The media is KILLING us, folks :(

[garybeck]

I've been trying to make inroads in my local Democratic party. I've been trying to talk to them about the problems with the election.

I finally got the head of our region to listen. He checked out my website (solarbus) and read some articles and got back to me, expressing openness to further discussion.

His one question was, that it seemed like all the articles are on unknown websites. He asked me to show him some articles or reference some reporting on the "regular" media, this are his words:

"What I could not find was any reliable news source (by which I have a fairly common and somewhat broad definition I think: major newspaper, magazine, respected columnist, NPR...even a respected politician) which comes close to corroborating your thesis that American Democracy is dead, that the last election was stolen. Maybe I missed it -- send me what you consider the best, most credible citations, and I will read them.

But I haven't seen it yet."

So I replied with a long explanation of what is going on with the media. I talked about the recent conference in St. Louis and Bill Moyers speech. I talked about Conyers conference on the Media. I mentioned the huge story about the downing street memo and how the media has been silent on it. I mentioned how the Republicans have taken over PBS and NPR by appointing a new CEO and replacing the board of directors. I gave him lots of links to read.

Then I gave him a few links to some mainstream articles about the election. I told him about Lampley. I told him about Koehler. I showed him the article where Teresa Kerry said she doubts the election results. I eagerly awaited his reply.

Then reality hit.

The media is killing us folks. That's what it really comes down to. Read what he said:

"Gary – I feared that your argument might boil down to this fundamental distrust of the mainstream news media. I can’t go there with you. I have worked for such entities (the boston globe) and have many friends who work for other respected publications. These institutions are far from perfect and not devoid of the corporate manipulation you fear… Your sense, however, that they are all now “nothing more than a voice of those in power” goes way, way, way too far. There are hundreds if not thousands of reporters around the country who would love nothing more than to make their careers – Woodward Bernstein style -- exposing the Bush theivery of the last couple elections.

When one of them does, maybe I will be able to join you. Until then I don’t think we are going to see this issue the same way."

This is our problem. People still believe the media, even Democrats. I think this is at least part of the reason even the elected officials are not doing anything about the election. They watch the news too. This is depressing.

I'm not giving up on this no matter what. I'm going to continue to try to poke holes in the media blockade through the use of the internet and other tools we have. But this last dose of reality is a bummer. Is nothing ever going to happen until Tom Brokaw says so?

[eleny]

1. What does he think of the work of Rep. John Conyers?

Does he actually think that a member of the House of Representatives going back to the Nixon administration is going way, way, way too far, too?

[garybeck]

3. evidently he was willing to ignore Conyers because it's not

on the news. Not even NPR.

I told him all about Conyers, the memo, his conference on the media, and that Conyers said the election was the biggest crime in the history of the nation (Lampley said it first and then supposedly Conyers agreed).

He ignored everything I said and just commented that none of it was on the news.

[eleny]

10. Maybe it's time to run for his position

Nothing like being as serious as a heart attack!

[ailsagirl]

58. But that's the whole point!! It's NOT in the MSM news!!

I don't understand how, after all the proof you showed him, he could dismiss it. We need people who are aware of the problem. I'm stunned.

[frictionlessO]

62. Why not bring up that very fact to him Gary? Point out his own

backtracking... First he said he'd even except a politician and then he completely blew that off when presented with such. There are columnists who have said things that at least open up Ohio/blackwellian up to criticism. Also other members of Congress and Senator Boxer.

The Downing street Memo/Minutes?

Illustrate Gannongate backdropped under Clinton admin instead of Bush.

Iraq war media bias and non coverage of the antiwar views (which have proven to have been completely true vs the admin/media propaganda.

The list is nearly endless on the noncoverage of the media, however there are articles out there for your purposes and which he said he would consider under his own definition of trustworthy sources...

NGU Gary!

Peace

[Tigress DEM]

69. I'm afraid he sounds like a DINO even if he's a good guy.

New York Times does articles, usually buried.

Washington Post too.

CNN ---- INTERNATIONAL not CNN USA reports facts - or did report facts at one time. (Recently it's Co Founder Reese Schonfeld says on National TV that it is the media's job to LIE during war time)

Ask HIM to explain to you and his constituents how he is able to trust the mainstream media that ignores even cursory review of what is out there in the International News for everyone to see.

Also, I will be writing to my local STRIB and telling them that politicians won't believe US until the News reports the facts to back us up.

[mod mom]

73. Gary, I suggest buying him"Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in

Ohio, Status Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff" (for a mere $ 10.95, it provides a wealth of evidence.

I will say that I have my doubts that the Democratic hierarchy really want this to come out. I don't understand why Howard Dean has been reluctant to discuss it-I mean it did come from the Democratic members of the House Judiciary!

[Tigress DEM]

76. The thing is, the evidence is there, but because of electoral law...

our chance to get things properly done in regards to 2004 is gone. That is why Ken Blackwell sat on the evidence that would prove fraud.

It's hard to resurrect interest once the "prime time" aspect of a story is passed.

However, looking ahead to 2006 and 2008 we should support the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 and I don't know maybe someone in each state should get a copy of the court records in Ohio. Make copies for anyone who wants them and simply ask people to decide based on the facts. Not to "whine" about fixing the old election results, though I did plenty of that at one time, but simply to make sure we get honest elections going forward. God, how can anyone object to that? (But they do. Major objection is to felons getting their right to vote back.)

http://www.friendsofhillary.com/speeches/20050217.php

<clip>
Statement of Senator Clinton on the Count Every Vote Act of 2005
February 17, 2005

First, the Count Every Vote Act mandates that each and every voter be able to verify their vote through a voter verifiable paper record. It also requires that the paper record be the official record for purposes of recounting. At least one machine per precinct must provide for paper, audio, and pictorial verification and must be accessible to language minorities who cannot read and the disabled. The Act requires a mandatory recount of voter verified paper records in 2% of all polling places or precincts in each state if there is a challenge. To help states meet these requirements, the Act authorizes $500 million.

Secondly, we want improved security measures for electronic voting machines and the legislation contains significant security requirements for voting equipment and voting equipment manufactures. It also bans the use of undisclosed software and wireless communications devices in voting systems

Third, we believe there should be a holiday for voting. To facilitate the ability of many voters to cast their vote and to symbolize the importance and power of the right to vote, this act creates a public federal holiday on Election Day, the first Tuesday in November.

Next, to encourage people to vote we want to allow them to vote at times convenient for them and to avoid long lines on election day, so we require early voting in all states. We also want to be sure that provisional ballots are counted statewide for federal elections. This allows ballots that are cast in the wrong precinct, or even the wrong county, by a registered valid voter to be counted for all eligible races, so long as that voter is registered in the state.

[Carolab]

103. Why not direct him to the C-Span site for the media reform forum?

So he can see firsthand the problems with the "media".

[Clark2008]

2. Want me to email him?

The Boston Globe is one of the most progressive papers in the country - MOST, outside of the LA papers ARE NOT!

I was a journalist for years. It took me until last year - a full four years after I'd left the profession - to see what it had become. And I'm active. Your Dem chair isn't facing facts.

And, give him Conyers' website in the meantime. He's a respected politician.

[oxbow]

61. Good idea

If we can get just one Democratic leader to realize the crisis we're facing, that could start a domino effect of sorts. You should definitely talk to this guy. He'll beleive you over Conyers because you are part of the establishment media

[EFerrari]

4. Gary, I know this is frustrating and disappointing but this thought:

So what? If this gent doesn't see it, he's behind the curve, because even the corporate media is beginning to adjust itself.

He doesn't agree with you? Fine. Find some other point of agreement but know that you are right, of course. Or else why would someone like John Conyers have to go to all this trouble to shine a light?

He's wrong. And hopefully, he will rethink his position.

You don't really need him if he's not 100% on your side.

"Democracy is dead" is too big and abstract for most people to understand. How can you make this more real and more concrete? Or, that's what I would ask, if you asked me :)

[Helga Scow Stern]

7. That is a very healthy attitude, sfexpat2000.

I suspect that some of these Dem district leaders will be the hardest to convince.

[EFerrari]

15. Sure. Because, don't they at bottom have the most to lose the

most immediately?

I'm more optimistic today than I've been in a really, really long time.

[ailsagirl]

59. Then we need new Dem district leaders!! n/t

[garybeck]

9. I know, as I said, I'm going to continue, regardless

but I think my experience with him is a bad sign, and we all should be aware of how bad the problem is.

[EFerrari]

14. Yessir. And notice, we always get the feedback just a tad late.

Imho, the media debacle has shifted in the last couple of weeks -- may have been shifting subtly since the inaugural.

The press didn't miss that our capital was put under martial law just to swear the thief in.

