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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:12 PM
Original message
FYI - OHIO reporting problems already
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 01:21 PM by meganmonkey
and so early in the day :puke:

Thought the Election reform crowd would be interested...


http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051...

BREAKING NEWS

Lucas County voting begins with problems at the polls

FROM THE TOLEDO BLADE (www.toledoblade.com )
November 8, 2005 11:26 a.m.

Voting so far on new touch-screen machines has not been quite as seamless as local board of elections officials had hoped.

Lucas County Board of Elections director Jill Kelly said some voters left the precincts this morning without voting because the machines were not up and running. She urged people who had problems to return and cast their ballots.

...snip...

Ms. Kelly said that several of the county’s 2,000 trained poll workers had to be talked through some problems during the morning. Poll workers at the Sylvania Senior Center could not find the machine’s memory cards and at the Toledo Board of Education building the voting machines could not be found. Those issues were resolved, Ms. Kelly said. And those coming to vote where machines were not yet up and running were given provisional ballots.

She denied reports that voters in some precincts were given the wrong ballot issues to consider. She added that as of about 9 a.m., the calls from the 495 precincts died down significantly.

Thanks to TheBorealAvenger in LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1909405
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just Scanned Your Post... Do The Machines Have Paper Ballots???
Here in Florida, Sarasota County... no paper ballots!!!! Katherine Harris got herself back in office!! They WOULD NOT allow PAPER BALLOTS for last year's election.

IMO Harris DID NOT win as I saw some disturbing vote dumping at about 11:00 PM on Nov. 2nd!!

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I recall that "we" won that fight and 2005 acquistions had paper copies
...as a requirement in the purchasing specification.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Okay... Good.... Hope It MEANS Something!
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Won't help the folks that left without voting
Yes, I know that does not lift your spirits, sorry.
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. In a manner of speaking, yes.
They're using DREs with voter verified paper records printed on a roll. The voters get to see and check them before they vote and the paper roll can technically be recounted, though they're not made for hand counting. (That doesn't make it impossible, but it's difficult)
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Was this in the affluent suburbs or poor inner cities I wonder
as if I don't know the answer already.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. they are even losing in Franklin county (Columbus) where the city is
overwhelmingly Dem and there was a major GOTV campaign. Folks, we were blackwelled!
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. DailyKos link
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm Sorry I Checked It Out!!
YUK.... Puullleeeezzzze, NOT AGAIN!!

It's just ANOTHER "spin" ISSUE!!

I beginning to understanding the meaning of the word HATE!

I refrain from it's usage at all costs, but GEEEEZ, it's gettin' to be "hard work!"
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. swingstateproject link
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. OMG. I hope they are reporting this to 1-866-OUR-VOTE
Poll workers at the Sylvania Senior Center could not find the machine’s memory cards and at the Toledo Board of Education building the voting machines could not be found.

WHO HAS HAD POSSESSION OF THESE CARDS AND MACHINES IN THE MEANWHILE?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why woudl Blackwell allow these 4 initiative to pass when it would mean
the end of his political career? the results are ~ 30/70. Hmmh...there were not real hot button drawers for the repukes, so I wonder how this could have happened.

WAKE UP F*%#ING DEMS-READ THE F-ING GAO REPORT, LISTEN TO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SCREAMING ABOUT! It's business as usual for Blackwell!

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/Results/RaceSummary.aspx
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Oh, god those results are depressing
:(

I know how hard you've been working on this stuff, I am so sorry :hug:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. the top guys running RON did not believe the '04 election, they chuckled
at my suggestion that the machines were the # 1 issue and that we needed HCPB. I have offered evidence to these guys but I truly believe they thought I was a "conspiracy theorist". I received an email last night from someone still very connected to the Ohio Dem Party sounding very optimistic. My response was the same I posted here-Why would Blackwell allow these to pass-it would mean the end of his political career, the change of control of parties, and then most likely the just consequences of what has transpired.

I am now a progressive not a Dem, I resigned directly working for them (RON was not a Dem project) after that lame excuse for a DNC investigation of the '04 election. The GAO report is correct-OUR VOTE IS TAINTED! Hope this is their WAKE-UP CALL!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think the thieves are going to have a problem.
So far, they've done an adequate job of covering their felonious asses.

But, it looks like the Thugs are losing tonight.

The places they steal will be hanging right out there, for everyone to see.

Does that make sense?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. The Box Score (Poll vs. Actual)
Issue #1:
Poll: 53% YES, 27% NO, 20% Don't Know
Actual: 53.7% YES, 46.3% NO

Issue #2:
Poll: 59% YES, 33% NO, 9% Don't Know
Actual: 35.7% YES, 64.3% NO

Issue #3:
Poll: 61% YES, 25% NO, 14% Don't Know
Actual: 32% YES, 68% NO

Issue #4:
Poll: 31% YES, 45% NO, 25% Don't Know
Actual: 29% YES, 71% NO

Issue #5:
Poll: 41% YES, 43% NO, 16% Don't Know
Actual: 28.8% YES, 71.2% NO


Poll Link:
http://www.dispatch.com/election.php?story=dispatch/2005/11/06/20051106-A4-03.html

Actual Link:
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/Results/RaceSummary.aspx

Funny how the poll was accurate in Issue#1 and TOTALLY off for the election reform issues 2 thru 5, huh?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Polls don't work in OH
Must be magnetism or something. :eyes:
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. A special kind of magnetism that only effects Blackwell's interests...
Funny, that.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. Please kind people in Blue states-prove the machines are not trustworthy
in your courts. We can't win in the home state of Diebold w Kenny boy at the helm. Use the GAO Report and a fair court and show the world our elections have been privatized to repuke cronies. We really are nice people!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I have a really bad feeling about CA tonight.
Three of the Grope's issues look to be passing.

