Election Reform News for Saturday, 5.20.06

[rumpel]

Election Reform, Fraud, & Related News

All members welcome and encouraged to participate.

Please post Election Reform, Fraud, & Related News on this thread.


The Unisyn vision is to bring the security, operational excellence, and real-time transaction processing expertise from the lottery industry to improve the process by which votes are collected and tabulated. Building on its core staff's unique experience in management of mission-critical applications, electro-mechanical design, software, and applied systems technology, Unisyn has added voting industry experts and teamed with world-class partners to provide a reliable, secure method by which every vote is cast accurately and counted correctly.
source: http://www.ilts.com/unisyn.htm

1. Post stories and announcements you find on the web.

2. Post stories using the "Election Fraud and Reform News Sources" listed here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

3. Re-post stories and announcements you find on DU, providing a link to the original thread with thanks to the Original Poster, too.

4. Start a discussion thread by re-posting a story you see on this thread.

SECRETARY OF STATE
APPROVAL OF USE OF
ELECTIONS SYSTEMS AND SOFTWARE
INKAVOTE PLUS PRECINCT BALLOT COUNTER VOTING
SYSTEM, VERSION 2.1

I, BRUCE McPHERSON, Secretary of State of the State of California, do hereby
certify that:

1. Elections Systems and Software, Inc. (ES&S) of Omaha, Nebraska ("Vendor"),
has requested approval for use in California elections of its InkaVote Plus Precinct
Ballot Counter Voting System, version 2.1, comprised of the InkaVote Plus
Precinct Ballot Counter with ADA unit, firmware version 1.10 and the Unisyn
Election Management System, version 1.1, which includes Ballot Generation,
version 1.1, Election Converter, version 1.1, Election Loader, version 1 .l, Vote
Converter, version 1.1, and Vote Tabulation, version 1.1, submitted on or about
January 6th, 2006.


source: http://www.inkavote.com/inkavote_plus.htm

[rumpel]

1. PA: Preston's election victory up in air

County review finds voter discrepancies

Saturday, May 20, 2006

By James O'Toole, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A continuing review of Tuesday's election results has turned up numerous discrepancies in vote tallies in the 24th Legislative District, placing a question mark over the initial report that Rep. Joseph Preston won a narrow victory over his Democratic challenger, Ed Gainey.

Unofficial results from the district had shown the veteran incumbent with a 96-vote advantage over Mr. Gainey for the nomination. A third candidate, William Anderson, was far behind. But a look back at the returns suggested that many votes in the district may not have been counted in that first, unofficial tally.

"A lot of people went out to vote and their votes weren't counted, and that's a concern,'' Mr. Gainey said yesterday, at the end of hours of double-checking the figures.

Under the scrutiny of lawyers for both Mr. Preston and Mr. Gainey, elections officials spent the day yesterday in a precinct-by-precinct review of vote tallies. By the end of the day they had looked at roughly two-thirds of the voting district. In the vast majority of precincts, there was at least some discrepancy between the list of voters who signed the rolls and the numbers of ballots reported cast in that district.

The review so far hasn't yielded any proof that Mr. Preston was not, in fact, the winner. The parties were attempting to reconcile the total numbers of voters and votes tallied, so the review has not yielded evidence of whether or not the margin may change -- in either candidate's favor. But it has established problems with the initial totals reported in Allegheny County's first experience with its new electronic voting system, adopted in response to the federal Help America Vote Act.

snip
Most votes Tuesday were cast on the iVotronic touch-screen machines supplied by Election Systems & Software. That system was chosen by the county a month ago after its first choice failed to be certified by the state. In addition to the touch-screen system, the county's polling places made optically scanned paper ballots available to voters. Initial reports were that roughly 6,000 optically scanned ballots were cast, with about half of those absentee ballots.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06140/691795-179.stm

[rumpel]

2. SC: Focus put on duties of secretary of state

The State.com
Posted on Sat, May. 20, 2006

By JIM DuPLESSIS
[email protected]
Secretary of State Mark Hammond wants a bigger role for his office. Challenger Bill McKown wants the office pared down.