Take heart. Looks like we do know what we're up against and it looks like gravity is on our side :)

/spillin'

[smartvoter]

22. The trouble is to take that stand they have to ignore their own party's

work and investigation.

It's excuse finding, and the sign of a weak mind and weaker spine.

Go around him. Get all the data together you can get and give it to everyone else.

[applegrove]

35. I agree. Not everyone thinks the election was stolen illegally. Sorry

but I haven't seen a smoking gun anywhere. I'm sure there were intention of the laws broken. Happens on both sides in many elections in the West. Those events should be prosecuted or reformed on a state by state basis. I'm all for electoral reform. But the election was stolen from us by the way they attack the strengths of our leaders, tribalize the groups they need to vote for them, and then go gay - 'like the cherry on the top'.

Rove has done this again and again and again. That is what I am fighting. What we know about.

[Patchuli]

50. With all due respect,

I do agree with what you say about the attacks of repubs on dems and Rove's formulae, but how do you explain the inconsistency of exit polls with electronic voting box areas vs. paper ballot areas which matched exit polls? How can you explain away the opinions of mathematicians and statistical anaylsts that say this could not have happened without election tampering? I do think there is too much evidence of dirty tricks and games by repubs to steal elections and we ignore that at our own PERIL of it happening again and again!

[Tigress DEM]

75. I think there is too much emphasis on statistics... look at the facts

The facts alone of what actually happened in Ohio show that those 20 electoral votes were stolen. I realize the statistics show an astronimically high probability of wide spread voter fraud, but we don't have all the evidence. We do have evidence in Ohio and it's being treated as myth. I understand healthy skeptism. It sounds like we have good ol' boys in charge and until recently, no one saw any burning crosses on the lawns... (NC Churches that don't punish gays) but there are facts being entered into court of law - 3 days of testimony by thousands disenfranchied in Ohio. If you only look at one state, here is the fraud.

No one can dispute the fact of Ken Blackwell's conflict of interest in co-chairing a re-election campaign for President while at the same time holding the highest position in the State for overseeing that election fairly. He does not deny actions that disenfranchised voters, he just says it was some little problems here or there, but what the facts show is that all of those little problems, especially ones that were enacted on his orders fouled up the election.


Published: Wednesday, May 18, 2005
Bylined to: Michael Keefer
Michael Keefer: The Strange Death of American Democracy: Endgame in Ohio
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=34681

Like the unsavoury Katherine Harris, who was Florida Secretary of State in 2000 and simultaneously state Chair of the Florida Bush-Cheney campaign, Kenneth Blackwell occupied a strategic double position as Co-Chair of the Ohio Bush-Cheney campaign and Secretary of State in what analysts correctly anticipated would be the key swing state of the 2004 election. From this position, a growing body of evidence shows, he was able to oversee a partisan and racist pre-election purging of the electoral rolls,<10> a clearly partisan reduction of the number of voting precincts in counties won by Gore in 2000 (a move that helped suppress the 2004 Democratic turnout),<11> a partisan and racist misallocation of voting machines (which effectively disenfranchised tens of thousands of African-American voters),<12> a partisan and racist system of polling-place challenges (which together with electoral roll purges obliged many scores of thousands of African-Americans to vote with 'second-class-citizen' provisional ballots),<13> and a fraudulent pre-programming of touch-screen voting machines that produced a systematic 'flipping' of Democratic votes into Bush's tally or the trash can.<14>

In a nation that enforced its own laws, the misallocation of voting machines--a clear violation of the equal protection provisions of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution--would alone have sufficed to invalidate the Ohio election.

Having overseen one of the more flagrantly corrupt elections in recent American history, Blackwell and his Republican machine proceeded to "take care of the counting"--which involved a partisan and racist dismissal of scores of thousands of African-American ballots as "spoiled,"<15> a flagrantly illegal "lock-down" of the vote-tallying process in Warren County on the transparently false grounds of a supposed terrorist threat,<16> massive electronic vote-tabulation fraud in this and other south-western Ohio counties,<17> and marginally less flagrant but evidently systematic forms of 'ghost-voting' and vote theft elsewhere in the state.<18>


....


He also did his utmost to block public access to election data, ordering the Boards of Election in all eighty-eight Ohio counties to prevent public inspection of poll books until after certification of the vote, which he delayed until December 6th.<20> On December 10th, his Election Administrator, Pat Wolfe, intervened to prevent analysis of poll-book data by ordering, on Blackwell's authority, a renewed "lock-down" of voting records in Greene County and the entire state. (According to Ohio Revised Code Title XXXV Elections, Sec. 3503.26, such records are to be open to the public; Ohio Revised Code Sec. 3599.42 explicitly declares that any violation of Title XXXV "constitutes a prima facie case of election fraud....")<21>

Bizarrely enough, on the night following the statement to election observers in Greene County that all voter records in the State of Ohio were "locked down" and "not considered public records," the Greene County offices were left unlocked: when the same election observers returned at 10:15 on the morning of Saturday, December 11th, they found the building open, a light on in the office (which had not been on when it was closed on the evening of the 10th), and all of the poll books and voting machines unsecured.<22>

[applegrove]

99. I'm not a fan of stats. Vegas oddsmakers are wrong in horse races.

The election was a horse race - not a Keno Machine. I'm not going to try and change your mind about that. But as I am a member of this site - I do think i should post my opinion at times. I can't just simply skip over all the links I don't agree with. That would not be discussion eh?

Sorry we disagree on this issue. But we are on the same side. The finks must go.:hi: I just hope they do not manage to split us apart on this issue. I mean - how ridiculous is it to call your voting machine 'diebold'. Sounds like 'diabolical'. I think they repukes are getting something out of the whole lack of distrust the lack of paper trails cause. I think love to let issues that serve them well fester. I'll give you that.

[Peace Patriot]

107. "I'm not a fan of stats." --applegrove

That's obvious.

[applegrove]

111. Actually I've studied stats and I know what it takes to get an exacting

trend. There is much too much in the way of 'noise' during an election to say "this happened". That is what I mean about stats.

[sandnsea]

110. Wrong wrong wrong

We aren't talking about horse race betting. We're talking about the race being 4/5 over, with all the data about the speed, track and horses' histories; and having the entire race called wrong. The horse in last place was really in the middle, the horse in front wasn't. No horse ended up being anywhere near the place they had been in, just seconds before the race ended. This is more than pre-horse race odds making.

Still, I agree that I would prefer to hone in on the facts we have than statistics because statistics are too easily manipulated. The other problem is when I read of a factural error in the election, it usually amounts to a small amount of voters, which is no way to fix an election. In other cases, the problem was fixed. I haven't seen the replicated problems that would prove a stolen election. But I sure see the potential.

[applegrove]

112. That is what I mean. An election is a horse race. Handicappers are

often wrong during horse races. So this was a rogue electoral result as predictions go. It was also incredibly close. Not as if Kerry could not have won. He just did't put enough lengths between him and Bush to make it anything other than unpredictable at the end.

[sandnsea]

113. Not after the horse race is over for chrissake

The exit polls are NOT like handicapping a horse race because they occur DURING the race, NOT before. Thunk, thunk, put your thinking cap on.

[Tigress DEM]

72. About 1,000 pages of evidence, entered into Ohio Court says otherwise.

Just because it isn't reported, doesn't mean it isn't real. The abuses in Ohio have been legally documented as having occurred. However Ken Blackwell sat hard on the evidence until after the electoral vote took place and still tried to sanction the attourneys for calling him to task.

He was the co-chair of Bush's re-election campaign and Secretary of State in charge of running a fair election. He did not. If you look at the facts, there is no disputing the fraud in Ohio, but the facts are not available to the public at large because the media is holding back.

Blackwell refused to show up to trial, when a DEM in California did nearly the same thing, he sent a representative with the information, the DEM was taken down.

Did you wait 4-10 hours to vote and then have the door shut in your face when you finally got there? No. So obviously no vote fraud exists. Wake up.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1166
Representative Conyers and others file amicus brief in Ohio Supreme Court
by Dena Graziano
February 17, 2005

Today, Congressman John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee, will be filing an amicus brief in the Ohio Supreme Court with the support of Senator Russ Feingold and 17 other members of the House of Representatives recommending that the Court not sanction the attorneys who brought Ohio election contest in Moss v. Bush (no.04- 2088). Mr. Conyers offered the following statement:

"The attorneys in this case had reason to believe that the election results did not reflect the will of the electorate. In good faith, they brought a case based not only on statistical probability but the depositions and affidavits of computer experts, statisticians, and election volunteers. In only a couple months, these attorneys have amassed over 900 pages of evidence.

"While we take no opinion on the underlying case, we firmly support the right of citizens to challenge elections results in court when they have a good faith basis to do so. Truly, Secretary Blackwell's attempt to sanction these attorneys is meant to send a message to anyone who dare challenge his questionable election administration. For our democracy to work properly, we can't allow this sort of intimidation by state officials.”

