we are making history--it gets brought into the light. Our country will never be the same after this. There will be a massive waking up over this next year. I predict.
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. Susan Saradon was on Bill Maher last week
talking about voter fraud. I just rewatched it - it sounded like she is involved, or at least knows about BBV.org. Bill Maher's season is over. As far as the rest, I don't know.
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dmac Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. I am trying
to keep the faith like you, but I have to admit, I have begun to try to assimilate the reality I think we will end up with into my everyday life. I have yet to actually say it to myself, that it is over, but the lack of word, the lack of anyone picking up the leads that many people on this website have diligently strove to post, to get the word out, these things have left me feeling . . . empty.
A friend of mine said to me the other day, "maybe the journalists are working behind the scenes and are only waiting to have proof - full, unadulterated truth - before breaking the story." He believes that breaking a story like this would bring such fame and fortune that no reporter would walk away from it. And so, because of this comment and the fact that day after day, the news ignores the situation, and the few articles I have seen that do acknowledge the possibility of fraud, dismiss it more than discuss it, and make the believers of this possibility into a bunch of kooks or crybabies . . .

I have to admit, my resolve is crumbling and the only reason I haven't let go of it completely is because I still have not yet figured out how to accept the inevitable.

I will try to hang in there but it gets more difficult by the day - and if in fact, the media is being controlled, and our elected officials are also being controlled, you too will eventually have to let go. 4 years of saying he didn't win, he stole again will only make people laugh at you - but more importantly, I think it would eat you alive - just as it is doing to me. But good luck to you.
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savetheuniverse Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. it's because it is so unfathomable that the denial is going on
but I'll tell ya how i ended up out here on DU, maybe that'll help. I'm mixed race--native american-german-jewish (don't fuck with me, i got genocide written all over my genealogy; i live in an almost 100% black neighborhood :)--3/11, after my cat Malcolm (yeah he's black) pissed all over the floor, i drove up to the reservation. I just had to go there. Saturday night and sunday night -- all over the BLUE state in the Democratic Mandate of the United States of America--the Northern lights were suddenly putting on the single most spectacular display i have ever seen (uh--had ever seen until i came in here and saw this incredible thing going down)...as i was driving south, tears streaming down my face--i never imagined that a sign saying chicago would make me weep--i heard bev harris talking on democracy now (that whole trip was a trip: went out and bought all the old springsteen, deliberately turned it up behind the w-cheney bumpers: gotta headon collision smashin in my guts man, i'm caught in a crossfire that i don't understand--anyway i managed to get through 3 states w/o getting shot or arrested for the car full of contraband ie springsteen, dylan, stevens)...then i made the connect: bev harris (as i now know, etal) + northern lights. one last shot we got. so i'm just gonna sit here watchin these northern lights and praying to MY god that the fucking TIMES gets out there or Maher or Stewart where the hell is MOORE......i'll tell you one thing, if we get this out there, my first campaign is gonna be gettin the Crew here the Nobel....

does anyone know if Bev etal have tried to get through to Obama? but, see that's the thing, the political figures, i don't think they can or even SHOULD get involved here yet. it's the press, the media.....are the bushies stungunning these guys or what? anyway one of these days i do have to return to the real world. like work.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I have to say.....
that is one damned good post. In a strange sort of way.

Welcome to DU!

:toast:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. Simple answer, YES
I believe there have been sufficient threats to gain their silence. It's my opinion however.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. Did Democrat Leadership Know?
Hell yes they knew and did little. One bill in congress which they knew would go nowhere. They are sucking off the same Corp. tit the Rethugs are. Face it! We need to get our party back. Suggestion, read Howard Deans book. He explains what we need to do in plain language.
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fugue Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
9. I still think we should have hacked the vote in an obvious way
Have Homer Simpson or Elvis Presley win. The purpose would've been to show that the system was flawed, not to steal the election. It would not have done any harm other than showing the election was worthless; calling it a crime would be like saying a diagnostic test causes the disease it detects.

The moderator at Smirking Chimp threatened to throw me off for sedition. One of the reasons I spend so little time over there now.

I think we should do this next time. How can they argue you've harmed the country if all you do is show them the voting system is prone to hacking and haven't used it to help your candidate?
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Supormom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. President Presley
That's an excellent suggestion!
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Again. They own the machines. How do you propose we
"hack" the vote?
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Anybody's machines can be hacked by someone else. How do you
think you get viruses so easily? Hackers can find a way to get in other people's machines. Owning a machine doesn't mean that your software is "unhackable".
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. This was posted on another thread yesterday:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"I have posted detailed, step by step instructions, with screenshots, of how to hack into Diebold's vote tabulation software, change 11,000 votes, then log out and view the new results. Complete with a section analyzing the audit logs and how to delete them.

See it at www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. The GEMS central tabulator is wide open.....
easiest way to hack the vote.
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savetheuniverse Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. Fuck the vote, go for the press
(no i didn't mean that)

but I tell you EIRnews is a work of absolute shining brilliant light (my husband doesn't get that and if the story doesn't break soon, we may).

https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRNews

Pollitzer Prize Worthy
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wlubin Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am believing that the dems are hanging low on purpose because if
they come out then the nazis will smack them down. this is perfect to have grass roots dig it up because then the nazis have no recourse. If they try to smack it down ppl will ask why are you afraid of nader, or why are you afraid of the green party?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. In other words, dems rolled over and played dead.
How encouraging!
:eyes:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. No.
eom
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KnowerOfLogic Donating Member (841 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. I don't know what's going on, but the dem leadership is worthless.
Every single congressional democratic incumbant should be challenged in the primaries and defeated by a real democrat who will stand up for us and America.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. Until the Electoral College meets in mid-December, speculation is moot
It ain't over 'til it's over.
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