I have no facts but it's just not possible. I don't care how red you are, you don't vote against nurses.

We may have to light some fires out here, mod mom. Because the effen maggots are at CA's throat as far as I can tell.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. redistricting not passing in OHIO?
do I have it backwards? I read on CNN that the initiative make redistricting the responibility of a bipartisan commission is FAILING? why on earth would that fail? dare I ask?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Gary, Look at the polling and then look at the results. That said,
the incompetent Dems who run the state were against redistricting because they were so sure that public sentiment would carry them into office, they wanted to handle re-districting to benefit to the Dems. Guess they didn't believe un the power of Diebold/Triad/ blackwell.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. It's not that simple.
The amendment was a flawed way to accomplish the goal of bipartisan redistricting - no reflection on the intent of the authors, just a reflection of the reality of trying to write what should be statutes into the constitution. See my earlier post.

I don't know when the polls were taken, but I do know a larger number of (normally responsible) voters than usual who did not seriously review the amendments until the last 24 hours before the election - and others who did not even think about them until they were in the voting booth. The ones I know who decided in the ballot booth voted no on all four. The ones I know who read the amendments in the last 24 hours also voted no on all four, including some who were leaning in favor of at least some of the amendments in principle just 24 hours before.

Even though I read the amendments in September, and had been struggling since then with whether to support the principle even though I have major reservations about how the principle is being implemented, I did not make my final decision on two of the issues until I was in the booth. My vote ultimately would have matched any pre-election inquiry, but one of the issues was still a toss-up until the moment I actually punched the stylus through the card.

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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Partly because
It was not the broad concept of bipartisan redistricting that was being voted on, it was the entire detailed structure. Even the summary of the amendment took two full ballot pages on the old punch card machines. If voters were motivated enough to read the actual amendment, the amendment was five single spaced 8.5x11 pages of mind numbing details. http://www.reformohionow.org/downloads/ron_amendments.pdf (Start reading on page 9 and continue to partway through page 14.)

So - some folks (like me) who support the principle voted against it based on the details.

First, it is virtually impossible to write an amendment of that length correctly the first time. The best laid plans of mice and men often need tweaking during the process of implementation. Quite a few Ohio voters are discovering that even a two sentence amendment (marriage discrimination law) can be so poorly drafted that it has very severe unintended (at least from the average voter's perspective) consequences. That amendment was quickly latched onto by batterers who are not married to their victims as a way to escape the consequences of their actions. Fixing errors that are discovered during implementation requires amending the constitution.

Aside from my theoretical concern that it was unlikely such a complicated amendment was drafted perfectly the first time, based on a relatively quick reading I could easily see a number of unintended consequences. Here are a couple that caught my attention:

* The further entrenchment of two party dominance. Potential redistricting plans are evaluated on the basis of creating competitive districts. Competitiveness of districts is based solely on the top two parties on a state level. All third party votes are completely ignored. If there is potential district that favors a third party (say 32% Republican, 40% Green, 28% Democratic), the potential district is classified as 53% Republican and 47% Democratic for purposes of determining competitiveness - even though it is clearly Green (not an eligible party based on statewide votes) or left-leaning (combining the Green and Democratic votes). Green votes (or any third party votes) are tossed for purposes of determining competitiveness until their party becomes one of the top two parties in the state - and then one of the previous top two parties is tossed.

* The possibility that the Board would be required to be unbalanced. The parties of of the judges, for purpose of choosing which judges make the appointments to the redistricting committee, are determined at the time of his/her nomination for judge. For purposes of making the appointment, the judge MUST appoint someone of his/her own party affiliation. No mention of when the judge's party affiliation for purposes of selecting committee members is determined, and the tense in that portion of the amendment is present tense. What happens if a judge is nominated by the Democratic party, changes parties before s/he makes the appointments to the committee so his or her present affiliation is different that the affiliation at nomination? At best, it is unclear whether the judge must make appointments to the party of his/her former affiliation (which would maintain bipartisanship - but might make for an interesting selection process since there was probably some reason for the change and his/her selections may no longer be in the best interests of his/her former party). At worst, the judge must make appointments based on his/her current affiliation (requiring an unbalanced board). But - no one ever changes parties after being elected, right? (...Jeffords).

That's just a couple of the potential glitches I noted on a first read through, without going back and doing a detailed analysis.

Great concept, but very flawed execution, so I voted against it. Were it a statute I would have supported it - the details belong in a statute. If a statute it is flawed, or there are unintended consequences it is easy to fix. A short amendment embodying the principle of bipartisan redistricting based on competitiveness of districts (preferably not limited to two parties) would also have had my complete support.
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