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1155
Congresswoman Tubbs Jones Outraged at Blackwell's Failure to Appear During House Administration Hearing
by Office of Rep. Tubbs Jones
February 12, 2005

Washington, D.C. – Today, Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones spoke before the House Administration Committee during their hearing on the Implementation of the Help America Vote Act following the 2004 election.

"I am thoroughly disappointed that the Secretary of State from my home state of Ohio, Ken Blackwell, chose not to testify today before the House Administration Committee," stated Rep. Tubbs Jones. "Just as he created tremendous confusion among voters in Cuyahoga County and across the state of Ohio during this past election by issuing bizarre directives and playing partisan politics, his failure to testify before this committee today shows that he is not committed to improving our election system.

"I would have thought that he would have seen this hearing as an opportunity to further examine the problems that occurred during this past election and work to develop a plan of action for addressing them. The Secretaries of State from key battleground States such as Iowa, New Mexico and Indiana felt it important enough to attend this hearing today. Ken Blackwell owed it the people of Ohio and of this country to be at this hearing today. They deserve the truth!"

Congresswoman Tubbs Jones recently introduced legislation with Rep. John Conyers in introducing the Voting Opportunity and Technology Enhancement Rights Act, or the VOTER Act of 2005 which seeks to combat the tremendous voting irregularities that plagued both the 2000 and 2004 elections.


http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1138

Election 2004

Ohio Attorney-General's attack on election protection attorneys draws mountain of documentation on state's stolen election, including new study on exit polls
Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman
February 3, 2005

Stiff legal sanctions sought by Ohio's Republican Attorney General James Petro against four attorneys who have questioned the results of the 2004 presidential balloting here has produced an unintended consequence -- a massive counter-filing that has put on the official record a mountain of contentions by those who argue that election was stolen.

In filings that include well over 1,000 pages of critical documentation, attorneys Robert Fitrakis, Susan Truitt, Peter Peckarsky and Cliff Arnebeck have counter-attacked. Their defense motions include renewed assertions that widespread irregularities threw the true outcome of the November vote count into serious doubt. That assertion has now been lent important backing by a major academic study on the exit polls that showed John Kerry winning the November vote count.

Petro's suit is widely viewed as an attempt at revenge and intimidation against the grassroots movement that led to the first Congressional challenge to a state's Electoral College delegation since 1876. The attorney general's action was officially requested by Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, who administered the Ohio presidential balloting while serving as co-chair of the state's Bush-Cheney campaign. Petro and Blackwell have labeled as "frivolous" the election challenge filing. Their demand for sanctions will be reviewed by the Republican justice of the Ohio Supreme Court.

[mod mom]

74. this is why we need to link NOE strongly with the election! 5 of 7 Supreme

(OH) Court justices have had to recuse themselves in the coingate scandal. if we can get strong evidence against NOE interferring with the election, these supremem court justices will HAVE to recuse themselves in future election litigation (of course, many should have in the first place). If the public sees that they recused themselves from Coingate/Noe then they will be forced to do it again. THIS IS OUR WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY!

[Tigress DEM]

78. Fine, Noe has to be held accountable, but what about Blackwell?

[KaliTracy]

100. A quote here says Blackwell has received contributions from Noe

“The three Republicans trying to replace Mr. Taft in next year’s election - Auditor Betty Montgomery, Attorney General Jim Petro and Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell - have all received thousands of dollars from Mr. Noe and his wife, Bernadette, in recent years, according to state campaign records. All three have opened audits or investigations into Mr. Noe’s coin funds or campaign contributions. And on Friday, Mr. Blackwell called for the federal Justice Department to take control of the investigations, suggesting that his rivals, Mr. Petro and Ms. Montgomery, are too close to Mr. Noe to investigate him.”


got that late last night with today's date -- they updated a lot today -- lot more to see http://ohiohonestelections.net/

[mod mom]

108. Noe has strong ties to Blackwell. He formerly sat on the Lucas

county BOE board from 1993-2003 (2003, the year diebold came into Lucas County) and the his wife Bernadette Restivo Noe was chairperson of the Lucas County BOE during the debacle of an election that forced Blackwell to have to investigate Lucas County BOE activities that surrounded the election including: ALLOWING REPUBLICAN VOLUNTEERS UNSUPERVISED ACCESS TO UNSECURED BALLOTS.

[Tigress DEM]

77. So he can't get into "digging up the past" - OK, honest future elections

Tell him to look at the Ohio evidence and at least see that there is enough proof that what happened - even if accidentally, innocently perpretrated - can't happen again and if people like him don't stand up for honest elections then they aren't worthy of support. Because the only ones who don't believe in the necessity of making sure elections are honest is someone who gains to profit from them being otherwise or is being blackmailed to be silent... or just a plain political coward.



Count Every Vote Act 2005 Stuck in Committee

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-450

Committee on Rules and Administration

Member Name DC Phone DC FAX Email

Minority Members (Democrats)

Christopher J. Dodd (D-CT) 202-224-2823 202-224-1083 http://dodd.senate.gov/webmail/form-opinion.html
Robert C. Byrd (D-WV) 202-224-3954 202-228-0002 http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_email.html
Daniel K. Inouye (D-HI) 202-224-3934 202-224-6747 [email protected]
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) 202-224-3841 202-228-3954 http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html
Charles Schumer (D-NY) 202-224-6542 202-228-3027 http://schumer.senate.gov/webform.html
Mark Dayton (D-MN) 202-224-3244 202-228-2186 http://dayton.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm
Richard J. Durbin (D-IL) 202-224-2152 202-228-0400 http://durbin.senate.gov/sitepages/contact.cfm
Ben Nelson (D-NE) 202-224-6551 202-228-0012 http://bennelson.senate.gov/email.html

Majority Members (Republicans)

Trent Lott (R-MS) 202-224-6253 202-224-2262 http://lott.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Email
Ted Stevens (R-AK) 202-224-3004 202-224-2354 http://stevens.senate.gov/contact_form.cfm
Mitch McConnell (R-KY) 202-224-2541 202-224-2499 http://mcconnell.senate.gov/contact_form.cfm
Thad Cochran (R-MS) 202-224-5054 202-224-9450 http://cochran.senate.gov/contact.htm
Rick Santorum (R-PA) 202-224-6324 202-228-0604 http://santorum.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactInformation.ContactForm&CFID=8958625&CFTOKEN=50103763
Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) 202-224-5922 202-224-0776 http://hutchison.senate.gov/e-mail.htm
William H. Frist (R-TN) 202-224-3344 202-228-1264 http://frist.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutSenatorFrist.ContactForm
Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) 202-224-3521 202-224-0103 http://chambliss.senate.gov/Contact/default.cfm?pagemode=1
Robert F. Bennett (R-UT) 202-224-5444 202-228-1168 http://bennett.senate.gov/contact/email_opinion.cfm

Presented to the Senate by:
Hilary Clinton & CoSponsors
Sen. Barbara Boxer
Sen. Mark Dayton
Sen. John Kerry
Sen. Frank Lautenberg
Sen. Patrick Leahy
Sen. Barbara Mikulski

[autorank]

5. Lampley-Koehler-Vidal

What a dolt, sorry I'm not being kind; but who lets the "media" validate their view of reality. John Conyers doesn't count I guess nor Barbara Boxer.

This is vexing however because it shows how much we're hurt by lacking one prominent Democrat to stand up for us. Thanks for nothing guys/gals.

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

Contact the DNC and Give 'em Hell About NOT Acting on Election Fraud

[snot]

30. Ok; just sent this to the DNC.

Gentlemen & Ladies:

I have two issues of overriding urgency: (1) election reform (eliminate black box voting and any tabulation system in private hands or subject to electronic tampering); and (2) media reform (rollback of ownership consolidation and protection of outlets such as NPR that are free from private influence).

Without fair elections and truly independent media, we can't hope to achieve much else.

I am mystified and deeply concerned at the general timidity of Dem politicians during the last year and in particular by the eerie silence on these two critical issues. (Lately, the only pol with much spine seems to be John Conyers.)

Why can't the Dem pols object en masse, in a coordinated way, as the Repubs would if roles were reversed? Surely, if every single Dem were expressing outrage, they would have more impact.

I am committed to liberal humanism and have made several donations in support of Dem pols during the last two years. I hope that soon, Dem Pols (in addition to Rep. Conyers) will begin to act in such a way as to vindicate my belief that this party represents my values.

I have also opposed the Iraq war from the beginning and am also extremely concerned about the Bush admin's incursions on civil liberties of all kinds.

Thank you for your time.

[autorank]

38. snot, You're my kind of DU user (don't let it out or they will shun you)

Great letter:thumbsup:

[snot]

43. Thanks

sweetie.