It’s a debate that has simmered for years. Friday night it got much of the half-hour of public television exposure the candidates had as part of a series of debates arranged by ETV and The State newspaper.

The secretary of state’s main responsibility is accepting and maintaining the records of businesses operating in South Carolina.

The secretary of state also has a role in regulating nonprofits and public solicitations by charities, a role McKown said would be more ably handed by the S.C. attorney general.

Hammond, 42, wants the secretary of state to oversee elections, a role he said is part of the job of 38 of his peers in other states.

But McKown, a 49-year-old Surfside Beach businessman, said it would needlessly add to costs. “It’s going to fall to taxpayers to pay for it.”

The state constitution requires that the secretary of state be elected in a statewide election for a four-year term.

Gov. Mark Sanford has supported making the secretary of state an appointee of the governor. Other Republicans and Democrats have supported the idea in the past.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/14625897.htm

[rumpel]

3. PA: Tatu, Bobbouine await final tally in GOP race for 118th

The Citizen's Voice
BY ELIZABETH SKRAPITS STAFF WRITER 05/20/2006

WILKES-BARRE — First he wasn’t. Then he was. Now he might not be.

he unofficial count of Tuesday’s primary election returns had Art Bobbouine of Pittston beating Maureen Tatu of Chestnuthill Township by 20 votes for the Republican nomination for state representative in the 118th District.

However, after the Luzerne County Bureau of Elections tallied optical scan ballots for the official count, Bobbouine was 18 votes behind the Monroe County candidate. A problem with the way an optical scan ballot reader was set might be a factor in the incorrect count.

Bobbouine sat anxiously waiting as Luzerne County Director of Elections Leonard Piazza III and election workers fed stacks of paper ballots through the reader at the courthouse Friday night.

“I have 49 less votes than Tuesday,” Bobbouine said, studying a sheet fresh from the printer. “That’s a big swing.”

Asked if he would petition for a recount, Bobbouine replied, “Most definitely.”

Bobbouine received 655 votes in Luzerne County and 201 votes in Monroe County on election night. Friday’s official count reduced him to 606 votes in Luzerne County.

Tatu received 149 votes in Luzerne County and 687 in Monroe County in the original count. The new count gave her 138 Luzerne County votes.

snip
ES&S failed to return the counter on an optical scan reader to zero before the ballots were put into them Tuesday night, so extra votes were added to the unofficial count, Piazza said.

ES&S spokesman Ken Fields said all the machines were working properly — the error was strictly human.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16668147&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=6

[stellanoir]

4. OMG !!!

NPR's weekend edition amazingly did a fairly even handed report on the EVM's this morning.

I am on a currently compromised computer so I can't post a link.

They had some apologist wanker from Diebold espousing the alleged security of the machines. Our presumed collective techie hero Avi Ruben was given more time to refute and shoot bazooka sized holes in the wanker's false claims.

I'm still sorta shocked this issue was finally addressed by them.

WooHoo. Maybe the tide is turning after all. I hope I hope.

[rumpel]

6. Yey! Would be nice to get transcript! n/t

[stellanoir]

20. yup it sure would

with my limited 'puter capabilities, here's the best I can do.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5419884

best

[rumpel]

5. LA: HISTORIC VOTE

Winner will guide the city through Post-Katrina landscape
Saturday, May 20, 2006

By Brian Thevenot
Staff writer
With early and absentee voting running higher for the runoff than the primary, and with voting rights advocates making a final get-out-the-vote push, turnout for New Orleans' mayoral race today could surpass that of the primary, as thousands are expected to drive in for the historic election nearly nine months after Hurricane Katrina wasted most of the city.

Voters will face ballots that also include four City Council seats, assessors in two districts and clerk of Criminal District Court. But the main draw is the mayor's race, in which candidates Ray Nagin and Mitch Landrieu have run fairly polite, tepid campaigns by Louisiana standards and remain in a dead heat, providing added motivation to go to the polls. Most political analysts have said a few thousand votes or fewer could determine who will drive the city's recovery.

Today's weather is expected to help turnout: a high of 90 degrees with clear skies, mild humidity, a decent breeze and no chance of rain, according to the National Weather Service. Polls open at 6 a.m. and close at 8 p.m.

