Kerry is a Selfish Fool. Recounts Need to be Done for Democracy

[BayStateBoy]

not necessarily for John Kerry's political advancement.

think Kerry is a fool not to request recounts in OH and particularly FL irrespective of whether his so called advisors think the votes are there. What there is out there is probably fraud and lots of it, and for him to ignore it is unconscionable.

1. Kerry promised that all the votes would be counted. 55 million Americans subscribed to that. He needs to fulfill his promise. I'm hearing nothing but severe criticisms of him here in Mass by people who voted for him. They won't forget or forgive. Kerry is really a Flip Flopper.

2. There is a fine line between a quitter and a troublemaker. Kerry may not want to "make waves" thinking about 2008. But as far as I'm concerned, if he doesn't want to investigate these reports of possible fraud, then he's political roadkill. The soul of Democracy is the truth, and Kerry has to honor that before his own personal political agenda.

3. If we don't investigate, there is little if any hope that we will be able to mount a turnout like we just did. People stood in line for 10 hours to vote and we are willing to let their votes be thrown in the trash. Next time we need those voters they will stay home, so we are slitting out own political throats by not getting recounts.

4. If we don't demand recounts, the perpetrators will take it as an open invitation to commit the same frauds in 2006 and 2008. Kerry and the DNC are delusional. By not acting and fighting we are guaranteeing that all the setups will be in place for our future defeats and it will be a no win situation. We have to take a stand and fight now or else...

5. Elaborating on #4, recounts would serve to focus the national spotlight on the evils and unreliability of electronic voting. The measures in Congress to mandate a paper trail have been languishing for over 18 months. We have a small window of opportunity to act; if we don't we'll never get the electronic genie back into the bottle.

6. The history of voting in America is the history of vote recounts
and rigged elections. Besides it's our Christian duty to recount the votes to insure that no crimes have been committed and the will of the people is being expressed accurately. The worst the Repugs could do is accuse us of being sore losers and we could take that charge and ram it back down their throats.

7. Even if the votes are recounted and the final results don't change we won't be hurt for trying. There is no evidence that fighting in FL in 2000 cost us any votes and it won't now. We have more votes to lose by not fighting and everything from a strategic political aspect.

[Chimpanzee]

1. Someone needs to tell him if he abandons us in favor of

running again in 2008, he might as well kiss his 'presidential' future goodbye. He will never get out of the primaries. I certainly won't vote for him again unless he 'has our back' like he promised.

[jmatthan]

2. Sideline Kerry - Bev Harris says

5 Ohioans can call for recount.

Joint Press Conference later today with Bev Harris and Ralph Nader being announced on Air America just now!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[cthrumatrix]

13. the goal is NO MORE "not verifiable" computer voting...period.

[VivaKerry]

3. I love the man, but:

Did he get the drift in studying our founding fathers that there is a time to be a gentleman and there are times to take the gloves off. I just sense that his main priority is to come off looking like a good sport and a gentleman. I don't think that's what millions of americans had in mind as they devoted this last year to helping him rise to his highest ambitions!!

Take the gloves off, John!

[htuttle]

4. I agree completely

His actions since the election have been shortsighted at best. I think he's actually blown his political career beyond the Senate in attempting to 'save' it by saving face.

[EST]

20. Is John actually doing what it appears that he is doing?

If pres. elect Kerry is actually pulling down the campaign and rolling over in order to preserve his political future and some supposed "better for America" crap, then he will get neither. A competent general does not fold and turn into a general milquetoast: he reorganizes and attacks on a new level and in a new direction.

That sort of behavior goes so totally against the "turn into the enemy" and all the other sound leadership philosophy/principles we have learned about and from John Kerry that I just cannot accept the notion that this is what's going on. All the messages and promises we gave to our friends and fellow patriots in the course of conducting this grinding campaign over the past year absolutely contradict any such capitulation. We continually convinced ourselves and anyone else who would listen that we had picked the most electable, the most principled, the most capable, leader for handling our nation's delicate strategies for navigating the perilous present and hazardous future and pointed out, oh so carefully, the folly of preserving the current administration and its arrogant, pernicious handling of domestic and foreign policy as well as its misguided co-opting by the corrupt and extremist religious right.