I don't need shunning . . . anyone I wouldn't want to be shunned by?

[Helga Scow Stern]

68. Great letter! I have sent similar ones since the election.

Not as well written, of course.

[Patchuli]

55. We gave 'em hell via snail mail

because we damn well want a response! No wonder there are problems. Look how snooty they are!

Democratic National Committee
430 S. Capitol St. SE
Washington, DC 20003

Attention: Our DNC Leaders

Re: ELECTION FRAUD

Dear Leaders,

We would like to be informed as to what official and fast steps that you are taking to ensure that another election is not stolen by Republicans. You are constantly sending us questionnaires about what we want with requests for constant donations.

Well we would like to know what we are getting for our time, attention, work and donations to the Democratic National Committee. Why should I again walk precincts and phone bank for Democratic candidates? Why should I sign petitions and pass them on? Why should I convince my friends to vote Democratic? In other words, why should I do another thing for the DNC if the DNC is not going to fight for our rights to among other things, FAIR ELECTIONS? What is the point of our support of and membership in the Democratic Party?!

We demand that you do everything in your power to ensure that we will not be cheated in 2006 and tell us what you are doing. Your email instruction message is pretty condescending “All fields are required so that we might send a reply if circumstances warrant.” This is why we are writing to you via the United States mail so that you will take our message seriously. We most assuredly feel that the “circumstances warrant!”

If you want to keep your “base” then you need to make sure you are doing what your base wants. If the DNC cannot carry out the wishes of its party members, its members will leave the DNC.

CLEAN UP THE ELECTION PROCESS and start fighting back now, please!

Most sincerely,


Mr. and Mrs. DU'ers

[Helga Scow Stern]

6. That's unsettling, to say the least.

Is it that impossible for people to think for themselves anymore?

[Clark2008]

8. I understand it, actually.

He wants validation from a "trusted news source," not realizing that his "father's trusted news source," well, isn't, anymore.

It's like going out on your own for the first time.

[Time for change]

11. I think that the deterioration of the MSM is the next most important issue

after the stolen election.

I would suggest that you ask him to read "Through the Buzzsaw -- leading journalists expose the myth of a free press". But it doesn't sound like he would take the time to read it.

This reminds me of a local Democratic meeting I attended last fall. Great amount of discussion about getting out the vote and all sorts of other traditional means of succeeding in elections. I asked what consideration was being given to preventing election fraud. The person leading the meeting acted like he had never heard the term.

Even people with the best of intentions just don't want to see what's going on.

Great post!

[Amaryllis]

25. Koehler did raise the question: Can you have election reform without media

reform?

[Time for change]

44. Apparently not very well

It seems to me that the media's refusal to cover this issue is greatly hampering the ability to get meaningful election reform, since the Republicans in Congress feel no need to go along with it as long as the vast majority of the American public are unaware of the problem.

BTW, I replied to your request for a brief summary of Ron Baiman's assessment of the exit poll discrepancy controversy, in Doohickey's thread.

[Helga Scow Stern]

71. Through the Buzzsaw -- a good book that exposes what is happening

to journalists who tell the truth.

[lostnfound]

85. "Into the Buzzsaw" Great book. I tried to bring it up on Randi Rhodes

the other day but they blew me off.

[libertypirate]

12. Hey give them a reason they can buy....

Hit them in their pocket books, ask them if they think electronic voting is worth 20 times more then a piece of paper and a marker.

We talk all the time about government waste but we never get to confront it. These systems are way overkill and a bubble form would cost a fraction of the initial cost and the annual costs to update and maintain these systems.

Also we know these systems are capable of being defeated. If you want to talk about media awareness of the problems in this country I suggest whipping out my two favorites.

Man whore Whitehouse story to start Gannon\Guckert. Timeline, credential problems, naughty man whore marketing websites… I ask them how much of that have they have seen?

Then I like to show people something they don’t expect the articles about midnight tours of the call boy ring at the Whitehouse in 89. I want them to know this isn’t a new development of national news being suppressed and that it is wide spread.

Then just so I am sure that they get my point, I hand them the Downing Memo. Remember why the media told you Blaire had a bad day at the poles they lied this was public days before and they refused to report against this president. They lied about why Blaire had a bad day so they wouldn’t have to report this. They lied because they told you it was Iraq; which it was but what they forgot is that the intelligence was being fixed around a already present desire. How valuable is it to the president that you not know that?

[KnowerOfLogic]

13. Woodward and Bernstein would be fired before their story

ever got off the ground in today's media.

[KaliTracy]

16. what did he think about Boxer and Tubbs-Jones contesting the Ohio

electoral votes? Not in the news? -- Oh, it was "reported" that these and other congress people were disgruntled -- but NO reports I heard (NPR, or otherwise) mentioned the it was the PEOPLE who were innudating phone lines and faxes and emails trying to wake up people in the House and Senate.

send him to

http://thankyoupatriot.com/ surely these people who are part of the goverment and have fought for election rights and reform mean "something"?


PS. Directly after the election, when I realized how pissed I was, I sent a letter to about 7 or 8 Democrat BOE directors in a 60 mile radius from my house asking how we could change things for next time to make sure that we had equitable machine allocation and a fair election. ONE. One wrote me back (Hamilton County) -- and disagreed with me -- because his district didn't have any problems. That wasn't my point, I replied, my district didn't either -- but what happened in other parts of Ohio were beyond wrong -- how can we fix it so this never happens again?

No reply. I continued to send him things as I got more involved. But he's never directly written me again.

edit:wrong url

[calzone]

17. A view from within NPR

"There are hundreds if not thousands of reporters around the country who would love nothing more than to make their careers – Woodward Bernstein style -- exposing the Bush thievery of the last couple elections."

Well they soitenly ain't woiking for Newsweek. All wood/ber had was a mysterious deep throat, thankfully they were given the go ahead.
I think that NPR could ask harder and more probing questions on some shows like 'ATC' along with the personality-talk shows as well as 'weekend edition'. "On the media" is pretty good, as are some others IMO, however, a survey was recently conducted to determine if ppl thought that NPR was biased. The result was that listeners overwhelmingly felt that it was fair and balanced. That result was immediately deep-six-ed and another conducted, damn....same result, so this had to be released...but it was downplayed. Things are getting scary. But even tho' my salary depends on donations (wasn't always thataway), I hope that many listeners withhold financial support till the Tomlinson taint is washed away & disinfected.

[KaliTracy]

23. I've sent many emails to those talk shows, thinking they were

the best shot of getting something recognized, as well as to NPR and ATC -- I sent Tavis Smiley several letters too, and Diane Rheme, and Talk of the Nation.

The Best Result I got at "being heard" was on our local public radio station WMUB. They read letters on Friday -- Read a condensed version of mine that included a lot of links (it was about the recount that wasn't in Ohio), and they posted it on their website (and mentioned when they read it that it was posted there with links)

Now-- it's not like they get a lot of traffic -- I think one person posted to it -- but on the off-hand chance more people read it after hearing it during the month it was in the number one spot -- would make me happy.

http://www.wmub.org/feedback/2005/02/voting-in-ohio.html

[Amaryllis]

26. NPR can't ask harder questions with Tomlinson running the show.

[garybeck]

32. Every time I get a mailing from my local NPR station, I

send them a letter back with no payment, pointing out that they have not reported the most important issues like the problems with electronic voting. I send them fact sheets.

Last time I sent them an article from Democracy Now about the Republican takeover of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. I sent it to the news director. I wrote on the corner by hand, "What is happening???"

I have never received a reply to anything I've sent.

[autorank]

39. NPR - PBS -- DO NOT FEED THE BABY BEAST. The big one's bad enough

I agree gary

[snot]

40. I'm doing the same. But I'm concluding

it IS kind of like with Hitler . . . in the sense that, if everyone had stood up to them from day one, we'd all be better off now -- while, by trying to appease them, NPR/PBS just gave up ground to a beast that won't be satisfied with anything short of destroying them.

I.e., we're dealing with a bully, and the only thing the bully understands is, we don't take that shit and we callin' you out NOW.

[Tigress DEM]

82. The must be following the CNN formula - media should lie during wartime

for the good of the country.

http://www.newshounds.us/2005/05/24/reese_schonfeld_cofounder_of_cnn_says_the_public_does_not_have_a_right_to_know.php

Last week on May 16th, during an appearance on The Big Story with John Gibson CNN co-founder Reese Schonfeld made some very scary statements about the roles of the media and the Pentagon in time of war. The two men were discussing the Newsweek Koran story. Here's my transcript of part of that interview:

GIBSON: You're saying that editors should, and in fact, do make calculations about whether people are going to live or die because of the revelations they're about to make and that this was one in which editors should have foreseen just what happened.