"There's a lot of interest in this," said Greg Rigamer, a state-contracted demographer whose turnout prediction in the primary came within 1,000 votes of the 108,000 ultimately cast. He said runoff turnout should be at least that high, and maybe higher by as much as 5,000 votes.

"Usually runoff turnout is less than the primary," he said, although that has not always held true in New Orleans mayoral elections of the past three decades. "But these are extraordinary times."

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-5/114810800338920.xml

[rumpel]

7. SC: James Island to return to polls in June

BY NADINE PARKS
The Post and Courier

James Island residents will head back to the polls June 20 to decide whether to incorporate as a town.

They'll be voting on paper ballots, said John Dunbar, a member of a three-commissioner panel of residents the state appointed to help set the new election in motion. Charleston County's electronic voting machines won't be available because the James Island election is too close to the June 13 primary elections, Dunbar said.

The panel about two weeks ago named Karen Bennett, Donna Parrish and Kathy Bethea as election managers, Dunbar said. He said four polling places will be selected at James Island fire stations.

"I'll be glad when it's done. I think we will be victorious," Dunbar said. "The town of James Island deserves to win this election."

The town has been incorporated twice, but Charleston sued to have it dissolved on constitutional grounds. The state Legislature last year passed a new law that cleared the way for a new incorporation effort. Charleston Mayor Joe Riley has said the new law is also unconstitutional, and the city will fight the most recent attempt as well.

http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=88879§ion=localnews

[rumpel]

8. NM: Early voting begins today

The New Mexican

By Julie Ann Grimm | The New Mexican
May 20, 2006

Voters will be able to cast ballots until June 3

Five polling places will open today to let voters who have already made up their minds cast ballots in the primary election.

About a third of Santa Fe County's voters in the 2004 general election took advantage of the early option, which prompted County Clerk Valerie Espinoza to add a new site this year, the Abedon Lopez Senior Center in Santa Cruz.

"(She) just felt like the convenience of early voting should be offered to the voters up in the southern part of Española that are Santa Fe County voters," said Denise Lamb, chief of the county's Elections Bureau. If enough people use the location for the primary, Lamb said, the county will open it again for the general election in November.

Early voters will cast paper ballots that will be read by optical scanners, a different voting mechanism than the electronic machines used for the general election. Lamb said paper ballots are used during the primary because it would be too complex to program the machines with the 173 ballot combinations required in the county. Voters cast ballots in different races depending on where they live.

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/43932.html

[rumpel]

9. VA: Appalachia council seeks removal of indicted mayor

Saturday May 20, 2006

APPALACHIA, Va. (AP) - The Town Council has voted to seek removal of the mayor, who is under indictment on charges of election fraud and corruption.

Thursday night's vote was taken in the absence of Mayor Ben Cooper, who couldn't attend because he's under house arrest.

About 50 people attended the council meeting to support the sentiment voiced by Rick Bowman, a former councilman who was defeated in an election two years ago that Cooper is accused of rigging.

“As long as Ben's here, we're going to have this black cloud hanging over us,” Bowman said after the meeting. “It looks bad for the town.”

The process for removing Cooper from office calls for collecting signatures from at least 10 percent of the votes in the May 2004 election and then filing a petition in Wise County Circuit Court. A judge will then decide whether he displayed enough negligence, incompetence or misuse of his office to warrant removal from office.

snip
The 63-year-old mayor, a councilman and 12 others are charged in a scheme to buy votes with beer and cigarettes. Authorities are also looking into whether illegal gambling houses in Appalachia paid off some current and former town council members, special prosecutor Tim McAfee has said.

:)

http://www.news-expressky.com/articles/2006/05/20/news/02appalachia.txt

[rumpel]

10. AZ: Voting-machine suit filed too late, lawyers argue (5/19/06)

azcentral.com

Paul Davenport
Associated Press
May. 19, 2006 12:00 AM

PHOENIX - Government lawyers argued Thursday that a lawsuit, which challenges most Arizona counties' plans to acquire more than 2,000 special voting machines for the disabled, was filed too late to affect what equipment is in polling places for the September primary election.

