Is John Kerry OFFICIALLY a wimp?

[Nightjock]

I feel terrible even asking that. I voted for him in the primary. I was one of those "he has the best chance to win" people.

But as I thought I got to know him- I even bought the "Going Upriver" dvd--I began to LOVE him and BELIEVE in him religously.I donated to Kerry-Edwards and wore my shirt and pin proudly. I hate bumperstickers but I even put one on my car!

But now it is like my entire world has been turned upside down!!!!

Ralph Nader, who I despised, is now a hero to me for standing up for voters rights. Meanwhile John Kerry's subordinates hint (or at least that is what I read here) that he says s"top talking about fraud"..and my heart breaks to pieces....

I want to believe he "has our backs" but as each day passes his silence is deafening. When do I officially give up on him?

So many people here are more informed than me and I would like an opinion.

[GDoyle]

1. No

The guy is a war hero. Now shut up.

GDoyle

[Name removed]

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[Shoeempress]

2. Volunteered for a long time on JK's campaign, Have great

respect for the man and think he would be a great Pres. But he is just a man, so don't put too much stock in these guys, even the ones you support.

[freetobegay]

3. Nader is still working for the repukes

You can take that to the bank! Disinformation is their best asset.

[Straight Shooter]

4. Variation on a theme, thread number 2,647 since the election

:argh:

[txindy]

8. There's that, too.

;)

But, to be fair, I had a bad day yesterday, myself, and needed some cheering up. These &#$%& allergies don't help, either. **sigh**

[txindy]

5. Way too early to give up

The first round of vote counting still hasn't been completed in Ohio. There's really nothing to protest, yet. The people here on DU are finding lots of amazing info., plus many more know people who are discovering/analyzing more info.. Nader is taking care of things in NH. Bev Harris is working on FOIA requests in key states.

It's early days, yet. :hi:

[DoBotherMe]

6. I too fell for Kerry and have been going through

some form of mourning and missing him. But I found this yesterday on Yahoo and it took the pain away. I hope I don't get flamed, but I don't think he's going away anytime soon, and he will continue to speak "truth to power."



One week after his presidential defeat, Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), D-Mass., center, is surrounded by members of the media as he returns to Capital Hill to meet with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Minority Whip Harry Reid, D-Nev., on Tuesday, Nov. 9, 2004, in Washington. The three were expected to discuss a range of issues from Social Security (news - web sites) to stem-cell research. Reid is expected to succeed Sen. Tom Daschle, who lost his South Dakota seat, as the Democratic leader in the Senate. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

[BeatleBoot]

7. Nope. Kerry's a Stud.

He put it all on the line knowing it was going to go one way or the other.

He'll stay very relevant, too. A part of the solution.

Bush can have Ralph. They go hand in hand.

[liberalpragmatist]

9. They're investigating irregularities but it's not going to change outcome

It's mathematically impossible for Kerry to win. This isn't a 537-vote difference. This is a 140,000 vote difference in Ohio. That's a huge gap to overcome just through irregularities.

Provisional ballots and overseas ballots still have to be counted. I think it'll narrow the margin slightly, but keep in mind that of those overseas ballots, many are going to come from active-duty military who will vote overwhelmingly for Bush. As for irregularities? Clearly, there are some. E-voting clearly needs paper trails. But despite the dangers, the irregularities do not add up to enough votes for Kerry to overcome the difference.

Plenty of voting rights groups and attorneys, the Democratic Party in Ohio and in the country, and Kerry-Edwards subordinates are keeping track of the irregularities. The votes WILL be counted.

But please do not think it would have changed the outcome. There is no proof that the outcome can be changed. And if there's a miracle and the outcome does change then Kerry's concession is not legally binding.

[mary195149]

10. John Kerry is a very honorable man.

I truly believe at this time, the democratic party is investigating the election. When they get some answers we will then see John Kerry come forward. If John Kerry was out talking about fraudulent election, the repubs would love that. They would take away the focus on the votes and start their name calling about Kerry being a sore loser. I think he did the right thing. They cannot attack him, for he has conceded. This was a brilliant move on John Kerry.

[eataTREE]

11. John Kerry isn't a wimp. He just lost the election.

He lost the popular vote by 3.5 million votes. He lost Ohio by 135,000. He knows that no recount is going to make up that big of a deficit. Plus, having lost the popular vote by a signifigant (though not huge) margin, he knows he lacks the moral authority to complain about the electoral vote results.

People have been complaining about electoral fraud, but there isn't any real compelling evidence that this took place on a large scale.