SCHONFELD: Sure. What, what difference ... Absolutely. Everyone knows or should know, if they know anything about the Arab world or the Muslim world, how holy the bible is - their Koran - is to them and how inflammatory a statement that we had desecrated it, flushed it down the toilet or whatever would be in that world and someone should have said: Well, what real difference does it make if we report that or don't report that. And should never have reported it. But if you were even gonna consider reporting it, well, I don't, I don't even - I wouldn't even consider reporting it. I would have sat there in the chair and said "No, this doesn't go in the story." Period.

GIBSON: OK, but would you have - by that same reasoning would you have not reported Abu Ghraib if somebody had brought you those pictures.

SCHONFELD: Abu Ghraib is the greatest foul up of all time. Those pictures were on the internet. The problem is not that we were - we - I only wish the Pentagon could have been able to deny that story, to be able to li - that's the right of the Pentagon to lie, when it is in the country's best interest to lie, you do lie. And when I made that statement in my book, an undersecretary - well - at Defense told me I don't have it quite right, the - uh - Rumsfeld, the Secretary can never lie but any, anybody under him can, that you have to do it when it's in the public, in the government interest.

[spooked911]

18. This guy is clueless, that's all there is to it. He's the old guard and

I say: make way for the new guard.

Does he realize at all what has happened to the media since 9/11?

That's really what it is-- after 9/11, they just won't question the government-- they are too freaked out. Slowly, ever so slowly, they are getting their nerve back, but the media has given Bush eveyr benefit of the doubt-- all because of 9/11. And the sad fact is, there's good reason to think 9/11 was a set-up just for this sort of purpose. Certainly the anthrax attacks were meant to intimidate the media. The anthrax that just happened to come from US military labs.

[bobbieinok]

96. didn't question W in 2000....media was constantly Monica all the time

media went totally RW between 94 and 98

but they didn't give Clinton any honeymoon period

altho IMO Clinton started poorly

W started organizing 'his' adm when he started to run for the rep nomination

[spooked911]

98. Oh yeah, they were going right-wing for a while. But things got MUCH

worse with the media after 9/11. And I'm sure that was one reason they pulled it off-- to have more control over the media in a time of war.

[splat]

19. Truth v.Evidence

Look, the energy got pissed away early on.

There was a big deal about northern Florida "Democratic" counties that are redneck as hell. The party registration is a holdover from anti-Lincoln days, but they're all Bible belt. On paper that doesn't show, but anybody on the ground would know.

There were some hopeful signs about incarcerated kids programming voting software to change votes. It never yielded the goods to a tech reporter.

Maybe they just bet on this ignorance, a window of opportunity, and nobody with the goods got it to a reporter who could understand it and prove it. Maybe nobody involved would talk.

That's how it happens.

Our future hangs on the sophisticated difference between truth and evidence.

[garybeck]

33. there is a ton of evidence

look at Snohomish Cnty in WA. Look at Conyer's report. Look at the USCV report. I've had lawyers tell me that people have been convicted of murder of far less evidence than we already have. That thing in Florida about the registered dems voting for bush was nothing but a red herring. There's a mountain of evidence if you look for it.

[KaliTracy]

67. and regarding those dixicrats.... did anyone (group) do a Canvass in

those areas? I particiapted in a canvass in December in an Ohio county that had more Conally (Cleveland African America Liberal Woman runing for State Supreme Court) votes than Kerry votes. So we went house to house -- asking who they voted for Supreme Court Justice -- then asked about who they voted for President. Must realize this was "Bush" country. Of the people who would talk to me, only one smartass said he did vote for her and for Bush -- but he was smirking (knew some of what was going on) as he filled out the form. No one else split the ticket -- and of all the houses I went to, there were only two or three Kerry voters...

We did it in person (rather than on the phone) so we could get signatures (affidavit) -- if they agreed. Almost all of the people who talked to me didn't mind siging. Though I had people close the door saying it was "none of my business."

[Tigress DEM]

81. Problem is not lack of evidence, it's an "I don't see any" attitude.

Like little kids just close their eyes when something is too scary for them, pols close their eyes, hearts and minds to anything that could topple their career. DEMS acting like that make me nervous.

[Tigress DEM]

79. What about Volusa County's black bag of actual vote tapes?

Thrown out back and discovered by Bev Harris' group was coming by to get them to do a citizen's review.

The ones they were handed, copies without election judge signatures, that means they were ran after the fact, not even copies of the actual tapes the election judges saw that night.

And the ones thrown out were obviously heavy in Kerry votes.

Never heard that on the MSN.

[smartvoter]

20. How about posting his e-mail, and we'll send him articles, reports, etc.nt

[Amaryllis]

27. Good idea. Do what we did with Wycliff, who wrote the rebuttal to Koehler.

[garybeck]

34. He's already been through my website and the whole point is

that there's no links to mainstream media articles. If you have mainstream articles saying the election was stolen, by all means, let me know and I'll plaster them all over my website and tell him about them. They are few and far between, if existent at all.

[snot]

41. The guy needs the comfort of a crowd.

[Internut]

47. He does need the comfort of a crowd,

he needs the comfort of at least a few.

[smartvoter]

116. The trouble is "stolen" requires proof. But there are:

The Hitchins article, which comes close to saying it was stolen.
The Koehler article.
The blogs by Olbermann indicating all the problems.

This would be Vanity Fair, Tribune Media and MSNBC.

Has it been on the cover of the Post? No. And it won't if the Dems don't start pressing for answers.

[spooked911]

21. Does he understand how much the media changed after 9/11?

see my previous post in this thread for details.

[Amaryllis]

24. I was at a DFA thing a week ago and Jim Dean was there. I told him

that many of us have seen the segment Howard did on e-voting on Tina Brown, and the hack the tabulator demo with Bev, and told him that many of us thought Kerry won. I asked him what, if anything, they intended to do about the e-voting issue. He said they hear that everywhere they go, and they haven't yet decided whether to deal with it locally or nationally. He was somewhat evasive, but he clearly said that they are hearing that everywhere they go.

Maybe they don't know what to do. Since so many Dems are ignorant, in denial, or perhaps complicit, it makes it hard to call as far as strategy.

[garybeck]

37. DFA....

I have been toying with the idea of figuring out where these guys live and "accidently" bumping into them at the mall or something. We need to keep pressing them. It's good that they're hearing it but we can't let up. I hate it when these organizations get so big that we can't even talk to them. I'm in vermont and so are the Deans.... I wish I could talk to these guys and just find out why they're not dealing with this.

[Peace Patriot]

45. I'm with you, garybeck--I really, really, really want to know what's...

...going on with the folks in leadership roles in the Dem party.

You should ask this guy you were communicating with: Doesn't it puzzle him how Bush can have the lowest approval ratings in history--unprecedented, dismal approval ratings, 42% today, 49% on the DAY of his inauguration--stretching back over a year, with 60% to 70% of Americans disagreeing with every major Bush policy?

Election fraud explains WHY his approval ratings are so bad. He WASN'T elected!

AND...IF ONLY they would GROK what's really going on--a stolen election--they would begin to understand that they really, truly represent the MAJORITY of Americans, and would be coming at things from a much stronger strategic position.

But they deny themselves the very knowledge they need!

-----

The stuff that happened in Ohio, alone--it was frigging outrageous! How could they let that go by? And, Wally O'Dell & buds counting all our votes with secret, proprietary programming code. I mean, come on...

The Democrats failed us long before the election (by not loudly protesting a rigged election SYSTEM, and some of them getting corrupted by it, especially local election officials into the money and the tech glamor and "revolving door" jobs).

--------

But I didn't set out to rag on the Democrats tonight. Your post really hit an important point for me. What is going on with the people who think that "if isn't in the news, it's not real"--when many of them even KNOW they've been lied to again and again?

So, what IS going on with them?

Here's what I think: Corporate rule has greatly damaged our sense of community and family, and the Bush Cartel is using every wedge they can think of, to make it worse. We are a "divided and conquered" people. Our cohesion as a nation is in great peril. Given what the federal government has become, under Bush Cartel control, it no longer functions as our national identity. The 120,000,000 who voted against them--even by their own reckoning--are not citizens, in their view. They have no sense of governing from the middle, or of inclusiveness--just the opposite. They are governing at the far right, for the benefit of a very few, indeed.

So, where do those who are no longer citizens go for a sense of national identity--of belonging to our national community? They plug into the news monopolies--as if to an umbilical cord to the "nation." It is a delusion, but it comforts them.

Mass delusion.

It's very scary. (We might as well be living in "The Matrix"!).