The lawsuit seeks a court order barring use of touch-screen machines made by Diebold Election Systems and Sequoia Voting Systems.

The state is using federal money to acquire the voting machines for 13 counties.

Machines made by a third company, Elections Systems and Software and chosen by Cochise and Graham counties, do comply with a federal mandate for voting access by the disabled.

Other challenges

The lawsuit filed May 10 by Voter Action, a California-based group that is also mounting similar challenges in several other states, contends that the Diebold and Sequoia machines don't satisfy voting rights laws. According to the lawsuit, the machines are prone to errors, subject to hacking and don't adequately serve voters with certain disabilities.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0519votingmachines0519.html

[rumpel]

11. TX: Women found not guilty in San Juan voting case

The Monitor

May 20,2006
James Osborne
Monitor Staff Writer

EDINBURG — An Hidalgo County jury found two San Juan women not guilty on voter fraud charges Friday morning.
Maria Louisa Rodriguez and her daughter of the same name had both voted twice in the May 2005 San Juan city election, but their defense attorney argued they were not mentally competent at the time of the incident.
“They’re not all there, and these politiqueras took advantage of them,” said attorney Jesse Contreras.
“These ladies suffer from a mental illness as we speak, and back then on May 17.”
The mother and daughter were taken to vote on Election Day after already casting ballots during the early voting period by Cindy Rodriguez, the wife of San Juan City Commissioner Bobby Rodriguez, and Vicki Loredo, the wife of former mayor and PSJA school district Assistant Superintendent Robert Loredo.
Both women denied any knowledge that the mother and daughter had already voted, and neither was charged following an investigation by the district attorney’s office.
The wives’ identities were disclosed in a memo last year written by former city secretary Vicki Ramirez, who took the mother and daughter’s ballots curbside, a service offered to the physically disabled. The City Commission fired Ramirez as city secretary this past February, but she still works as an office administrator at City Hall.

http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=13290&Section=Local

[rumpel]

12. MS: Williams sentenced in voter fraud case

The Natchez Democrat

Published: May 20, 2006 - 12:35:15 am CDT


By John Gunn
The Natchez Democrat
NATCHEZ — Henrietta Williams showed no signs of remorse or surprise when she was sentenced Friday to serve 18 months in jail.

Williams’ full sentence for a March 9 conviction in the Ferriday voter fraud case is five years hard labor. All but the 18 months were suspended.

Williams — part of a case against five Ferriday residents revolving around the 2004 mayoral elections — was found guilty of tampering with the absentee ballot of Maude Lee Williams.

She will also serve five years on probation after serving her time, along with 32 hours of community service.

http://www.natchezdemocrat.com/articles/2006/05/20/news/news22.txt

[rumpel]

13. IL: Were addicts given $5 for school votes?

The Chicago Sun-Times

May 20, 2006

BY ROSALIND ROSSI Education Reporter

A group of "addicts, users and alcoholics" living at a South Loop flophouse were offered $5 each in April to walk over to a nearby school and vote in its local school council election, one of the residents said on videotape Friday.

"Everybody started putting on their clothes and going out the door" after a man went floor-to-floor at the New Ritz Hotel with the vote-buying offer, Renee Day said by videotape during a hearing contesting the election of two LSC candidates.

The vote-buying allegations are a first in LSC elections here, said Malon Edwards, a Chicago Public Schools spokesman.

In fact, Edwards said, CPS lawyers aren't even sure that LSC vote-buying is a crime because no mention of it is made in the Illinois school code.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-bribe20.html

[rumpel]

14. Doggone hackers upset voting in ugliest canine competition :)

San Jose Mercury News

Posted on Sat, May. 20, 2006

By LINDA GOLDSTON
San Jose Mercury News
Poor Pee Wee Martini.

The 2-year-old Chinese Crested/Japanese Chin mix was leading in the online World's Ugliest Dog Contest, a canine version of the People's Choice Awards for the funny-looking critters.

Then computer hackers broke into the Sonoma-Marin (Calif.) Fair Web site, erased 40,000 votes for Pee Wee and 30,000 from an Italian greyhound named Victoria.

That put Lucille Bald, a purebred Chinese Crested from Florida, in the lead until fair officials noticed the vote tampering.