Exit polls were wrong -- polls are not always accurate.
Democrats in Florida voted Republican -- they've been doing that for a long time now.
More votes than voters in Ohio -- Not if you count absentee ballots (see the Salon article here)

Basically, the only real reason for thinking that the election was stolen is that a proven incompetent was re-elected. But even that is nothing new. Reagan thrashed Mondale, and he was EVEN DUMBER than Bush.

Kerry has nothing to gain and everything to lose by contesting the election results. He knows that even if a recount were to occur, it wouldn't put him over the top. It would just make him look whingey and paranoid, and cost the Democratic Party much-needed credibility.

John Kerry had your back, but more people voted for the other guy. There isn't anything he can do about that.

[crispini]

22. "Exit polls aren't always accurate."

That's nonsense. There are plenty of threads on this board that talk about exit polls being extremely accurate. Here's one article:

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10385

I'm not saying it's been stolen or it hasn't been stolen, I'm saying, the jury still's out on this bad boy.

[Carolab]

23. It's nice to know

That you are the world's foremost authority on the subject.

The truth is YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.

We're trying to GET TO THE TRUTH.

[eataTREE]

25. Speaking of whingey and paranoid...

...'nuff said.

[cali]

12. No, as another poster noted

he's a war hero. Has it ever ocurred to you that we lost, that even if there was fraud it wasn't enough to change the outcome of the election. I believe that if fraud resulted in bush being put into power again, Kerry would be fighting relentlessly.

[mzmolly]

13. No Nightjock, I just don't think he believes the election was stolen.

He has access to information that we don't and perhaps their internals predicted similar results?

(Puts on flame proof suit) The fraud thing might not have occured when all is said and done.

Afterall, the counties with the "issues" have mainly opti-scan machines and in Florida anyone can conduct a re-count under the "Sunshine Law" so it will be done eventually and we'll know the truth. Also, I understand in Ohio they mainly use punch cards?

It's possible Kerry already knows "the truth" and we're jumping to conclusions?

Either way, I'm glad to see investigations being conducted by whomever because we need to get to the bottom of irregularities regardless. As I;ve said before it's "voter confidence stupid."

let's adjust to the fact that Kerry likely feels like he lost it fair and square.

We should allow him to have an opinion that differs from our own. It doesn't mean we can't press him for a re-count once the "count" has been conducted, just to clear things up, however.

:hug:

[IAMREALITY]

14. Please Don't Lose Faith In John

I ask that from all of us. I firmly believe the way John has handled this all so far is justified, and can list a page long editorial on why, but frankly I'm too tired after too long a day at work to do so. Rather then doing so I will simply just render my 'well thought out' opinion that he has been honorable, and simply can't just rush to the front lines as we want him to right now.

I do want to leave a quick message that I'm sure will be debated, as to why whether we believe as I do that his actions (or inactions) are justified or not that we still need to fully support him and not eat him alive as some have started doing on here... We are all fighting to save democracy. Fighting to expose the fraud to save democracy. But my question is "Is Democracy so worthy to fight for if in the end, when we get what we want, we still have a President we don't support and have faith in?" I think that is very important. If we turn on Kerry to such an extent then we might as well all move to Canada. We might've succeeded in saving the electoral process, but only to tear apart the President no matter who it ends up being. Just my initial opinion...

Quick Off Topic. My wife just called, said "have you seen this bumper sticker yet? It says 'Somewhere in Texas a Village is missing its IDIOT" Too funny....

[movonne]

15. Watch out for Nader ....we just have to ride this thing out and see

how it all shakes out...

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. I suspect Nader was your hero before the election too

And now that there's a prospect of another 4 years of Bush, you're almost giddy with admiration for him and his master plan - give the Bushies enough rope to hand themselves. The problem with that plan is that it is essentially a plan to give up and try to clean up afterwards, which leaves thousands more people dead, mmillions more starving, thousands here unemployed, the list goes on and on and on.

Naders cure is worse than the diseas.... no wait, it isn't really, it IS the disease, and his plan is to make sure we get doubly infected.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And by the way, Kerry is a hero, no election can change that. He risked his life in the armed forces, which is a lot more than we can say for Mr. Nader or the rest of his cohorts in the GOP.

[Name removed]

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[HEAVYHEART]

19. Really?

So you don't believe that it was fraud?

[Name removed]

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[glitch]

20. December 13 is the day the EC posts their votes - if legal challenges

haven't surfaced by then, IMO it means he's not fighting.
That's as long as I withhold judgment on his present appearance of rollover.
If he spends the next 2 years successfully getting the unverifiable vote machines removed from the election process I'll consider him for national office again.
If he gets the BFEE indicted and convicted for fraud I'll happily work for his campaign.
Otherwise, he's just another Tom Daschle to me.

[molly]

21. At least he's not whining