But it IS understandable. Think of the traumas we've all faced starting in 2000--especially those of us on the left (the majority!). The highly suspicious 9/11 attacks. The unbelievable lies about Iraq and insane march to war. The slaughter of over 100,000 innocent people in our name. The horrendous financial costs that all citizens are bearing--huge jump in the cost of gas, bankrupting cost of medical care, and a massive federal debt. Massive thievery and mass murder being ignored. And all the bad guys are back--Negroponte, Bolton. All the things we rejected after Vietnam, nefarious CIA ops all over the world. We rejected all that as a nation--for instance, with the law Congress passed forbidding interference in Nicaragua (resulting the Iran-Contra scandal and its investigation). We stopped assassinating foreign leaders (as we'd done in Chile and elsewhere). We mostly stopped the death squads (--or their activities were taken over by corporations!). All that progress toward peace and justice undone! Everything that is good about our country being destroyed--including, now, all the New Deal and Great Society programs that created the prosperous and inclusive middle class of the '60s and '70s.

And this illusion they are spinning about the Christian right--trying to make it seem like far more than it is.

Very, very traumatic--all of this. And people can behave very oddly, and unpredictably, when they are this traumatized, suffering shock after shock.

What holds us all together? The news monopolies. Where do people get some sense of still being part of a "nation," still being in all this together? Certainly not from George Bush. They turn to the news monopolies because of FEELING, a NEED, for unity of some kind.

The news monopolies, of course, are run by billionaires for billionaires--just as the government is being run. The reporters and editors get their 'talking points' and their 'memes' from above (and increasingly from fascist propaganda mills)--some quite directly, others by means of nuance about how to keep their jobs, or how to be accepted by the powerful. The purpose of the handful of billionaires who now control most 'news" in the US is to get richer, to profit from war, to squeeze the last dime out of the war and oil economy, and to play billionaire power games. Their interest in journalism, and in truth, is nil. To control the US population, they have to feed them this fictitious (and truly farcical) "democracy" and crude replica of a national identity (along with consumerism and "entertainment").

So, anyway, election fraud disturbs this delusion--and those who are plugged into it, in this way (many), MUST reject it. It CAN'T be true, or else this delusional idea of our "nation" that they have become dependent on may be punctured.

garybeck, this fellow you were giving information to--he wasn't even trying to absorb facts or think rationally. What he was doing was trying to maintain the delusion within himself that he is part of this "nation"--this fictitious democracy--that the news monopolies create.

That's why it's so frustrating. The facts of election fraud are overwhelming--truly!--and you would expect someone like him to be interested. And his disinterest is INEXPLICABLE.

Just know this: You are one the brave, who have the courage, intelligence and patriotic spirit to challenge this national fiction that is deluding and disempowering so many others.

And be aware that you are dealing with psychological and emotional trauma. These are not normal times. People are really hurting, and it manifests in ways like this--what we have come to call "denial"--and in other bizarre behavior.

[Senator]

91. DFA is not "big" -- you should go for it

There are just 6 people employed in Burlington which constitutes the "national" staff of DFA.

I would imagine if you'd propose your desired discussion as a "free luncheon" you'd likely get all of them to join you for a couple of hours (everyone's gotta eat, right?).

As someone who's "been through this" indirectly with DFA in the aftermath of the election theft and runup to January 6th, I can tell you that DFA-affiliated people (acting on their own) were a big part of the Jan 6th effort.

It's my guess that "DFA leadership" is well aware that many of their membership/affiliates would be all for "doing more," and there may even be some regrets for not joining with Rev. Jackson, Rep. Conyers, Sen. Boxer, et. al when they "had the chance."

That said, I wouldn't be expecting too much of them. While it would be well worth your effort to have the conversation you seek, the simple truth is that DFA is no longer the trailblazing, make the beltway tremble, group it was as the Dean Campaign.

Their "take our party back -- take our country back" mission has evolved into a sequential, rather than concurrent, pursuit of those goals.

Bottom line is don't imagine them to be more than they are. They're just people. And you should have no trouble getting a meeting (as a representative of all of us in this forum) and making the case for action. Good Luck and report back.

---

[Helga Scow Stern]

70. Howard Dean said over a MoveOn conference call in March

that Republicans could no longer be trusted to count the vote and that the only way to change anything would be with ballot initiatives at the state level.

Aside from the fact that it is unlikely that voting will be able to change a corrupt electoral system, there seemed to be a sense of futility in his remarks. Conyers has expressed the same thing when he said something like that he realized that Republicans will not allow any kind of election reform that would actually solve the problem.

[Amaryllis]

95. WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP BEING CREATIVE AND THINKING OUTSIDE

the box. Sooner or later we will reach the tipping point. Koehler, Lampley, more people think the election was stolen than did in Nov...

[kster]

28. I don't think the

election fraud is going to get * I think "downing street memo"etc, etc, will but that will be from within the Government, Media doesn't matter there. Our determination on keeping the election theft afloat adds one more story that will make it easy for the Dem's to teach the Honest Republicans whats really going on. And I got to tell you if they impeach * from within, then straighten out the media,fix the voting b*llsh*t to our satisfaction,I don't really care if everyone else knows the facts about it. My job will be done here,except for hanging out with you guys talking about old e-voting war stories.

Thats just one of my theories.

[Amaryllis]

29. God, I like that thought, Kster...hanging out talking about old e-voting

stories...

[snot]

31. Sorry to say, similar experience here

The number one response I get from anyone I talk to about it is, why haven't I heard about it on the news. There's a suspicion that if the "respectable" media won't touch the story, there must be something wrong with it.

I've been skeptical toward the media for years now, yet even I remain somewhat shocked at the relative silence. But I have a few journalist friends, and even though they're among the (few) liberals at their outlets, they are not actually looking at the evidence.

[TexasLawyer]

36. My personal experience with media suppression of the truth

With regard to the Newsweek story, General Myers (head of the joint chiefs of staff), General Eichenberry (the highest US military official in Afghanistan) and Hamid Karzai (the freakin' president of Afghanistan), ALL said on the record that the rioting in Afghanistan was NOT connected to the Newsweek article. In fact, the rioting did not even relate to the Koran-- it was all about reunification issues!!!!

Kind of an important point, wouldn't you think? The foreign press was all over these statements that totally contradicted the party line. Yet article after article in my own Houston Chronicle and other US papers I was looking at continued to lambaste Newsweek for all the deaths that the Newsweek article supposedly caused.

I wrote LTTEs to the Chronicle and to 2 other major newspapers, I forwarded articles from the foreign press and from the state department website, where the Gen. Myers and Gen Eichenberry reports are posted. But NOTHING on this important information-- from these officials who were in the best position to know what the riots were all about-- ever got aired.

The American public needs to wake up. When our glorious leader wants things spun a certain way, then that's how it's spun. When the order goes out to media people on the RW payroll to pile on to a person or organization that displeases his majesty, they dutifully pile on.

I agree. The media IS killing us.

[snot]

42. I agree. On D. Rehm this a.m.,

lengthy discussion of whether Newsweek was right or wrong; no mention of the fact that the Newsweek note is not the ONLY reason folks are pissed off at us.

(And even though the commentators stated more than once that there are more impt. issues to be discussed re- Guantanamo, they completely omitted to state what those might be -- allowing the Bush agenda-setting machinary to prevail nonetheless, again! Honestly sometimes I feel i.q.'s been driven out of journalism.)

[oxbow]

63. Great Example!

the Newsweek scapegoating as a case study of Media disinformation in America. I love it! With Karzai and Meyers and the foreign news reports, you can't make a stronger case for how f*cked up our media machine is!!!

We have always been at war with Oceania

[TexasLawyer]

66. VOA just can't stop blaming Newsweek for EVERYTHING

Can't they find another scapegoat? This is getting old!

A few days ago, VOA had an article about the first lady being heckled on her Middle East tour because of-- yes, you guessed it-- the Newsweek article!

Protesters in Pakistan Target Actions Against Koran
By Benjamin Sand
Islamabad
27 May 2005



Pakistani protestors burn an American flag with pictures of Pakistan's President General Pervez Musharraf
Thousands of Pakistanis joined anti-American marches across the country Friday protesting alleged mistreatment of the Koran at the U.S. prison camp in Cuba.

At least 2,000 people shouted anti-American slogans in Islamabad while hundreds of police maintained order.

<snip>

The marches were organized by fundamentalist Islamic groups opposed to Pakistan's support for the U.S.-led war against terrorism. Abdul Rashid Gharzi says he joined the march in Islamabad to protest Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf. "We feel it is because of Pervez Musharraf, who is serving as an agent of the United Sates. He is, in fact, responsible for all the dishonor to our holy book as well as our country,” he added.