"Everything was going really well, we were getting a huge amount of hits," Tawny Tesconi, chief executive of the Sonoma-Marin Fair, said this week. "Then votes started changing."

The popular World's Ugliest Dog Contest has been drawing entries from around the country to Petaluma, Calif., for 17 years. An online competition was added this year for fun. To win the actual title, Pee Wee and the others must parade their stuff at the fairgrounds in Petaluma.

Previously, the winner has appeared on CNN, Last Call With Carson Daly and the CBS Early Show.

To make sure every dog gets "a fair shake," the online voting for the popular winner will start over May 22, Tesconi said.

A panel of five judges will select the official winner June 23.

"We've been putting in some firewalls or whatever they're called to prevent the vote stealing from happening again," Tesconi said. "We want to make sure everybody has a fair shake."

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/14628239.htm

[rumpel]

15. Think Progress: From the blog scene English only.....

Doesn’t HAVA require that voting machines have the capability to operate in other languages?
Comment by Peter Christian — May 19, 2006 @ 4:36 pm

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/19/snow-contradicts-gonzales/

[rumpel]

16. NY: Voting machine failed Board of Elections finds

The Record

By: Shawn Charniga, The Record
05/20/2006

TROY - One of two Sequoia lever-type voting machines stationed at School 18 for Tuesday's budget vote and Board of Education runoff broke after two votes were cast for candidate Ilene Clinton, and all subsequent votes for her went unrecorded, the Rensselaer County Board of Elections discovered Friday.
Clinton, a newcomer who ended the night with 567 votes, was the second-highest vote-getter on the other School 18 machine.
The Board of Education voted 5-4 Wednesday to certify the election, but allowed a check of the machines. At least some Clinton supporters are calling for a new election, at least in the affected district, but others, including the incumbent school board president who eked out a narrow victory, say it's time to move on.
The machines are between 40 and 50 years old and are owned by the city and rented by the school district. Elections Commissioner Larry Bugbee, one of those who discovered the machine was broken, attributes the breakdown to old age.
When not in use, the 235 machines are stored in the city's Department of Public Works garage, which Bugbee describes as a "huge warehouse-type building and probably not prime conditions, not like being stored in your house."
Prior to the vote all machines were found to be functional and received their annual checkup about a week ago, Bugbee said. However, after the second Clinton vote was cast the component simply gave up the ghost, a breakdown that could change the school board's makeup radically if the vote is successfully challenged.

http://www.troyrecord.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16667919&BRD=1170&PAG=461&dept_id=7021&rfi=6

[rumpel]

17. CA: Calaveras County, Erroneous info mailed to voters (5/19/06)

Published: May 19, 2006


By SUNNY LOCKWOOD


Many sample ballot pamphlets sent Monday to Calaveras County voters for the June 6 primary election contain major errors.

While the sample ballots themselves are correct, some accompanying pamphlets describing measures and propositions, candidates and polling locations have incorrect information, said County Clerk Karen Varni.

For example, Varni said a voter's pamphlet may refer to a supervisorial race in another voting district or could list the wrong polling place.

Varni said she discovered the errors after a voter called her office Wednesday to say that his pamphlet included the District 3 supervisorial candidates even though he lives in District 1.

The misinformation is due to a computer error at the printer.

Sequoia Election Printing of Porterville, Tulare County, has been printing Calaveras County's voter sample ballot pamphlets for more than 21 years.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=20488

[rumpel]

18. PA: Vote count not done yet

Pocono Record

Write-in tally resumes Monday as 118th outcome may change
Eric Mark
Pocono Record Writer
May 20, 2006

STROUDSBURG — It will take at least one day more before the primary day vote count in Monroe County is complete.

While official figures are not yet available, county workers said Friday that voter turnout for Tuesday's primary election was low, as expected.

The county election board met Friday to count and certify vote totals from the primary.

The election board did not finish counting write-in votes before the end of business on Friday. The board will reconvene Monday morning and hopes to finish that day, said election board chairman Robert Nothstein, a Monroe County commissioner.