There is no option of cooperation with the forces seeking the further disappearance of democracy and a constitutionally limited republic beneath the waves of overwhelming fascism, creeping racism, and mendacious opportunism as embraced by the rogue cabal now holding the reins of governance. Ignorant, arrogant bullying and thumb-fingered manipulation are not the guiding principles we should be, nor can be, allowing ourselves to even tacitly support.

If the situation is really as it appears, then, by extension, all the horrid, small-minded, simplistic slurs heaped upon our chosen representative by those dip shits are essentially correct and we have allowed ourselves to be the "hoist on our own petard" monkeys. I shudder to even contemplate such an eventuality. If not, then our leadership must be even now turning into the attack. Why do I feel like such a point man with no follow-up squad? Leadership must begin leading, NOW!

[howardc]

5. Recounts and Religion

First, you need to finish the "count" before you have a "recount." The count in New Mexico won't be finished until Nov. 12, and I don't think Ohio has finished counting absentees and provisionals yet, have they? Nowhere in the Consitution does it state that once a candidate concedes the election is over. It's not over yet. It's over when all the votes are counted, when court challenges are decided, and when the electors vote (know any you can influence?)

As to "it's our Christian duty to recount the votes" maybe I'm on the wrong thread (this is my first post). I find your statement distasteful. It's our American duty to recount votes as we see fit, whether we are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, agnostic or atheist. Am I really on a progressive forum, or did I type in the wrong URL?

[Chimpanzee]

6. Well, it certainly is our American duty first, but I have no problem

with someone also believing it's their Christian duty if they are 'a believer'. I am agnostic, but as a liberal progessive, I't doesn't bother me if someone wants to see things in terms of their religion unless it affects me in a negative way.

[BayStateBoy]

8. Tongue in Cheek: Trying to Take the Wind out of the Fundie's Sails

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RevCheesehead]

10. mmm...and you've been here speading sunshine for 3 weeks.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RevCheesehead]

12. are you capable of making ANY statement without name-calling?

As to your claim of being a "20-year Kerry supporter," why do you use terms like "selfish fool...flip-flopper...political road-kill...delusional"? Those don't sound like a supporter to me.

[mary195149]

15. Kerry hasn't quit, on us,

He is just playing on the offense. Give him a chance to shine through.

[DARE to HOPE]

18. I agree with Mary

Did you see the few minutes of Kerry with the press yesterday? He is behaving as a President-elect IMO--and his brother's office has confirmed that the lawyers have been working to pin things down in Ohio. We'll see what happens after Nader's press conference today at 1 pm ET.

[txindy]

16. Rev. Cheesehead

:yourock:

[RevCheesehead]

17. Thank you......it's my first "de-freeping"

[pleiku52cab]

14. John looking to 2008

Dear John - you promised to have our backs, then folded. We don't even want to see your FACE next time

[Straight Shooter]

19. Dear God, please strike with jelly lightning these Kerry bashers

You know, Lord, not enough to actually harm them, but just enough that they will stop posting, oh, I don't know, 20 threads a day saying basically the same thing.

I thank you, Lord. John Kerry thanks you. And many here on DU thank you.

God bless you, Lord, and have a nice day.

[eataTREE]

21. A-men, brother.

It sure seems to me like plenty of folks, both here and on other sites, have spent the time since election day floating down a big river. You know de one: De-Nial.

I want a recount of Ohio and Florida. However, I think the odds of a recount showing a Kerry win in either of those states are roughly equal to the odds of Michael Moore winning an Academy Award for Best Picture. Yes, I think there was fraud and shennanigans -- but not enough to account for a Bush margin of 130,000 in Ohio and 3.5 million nationwide.

I have yet to hear one compelling bit of evidence that there was large-scale electoral fraud. The fact that the election results don't match some statistical model doesn't impress me at all. (Hint: When reality doesn't match theory, the problem is probably with the theory, not reality.) The fact that large numbers of registered Democrats apparently voted Republican doesn't impress me either: they've been doing that for years. It looks like the real reason people think the election was stolen is that the wrong guy won. The voters couldn't possibly be stupid enough to elect George Bush, could they? (Second hint: Ronnie "I Don't Recall" Raygun was re-elected in a landslide.)

We are not going to start figuring out how to win the next election until we admit that we lost this one.