Earlier this month the U.S. magazine Newsweek reported an incident where a copy of the Koran was thrown in a toilet during an interrogation. However the magazine quickly retracted the story and a subsequent military investigation found no evidence supporting the specific allegation. Officials did confirm five other incidents where the Koran was "mishandled" at Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. State Department says any cases of religious abuse are contrary to U.S. policy.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-05-27-voa48.cfm

[Boredtodeath]

46. We hurt ourselves with the media

In 2 ways:

1. Publishing everything we find on the internet. Reporters want "exclusive" information which has not been previously published all over the internet. They don't want to re-tell a story that's already been told. They'll never report what is already published. If you don't understand that reporters work for that next pulitizer and not for the low wages, you'll never get the kind of coverage you are looking for.

2. Making unfounded claims which are later debunked. Take your unpublished story to a reporter, with rock solid paper backup and they'll tell your story. If you can't PROVE YOUR CASE, a reporter will never stick his neck out for your passion. They want proof - if you don't have it, keep working until you do.

Stop making unfounded allegations on the internet - research, research, and more research. But stop publishing every piece of your research before you've vetted it. Work quietly, work diligently, but work, work, work.

EVERY reporter on the planet wants the story that will give them the next pulitizer. They don't want a media hound who makes a lot of allegations which are later debunked and cost them their career.

[mopinko]

48. send him a link to the media bias hearing last week

there was some really powerful testimony.
editer and publisher piece
this would also be a good place for him to read up on what's happening in the business. lots of truth has been leaking out at this magazine.
btw, i have been watching the ltte in the chgo trib, waiting to see the reaction to their little arms length koehler piece. i have seen not one letter. i have been less than perfect about checking, but i have not seen one.

[the other one]

49. Nobody here but us conspiracy nuts.

I guess its easier to believe it when the media labels itself as too liberal, then to believe liberals when they say that they cannot get their ideas out on the airwaves.

Didn't the mainstream media declare AAR dead on arrival because liberals weren't interested in talking about issues? Farenheit 911 was successful because it presented news from a liberal perspective (if the mainstream news were liberal, then MM would not have found an audience for his work).

[BamaBecky]

51. Did you see what Keith Oberman said?

Here is what he said about a new book about the media:

"How lies are made into the truth, and truth made into lies; how the liars come to be perceived as victims and the truth-tellers, evil-doers. A cautionary story for those of all political stripes, to say nothing of journalists and those who consume information today, and Craig's nailed it." -- Keith Olbermann, Host of MSNBC's "Countdown"

the book:
What you will find in Attack The Messenger . . .

· Behind-the-scenes stories about reporters and politicians in conflict.

· An objective look at the ongoing debate over liberal and conservative bias in the news media.

· Thoughtful analysis on the rise of celebrity journalists.

· A critical view of the harmful effects of advocacy journalism on both the conservative and liberal fronts.

· An engaging story of the Internet's positive and negative impact on the reliable flow of information.

· A guide to the best sources of objective reporting.

· Prescriptions for how politicians and the media can do a better job serving the public.

TABLE OF CONTENTS
http://www.attackthemessenger.com/contents.html


:bounce: :applause: :woohoo:

[TexasLawyer]

65. That looks like a great book!

I like this introductory paragraph on the website home page. So, so true.


POLITICIANS AND THE MEDIA are natural enemies, but now it's all-out war. And the truth is hard to find. If the press is not believed - or believable - because politicians have turned the public against it, then the press is not free and under the thumbs of politicians. Without a free press, there is no democracy. ... that, says Craig Crawford, is where we find ourselves today.

[BamaBecky]

88. I'm going to buy it!....n/t

[deutsey]

52. You should point out how media are owned by a very small

corporate minority.

Here's a recent quote from Bill Moyers (is he mainstream enough?) that ought to give this guy pause. He's talking about the political pressure PBS encountered because of his show NOW:

"Strange things began to happen. Friends in Washington called to say that they had heard of muttered threats that the PBS reauthorization would be held off 'unless Moyers is dealt with.'"

Tell him to read the entire speech and ask him afterward does he think today's Woodwards and Bernsteins are free to probe and investigate those in power without repercussions:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0516-34.htm

I had a similar encounter with some local Dem bigwig over Iraq before we invaded. He didn't support the invasion, but he was uncomfortable with my anti-war activism.

Here are other links you might want to show this guy might regarding who owns the media. If he actually thinks the interests of those few who own most of our media don't affect what gets reported and how, then this guy has his head too far up his :kick: to see the truth.

http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/

http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml

http://www.thenation.com/special/bigten.html

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=7&issue_area_id=6

[Yankee Blue Veteran]

53. The nuclear option

:nuke:
I posted the following message on "Washington Post covers FBI report regarding Quaran mistreatment! (wow!)":

This article, just like those of the MainStream Media, carries within it the tacit conclusion that we have some kind of reasonable and rational person in the White House, and completely sidesteps the issue of that BIG RED BUTTON that controls the launch of nukes. We have a confirmed psychopathic omnisexual asshole in the White House surrounded at all times by 500 guards and extraneous sex toys. What makes anyone think that kind of creature wouldn't wipe out more than just 3,000 Americans the next time, while having a little kindergarten reading reprise of My Pet Goat? Fahrenheit 911 did NOT merely picture a 'Deer in the Headlights' at the time of the attacks; that image revealed the most disgusting visual account of a two-legged beast crossing its legs to hide the stain appearing on its zipper with its satisfied smirk while relishing the thought of the screams and blood pouring from unsuspecting Americans. If the MSM ever reported the truth, there WOULD be swift and fatal, and some form of nuclear, retribution. Since the MSM can gain nothing from exposing the truth, the only alternative is to try not to lose everything by publishing the lies. The bold and courageous media we once knew and respected has devolved into a cold and calculatingly cowardly corpocratic coffee klatch! And SO HAVE WE!

[EFerrari]

54. It might be useful to take this media debate out of the realm of assertion

and into the arena of fact.

I'd like to see a chart of media ownership for, say, the last six years. Who owned what in 1998, in 2000, in 2002, in 2004. And would like to see how big their audience was and how it changed during that period.

Because I suspect what we'd find is that the more right wing the media gets, the more their audience size drops off. And that's because we are the majority.

Who might have these numbers?

Because IF this is the case, at that point one could say, "If you trust the right wing media, you are in a dwindling minority."

[Tigress DEM]

87. good point

[specimenfred1984]

56. That Guy's a Whore, A Liar, A Coward

Ignore him. Ignore the DNC and DLC too. Media in America is taking a new direction with the internet. If that loser can't see it, too bad for him and too bad for them.

Propaganda is 100+ years old and very sophisticated in the U.S. now. The problem for the propaganda people is that they've over saturated the populace with lies which, have now become so transparent they and their propaganda is a complete laugh.

The way I deal with it is by telling every idiot who supports lies that they are a liar. It's very confrontational but they started it by trying to feed me a line of crap so they've got it coming.

Logic, facts, research, decency, debate, morals: all these are meaningless to paid off jerks and you'll be wasting your time attempting to appeal to any of those things when dealing with assholes.

Tell them and the world what they are, whores, liars and cowards.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. That's sad. Democratic Party here sure doesn't trust the news

Then again, when your major newspaper is the Arizona Republic that's pretty understandable.

[ElectroPrincess]

60. I agree and more people need to simply read a credible newspaper each day

If folks don't have oodles of time to read "the most credible" news stories over the net, the WP is still *usually* straight with the American people. The news sections that is, NOT the Editorial Pages.

It's been estimated that only 12% of the American people read a daily newspaper.

If we only could encourage people to stop worshiping FOX news and read a mainstream credible newspaper's FRONT section each day, we'd go far in revealing the truth.

[lfairban]

64. Do you think sending them this might help?

A Mountain Of Docs On Ohio's Stolen Election

Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman are both respected writers. Bob is the editor of the Free Press, a Columbus publication dating back about 35 years.

They have written a book:

Did George W. Bush Steal America's 2004 Election? Ohio's Essential Documents

[adolfo]

80. Try BBC Documentaries

The first step in educating someone about these issues is proving the US MSM is worse than a used car salesman selling lemons.

The BBC has done a few documentaries that the US MSM just won't cover. These are perfect examples of issues they ignore.

Some of the BBC stuff should help make your case. You can find their work on http://news.bbc.co.uk ,the bittorrent networks. or http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_iraqwar.htm.


To access bittorrent you will need a program like Shareaza (Shareaza.com) to find the files. Try different keywords like BBC, Blair, bush, election, or Palast for searching.

Here are a few gems that proves how far the Bush administration will go with their propaganda.

BBC Bush Election Expose - How the Republiklans Subverted Democracy.avi

BBC Documentary on the US Iraq War Hoax of Private Jessica Lynch Rescue (MORE PROOF - better than Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911).avi

The Power of Nightmares BBC Documentary VCD.mpg

BBC Panorama – Iraq, Tony & the truth (One of my favorites, mentions the Downing memo!!)

[myschkin]

83. Send

him the Maher-Show with Gore Vidal - and there he have his media...