Nothstein is chairing the election board this year because Monroe County Commissioner Chairwoman Donna Asure is running for state representative from the 189th District. Asure recused herself and was replaced by Tom Hill, the county's chief assessor. County Commissioner Suzanne McCool also serves on the election board, which in most years consists of the three county commissioners.

The election board — along with Monroe County Voter Registration director Sara May-Silfee, workers from the voter registration office and other county employees — spent all day Friday counting votes from Monroe's 50 polling districts and comparing those figures to the unofficial totals listed on the county's Web site.

Election board members also counted absentee votes and started to tally write-in votes and military ballots sent by active duty personnel.

No real problems or surprises turned up on Friday, Nothstein said.

"There were no major discrepancies," he said. "For the first time around with the new electronic machines it went pretty well."

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060520/NEWS/605200329/-1/NEWS

[rumpel]

19. AR: Alleged Glitch Discovered in New Voting Machines

CATV Channel 7

Saturday May 20, 2006 1:01pm Posted By: Angela Rachels

Little Rock, AR - The Pulaski County prosecutor says tall voters using the new, electronic touch-screen voting machines in Arkansas could end up casting votes for candidates they didn't mean to vote for.

Prosecutor Larry Jegley says the machines' computer screen skews a voter's view of the ballot. Jegley and county election commissioner Kent Walker say it's a problem that could affect any voter over six feet tall.

But a spokesman for Election Systems and Software -- the company that provided the machines to the state under a 15 million dollar contract -- says the machines don't have that problem.

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0506/329465.html

[autorank]

21. K&R Another outstanding News thread by Rumpel for the people!!!

[Stevepol]

22. Autorank, I have some questions for you about auditing.

Where in the US is auditing required?

If there is such a state or municipality or county, etc., how is the audit conducted?

Has anybody ever used high school students to count votes?

If you don't know off the top of your head the answers to the questions, do you have an idea where I'd go about finding out? Should I look at VotersUnite web site or one of the other fair voting web sites?

[autorank]

25. Sorry for the delay, burried plus the neighborhood rave;)

State audit requirement. Here are a couple of resources. The first link describes state audit requirements. It's different everywhere. .25% was the trigger in FL in 2000, for example. Every state is different.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/article.php?id=5816

High school students, not that I know of but now a bad idea, if you avoid the weekend;)
In England, they use bank tellers to count the vote...in auditoriums whre everybody can come
and watch...and they still elected the war criminal Tony Blair...go figure.

But Ohio wanted to use college students .. "Delta Gammas" to be specific. I did NOT make this up;)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/autorank/70

[Kurovski]

23. Kick. Thanks go to ER's "rumpel of the daily".

:thumbsup:

[livvy]

24. Great ERD! Thanks!

I got a good chuckle out of the "ugliest dog" voting scam. Being a part-time member of the dog show world, it cracked me up...yep...there's amazing politics involved even in that silly, little world...enough that it often drives dog fanciers away.
Thanks again for filling in, and nice job! I owe you one.

[Wilms]

26. GuvWurld: Inherent Uncertainty

Inherent Uncertainty

May 21, 2006

by GuvWurld

So where does this Newsweek article take us? Levy is trying to comment that we should be concerned but he doesn't quite grasp the problem. The closest he gets is at the very end:

"In other words, it's unlikely that every voter using an electronic voting device in 2006 will know for sure that his or her vote will be reflected in the actual totals."

It is not a matter of being unlikely, and it is not an open question, as the article's title suggests. Unverifiable voting, by definition, produces inconclusive outcomes. We are being asked to have blind trust which will continue to result in a lack of unanimous acceptance of election results. There is no rational basis for confidence in the results reported from elections in America today.

I wouldn't expect Newsweek to offer such paradigm-shattering analysis. Instead, while raising questions and feeding the existing and growing doubt, the effect is to further reinforce the inherent uncertainty which leaves ordinary Americans divided about what constitutes reality. Rather than stating unequivocally that we cannot know for sure the true outcome of an election held under these conditions, Newsweek appears to be giving ground coveted by those seeking to wake up the masses to America's election problems. This classic technique is called a limited hangout.

snip

http://guvwurld.blogspot.com/2006/05/inherent-uncertainty.html


Discussion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x429208