You should talk with people who are serious about facts and can build their own opinion.

Just a news to give you a head up: The OSCE (the international watchers group of the election) are informed about the Conyers report and will meet him...

Ojai Person will make a post.

[Einsteinia]

84. There are alternatives

Yes, we've got a Catch-22 with the corporate monopoly on the media, but I've been thinking, what did people do before there even was a media. In Russia the revolution was taught to peasants by way of small theatre troupes. Also, comedians today, such as Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Molly Ivins, John Hightower, and even Paul Krugman seem to be the only ones getting an alternative voice out there.

Here's my solution: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/26/135634/881

[demgurl]

86. Why not use Chimp's own words against him?

Don't use our media or even the democrats in office who have stood up to the stolen elections. Why not ask the guy if he would believe it is * essentially said our elections were stolen?

* stated outright , in many 'reputable' newspapers, that the Ukraine election was stolen. Why did * say it was stolen? The reason was that the poll numbers were so far off in that election that there could be no other logical explanation than they were stolen!!! Well, if you compare Ukraine polls versus the actual numbers and then you compare ours, ours are more off than the Ukraine numbers were!

In other words, if * said that the Ukraine had to be fixed because of their numbers and he called on the people of that country to make things right, the same must apply here.

If nothing else, put aside the election fraud subject and just say that paper trials are a must. There is only one reason I can think of that someone would not want paper trails, how about you?

[kster]

105. Great idea, lets

get the video,and or some links on that.

[Pharaoh]

89. send Him a copy of Orwell rolls in his grave

if that don't wake him up he must be dead.....

[hvn_nbr_2]

90. Reporters, management, permission

There are hundreds if not thousands of reporters around the country who would love nothing more than to make their careers – Woodward Bernstein style -- exposing the Bush theivery of the last couple elections.

He's probably right about that. But it absolutely, positively doesn't matter. Reporters are employees. They do what they're told to do, and they don't do what they're told not to do. Otherwise, they get fired. Woodward and Bernstein had permission from Ben Bradlee and Katherine Graham to investigate and report on Watergate. News management today won't grant permission, air time, or column inches for election fraud investigation or anything else that the corporate newsaganda establishment doesn't want.

I have a new sig line today, but this thread makes me think I should change it already to add, "But my party doesn't care."

[Amaryllis]

94. Not only do they not give permission, but they dis them if they do take it

on (Wycliff/Koehler)

[Donailin]

92. Christopher Hitchens wrote

that he believed the numbers simply don't add up in Ohio in February's Vanity Fair

[Amaryllis]

93. I've been thinking. The Downing memo is getting no press in MSM, just like

election issues haven't/don't. Conyers sent out this letter
http://www.johnconyers.campaignoffice.com/index.asp?Type=SUPERFORMS&SEC=%7B0F1B03E0-080B-4100-B143-36A5985EF1E3
"Along with 88 of my colleagues, I wrote to the President requesting answers about this grave matter. Thus far, our search for the truth has been stonewalled and I need your help. I believe the American people deserve answers about this matter and should demand directly that the President tell the truth about the memo. To that end, I am asking you to sign on to a letter to the President requesting he answer the questions posed to him by 89 Members of Congress.

I will personally insure that this letter is delivered to the White House."

Now, what would happen if Conyers and those 88 other congresspeople hand delivered that letter to the White House, and parked themselves there, and refused to move, until they got an answer? I have a hard time imagining them having the cajones to actually do it, but it's an intriguing idea. Do you think THAT would get media coverage?

[bobbieinok]

97. no....they didn't cover antiwar protests, 1 mil + women marching for

reproductive rights

very little coverage of Boxer and representatives on Jan 6

[Amaryllis]

101. but 88 congress people camped out in the White House? you can't compare

that to an anti-war protest.

[deacon2]

102. I would tell him Karl Rove is counting on his point of view n/t

[Carolab]

104. So, DOES HE THINK GANNON IS THE MEDIA?

OR THE PAID SHILLS WHO DID THE NCLB AND MEDICARE COMMERCIALS?

DOES HE KNOW ABOUT THEM?

[rucky]

106. time to bury this guy in source material

and slam a mountain of documents and transcripts on his desk for dramatic effect.

[pauldp]

109. Tell him the Downing Street Memo is the Double Smoking Gun.

It confirms without question that BushCo lied to the World and the Media is complicit.

Ask him how could the MSM ignore this story if they had anything close to journalistic integrity?

[KerryReallyWon]

114. Media on Gannon? Look at Iowa just last Wednesday on TV 7

May 25, 2005
New Leads In The Johnny Gosch Case

A cold case is heating up. Iowa paperboy Johnny Gosch vanished without a trace in 1982. But, now, after KWWL's story last month on Johnny's disappearance, there is new information on the case.

A private investigator working Johnny's disappearance believe his kidnapping was part of a government conspiracy. The investigator shared new evidence with KWWL and it could be the break needed to solve this case. That evidence includes a recorded phone call that has never been heard publicly, until now.

During the early morning of Septmeber 5, 1982, Johnny Gosch was kidnapped from a West Des Moines neighborhood while delivering newspapers. It was silent, quick and professional. "This man has told us that at the end of their investigation that there were 834 kids involved that were kidnapped," says James Rothstein. He's talking about a former CIA agent who must remain anonymous.

Rothstein is a former New York City police detective, now a private investigator working the case for Johnny's mother, Noreen. And within the last couple weeks, Rothstein has uncovered new evidence linking Johnny's kidnapping to child prostitution. "It basically came down to one thing and one thing only. You know, it was money. These kids were being grabbed to satisfy the malignant, twisted, you know, evil depravity of very powerful individuals who have the money," he says.

Rothstein is talking about individuals who would spend as much as $10,000 to have sex with young boys and girls. And this new evidence points to the involvement of U.S. government officials. "They were using kids to compromise people. And what better way to compromise somebody than get a young boy with a politician or some powerful person that may be in the military or whatever and then you can compromise them and get what ever you want."

Last month, people on the internet and investigators like Rothstein began to believe a man who passed himself off as a White House reporter and known male prostitute Jeff Gannon could be Johnny Gosch. And while Gannon's true idenity still can't be confirmed, Rothstein says the more clues he uncovers, the possibility Gannon may be Gosch increases, "When you look into the whole abduction of Johnny, what happened, the cover-up that took place, the way the kidnapping was done, this was a professional job and it fits the profile that I have seen over the years as a professional investigator."

Rothstein now believes the CIA was involved and tried cover it up. "They were assigned to find out if there was an agency connection to it and I am quite sure that if they found one, to make sure it was covered," he says.

And Rothstein's CIA informant says this: "We were specifically ordered to clear our name. This would make the American agency look pretty s****y, like we're all a bunch of f***ing child molesters."

We requested information from the CIA on three kidnappings, Rothstein and his CIA informant believes to be connected. The first, Johnny Gosch, the second, Eugene Martin, kidnapped on August 12th, 1984 while delivering newspapers in Des Moines.

And, Jacob Wetterling, who was kidnapped from his Minnesota neighborhood on October 22, 1989. The CIA responded to our request with this letter, denying the agency investigated any of the kidnapping cases. But, Rothstein's source says, it happened often and for big bucks, "You could order one of these kids, it was $2,500 to $3,000 up front then you had the balance of another $3,000 to $3,500 or $4,000 upon completion. In some cases, you know depending on the circumstances you can probably get them at the bargain basement price of $1,500, but most I think that we ever saw was for the bondage and the freaky s**t and that was an even $10,000 and people...these people would hand that money out like it was candy."

That's what it cost to hire a kidnapper to steal a child like Johnny off the street. And with new details like this coming to light, catching Johnny's kidnappers might actually happen. "Any police agency that would get involved in this case to this date can solve that case. The case is more solvable now, than it has even been. And that case should have been solved hours after it happened. The witnesses are out there. You yourself have found some," Rothstein says.

Those witnesses include a Black Hawk County woman who wishes to remain anonymous. She sent Rothstein this packet of information. "Johnny Gosch is mentioned in it involving something that was going on years ago in the Waterloo, Iowa area," Rothstein says.

And while Rothstein hasn't determined the significance of the possible Waterloo connection, he says it's just as important as the phone conversation he had with a CIA agent. "That's solid information with names. That's where you start investigating and that should have been done years ago," he says.

And because it wasn't, Rothstein continues to make phone calls, and work leads, hoping his next big break is the one that solves the mystery behind the disapperance of Johnny Gosch.

For the past month, Rothstein has been tracking the activities of two suspects he believes could be responsible for kidnapping Johnny Gosch. We couldn't name them in our report because it hurt the investigation. We agreed to keep their identities secret so we could tell you this story.
:nuke:

[kster]

115. kick.nt